Yeah MM never made closeout status. I got one of the last one's at Betson's in Baltimore and it's sat in my living room ever since. Word was WMS severely underestimated the popularity of the title but was already making CV. CV and NGG did become closeouts and I got lucky with those. Lucky as I had only been into pins for a couple years before all this happened.

It's not rocket science as somebody said... if there were enough really nice MM's that people were willing to sell there would have been no demand for MMr and no business opportunity for PPS.

I'm delighted they remade these and I hope everybody that eventually gets their pins enjoys them. So they might play a little different... look a little different... who cares? It's a genuinely FUN game that people should be able to buy if they like. Now they
actually have the opportunity without sharks trying to take advantage of them. 8k is no bargain but it beats what people were asking for so-so examples a year or two ago.

Arguing over the differences is a waste of time at this point and I had been coming by to see some unboxing pics that have sadly slowed down. I've never paid in full for something and then had to wait so I can imagine it must be frustrating. To put it mildly...

I think the only real solution for affected owners IS a populated PF swap but they'll never do that. Besides the costs of initially producing the units they would have to pay shipping both ways to be fair to the customer. They are already asking the customer to do the grunt work in any case.

Sending out a bare PF is what Stern often does and this doesn't really fix anything. People rarely go to the trouble of installing them in a brand new game so it's more of a sop to the buyer...you keep it around, you sell it, you maybe throw it in when you sell the machine, etc.

I suppose this can make the buyer feel better about the perceived/real drop in value to their machine but they still don't end up with what they paid for. Same deal with some kind of cash rebate.

It's a shame as I was happy to see these remade for everybody and except for this issue (and the early PF's chipped up by the slingshots) the quality seems great. Hopefully it's a small enough amount of customers affected that they step up to the plate and deliver.

They came up with a "cost effective" solution: an update that will let you turn your LEDs way down.

It's effective because it costs them nothing

Since they have a relationship with the programmer and since an overall dimming level of the LEDs isn't rocket science

And since he'll want employment on the next title he'll probably offer to do it gratis... not sure where QA applies with the inserts as
there seems to have been a period when they were *not* paid.

Regardless you now have an 8k machine with faded inserts and no solution. I just feel bad for the group that ended up with these.

Yeah... the hopefully small group that ended up with the faded inserts. It's discussed in the "early MMR buyers" thread.

I think the question of the faded inserts is somewhat related to unboxings as right at that point the owner needs to check and potentially warn or reassure others on the issue.

I don't think it matters if the the rather thin skinned salesman of this project checks in anymore as lately all he has done is point his finger at Churchill whenever a problem arises. In other words the owners are on their own in figuring out who to contact, etc if there is an issue.

Except for this insert problem and the way they have reacted to it... I think it's been a heck of a success. MM's gameplay is head and shoulders above most other titles so people that missed out on the first time got lucky. Unless you are part of a hopefully small group that may or may not ever feel great about the purchase. Time will tell I suppose.

Watch it bud! Some people over here are very partial towards that buttery baby poop

To be fair his camera managed to make it look worse than reality... by a little bit.

That's a GOOD thing. Maybe they are doing something about the recent insert issue? One can hope...

"legible"... hardly a ringing endorsement lol.

I just feel sorry for you guys not getting the jet black text everybody else got before you in line. And what we all got on the original.
But if you guys are satisfied I'll keep my mouth shut. Hopefully these new ones are back to spec.

The hotspot issue is unrelated. They should have known about this before shipping since on THIS setup... you can't swap out the LED's or adjust the distance under the PF like the original. Plus you can't dim them in the menu... or has this been added?

Other than this I think they did a pretty nice job on one of the best titles ever.

You're wrong about the inserts...I've tried every kind of super bright LED's in all my machines (MM included) and never did they turn an insert grey. In fact the more blinding the insert...the darker the text would look because of the contrast. So that's a crock unfortunately...
you'll see when you get your plastic sheet. It's also not a "minor teething issue" as the inserts will always be a misprint and if you ever go to sell the machine you'll take a hit.

However it sounds like you're already pleased with your 8k purchase...which is a good thing for your peace of mind (and I'm not being sarcastic). I would be livid and would demand the same quality the first few hundred buyers got. Real simple.

It also shows why they probably didn't bother running some more PF's with the proper screening... like the earlier MMR's had (or ANY machine ever really) - they figured it was "good enough" for an 8k machine and the new owners would live with it.

So far they've been right on the money.

Despite my rant here I hope you enjoy it...MM's a great game.

We've seen pics of the diffuser with the machine on and it doesn't compare to the jet black ink of the originals. Or even of the earlier MMR's where the PF screening seemed fine.

But it seems to be "good enough" for most of the buyers and that may be ok... who'd want to be permanently irritated with the machine after a long wait and a lot of money.?

I'm just irritated at Rick and co FOR you guys... you paid the same amount and waited even longer than the earlier customers and then they ship you...this? Even after they KNOW the ink is sub-par. Who does this? They couldn't bother to run some more PF's once they knew there was a problem for their valuable customers? Do they have no pride in the product they sell?

OK they didn't want to spend the $$ to send out populated PF's to the first batch of people affected by the issue.. But to then insist on using the old stock that they now KNOW is bad?

I was stoked when this project happened as I would never sell mine and wanted to see more people be able to own this machine. WMS themselves said they didn't anticipate the demand and had wished they had done 3x as many at the time.

And after the slingshot issue it seemed like people were getting what they paid for (whew)... and then now THIS is happening.

I'll shut up about this and I am not trying to annoy new owners. I am happy for you guys but what PPS is doing about this (or not doing) just sticks in my craw. And demanding pics from their customers so they can say "falls within tolerances" is just awful. Especially since they acknowledged there was (and apparently STILL IS) an issue.

Once again... as dry as a good martini

So you got one of the earlier "good" ones. Great. Seriously...

What's that got to do with them still selling the defective stock to people that have waited longer and paid eight thousand dollars?

Selling off the "inferior" PF's with faded inserts after they now KNOW about the problem...? As Judge Judy would say...

"outrageous"

I just want the guys to stick up for themselves and get one of the "good" ones like the first few hundred people.
Like yourself apparently. I didn't think it would be a controversial stance.

I didn't think wanting the same level of quality for current buyers would get get people yelling at EACH OTHER... yell at PPS and demand the same quality as the next guy. Tell them sending you a PF that they have acknowledged has problems is unacceptable for eight grand and a long wait. It also strikes me as cheap and underhanded (but don't say that right off the bat)

Good luck everybody - you deserve one with a properly printed playfield. Just like the earlier buyers got.

Did ya ask him about another current issue that is "fairly transparent"?? Sorry... couldn't resist

Regardless of how the company is handling (or not handling) problems... you guys have a right to be excited as MM is a great game and should be in any collection. I said my piece and indeed it's up to each individual to decide how they feel and what (if anything) to do about it.

Enjoy it! That part sure isn't hard...

Smooth is good. Otherwise you'd have Stern MM.

I'm so old fashioned I'd have to have the stainless. You get the iconic classic look and the ease of care and durability.

Damn how did I get so old anyways?

The plate looks like the top that slides on to your plastic coin box in the bottom of the cab. The wingnuts are used to fasten down the head to the cab in the upright position for added safety. You can get by at home maybe with just the clip but if you are planning on smacking it around with death saves, etc... better use those wingnuts. Having the head fall forward full force isn't pretty

If the plate you're referring to is the black one... that screws on after you push the power cord into the back of the cab to prevent it from falling out.

Congrats fellow pin owner!

Well to be fair he was the first guy to get rightfully indignant when he received his new MMr and saw the issue. Everybody appreciated him raising the flag over this... his later gushing over the "amazing" fix promised to him (if he swore himself to secrecy) - not so much.

I remember him saying he would ONLY accept a new PF but I had no idea he deleted all his posts. Hmmm wonder if money talks? That's a sad commentary on this entire situation.

Glad you're happy - that's really all that counts. I wouldn't discount other new owners comments, concerns and pictures though.

I'm still waiting for a new owner to say "Jet black! Black is back baby!" and then post a pic because a typical insert with black text shouldn't be impossible to photograph.

But if it's "good enough" for you... then it's good enough. And I don't mean that in a snarky way. You SHOULD be allowed to feel good about it. Enjoy.

So FINALLY the OP gets his prize! Congrats ya hoser

Poor guys gotta hump that machine up the stairs with you taking pics like a paparazzi... lol. They must love that.

Well the castle inserts look good with the machine turned off. Maybe they have burned through the "lightly printed" PF's by now? One can hope...

Ah ha - I rushed through the last few pics... just saw guys and stairs. Yeah I have the same arrangement over here. Going down sure beats going up

lol

Congrats

Like the classic trim btw.

Since you're showing off the inserts in those pics (and they seem to look ok)... can you guarantee your customers will get that quality and NOT a factory second like they have been shipping? Did PPS tell you they had finally gone through the iffy PF's?

I bring this up because if I were a customer looking at your pics and then I got yet another faded one I might be unhappy. In fact I'd be pretty upset.

I don't think you need to hype this machine to make sales. Just the confidence to tell the customer that they WILL get the same quality PF's MMr's originally shipped with.

Yeah since they knew this one would be on display maybe they found one of the earlier PF's to put in it I sure wouldn't want to take an 8k gamble knowing now there is no recourse if a faded one shows up at your door.

Kinda odd that this "display" model has decent PF like the earlier ones but that the last few owners that JUST received theirs report the "thin ink" problem is still there.

I'm impressed with these new owners being so impartial and openly pointing this out. If I had waited so long and paid 8k I'd probably be in denial. If it wasn't such a great title it wouldn't matter as much I suppose.

How surprising

Yeah even on the earlier MMr's I noticed the art was off center a bit and most obvious down by the switches in the inlanes and outlanes.
Instead of the switch being dead center in the oval art opening - it was almost on the edge. Same with the others... but I shrugged that off as the original PF's MMr came with looked great overall. But who could have seen this insert thing coming?

Apparently when CGC screws up with WMS or Stern as a client they are told to chuck 'em out. But with CGC actually running this show (or PPS) this option is obviously NOT on the table.

To be fair we've all seen the cab and the three kinds of trims. The only thing that can be different is the PF quality and if it comes with the plastic sheet. So it's only natural people would point this out.

So you guys would rather see the EXACT same pics over and over of the exact same three trims - and no mention of the only thing that may be different from one machine to another? I always thought the PF was part of the unboxing? Maybe we should only show cab pics from now on.

Look I get some people don't want to talk about the PF and believe or not I'm trying to cut back on mentioning it. But Blame Rick and CGC for spoiling the tranquility of this thread. They didn't have to create this issue.

Hmm

I'm just amazed people so easily accept getting a product that is not as nice as the first 200 or so. It just bugs me. No wonder they didn't bother to re-print any PF's. They knew their customers far better than I did apparently. And it *could* have been me and I'd have been quite pissed off. So I was trying to get you guys to fight for what you deserved and paid for.

But I agree - I've posted WAY to much about it. Early on you'll see where I was excited for everybody and enjoyed seeing the pics.

And I genuinely didn't want to spoil anybody's good time - it's a great title and people should enjoy it. And it IS awkward talking about the issue when some don't want to hear about it.

So I'll try not to mention it in this thread again - see how reasonable I am? If I forget - let me know... nicely I hope.

20k ?? c'mon Buddy. I've yet to find someone who admits to paying 12k for one. Maybe a HEP game but those are always ridiculous.

I've heard a lot of "I knew a guy that knew a guy..." but I'd like to actually hear from a long time member here that they paid 12k for just a basic nice one.

I just don't think you need to hype 'em... the pics look good if that is what you get. It's a great game.

BTW - what's with talk of "selling out"? Is there a set number of standards they are going to make? I didn't think that was the case?

Thanks but I'll wait until somebody we know says they paid 20k. Faceless pics won't help so don't spend your time... thanks though.

People can ASK anything they like... then they end up selling for far less and of course won't disclose this. Hence the so called price inflation. "That guy was asking 15k...and it sold!" Except it was for FAR less and you won't hear about that.

That thread just seemed to be a lot of wild speculation. I'll wait until somebody we know tells us they paid 12k or more for a typical MM

Hey put up a little post-it sign with "23k or best" on it. Apparently that instantly makes it worth 23k

Ummm sure... because THIS issue is the one that deserves outrage

If there is no setting in the menu and it has an actual knocker... you can simply unplug it up in the backbox (if it's still in the original location). Another option is to use a blue rubber pad on the stop so you notice it but it's not like a gunshot.

No the reason you are happy with your game is that they were finally shamed into NOT sending their customers faded factory second PF's!

This issue was not "made bigger"... and there are a lot of your fellow customers that are now stuck with the irregular PF's that DON'T think they are stunning and will be worth less when they sell.

So if you got a good one... great. Thank the people that complained as they sent out the bad product and enabled you to get a good one. Don't make assumptions - read the history and be thankful you got a decent PF.