I am about to put a deposit down on one of JPop's boutique pins. I'm perplexed that he hasn't finished MG, yet he's able to work on CV or/or TOTAN. I'm hoping that this is some sort of partnering agreement which would excel his boutique line in the end. I'm pumped about these 2.0s being redone and thankful to Rick for doing so. In the end, all that matters now is me playing my ? trimmed out MM!

I just started a new WPC 2.0 thread ...

Lol he's not the sharpest tool in the shed is he?

To their credit, it appears that Pinball News removed that quote from their story regarding the MM ramp.

Do you not get it? I did not talk of failure, I wrote of LED output degradation which is inherent to the technology.

Crash said:

Do you not get it? The leads on typical LEDs break causing a loss of power. Has absolutely nothing to do with life expectancy. These tend to flicker and short out as a result of cheap Chinese soldering and excessive vibration. Surface mounted LEDs do not have this problem.

Surface mount LEDS do not have this problem of degradation. Cars have had them in the dash for the last 20 years with no issues same with household appliances, etc.
The aftermarket LED bulbs have this problem due to variances in voltage and other issues which is not an issue for surface mount ones or OEM ones that are controlled by strict tolerances.

All LEDs degrade in time. That is fact. Ones in cars degrade too. I didn't say they wont work. They will be dimmer than new ones of the exact same age but unused. Be it 90% or 50%, it will dim over time. If one does crap out for some reason the replacment will not look the same. If some light board with smd's gets replaced 2 years down the line there will be a noticable difference betwen the old and new ones. These are facts of the technology.

Ok.... Is there anyone who DOESNT have an "original" MM that's actually worried about the life expectancy of the surface-mount LEDs?

Cheers.

No

I'm not concerned with them at all. but to say there will never be a failure is silly. and to say they don't degrade over time is just wrong.

I get what you're saying. Like touching up the paint on a wall years later with paint that was saved in a can. It's not going to match.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

No I just think the "it will never have to be replaced" type of comments are crazy. These are pinball machines, things can and do go wrong. This is also a new boardset, ask JJP how seamless that went for them so far. I can't wait until they do a game I want. It'll be great to get one new for less than the going rate of a nice one.

So, here's the perfect solution. Along one edge of the board, maybe even the back side, put a few (or 10) extra LEDs that are lit but just shine into dead space. The can be like the extra buttons sewn onto the tail of a shirt. Since they'll be lit, they'll degrade at the same rate as all the other LEDs in the game and you'll have a matching replacement.

Wait a minute! If they're lit all the time, they'll degrade faster than the blinking ones elsewhere in the game! Maybe they will need to be controlled the same as on of the insert "lamps"... but which one? Oh, no! All of the "real" LEDs are going to be lit at different times and degrade at different rates. Maybe we need LED wear leveling so that they all remain consistent.

Seriously, though. It's a pinball machine, not a Mars lander.

I will admit, however, that I would like to be able to take a crack at writing a PWM kernel module (or however it's implemented) to allow brightness and transition control.

YES please! I think it needs it, my only complaint after playing one.

You seem knowledgeable, I am asking this sincerely.

It's a fact that right now the LEDs in MM are only operating at a certain percentage of the brightness they are capable of. This has been stated by Rick, and the fact that they can get brighter to compensate for an LED if it goes out.

If an LED has a 50,000 hour rating, which means at that time it will be 70% bright, but the software is running the LEDs at 60% of their max brightness (I'm just making that up, hypothetical), wouldn't it mean that any replacement defective LEDs (at 50,000 hours) would look the exact same? You would have some LEDs only capable of 70% brightness, some capable of 100% brightness, but all of them running at 60% brightness.

Or is the brightness relative, at 25,000 hours the LEDs will only be 85% as bright as the software is telling them to be even though they are capable of being as bright as they should be?

no, the brightness is controlled by the voltage going to the LED. A new LED getting the same voltage as an old one will not be the same brightness. the 85% part you talked of would be correct (assuming a linear degradation of output, which isn't realistic).

I'm glad the castle sequence was fixed, it would have been the only reason I would have cancelled my ordered. However it wasn't milliseconds off, it was majorly off, it looked like crap in the first video, nothing like the original. So although I'm glad it has been fixed (hopefully) I find your response about complaining about milliseconds a bit arrogant as are a lot of your responses, like the one about just canceling the project altogether and how you don't care if some drops their order because there is a long line up of people waiting to take the spot, I find you extremely arrogant sometimes, my own opinion. In the first video it wasn't milliseconds off, it was WAY off. But if it is fixed that is a big relief.

The castle sequence has Improved over the last time we saw it but it is still a bit off. I am sure Rick will get it dialed in but the Original has quite a bit more action in the destruction sequence and the castle is way more "destroyed" on the original at the end of the sequence, I am sure it's just a timing issue.
See original destruction sequence here at 1:33 min & 3:38 min on this video notice the action the castle has in destruct sequence and how it stays destroyed (watch right rear tower bent way over and the center tower at the end of the sequence)
I am sure it's just an adjustment that won't be hard to make.
Original:

Remake:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/XmnARRieHHo?autoplay=1&rel=0

Wow.

I'd care way more about the drawbridge not going up than the destruction sequence being off.

I believe draw bridge adjustments are much easier to make than destruction sequence timing and castle movement.

Thanks for the video man. I really wanted to see the new castle sequence!

any of these adjustments are easy to make if needed ... it also was a challenge with the 100 Volts for the pulse modulated coils ...

Man that thing looks sweet. MM is certainly a fun game but was never too high on my want list. However, make a Cirqus Voltaire remake and I will be FIRST in line with a wad of non-consecutive Benjamins.

This guy has done so much for pinball and continues to do so much for pinball that I think most of us give him the Ok to be arrogant at times. Not a big deal.

X 100 on CV if Rick can improve the code (with a little input from JPOP)

Yep. Replace both the video modes with improved 2.0 standard modes and find a better way to implement the "Cannon" and CV would be one of the best ever!

Copycat is awesome! But yeah, death to Roonie.

Wear leveling, haha! Maybe you can invent TRIM for pinball machines!

I'll admit that I was disappointed as well. My expectations were gold tone trim with a mirror type finish. To be fair the gold in the picture could actually be the powdercoat it turned out to be as it doesn't necessarily show any reflection on the flyer.

My original thought was once the process of doing the gold was decided I would simply switch to standard trim if I didn't like the look. There were a few other extra's added for LE. Getting the machine 6 months or so earlier would be nice enough for me. Rick doubled the warranty to 1 full year for all models. Just simple changes like this that were not expected make me want to stay in with the LE.

Maybe if enough people brought it up Rick would be willing to do the plated gold/brass and the buyer is taking full risk of it going to hell.

Just think about it though if Rick is not comfortable with it you would probably be taking a real gamble. Imagine the first day you notice the clear came off and the brass is starting to tarnish. That would piss me off so I don't want to even bother risking it.

Sure it's a bummer, but ultimately I'm still glad to be getting the pin.

Compared to other manufacturers I really think what PPS is accomplishing is unheard of in this hobby.

If that's true, you're doing it wrong.

I thought the same thing. I would sign or respond via e-mail that PPS is not responsible for any tarnishing or defects. Then my business mind took over and thought Rick will not want to do this. PPS and everyone involved wants a really high quality product with little to zero defects. I actually respect that they would not want to have to deal with people being upset over tarnishing or flaking trim. At first I was a little discouraged, but Rick stated he had tried and it simply did not come out right and too much energy was going into it-ok I do not like to kick dead horses. I also thought Rick was not going to do the Gold powder but switch it to Black. That was not the case-he just added Black to the options. I do not care for the Gold powder look as much as the plated brass shiny look-but it is what it is. I can live with the Gold Powder look and overall I just want a new MM. I had the thought that Rick may want to offer Chrome or Red powder as LE options as well. I would change my trim choice if more options became available. If it is not too much trouble and energy?

Blue

Can you re-route them through the deflector dish?

PS - Any chance of seeing some of these at Allentown? I've managed to scrape together some funds and the front runners are WOZLE, MMRLE, STTNG + RBION, or a pimped out Virtual Pin with Force Feedback. Pretty much in that order, but still undecided. Can only pick 1 scenario.

i seen on picture in this topic 3 differents led for 1 insert
my question is , do you used on MMRLE multicolors smd led.
I like multicolor on different new games Limited Edition currently and price is similar

So much hand-wringing over trim color. For me, nothing could possibly look better on MM than stainless steel. I'll wait for a standard MMR, thanks.

hoct.jpg

Yeah but all these new games are not MM or anywhere close to it. I'm happy they are going the route of colored inserts lit by 3 leds with a back up system for the MMR myself. I enjoy they eye candy of all color changing inserts but do find myself missing old school colored insert look. What they did for ST Pro was a good compromise between color changing and standard colored inserts IMO.

Stainless is an option on the LE, the trim is far from the only LE upgrade.

I wish PPS would say, "we've wasted too much time on trim already. We changed our mind: everything stainless. If you want another color, go nuts. If you want to cancel your order over trim color, feel free." How many people would cancel? And how many would be in line to fill those spots?

If I was a manufacturer, after seeing Stern's quality issues with chrome and colored powdercoat over the last few years, I wouldn't want to deal with customer complaints and replacing cosmetic hardware under warranty. Pinball trim quality wasn't an issue for the better part of a century. Modern collectors created a problem where one didn't exist by convincing manufacturers that commercial hardware needs to look like Skittles.

I'm part of the problem here, and I do own a game with custom aftermarket trim. I just wish everything would ship basic black or stainless, and let us nutjobs take over from there.

Are there any LE upgrades that aren't just cosmetic? I'm not being snarky, I honestly don't know.

Well it's an expensive machine and some of us prefer different look. IMO it is great of PPS to offer multiple trim options including a shiny black after buyers/fans provided feedback.

Shaker Motor. Plus, all of a sudden I'm hearing that the colorized display upgrade will be free for LE owners, so we can only assume some upcharge for standard machines. Hmmmm.

" At this time it will be a free LE upgrade to the software - likely no charge for LE owners."

Not sure how they'd lock out or charge for the code on non-LE machines. Will they each have a specific coded serial or something?

Thanks for the info. I dislike shaker motors in most games, and don't care very much about color DMDs. I'm happy to wait for a standard MMR, and let all the bugs get worked out in the LE.

Sounds about right based on everything you have said. Just get a Standard and let the rest of us enjoy ; )

Pretty sure I can't prevent anyone from enjoying their MMRLE. Thanks for the thumbs down and winky face, though.

Yes, that about sums it up ... everyone would be great now, but then complaints galore about how we could have done that after they received and the issues start to happen after sale.

rick

Obviously I can't speak for Rick, but when I release something to the world it has to be something I'm happy with. It's not good enough for someone to say "I'll sign a piece of paper promising to never complain about it if it goes bad!" That's your name and rep on every single product. You need to be proud of it, but also just practically speaking you don't want "defective" issues making everyone who sees it think you do shoddy work.

I started a thread a bit ago about brass plating my Shadow lockdown and rails, thought it would look sweet with black legs. After the (very helpful) feedback I got from people with hands on experience I decided to shelve the idea, the number of downsides and negative experiences just outweighed any of the fun.

Obviously from the factory is convenient, but if it means that much to you it's not all that hard or expensive to just have it done after you take delivery. Might have to buy new rails, hard to take off perfectly, but Rick did say the cabinet decals should be fine. Then any issues are purely on you.

What problems has Stern had with the colored powdercoat over the last few years? This is definitely news to me.

I'm not aware of issues with the powder coating on X-Men LE, Avengers LE, Metallica LE or Star Trek LE.

So what problem have "modern collectors" created exactly?