This has made me rethink my buying preferences. My AFM is leaving today, the MM is possibly going up for trade or sale as well. I like both of those games but don't like any game enough that is in my personal collection FOREVER if it costs more than $2-3K. lol.

I think with NIB MMs at 8000 the fair market price is between 4 and 5 thousand.
I agree. And it sounds like anybody who wants a new MM can have one.

I think your right, so long as money is to be made making these new games. I played pinball next to a good looking woman in her mid 20's in a midtown Manhattan bar last night. I was on ST and Metallica, she was playing WOZ. Is a small anecdote, but pinball is visible again. Maybe not popular, but visible. And these new sterns look GREAT! Well lit and appealing. And WOZ looks like a freaking spectacle.

I'm in on the MMr, but I think to myself, MMr or Hobbit? Or WOZ? Or MET Premium? Or XMEN pro? Holy cow, what an exciting time for pinball.

And if there are NEW MBs and AFM on location soon? Fun fun fun!

We will not know anything about this until the new MMR is produced and people play them. Some people will want the original some may prefer the remake.

I think the Original pins will loose value for sure. Not sure how much. If there are problems with the remake then the originals will retain value. If the remake is truly awesome then the originals are going to loose value.

Same with CC and AFM. Not sure why they would make AFM now. I think CC would sell another 1000 or more pins if they have the rights and can finish the code. CC would be in very high demand.

AFM restored are about 10K so I just do not see a huge market for this title. MM and CC were fetching high $$$ and at 8K price is right.

agree but i'm not buying the sentiment that some MMR owners have that every original MM is worth less than an MMR. I valued my sample MM at 11-12K pre announcement, think it's worth between 8500-10K now. I wouldn't sell it for less than the reproduction price before they are out.

I thought prices would drop but never thought my game would do so overnight, basically. I did, however, buy mine at a price that i was willing to keep it forever and not be mad if it depreciated below what i paid.

I can say that if MM, MB, CC, and AFM all dipped to under $6k I would gladly buy at least one of them. Of that list I am only not crazy about AFM. Slow build up of my collection though. Really hope that this causes a mass price correction on all pins, not just the remade ones...

Well, I'm doing buying high priced games that are candidates for reproduction, so i have more money to spend on the cheaper games. If all the deep pocketed buyers (i'm not one) decide the a games are too risky, they might pump the prices of the other games even higher. Just a thought.

i honestly don't know if mine is worth the bottom end of that but honestly don't care. It's worth that to me. If someone offers me more than i feel it's worth *to me* I would get rid of it.

I think you are 100% correct. Thanks for your thoughts.

That is also a valid concern.
Another thought of mine is that the people that bought there games as investments see that the era is ending and bail. I think that would correct the prices faster than anything else.

WTF cares. I bought my game to play. I paid $6000 for it 4 years ago. I didn't sell it when it was worth $12000 and Im not going to sell it now. You guys have been whining about the price of mm and now you are crowing because you think the price justifiably got the smackdown. Buy it, don't buy it. Buy a new one, buy a used one. The only people who should give a shit about the price going down are the people who were holding, waiting for the price to go up more to sell them. A lot of you people will find that MM is not the god of pinballs that you think it is. Its fun but how many times do you want to smack that drawbridge.

i agree. point well made. i am done posting about this game unless i put it up for sale or need technical advice.

i'm not a fan of the wall of text or RANDOM capitalized WORDS sprinkling his posts, but i agree that pinball machines should depreciate just like any other new toy. the alternative is not sustainable and leads to a lot of irrationality in the hobby in general.

certainly true collectors items that meet a minimum threshold of rarity and desirability should hold high value that increases over time in general, but right now that bar is set too low in this hobby, what with brand new mass-produced games being hoarded and flipped.

Lol I hear that!

Quite a few people have and will contionue to have a mix of old and new pins in their collections. Mine is about split (SS, MB, ToM, BoP are 'old' and METLE, WOZLE, MMLE are new). I like it that way. Many others do too.

You are basing your 'high cost pins price crash' on one pin being remade. If this is the only one, the prices of the others won't drop much, if at all. In fact, they may rise if buyers know they won't be remade!

I do agree the price of MM will drop. How much. Who knows. Remaking MM was only possible because enough people want the title and would shell out $8k and not $15k. I am in that group. Maybe CC gets done. The price delta is similar to MM, but the remake demand wouldn't be nearly as strong. They may sell 500. Maybe there's still a nice profit there? Really nice original or restored MB and AFM are in the $9k to $11k range. Maybe 300 buyers each? That's about it for the possible remakes. No other resale is high enough (outside of BBB or other limited run pins) to get enough buyers unless the price drops far below $8k. Doubtful.

i'm not concerned about it happening as i buy my games for prices i'm willing to live with. Not trying to be snarky.

that would be awesome. Unfortunately, I think there are enough people who will just target the other games because they aren't in it 100% for investment. They like pinball, just not willing to lose money. Some may argue if that is truly a person who loves pinball or not. lol.

This wasn't a commentary on mm as much as it was on the trends i see in the hobby.

I like pinball
I like to play my machines
I like to pull them apart and clean them
I have A listers, B listers , and C listers
EMs, SS, AN and DMDs

I have been in this hobby for 30 years, if these remakes revive pinball, great. if they destroy some peoples 'investments' , meh

my enjoyment of the hobby is not measured in dollars and cents

Full disclosure:
I own a Medieval Madness (not Huo, not restored, just a decent or better surviving original with original decals and playfield). I would much rather own an all original good condition machine than a fully restored no longer original redecaled or playfield swapped machine. I understand that some machines are too far gone to save and they are good candidates for these replacement parts, but minor wear doesn't qualify in my view to swap original parts to make the machine look perfect. Some parts are only repros now and you must use them to keep your machine functioning, but that's really a different story.

If I had a choice between owning the original and getting a new repro at the 8K mark I would take the original, even at a premium of up to $2K higher, even if not completely perfect as long as it had no major defects.

To me it's an original, it's a classic, while the repro may play the same it's just not the same.

The repro is a great option for many players to now play a great game, but for a player/collector like myself I would prefer the original over a repro.

So if CC is up in the future at 8k I will search out an original if I can get it for that amount rather than a repro if the market drags the price down. Now if the original CC's are still above 10K at that time I would consider the repro from my prospective as a player, but from my collector view I would not be satisfied and would sell it after I tire of it without having any regrets as it would be looked at as just a game and not an original.

Also as a side note - will ths new mini CPU board even be serviceable in the future - I assume not but could be wrong - may be looking a a replacement if anything fails, same with driver board? I know a lot of new PCB's use a surface mount technology that is not serviceable with normal soldering equipment.

Just my stupid thoughts...your opinion may/will vary.

Here is a thought.....so if the value has dropped, who are you going to sell it to? Someone that doesn't know about the remake? Someone that wasn't at Expo or on these boards? Shake their hand as they put cash in your hands and an overpriced MM in the back of their minivan for their family? Their ignorance is your financial savior?

Frankly I am tired of greed (well maybe not on TZ It is getting the best of us. All of us.

Why can't we all be happy that there is an "affordable" way of peeps to get one of the most popular pins?

And yes. I have a MM. I rebuilt the thing from the ground up. Not going anywhere accept to one of my kids (God willing).

Btw, this response is not directed towards the OP. Just me ranting some on the various posts that I have seen on this subject. Money is bad folks. No other way to look at it.

Sigh....

Here is another thought
bears-still-suck-npl.gif

Buy low, sell high - simplest advice ever - but often difficult to do.

Personally I don't agree originals will be priced less than the new repro's. By original, I mean screen printed original decals, original playfield etc etc in top notch condition. There are so many hybrids that are a mixture of reproduction and original. Look at antiques - a true original always sell for more than repro, if it is in great condition.

I don't own MM and am not buying the repro so no horse in this race.

But so many people are coming into the pinball market convinced they can make money right now. Many signals of 'bubble' territory.

I only buy to enjoy - I doubt I will ever make money from pinball but equally I keep an eye on the 'market' as wouldn't want to lose my shirt either!

These MMR topics are not getting placed in the Planetary forum.

Random? Isn't he capitalizing words that should be read as if he were speaking them with EMPHASIS?

it's not THAT confusing guys.

I think the whole "Remake" topic should not have to be pushed to a sub forum. This is a general topic that is having great impact across the entire hobby.

Now that all is said and done... Will you sell me your Grand Lizard for $700?

All HOP topics should have their own subforum.

How do we know that the remakes will be made well?

How do you know they won't? The only facts known thus far is they are being made with same Williams equipment, in the same building, using the same wood company "CCC" and using the same molds for parts. That's a great start thus far.

Time will tell.

Make a new game, who wants a bad humour jokey pin from the 90's when they could make The running man or Resident Evil or Blade Runner. I'd much rather play something I haven't played before. But hey that's me....

Will Raul be there?

Dude, you have brought up Running Man a few times. Seriously, I like SK and Arnold, but I could think of a ton better themed pins then that.

A lot of people say this actually. Those games are really fun as well as "collectible". The prices on some did get so high it became a game of "How can I work a crazy deal to get a big priced pin?" I'm betting a lot of the remake buyers would buy a nice used one for 8k. So, I just don't see them going lower than 8k. Still a really fun and desirable game.

Now, if 2,000 more standards are made and have all been released then we can talk price reductions since they will be everywhere, but until that even happens then nope all speculation.

I would be more interested to see if they could actually ever secure the rights to make any pin with an IP. My guess is it would never be financially viable as the pins are not expensive enough and would have far more startup cost associated in getting all the rights.

I think we will never see anything like TZ or TAF because the machines cost less than 8k now and it would cost more money to make than MM.

That's my question too. Also, will it feel like playing a Data East? They won't be able to reproduce that silky smooth and solid feel of a WMS game.

My prediction is that the MMR will jump up to the level of regular MMs. Then start heading up from there. I don't see values dropping at all. They only made so many originals and flooding the market with reproductions won't change that. Look at BBB as an example.

THIS!

I own a MB that I paid $7900. I love the game and have no plans of selling it. I have always wanted a MM, and plan on purchasing a remake. My thoughts are really simple. I will keep the pins I enjoy, sell the ones I don't enjoy as much, track my expenses so I know what I have in a game, but at the end of the day I will keep the games I truly enjoy. I think most people here feel the same way. Sure, there are some people that will be making money, and I have no problem with that. If you want to purchase a pin, and you can afford it, then buy the pin. If price is an issue, then don't buy it. Always understand that anything can have a zero value, so don't expect to get anything back, and you will be fine. Just my 2 cents.

It's capitalism at it's core. Supply and demand. MM is a high demand, low supply game. So the price is as high as the market will bear.

There has just been a huge supply (or more precisely the very believable promise that a huge supply) made available. So, it's only natural that the price of an original will go down. But, if enough people value the original over the remake, then the price will stay high. If it doesn't matter then the price will drop.

As far as other games, it has certainly been insinuated that other games will be made. So, those prices will likely start to come down. But, that's a pretty far distance out, so I don't expect any sort of market "collapse"...

My 2 cents...
Jaz

I sold everything except Scared Stiff and T2! Getting ready for Predator, possibly Star Trek LE, remake AFM and MB...and maybe Spooky! Fun times!

I plan on selling my Transformers. Keeping Tron and MB. Adding MMrLE and hopefully WOZLE later. Been looking at the Shadow.

I want a MM but would rather have an original.

If PPS is using Mirco playfields, which I would assume they are, I really hope they get him to watch Chris Hutchin's Mirco MM rework.

These details, IMO, will really determine the future value of the original MM.

I do have a SC FT for an original MM if anyone is interested.

I believe I read that CCC will make the pfs and cabinets and they also do Stern's? So I guess you could expect similar quality.

I followed your SC HEP playfield swap with interest. It is awesome. Someone will get a beauty!