(Topic ID: 124893)

MMR sound issue


By sandersj

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 55 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by labnip
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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There are 55 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

My MMR is in and I'm LOVING it. Its been on for 3 days straight as a burn in and I've started noticing noise/popping sounds in the audio. Its possible they were there from the beginning but I don't remember them. There are deterministic and repeatable and to be honest, pretty annoying. This machine is destined for a location so its not a show stopper but I thought I'd check for a cause/solution before I popped the hood and started poking around.

Any suggestions? Has anyone else seen this?

#2 4 years ago

oops, I should have said "has anyone else heard this?"

#3 4 years ago

LTG chimed in on the PPS forum recommending re-seating sound connectors and that worked. Specifically the speaker connector on the lower right of the controller board in the backbox.

#4 4 years ago

Well darn, re-seating that connector made the sound go away for a day but its back and last night I had a 2-3 second burst of pure static in the middle of a game.

#5 4 years ago

Can you make a video on this so we can see/hear it???

-5
#6 4 years ago
Quoted from sandersj:

Well darn, re-seating that connector made the sound go away for a day but its back and last night I had a 2-3 second burst of pure static in the middle of a game.

what thats unpossible, MMr sound is clearly an "upgrade" to MM.

in case you can't tell, its sarcastic.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

what thats unpossible, MMr sound is clearly an "upgrade" to MM.
in case you can't tell, its sarcastic.

That post made about as much sense as Batman riding an elephant.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

That post made about as much sense as Batman riding an elephant.

batman_is_riding_an_elephant_by_crazybeanie-d56le1b.jpg
#9 4 years ago

I'll try to get a video posted later today. The static burst was a single event but there's regular and repeatable popping and crackling sounds that I should be able to catch. Even with the noise I'm still impressed as hell with the machine and this is hopefully a solvable minor issue.

#10 4 years ago

OK, the video didn't capture the noise but I did move the sound wires out of the cable bundle for the first 10 inches or so and That seems to have fixed it. I had to cut some cable ties but no biggie. This picture shows the sound wires after I popped them out of the first clamp and before I started cutting cable ties.

IMG_20150422_071306.jpg
#11 4 years ago

Sounds like EMF leakage from one of the data lines or the CPU. Happens through inductance as the audio cables pick up these fields and send them to the amp. I would install a ferrite core on the audio cable to deflect this noise.

#12 4 years ago

Hi,

I had the exact same problem, it seemed to only happen after the machine is on running for 10 hours straight or more. I ended up removing the speaker wires from the cable bundle entirely and adding 2 clip on ferrite cores. I haven't seen the issue again but need to test further

#13 4 years ago

I had the same symptoms in that it wouldn't happen immediately but after a while it would eventually pop up. My game has been on continuously for a week now. And you're right, extensive testing is a must.

#14 4 years ago

Well damn, after a day being on it came back, albeit in a much smaller way and barely noticeable. Ferrite cores on order from Mouser.

#15 4 years ago

I'd like to hear what you are hearing... I realize it may be hard to be videoing when it occurs, however.

#16 4 years ago

audioing

#17 4 years ago

I wish I could catch it but my phone just won't pick it up. My ears do though.

#18 4 years ago

I found that when I dimmed the translite illumination I got kind of a humm/buzz from the speakers. The noise changed as you changed the intensity level. At full brightness there was basically no hum. I then moved the cables as has been suggested and I think it got a lot fainter. Not that this helps you in any way, just figured I'd mention it.

#19 4 years ago

Yup PWM (pulse width modulation) that drives the lamps. Frequency changes and you get different levels of perceived brightness. Here's something fun to do. Get a laptop power brick or any old wall wart. Unplug it from the wall and stick your ear right up against it. You will hear the switching regulator increase in frequency as it tries to keep the voltage up, then die as it runs out of power.

2 weeks later
#20 4 years ago

I too have audio crackle. It was the first thing I noticed out of the box.
I will attempt to get a recording.
starts when the boot up sound happens and is more apparent when audio is playing.
Seems to go away after a while (or my brain compensates).
I have reseated the connector without success.

#21 4 years ago

I finally got around to installing some clip-on ferrite core filters on the sound wires and haven't heard anything since but I haven't played it much.

#22 4 years ago

which clip-on ferrite core filters are you buying and from where?
and where are you installing them?

My MMr has scratchy sound right out of the box.

#23 4 years ago

Something like this, not sure if that's the exact thing I ordered but will work

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK/ZCAT1325-0530A/?qs=GhRZM%252b2y2U0HnFePm3LFxw%3D%3D&kpid=2254785&gclid=CNHp27ShxMUCFYQAaQod2lYA5Q

and I put them on the wores as they come out of the CPU board

#24 4 years ago

Sort of on this topic, I've been having a problem with my sound too. Not a technical problem just a nit picky one. The call outs and voice overs get completely drowned out by the sound effects. Its beyond annoying. In something like Tron I can adjust the volume of the effects vs music etc. I was suggested to upgrade the speakers and check out pin fidelity (I think that's correct). Im not much of an audio tech, so I can't quite reason out how better speakers could help me hear the call outs better, but none the less I'l try anything. Before I spend $200 I'd love to hear an suggestions.

Thanks.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from AdamTheHutt:

Before I spend $200 I'd love to hear an suggestions.
Thanks.

For over a year (before the games started being produced) we heard endless assurances and reviews of this new platform that the sound was going to be "better" than the original, primitive DCS compressed games. Most of these reviews came from folks that had never seen/heard/played one in person as they were just parroting what the salesmen was telling them.

My advice, if the sound is not "better" as was advertised you should not be spending money fixing it, you should be putting in tickets to see what the MFG will do to fix it. For one thing such changes could be voiding your warranty if you do. Your baseline is the original game, for the most part that platform did not crackle, and the voice call outs could be heard just fine even on the stock speakers. IMHO.

#26 4 years ago

They could fix this with an update to the hypervisor software. IIRC, DCS tends to reserve one of the four channels for voices, another for music, and the other two for SFX. They could lower the output of the music channel slightly. Or, simply provide a mechanism to allow the end-user to adjust the volumes of the four channels independently (in the same menu system they currently use to select display color and flipper power).

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

They could fix this with an update to the hypervisor software. IIRC, DCS tends to reserve one of the four channels for voices, another for music, and the other two for SFX. They could lower the output of the music channel slightly. Or, simply provide a mechanism to allow the end-user to adjust the volumes of the four channels independently (in the same menu system they currently use to select display color and flipper power).

Sounds like this is what's going to happen. On the PPS forum, Rick said he's recommended that CGC either tweak the levels or add an option for the user to adjust the levels separately. I feel like the full color software update will also include the audio tweaks & DMD tearing fix.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

For over a year (before the games started being produced) we heard endless assurances and reviews of this new platform that the sound was going to be "better" than the original, primitive DCS compressed games. Most of these reviews came from folks that had never seen/heard/played one in person as they were just parroting what the salesmen was telling them.
My advice, if the sound is not "better" as was advertised you should not be spending money fixing it, you should be putting in tickets to see what the MFG will do to fix it. For one thing such changes could be voiding your warranty if you do. Your baseline is the original game, for the most part that platform did not crackle, and the voice call outs could be heard just fine even on the stock speakers. IMHO.

Now having my MMr for about a month, I can weigh in on this with a more detailed review of the sound.

-Voices are crystal clear - better than WPC'95.

-Music is accurate but lacks "oomph" - however, the original might have been like this - I'm just used to games with upgrades speakers and external subs. Once I hooked up my MMr to an external sub, it had "oomph" like my other games.

-Game power up "bong" sound sounds like shit compared to a real B/W. Dunno why...but when I first heard this distorted sound, I thought maybe the speakers were busted and that's why my sound lacked "oomph". I think they've just got the volume for that sound set wrong or it's an emulated sound effect or something. Oh well...doesn't affect the in-game sound.

-The voice levels of the castle bosses are a bit low. They're there and clear, but often get drowned out by music and sound FX. Princesses & trolls are loud and at a good level. My guess is that this has something to do with using the uncompressed original sound files - maybe the compressed ones had their levels adjusted in software or something.

Sounds like PPS/CGC are on the case, and some (if not all) of these issues should be addressed in a software update.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

-Music is accurate but lacks "oomph" - however, the original might have been like this

WMS 6.5" cab speaker vs Stern/JJP/everyone else 8" cab speaker.

Quoted from Rarehero:

-Game power up "bong" sound sounds like shit compared to a real B/W. Dunno why...but when I first heard this distorted sound, I thought maybe the speakers were busted and that's why my sound lacked "oomph"

May be overdriven in software, or could be the speakers they used are just crap. If I turn on a DCS game I've added amps to but left stock speakers in, the bong sounds pretty badly distorted, but the music and sounds are fine. Take a look at the MMr backbox speakers, and if they look cheap, switch them for some good ones. The MMrs at Expo 2014 sounded like they used $4 speakers...

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

WMS 6.5" cab speaker vs Stern/JJP/everyone else 8" cab speaker.

May be overdriven in software, or could be the speakers they used are just crap. If I turn on a DCS game I've added amps to but left stock speakers in, the bong sounds pretty badly distorted, but the music and sounds are fine. Take a look at the MMr backbox speakers, and if they look cheap, switch them for some good ones. The MMrs at Expo 2014 sounded like they used $4 speakers...

They're definitely cheap. Gonna upgrade at some point. As a test I ran the game through some old bookshelf speakers and it was much more robust - but that "bong" sound was still weird.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

They could fix this with an update to the hypervisor software. IIRC, DCS tends to reserve one of the four channels for voices, another for music, and the other two for SFX. They could lower the output of the music channel slightly. Or, simply provide a mechanism to allow the end-user to adjust the volumes of the four channels independently (in the same menu system they currently use to select display color and flipper power).

I seriously doubt the speakers/amps are at fault. If the callouts are not being heard over the other sounds, then it's a software problem. Metallik is correct, their WPC95 virtual "machine" will have to be adjusted for proper emulation of DCS volume channel levels, or the hardware abstraction setup (what replaces DCS sound calls with high quality uncompressed equivalents) will have to be tweaked to correct it. I'm betting on the latter as this code is directly responsible for the final output.

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

WMS 6.5" cab speaker vs Stern/JJP/everyone else 8" cab speaker.

I did some testing using an amp and the 6.5" that WMS provides blows the 8" stern away. That stern 8" is so cheap and ridiculous. Of course JJP a uses a real 8" so it actually has good sound potential.

#33 4 years ago

This is not cool. Until I see/hear one in real life I'm going to be nervous about my $8K.

#34 4 years ago

There's no reason to be nervous as it's easily fixable via a software update.

#35 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I did some testing using an amp and the 6.5" that WMS provides blows the 8" stern away. That stern 8" is so cheap and ridiculous. Of course JJP a uses a real 8" so it actually has good sound potential.

Yea Stern's current spearkers are garbage... back in LOTR days they were semi-decent. Biggest thing though is size.. the 8" is more appropriate (or, less non-appropriate) for the size of the cabinet.

#36 4 years ago

And don't forget the BSMT2000, the first stereo sound system in a pin in early 90s Data East machines. Keep cutting corners Stern!

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

And don't forget the BSMT2000, the first stereo sound system in a pin in early 90s Data East machines. Keep cutting corners Stern!

Data East, "Now in Stereo".
love those backglasses

1 month later
#38 4 years ago

I have uploaded a clip of my audio issue. I suspect there are multiple audio issues people talk about on this thread. What I've been hearing sounds like a digital problem.
* The distortion is periodic and does not always occur on loud audio.
* It does not happen when audio is not playing
* On two separate occasions, I heard the audio turn to complete static for 3-5 seconds (not in recording because i could not reproduce)

Anyone else have THIS issue?

#39 4 years ago

The good news is that CGC has identified this as a s/w issue and is apparently fixing this in the next s/w update. The bad news is that the s/w update has been "coming soon" for months now.

#40 4 years ago
Quoted from Pablito:

The good news is that CGC has identified this as a s/w issue and is apparently fixing this in the next s/w update. The bad news is that the s/w update has been "coming soon" for months now.

Happened to me the other day. I heard that it's a software bug that creeps up after the machine has been on for an extended period of time. So when it started I turned the game off, waited a few seconds, then back on. Issue disappeared. I'm just glad that it's a software bug that can be fixed as opposed to a hardware malfunction/design issue. In the meantime there's a workaround.

#41 4 years ago

Sounds like a buffer overflow within the DSP emulator. Software fixable.

1 week later
#42 4 years ago

I played a MMr on location the other day and the audio sounds like a shitty AM radio. Do you guys think this issue will get fixed?

-1
#43 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

I played a MMr on location the other day and the audio sounds like a shitty AM radio. Do you guys think this issue will get fixed?

Maybe read the three posts directly above what you posted?

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

Maybe read the three posts directly above what you posted?

I believe that's referring to static. I'm saying the whole sound package sounds like muffled garbage. Like they used low fidelity samples or something.

3 weeks later
#45 4 years ago

I love my mmr but just found the same static issue when left on for a while. Any update?

#46 4 years ago

I spoke to Doug at CGC last week and he said the s/w fix would take care of it and said we are a few weeks out from the s/w update. Said games made in the next few weeks would ship with updated code. Said Color code looks like it will be done by EOY. Take it for what it's worth.

#47 4 years ago

Thanks for that reply.

7 months later
#48 3 years ago
Quoted from Coltop:

I have uploaded a clip of my audio issue. I suspect there are multiple audio issues people talk about on this thread. What I've been hearing sounds like a digital problem.
* The distortion is periodic and does not always occur on loud audio.
* It does not happen when audio is not playing
* On two separate occasions, I heard the audio turn to complete static for 3-5 seconds (not in recording because i could not reproduce)
» YouTube video
Anyone else have THIS issue?

EDIT #2: CGC got my speaker to me, I put it in and BAM, game is sounding perfect! I am very pleased now, it's almost like getting the game all over again

I am having this issue as well, but worse, and have had it out of the box, the distortion seems to get worse on mine as the volume is increased and just sounds terrible generally, was told by CGC Pinball Technician Ron Lukwinski that there would be a controller board with a software update to fix this, opened my support ticket on December 20th shortly after I received the game and was told on the 29th that said updated board would be sent to me, have been waiting ever since with no other word. I am a very patient man, but considering the time I have been waiting and the fact that this was a brand new $8000 machine, my patience is dwindling. Needless to say, I am not a happy individual in regards to this.

EDIT: I had grown tired of waiting and had spare time (probably should have done this sooner, but I wanted to meddle around in my brand new game as little as possible), so I swapped the speakers around to confirm/dis-confirm it being a defective/damaged speaker, the distortion moved with the suspected speaker, therefore I have confirmed my problem to be with the replaced speaker itself and not the software. I have contacted CGC and expect another replacement to be shipped.

#49 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Yea Stern's current spearkers are garbage... back in LOTR days they were semi-decent. Biggest thing though is size.. the 8" is more appropriate (or, less non-appropriate) for the size of the cabinet.

Stern / Sega / Data East speakers have changed in the backbox a lot. That's true. However, the 8" in the cabinet is basically the same crappy one and not any worse today than it was back in the day. In Stern's defense, the cheaper backbox still do a decent job for mid ranges for sounds like voices and what you generally hear on a pinball machine.

1 month later
#50 3 years ago
Quoted from Coltop:

I have uploaded a clip of my audio issue. I suspect there are multiple audio issues people talk about on this thread. What I've been hearing sounds like a digital problem.
* The distortion is periodic and does not always occur on loud audio.
* It does not happen when audio is not playing
* On two separate occasions, I heard the audio turn to complete static for 3-5 seconds (not in recording because i could not reproduce)
» YouTube video
Anyone else have THIS issue?

I have this exact issue, it happens after the machine has been left on for an hour or more.

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