(Topic ID: 181850)

MMR Versus the Original


By whthrs166

3 years ago



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  • 46 posts
  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Pinrookie
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#1 3 years ago

I have had my original MM now for just over a year. With the next W/B remake ready to be released im wondering how the MMR compares to the original. I have played my friends MMR and it is a nice game. Same game play but the feel was different. My original machine has the shaker kit, color DMD, Prosound, gold body armor, LED lighting, Invisiglass, Laser Topper and a ton of mods. Its a heavy hitter that shakes the house. It has a nice solid feel too. What do you guys that have played or owned both think?

#2 3 years ago

It sounds like your original MM is so modded it is very different from an original MM! For me, my MMR feels pretty similar to an original gameplay-wise, but I never stacked up many hours on original MM due to its popularity and rarity at shows. Indeed, that was part of my rationale for buying an MMR in the first place!

#3 3 years ago

Yeah I figured it might not be comparing apples with apples so to speak so I was hoping toget a more fair comparison.

#4 3 years ago

With the remake you get an emulated copy of the original's software and with the original you get incandescent lighting that you can leave as is or update as you chose. You are stuck with LEDs on the remake.

#5 3 years ago

But do they play simular. What im hearing is they do not by people you have had both.

#6 3 years ago

I perfer original and is why i spent extra to get one this week...

#7 3 years ago

You'll never get a consensus on this one. Best bet is to play one and decide for yourself.

#8 3 years ago

I'm wondering if the mmr feels like a newer stern? I'm borrowing a buddies mmr and the pops and slings feel like a star trek pro I had. If the Williams feels like an older Williams I would pay more for an og.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

I'm wondering if the mmr feels like a newer stern?

Stern assembled it. Not Stern parts, playfield or cabinet.

LTG : )

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

I'm wondering if the mmr feels like a newer stern? I'm borrowing a buddies mmr and the pops and slings feel like a star trek pro I had. If the Williams feels like an older Williams I would pay more for an og.

Im guessing bc it uses different boards to provide the power and code. The few i played felt slightly different also but no pin is the same . I have nothing against the mmr but i just perfer original for many reasons but im just glad they were remade so more people can enjoy such a great pin.

#11 3 years ago

I've played MMR a few times at shows and I don't notice a significant difference between it and any of the MM's I play on location. Disclaimer: I primarily play on location, so I understand and expect that every machine is going to play a little bit different. No two MMs that I regularly play are identical in feel & performance.

To me, it plays like I would expect a NIB MM might play: everything is fast and snappy.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

But do they play simular. What im hearing is they do not by people you have had both.

They play same. It doesn't "feel like a Stern" -- it feels solid and you won't mistake the flippers for a Sopranos or whatever.

I am not sure how anyone can even claim it plays differently, considering every MM on earth now is running on either reproduction parts or 20 year old parts.

Obviously some people prefer original for historical or abstract reasons, and that's fine. But in terms of gameplay, there's no objective difference.

#13 3 years ago

The remake I played seemed the software was off. Besides not having the Williams label, poor resignation on the inserts, funky sound and lighting, and that, I could hardly tell them apart.

The original was primitive in it's own way. I enjoyed it most the first time I played it.

#14 3 years ago

From a gameplay perspective there is very little difference.

From an aesthetic perspective there is a great deal of difference.

Most players would say who cares about aesthetics, but we are talking about a machine that over the last 20 years has transcended simply having a metal ball rolling around on a piece of cleared wood.

It is now more a collector's piece than anything else and in this regard the MMr just does not stack up against an original, in my view.

In Australia we would call the MMr a Clayton's version based on a commercial that was made promoting a non-alcoholic beverage which on outward appearances had all the basic ingredients but was lacking the unique ingredient which would have made it indistinguishable from the original alcohol based version.

#15 3 years ago

MMR brand new, original 20 years old with thousands of plays, of course they will play and feel different. I have an MMR and love it, plays fantastic and does not feel like a stern game. I never had the pleasure of playing a nib BW, so it's hard go compare.

#16 3 years ago

The remakes I've played so far (3 or 4 of them) have all played decent and well enough to be worthy of consideration, especially if you like this title and can't find an original. But if you're a true collector, or die hard, or aficionado, you're gonna want the original. I'll always prefer the original. If you can't feel the difference, chances are you don't notice driving with a flat tire either. The original Williams feels way more solid in my opinion, and it's a timeless classic that deserves preservation. The remake feels like something Stern slapped together in their free time. It doesn't feel terrible, but you can definitely tell it's not as heavy or solid feeling. Again, not trying to take away from the remake, but it is what it is...

#17 3 years ago

Obviously Stern sucks when people say they "don't feel like a Stern" in a positive way lol. I don't intend to own one, prefer the feel of a Bally/Wms.

#18 3 years ago

I know some of you will not agree with me on this but I am very thankful for the remakes. First and formost for me the mere fact that I would not have even had a chance to afford an original MM if not for the remake bringing down the prices in the market. However I don't think the same situation will be there for me with the next one (Attack From Mars). I have never owned one of those because the prices just sky rocketed before I had a chance to buy one. I did have a chance to pick up a player with a wiped out play field once for 5k but I passed because there were no new PFs at that time.

#19 3 years ago

They're close enough and probably 3-4 threads on this if you go back a year or two.

#20 3 years ago

When people say "feels like a Stern" in this thread, I think they generally mean: "weighs less than those heavy Bally/Williams games". To be honest, it does make you think that it's cheaply made when you can push the game around. That's why they literally put functionless weights into fancy headphones these days - to create an added illusion of quality.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

When people say "feels like a Stern" in this thread, I think they generally mean: "weighs less than those heavy Bally/Williams games". To be honest, it does make you think that it's cheaply made when you can push the game around. That's why they literally put functionless weights into fancy headphones these days - to create an added illusion of quality.

You are right, when I think of quality I think of i big heavy transformers that provide the needed voltage for outdated plasma displays. I think of late 70's technology that is getting harder and harder to find parts for. I think of hundreds of little incandescent bulbs that are a pain to change out.

Both games play exactly the same. One has leds and comes with an lcd standard. The other typically has an aftermarket lcd and leds. Oh baby, let's beat this horse some more!

#22 3 years ago

with a quick search looks like original is 355lbs and remake 287lbs. i played 4 remakes and they all played different from each other. Ones at shows have the flippers turned way down. id take a remake over a original because of the dated technology in the original and i like new things. i also dont like the stainless steel trim on the originals(or on any game) compared to the remakes black armor available.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

i also dont like the stainless steel trim on the originals(or on any game)

That's a whole lotta pinball you don't like!!

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

That's a whole lotta pinball you don't like!!

nothing powder coating cant fix. stainless just feels dirty and i sweat so much during good games my hands slip off sometimes at the worst moments

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from pinsanity:

From a gameplay perspective there is very little difference.
From an aesthetic perspective there is a great deal of difference.
Most players would say who cares about aesthetics, but we are talking about a machine that over the last 20 years has transcended simply having a metal ball rolling around on a piece of cleared wood.
It is now more a collector's piece than anything else and in this regard the MMr just does not stack up against an original, in my view.
In Australia we would call the MMr a Clayton's version based on a commercial that was made promoting a non-alcoholic beverage which on outward appearances had all the basic ingredients but was lacking the unique ingredient which would have made it indistinguishable from the original alcohol based version.

Only you call it that, someone who doesn't even own a MM, over 100 Australian customers will object to your comment as well

#26 3 years ago

It depends on the individual MMr...I played some at Expo a couple years ago and they played just as good as my MM, but then I played a couple of individuals MMr's and they didn't play well at all. The difference was that the flippers were not strong enough on them! People are so afraid of breaking something by having flippers turned up properly that it plays like crap. In this respect, my MM plays A LOT better! Hell, even different MM's can play differently....I've also played some MM's that played like crap, just because of the way they were set up. All depends I guess is what I'm saying. Properly set up MM and MMr will play the same.....but that's not always the case. I've been told many times that mine is one of the best playing MM's and I tend to agree. If you ever want to play it, just come to one of the shows and it will be there! LAX, Ohio, Expo...I bring it to all those. I do like the new animation on the MMr better than the original though.

Brian

#27 3 years ago

I've played both restored MM & MMr and can say they don't feel the same but since no two pins feel the same this is not really saying much. I was surprised at how well MMr played though and if you want to just play MM and don't care about the collector factor, you will enjoy MMr - it's a legit copy IMO - as good as you could imagine any copy to be. As for weight, lighter is better for moving and if you want to 'copy' the weight, I suggest you buy some weights and secure inside the cabinet.

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Only you call it that, someone who doesn't even own a MM, over 100 Australian customers will object to your comment as well

I'm not sure which part of his statement you object to but there is no doubt that some of the inserts in the MMR are different than those used on the original. I don't know why they changed them but they are different, and I'm not just talking about the games with the hard to read printing. It doesn't really affect gameplay but I can spot an MMR from across the room just by looking at the PF (if it's on).

#29 3 years ago

I've had my original MM since the mid 2000's, and at first I was very skeptical about the remakes, but a couple of friends of mine have them and are very happy with them. All things considered, I would always prefer the original, but the MMR's hold there own and have given a lot of people a chance to own a great game they never would have been able to.

-1
#30 3 years ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

with a quick search looks like original is 355lbs and remake 287lbs.

no, this is very wrong

-1
#31 3 years ago
Quoted from conester:

It depends on the individual MMr...I played some at Expo a couple years ago and they played just as good as my MM, but then I played a couple of individuals MMr's and they didn't play well at all. The difference was that the flippers were not strong enough on them! People are so afraid of breaking something by having flippers turned up properly that it plays like crap. In this respect, my MM plays A LOT better! Hell, even different MM's can play differently....I've also played some MM's that played like crap, just because of the way they were set up. All depends I guess is what I'm saying. Properly set up MM and MMr will play the same.....but that's not always the case. I've been told many times that mine is one of the best playing MM's and I tend to agree. If you ever want to play it, just come to one of the shows and it will be there! LAX, Ohio, Expo...I bring it to all those. I do like the new animation on the MMr better than the original though.
Brian

the very fact the flipper power is adjustable says its not right. They know from the 20 year old model what strength is needed. There is no reason to be able to adjust the power.

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from Quarterwaster:

the very fact the flipper power is adjustable says its not right. They know from the 20 year old model what strength is needed. There is no reason to be able to adjust the power.

That is just called technology my friend.You can adjust power on everything on a JJP.
Can you adjust everything on an Mmr or just the flipper power?

-1
#33 3 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Only you call it that, someone who doesn't even own a MM, over 100 Australian customers will object to your comment as well

Most Australian customers don't have the benefit of being able to view/play an original MM that has been fine tuned correctly with which to make a comparison though like I do.

Even with a cursory examination it is obvious that aesthetically the MMr was manufactured with the profit margin at the forefront.

In any case, here is one of the original MM machines currently in my collection.

100_0483 - Copy (resized).jpg

#34 3 years ago

I have a MMR and want to know where the setting is for flipper strength? I went through every setting and could not find it.
I owned a original before my MMR and they play close.

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from pinsanity:

Even with a cursory examination it is obvious that aesthetically the MMr was manufactured with the profit margin at the forefront.

#36 3 years ago
Quoted from tatman9999:

I have a MMR and want to know where the setting is for flipper strength? I went through every setting and could not find it.

Game turned on. Open coin door. Hold escape button down for five seconds or more. This gets you into the CGC menu. It is in there. Every time you press the escape button, gets you to the next CGC screen/choices.

LTG : )

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Game turned on. Open coin door. Hold escape button down for five seconds or more. This gets you into the CGC menu. It is in there. Every time you press the escape button, gets you to the next CGC screen/choices.
» YouTube video
LTG : )

thanks

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from pinsanity:

Most Australian customers don't have the benefit of being able to view/play an original MM that has been fine tuned correctly with which to make a comparison though like I do.
Even with a cursory examination it is obvious that aesthetically the MMr was manufactured with the profit margin at the forefront.
In any case, here is one of the original MM machines currently in my collection.

Fine tuned my arse, nice container pin

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

nice container pin

Thanks, since 99% of machines that are imported to Australia arrive via container I could see it was in already outstanding original condition when I hand picked it whilst overseas.

I particularly like the aftermarket genuine gold plated wireforms I had redone.

It's going the extra mile on things like that rather than cutting corners to save a few extra dollars on the BOM which makes all the difference on a machine that is as deserving of first class treatment and quality as a Williams branded MM.

100_0215 (resized).jpg

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from pinsanity:

Thanks, since 99% of machines that are imported to Australia arrive via container I could see it was in already outstanding original condition when I hand picked it whilst overseas.
I particularly like the aftermarket genuine gold plated wireforms I had redone.
It's going the extra mile on things like that rather than cutting corners to save a few extra dollars on the BOM which makes all the difference on a machine that is as deserving of first class treatment and quality as a Williams branded MM.

We don't do aftermarket nor do we do gold plated, as long as you are happy with your purchase that's fine, doesn't make it better than an mmr

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

We don't do aftermarket nor do we do gold plated, as long as you are happy with your purchase that's fine, doesn't make it better than an mmr

All good, anyone who contributes to facilitating pinball back into the mainstream in Australia and beyond the sphere of the limited self interest cliques is doing a positive service for the hobby.

#42 3 years ago

I never have a chance to play MMR or HEP MM but I played a few well maintained MM. Those well maintained MM played great as well. I just wondering what's the difference between those three. In theory the HEP MM should play the best. Am I correct?

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinrookie:

I never have a chance to play MMR or HEP MM but I played a few well maintained MM. Those well maintained MM played great as well. I just wondering what's the difference between those three. In theory the HEP MM should play the best. Am I correct?

In theory every pinball machine is a unique beast. Assuming each game has new or rebuilt flippers, the same play field pitch, and the same level of waxing/clean, they'll all be pretty similar.

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinrookie:

I never have a chance to play MMR or HEP MM but I played a few well maintained MM. Those well maintained MM played great as well. I just wondering what's the difference between those three. In theory the HEP MM should play the best. Am I correct?

eh, as long as the flippers are strong and everything on the game is clean and working, it's more a matter of tiny tweaks to get a game playing well, and "best" would be a subjective term. personally, i feel like games tend to flow more smoothly after they've been broken in a bit. i wouldn't necessarily assume a HEP game plays better than a very well maintained game.

#45 3 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

eh, as long as the flippers are strong and everything on the game is clean and working, it's more a matter of tiny tweaks to get a game playing well, and "best" would be a subjective term. personally, i feel like games tend to flow more smoothly after they've been broken in a bit. i wouldn't necessarily assume a HEP game plays better than a very well maintained game.

Agreed i got a restored mm fri and was very disappointed with the way it played. I spent all weekend makeing little tweaks . Id play fee games then tweak something the play again and do the same. Now 3 days later it plays super smooth and evil lol. Love it

#46 3 years ago

Thank you for the feedbacks. I always believe HEP is the "Gold Standard". Don't get me wrong I still think HEP is the best. However, to keep a pinball played great - Cleaning, waxing, tweaking, fixing and playing are very important. Lol! I like doing these things. These are the reasons I am in this hobby.

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