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(Topic ID: 253837)

MMR stopped turning on?


By marksf123

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 52 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by YeOldPinPlayer
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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IMG_4725 (resized).JPG
LED-list-MMr (resized).jpg
IMG_4721 (resized).JPG
IMG_4720 (resized).JPG
IMG_4718 (resized).JPG

There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 1 year ago

My MMr will not cycle on. I turn it on and the lights come on on the boards. The added speaker lights come on but that is it. The GI light dont come on and the game does not start up? It is completely dark.

Any ideas?

Thanks

#2 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

My MMr will not cycle on. I turn it on and the lights come on on the boards. The added speaker lights come on but that is it. The GI light dont come on and the game does not start up? It is completely dark.
Any ideas?
Thanks

When you say lights are on on the boards, does that include the board in the backbox? Do you have a clear picture of what that looks like powered up in this scenario you can post?

#3 1 year ago

Here are a couple of pics.....

IMG_4718 (resized).JPGIMG_4720 (resized).JPG
#4 1 year ago

a couple of other bits of information.... before it stopped working I was having trouble with the display not working and the left troll not working. I have been having trouble with the display for a little bit where sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I usually try to push the connectors back in but sometimes it just comes back on it's own. The left troll is something new.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

a couple of other bits of information.... before it stopped working I was having trouble with the display not working and the left troll not working. I have been having trouble with the display for a little bit where sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I usually try to push the connectors back in but sometimes it just comes back on it's own. The left troll is something new.

So in one pic the display breakout board led is green and the other it's red. What's the difference functionally when the color's different?

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

So in one pic the display breakout board led is green and the other it's red. What's the difference functionally when the color's different?

I think it is trying to send a signal to the display when it is green but the display does not show anything. It just flickers..... What is the function of the breakout board with the buttons?

#7 1 year ago

I know zero about this machine, however if it were mine I'd reseat that black board. I'd also check the USB cable is seated firmly on both ends.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

I think it is trying to send a signal to the display when it is green but the display does not show anything. It just flickers..... What is the function of the breakout board with the buttons?

That board is just the interface to the display that allows you to make adjustments to it.

The problem is, I don't have this remake to compare. That cable with the red light in the upper right looks like it's for the watchdog circuit. What do the boards under the PF look like with power on? Any red LEDs below the fuses on each driver board?

#9 1 year ago

I had a very similar problem about a month ago. Mine would attempt to boot, at times I would get feature lights. Game would try to start, no display and very weak solenoids. I also had a constant ticking noise out of the speakers, no sound. If I disconnected the speaker plug (bottom right corner), game would boot and play fine just no sound. I ended up having a shorted cabinet speaker. Game was outfitting with an upgraded sound system from prior owner. I replaced it and no problems since.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Any red LEDs below the fuses on each driver board

OK - I think that helped. I was able to find a blown fuse on one of the boards below the playfield. I think I read it as T4L250V. I will need to buy those.

Please see pic for reference. It is the fuse without the green light.

IMG_4721 (resized).JPG
#11 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

OK - I think that helped. I was able to find a blown fuse on one of the boards below the playfield. I think I read it as T4L250V. I will need to buy those.
Please see pic for reference. It is the fuse without the green light.[quoted image]

Well, that at least puts the problem in the area of these coils:

Castle Gate Power
Castle Gate Hold

Left Flipper power
Left Flipper Hold

Troll Left Power
Troll Left Hold

-- all of which are protected by that F3 fuse that blew.

Here's the page from the manual with the LEDs and what color they should be (and on or off):

LED-list-MMr (resized).jpg
#12 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

I was able to find a blown fuse... I think I read it as T4L250V. I will need to buy those.
Please see pic for reference. It is the fuse without the green light.

It says right on the board it's a 4A fuse. That means 4 amp. Any hardware store should have them. Take your old one to compare length. If you're ordering, Pinball Life has them.

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

It says right on the board it's a 4A fuse. That means 4 amp. Any hardware store should have them. Take your old one to compare length. If you're ordering, Pinball Life has them.

4amp SLO BLOW 250V. Not regular 4A.

Ace Hardware has these for sure. You have one in Palm Beach Gardens:
9820 FL A1AAlt #201
Palm Beach Gardens, FL

Also, I would try removing the F4 fuse from the POWER SUPPLY BOARD and using that in F3 on that solenoid board. It's also a 4A Slo Blo, and is just for the knocker. So you can see if that works and gets you back going, or if you have a short and that one blows, too. In which case buy a bunch of the 4A tomorrow.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Troll Left Power
Troll Left Hold

Thanks - I was having issues with the left troll so maybe that is the problem.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

Thanks - I was having issues with the left troll so maybe that is the problem.

Is there a plug for the leads to the left troll solenoid that you can easily unplug? I'd do that before swapping in the fuse and see if the game works. That way you don't blow the new fuse first thing and know that the problem is likely a short at or near the left troll coil.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Is there a plug for the leads to the left troll solenoid that you can easily unplug? I'd do that before swapping in the fuse and see if the game works. That way you don't blow the new fuse first thing and know that the problem is likely a short at or near the left troll coil.

Well too late, I took the fuse out of the power supply board and it blew right away. The game still didnt do anything before it blew. It looks like there could be a broken wire at the left troll. It is hard to tell as there is an aftermarket troll lights added to the game and I cant figure out how they are hooked up (I am the 2nd owner of the game and did not install them).

Also - i can move the right Troll up and down pretty easily from under the playfield but the left is a lot tighter and harder to push up.

IMG_4725 (resized).JPG
#17 1 year ago

Also shouldn't the GI lights still at least come on ever if that fuse blows? Or is it related?

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

Well too late, I took the fuse out of the power supply board and it blew right away. The game still didnt do anything before it blew. It looks like there could be a broken wire at the left troll. It is hard to tell as there is an aftermarket troll lights added to the game and I cant figure out how they are hooked up (I am the 2nd owner of the game and did not install them).
Also - i can move the right Troll up and down pretty easily from under the playfield but the left is a lot tighter and harder to push up.[quoted image]

I need a wider shot of that troll, or another angle...

I can't see where the solenoid wires are routed.

Do you have a multimeter?

Quoted from marksf123:

Also shouldn't the GI lights still at least come on ever if that fuse blows? Or is it related?

Not sure, I don't have this machine, so I'm not sure of the bootup process, but if blowing that fuse tripped the watchdog circuit (as it seems to have), then maybe that prevents a full boot.

#19 1 year ago

Appreciate the help - I will take some more photos tomorrow. I do have a multimeter.

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

Appreciate the help - I will take some more photos tomorrow. I do have a multimeter.

If there's no obvious broken wire to the coil, set the multimeter to ohms and check between the common/power lugs and common/hold lugs and see what the resistance is. That should give you an idea if the coil is shorted.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

i can move the right Troll up and down pretty easily from under the playfield but the left is a lot tighter and harder to push up.

That's a sign your coil has probably heated up and partially melted the sleeve. Remove the wires from the coil lugs and measure the resistance. The coil should be an FL-11753 and measure 9.8 ohms on the power side, 165 on the hold side.

You'll want to get that troll moving freely but I doubt it's the cause of the game not booting.

#22 1 year ago

is it just me..... or does the CAT-5 cable look like its not fully inserted

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from hoby1:

is it just me..... or does the CAT-5 cable look like its not fully inserted

It does look out, maybe?

0B1CE881-153C-4175-8DE1-8DA58E6ED90E.png
#24 1 year ago

CAT-5 cable is ok. I re-checked it. Thanks for the suggestions.

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

CAT-5 cable is ok. I re-checked it. Thanks for the suggestions.

How’s that troll assembly, still sticking? I’ve had coils go bad like suggested above. Melted coil=immediate blown fuse.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

CAT-5 cable is ok. I re-checked it. Thanks for the suggestions.

The more I think about it, the more I think the left troll coil probably shorted and melted, swelling in the process, which is why the movement is difficult for the rod that pushes the troll up. Definitely check the resistance of the power and hold lugs on it using your multimeter set to ohms. I bet you'll find one or both shorted.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

The more I think about it, the more I think the left troll coil probably shorted and melted, swelling in the process, which is why the movement is difficult for the rod that pushes the troll up. Definitely check the resistance of the power and hold lugs on it using your multimeter set to ohms. I bet you'll find one or both shorted.

Old school it. Unplug or disconnect that coil and sacrifice a fuse.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from underlord:

Old school it. Unplug or disconnect that coil and sacrifice a fuse.

Yep - that is what I am going to do. I went to the hardware store and tried to buy some fuses but no-one had them so ordering them online. So I will have to wait till the weekend to try it again as that is when I can get back to the game. Thanks for everyone's help and will let you know.

#29 1 year ago

OK - unplugged the left troll and put in a new fuse and the fuse did not blow so obviously a problem with that troll. The bigger issue is the game still did not boot up. The watchdog led on the board is still red. Any idea what to do next. I want to get the game to boot up then will work on fixing the troll.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

OK - unplugged the left troll and put in a new fuse and the fuse did not blow so obviously a problem with that troll. The bigger issue is the game still did not boot up. The watchdog led on the board is still red. Any idea what to do next. I want to get the game to boot up then will work on fixing the troll.

Are all the other lights under the PF the correct colors or state (on/off) according to the chart I posted?

Did you put a new 4A fuse on the power supply board to replace the one you borrowed to test the solenoid board?

Can you post a picture of the power supply board with the machine ON (even if it's not booting).

#31 1 year ago

I’m not familiar with CGC tech as far as short circuit protection, but in today’s cars there is a reset after removing the cause of the short. Is there a watchdog reset procedure involved?
I would imagine whatever controlled that coil may still be damaged?

#32 1 year ago

Can you tell if your after-market Troll eyes mod use alligator clips?

I had an issue of blowing a fuse years ago on my original MM with one of the the alligator clips coming loose and touching something under the pf causing a fuse to blow.
Not sure if this is your issue, but just thought I would mention it.

#33 1 year ago

CR8 is flashing green
CR9 is solid red

CR5 Code on the playfield board is flashing green (i dont see that one on the diagram)
CR7 is flashing green

#34 1 year ago
Quoted from JMK:

Can you tell if your after-market Troll eyes mod use alligator clips?

Nope not using clips, they are connectors. It is not the troll eyes but green lights under the trolls.

#35 1 year ago

Cr9 controls... what?

#36 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

CR8 is flashing green
CR9 is solid red
CR5 Code on the playfield board is flashing green (i dont see that one on the diagram)
CR7 is flashing green

Wait, I'm confused. Did you mix boards? Since there are the same designators used for both boards on some of them, it's easier to list them separately.

Can you take a picture of your powered power supply board in the head next to the controller?

#37 1 year ago
Quoted from underlord:

Cr9 controls... what?

I am not sure - it doesn't explain it on the diagram. Just says blank normally off.

CR7 flashing on the playfield board that I noted above seems correct

#38 1 year ago

CR8 & CR9 are from the controller board

CR5 and CR7 are from the playfield board

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

I am not sure - it doesn't explain it on the diagram. Just says blank normally off.
CR7 flashing on the playfield board that I noted above seems correct

Blank signal explanation here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-is-blanking-signale-used-for#post-3229912

#40 1 year ago

Ok, I’ve got a manual on MMR. Unplug sol driver 3
Connectors J7 lh troll.

#41 1 year ago

Then unplug solenoid driver board 3, see if blanking is restored on cpu.

#42 1 year ago
Quoted from underlord:

Ok, I’ve got a manual on MMR. Unplug sol driver 3
Connectors J7 lh troll.

I unplugged J3 & J7 and still the same issue

#44 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

Unfortunately, that was over my head

Have you unplugged the machine completely? If not, try that for a few minutes (unplugged) then plug it back in, then as you power on, watch CR10 (the watchdog LED) and see if it goes immediately red, or if it's off or some other color initially in boot.

Then, once it's red (I assume it will go red), try pressing the little yellow reset button below the battery on the left side and observe CR10 again.

#45 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

Unfortunately, that was over my head

Basically your MMR May either be stuck in protection mode in the CPU or may just need a reset. Unplugging the shorted coil got rid of the cause, but now you’re dealing with the symptoms.

By unplugging the boards that lead up to the cpu you’re trying to isolate the symptom.

Reset every time you unplug something, give the cpu time to adjust and see what happens.

#46 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Have you unplugged the machine completely? If not, try that for a few minutes (unplugged) then plug it back in, then as you power on, watch CR10 (the watchdog LED) and see if it goes immediately red, or if it's off or some other color initially in boot.
Then, once it's red (I assume it will go red), try pressing the little yellow reset button below the battery on the left side and observe CR10 again.

I unplugged it, it goes red immediately when I turn it on. Reset button had no impact as nothing happened.

#47 1 year ago

what does the black cable on the top of the controller board do? How do I take that off and reset it? It seems really tight?

#48 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

what does the black cable on the top of the controller board do? How do I take that off and reset it? It seems really tight?

Pretty sure that's the mini-HDMI out to the display.

I'm wondering if you didn't blow out the pic at U16 when it the coil shorted out. Or, looking at the solenoid connectors on the playfield board, they go straight to a 74HC273N, which could be blown out, but I can't imagine that would stop the game from booting.

Power off and try taking off all the connectors on the bottom of the playfield controller (3 molex connectors and 1 ethernet) and then the HDMI of the top (carefully, you don't want to dislodge that daughterboard it's attached to). Then power on and see what you get.

#49 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

I'm wondering if you didn't blow out the pic at U16 when it the coil shorted out.

I hope not....

What do I do next? Who do I call to fix these new games?

#50 1 year ago
Quoted from marksf123:

I hope not....
What do I do next? Who do I call to fix these new games?

Try disconnecting the 4 connectors on the bottom of the backbox and powering on.

If that doesn't change things and give a clue about what might have blown, opening a ticket on CGC's support desk is probably the next step. Maybe they've seen it before and can point you in the right direction.

If that pic IS blown, it's socketed, so it's super-easy to replace. Getting it is the only hard part since it's programmed with CGC code and not off-the-shelf

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