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(Topic ID: 67455)

MMR remake and "collateral damage"


By houseofpin

7 years ago



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  • 62 posts
  • 36 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by coasterguy
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 years ago

As many of you know I have long been in the camp that a pinball machine is like MOST CARS and should be a "depreciating asset". Therefore, for me everyone is focusing on the immediate impact on MM but I am focusing on the "collateral damage" to the other titles that are high priced. Personally, I would be surprised if that is not as bad but time will tell.

I truly doubt many are going to step up to the plate for a nice shape MB for over $12K with the strong possibility it can be remade as well. Same goes true for a CC in my opinion.

I have ALWAYS felt that the value in a pin is its FUN FACTOR coupled with its AVAILABILITY. A fun pin with limited availability is PRICED HIGH. I have NEVER nor will I ever believe that a pinball machine is fine art (i.e. a Picasso painting as they can't be recreated). If I am right then the price of a mint MM will be priced less then a re-make. For me, the newer one should be worth more not less since you have no maintainance issues and a warranty so I am going to follow this closely.

My feeling is the prices of the older MM's will be priced closer to TZ's now which is supposedly the #2 machine. That would make sense to me.....so my feeling is ones in good shape will be had in the $5K range and the really nice ones closer to $7K.....

Again, my opinion but more importantly it will set the bar on the other high priced pins. Main reason the most expensive older pin I have purchased (and I am very new to the hobby) was a TZ about 6 months ago fully modded out for $4,850.....that was my "high water mark" and a SS for around $4K. I never bought into this "appreciation forever" and assumed both my SS and TZ (which for me will always be worth the money I paid) were priced fairly and even if they re-make those titles I would keep mine as I feel new titles will depreciate as well so why pay almost double just to have a new pin of the same title....not worth it to me.

So my bet the more I have thought about it......and I just found out about it a couple of days ago so my "knee jerk reaction" was a 10-15 percent hair-cut on high priced pins is that they will sell for LESS then the re-makes in short order unless I am wrong and the older machines are like "fine art" or "classic cars" and I have never bought into that argument so we ALL FINALLY GET TO FIND OUT WHICH CAMP WAS RIGHT. I always bet that I was right and why I always stayed away from these older high priced titles when I built my collection 6 months ago.

#2 7 years ago

This has made me rethink my buying preferences. My AFM is leaving today, the MM is possibly going up for trade or sale as well. I like both of those games but don't like any game enough that is in my personal collection FOREVER if it costs more than $2-3K. lol.

#3 7 years ago

I think with NIB MMs at 8000 the fair market price is between 4 and 5 thousand.
I agree. And it sounds like anybody who wants a new MM can have one.

#4 7 years ago

I think your right, so long as money is to be made making these new games. I played pinball next to a good looking woman in her mid 20's in a midtown Manhattan bar last night. I was on ST and Metallica, she was playing WOZ. Is a small anecdote, but pinball is visible again. Maybe not popular, but visible. And these new sterns look GREAT! Well lit and appealing. And WOZ looks like a freaking spectacle.

I'm in on the MMr, but I think to myself, MMr or Hobbit? Or WOZ? Or MET Premium? Or XMEN pro? Holy cow, what an exciting time for pinball.

And if there are NEW MBs and AFM on location soon? Fun fun fun!

#5 7 years ago

Dave truly it will be interesting but I feel the "train has left the station" and for all the guys on this site that say "hey, value will not be effected" very few if any will step up and pay what they would have before this announcement.

So many are "talking the talk" but I doubt many will "step up to the plate". Your honesty is appreciated. I feel there are so many that bought pins because they felt prices could not drop. Myself, I allocated a certain dollar amount and like EVERYONE even myself would hope they never dropped (yes, I would love them to go up) but I bought them knowing they could go down and still would have made the purchase. That is why for me a good average cost was around $4K or so with a lot of diversification in my collection (mix between old "value titles" which I identified as TZ, FH, SS, HS2 and I500 which probably cost me an average of little under $3K which I was fine with since I knew I was building my collection after prices went way up....only 6 months ago) and some decent value newer titles (Wolverine LE after it got hit hard due to code, SM, IM, TSPP, AC/DC premium)......basically my newer titles I expect to lose an average of $1K-$1.5K per title over the next 5 years.....I am fine with that as I love playing them.....I figure if I lose $200 per year and play 100 games per title that is $2 per play.....sounds expensive but not really as I can play anytime and in the comfort of my home. Most likely it will cost me a $1 per play as my worse case scenario will probably not materialize and I will probably only lose $100 per year per title but even at $200 per title per year it is a CHEAP HOBBY in my mind. However, for those that want to make $100-$200 per year or more per title those days are gone in my opinion so if that was someone's "expectation" they need to find a cheaper hobby as this hobby will start to cost money rather then make money in my opinion.

HOWEVER, it will still be cheap compared to golf, boating, sporting events, etc......but the days of buying a $5K machine knowing you can sell it for at least that in 2-3 years I believe for MOST PINS is a thing of the past.

#6 7 years ago

We will not know anything about this until the new MMR is produced and people play them. Some people will want the original some may prefer the remake.

I think the Original pins will loose value for sure. Not sure how much. If there are problems with the remake then the originals will retain value. If the remake is truly awesome then the originals are going to loose value.

Same with CC and AFM. Not sure why they would make AFM now. I think CC would sell another 1000 or more pins if they have the rights and can finish the code. CC would be in very high demand.

AFM restored are about 10K so I just do not see a huge market for this title. MM and CC were fetching high $$$ and at 8K price is right.

#7 7 years ago

THIS WILL BE GOOD for the HOBBYISTS (which is so many on this board) but bad for the INVESTORS in my opinion. Overall a win for the HOBBY in my opinion !!!

Plus, it will truly show how many people (so many claim they didn't care about pricing) truly love the hobby.

I am laughing to myself as I really believe there are a GOOD PERCENTAGE of guys on here that tell their wives "hey, my hobby doesn't cost us anything".......well boys better come up with a better line when you buy your next pin......more pins for me to buy....hey a MM and MB for under $6K and I am IN !!!! How about a nice AFM for around $5K (and yes if TZ is under $5K it can happen) and I would buy that as well !!!

Personally, I think we get there quicker then people expect we will. How about people with money that have older titles but truly just want the new ones (less maintainance and nicer appearance) they aren't going to care and will sell their old titles at a price the market will pay (yes, even if it is below $6K !!!). People forget most people there cost basis on so many MB's and MM's are under $6K (all you had to do was buy 4-5 years ago so again that will fuel this decline in my opinion on these titles).

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from houseofpin:

I feel the "train has left the station" and for all the guys on this site that say "hey, value will not be effected"

agree but i'm not buying the sentiment that some MMR owners have that every original MM is worth less than an MMR. I valued my sample MM at 11-12K pre announcement, think it's worth between 8500-10K now. I wouldn't sell it for less than the reproduction price before they are out.

Quoted from houseofpin:

I feel there are so many that bought pins because they felt prices could not drop.

I thought prices would drop but never thought my game would do so overnight, basically. I did, however, buy mine at a price that i was willing to keep it forever and not be mad if it depreciated below what i paid.

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from houseofpin:

THIS WILL BE GOOD for the HOBBYISTS (which is so many on this board) but bad for the INVESTORS in my opinion. Overall a win for the HOBBY in my opinion !!!
Plus, it will truly show how many people (so many claim they didn't care about pricing) truly love the hobby.
I am laughing to myself as I really believe there are a GOOD PERCENTAGE of guys on here that tell their wives "hey, my hobby doesn't cost us anything".......well boys better come up with a better line when you buy your next pin......more pins for me to buy....hey a MM and MB for under $6K and I am IN !!!! How about a nice AFM for around $5K (and yes if TZ is under $5K it can happen) and I would buy that as well !!!
Personally, I think we get there quicker then people expect we will. How about people with money that have older titles but truly just want the new ones (less maintainance and nicer appearance) they aren't going to care and will sell their old titles at a price the market will pay (yes, even if it is below $6K !!!). People forget most people there cost basis on so many MB's and MM's are under $6K (all you had to do was buy 4-5 years ago so again that will fuel this decline in my opinion on these titles).

I can say that if MM, MB, CC, and AFM all dipped to under $6k I would gladly buy at least one of them. Of that list I am only not crazy about AFM. Slow build up of my collection though. Really hope that this causes a mass price correction on all pins, not just the remade ones...

#10 7 years ago

Dave.....you will be fine. It is a SMART MAN that gets it and you do. I agree 500% with your assessment and you will be fine.

What you are seeing and you are an owner is what is HAPPENING. So many are truly in denial....my bet is MOST of them would take the old prices (months ago) and get out in a NY MINUTE so there are so many on here that are just in TOTAL DENIAL and trying to come up with reasons why the prices on an MM will not go down. I never bought it and don't buy it now. If they held hoping they would go up they LOST....no different then buying a stock.....you win some and you lose some and truly MOST OF THEM WON based on what they paid even if they take between $8.5K-$10K like you are willing to do.....I would say 90% of them will make money so it is funny to see so many "crying over this"......damn, the housing market collapsed.....it happens....stock collapsed.....even GOLD has corrected from its highs but a MM can't drop 20-30 percent.....I was off this board for a few weeks and when I came back and "caught up" I was dying last night reading the DENIAL so many are in.

Good news is this is a long overdue "market correction".......it happens guys.....some are not going to deal with it well.....I am thinking like I always do how can I take advantage of the pricing when it "over corrects" which it will....always does.....patience is the key. The bottom is not next week it may not be until late next year or the following year who knows.....but under $6K (which is my personal limit) I get interested in MB and MM. Might not get there but I feel it will eventually but probably not until after the title is released assuming it is made well and plays like the original.

#11 7 years ago

Dave.....you will be fine. It is a SMART MAN that gets it and you do. I agree 500% with your assessment and you will be fine.

What you are seeing and you are an owner is what is HAPPENING. So many are truly in denial....my bet is MOST of them would take the old prices (months ago) and get out in a NY MINUTE so there are so many on here that are just in TOTAL DENIAL and trying to come up with reasons why the prices on an MM will not go down. I never bought it and don't buy it now. If they held hoping they would go up they LOST....no different then buying a stock.....you win some and you lose some and truly MOST OF THEM WON based on what they paid even if they take between $8.5K-$10K like you are willing to do.....I would say 90% of them will make money so it is funny to see so many "crying over this"......damn, the housing market collapsed.....it happens....stock collapsed.....even GOLD has corrected from its highs but a MM can't drop 20-30 percent.....I was off this board for a few weeks and when I came back and "caught up" I was dying last night reading the DENIAL so many are in.

Good news is this is a long overdue "market correction".......it happens guys.....some are not going to deal with it well.....I am thinking like I always do how can I take advantage of the pricing when it "over corrects" which it will....always does.....patience is the key. The bottom is not next week it may not be until late next year or the following year who knows.....but under $6K (which is my personal limit) I get interested in MB and MM. Might not get there but I feel it will eventually but probably not until after the title is released assuming it is made well and plays like the original.

#12 7 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

Really hope that this causes a mass price correction on all pins,

Well, I'm doing buying high priced games that are candidates for reproduction, so i have more money to spend on the cheaper games. If all the deep pocketed buyers (i'm not one) decide the a games are too risky, they might pump the prices of the other games even higher. Just a thought.

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from houseofpin:

even if they take between $8.5K-$10K like you are willing to do

i honestly don't know if mine is worth the bottom end of that but honestly don't care. It's worth that to me. If someone offers me more than i feel it's worth *to me* I would get rid of it.

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from houseofpin:

As many of you know I have long been in the camp that a pinball machine is like MOST CARS and should be a "depreciating asset". Therefore, for me everyone is focusing on the immediate impact on MM but I am focusing on the "collateral damage" to the other titles that are high priced. Personally, I would be surprised if that is not as bad but time will tell.
I truly doubt many are going to step up to the plate for a nice shape MB for over $12K with the strong possibility it can be remade as well. Same goes true for a CC in my opinion.
I have ALWAYS felt that the value in a pin is its FUN FACTOR coupled with its AVAILABILITY. A fun pin with limited availability is PRICED HIGH. I have NEVER nor will I ever believe that a pinball machine is fine art (i.e. a Picasso painting as they can't be recreated). If I am right then the price of a mint MM will be priced less then a re-make. For me, the newer one should be worth more not less since you have no maintainance issues and a warranty so I am going to follow this closely.
My feeling is the prices of the older MM's will be priced closer to TZ's now which is supposedly the #2 machine. That would make sense to me.....so my feeling is ones in good shape will be had in the $5K range and the really nice ones closer to $7K.....
Again, my opinion but more importantly it will set the bar on the other high priced pins. Main reason the most expensive older pin I have purchased (and I am very new to the hobby) was a TZ about 6 months ago fully modded out for $4,850.....that was my "high water mark" and a SS for around $4K. I never bought into this "appreciation forever" and assumed both my SS and TZ (which for me will always be worth the money I paid) were priced fairly and even if they re-make those titles I would keep mine as I feel new titles will depreciate as well so why pay almost double just to have a new pin of the same title....not worth it to me.
So my bet the more I have thought about it......and I just found out about it a couple of days ago so my "knee jerk reaction" was a 10-15 percent hair-cut on high priced pins is that they will sell for LESS then the re-makes in short order unless I am wrong and the older machines are like "fine art" or "classic cars" and I have never bought into that argument so we ALL FINALLY GET TO FIND OUT WHICH CAMP WAS RIGHT. I always bet that I was right and why I always stayed away from these older high priced titles when I built my collection 6 months ago.

I think you are 100% correct. Thanks for your thoughts.

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

Well, I'm doing buying high priced games that are candidates for reproduction, so i have more money to spend on the cheaper games. If all the deep pocketed buyers (i'm not one) decide the a games are too risky, they might pump the prices of the other games even higher. Just a thought.

That is also a valid concern.
Another thought of mine is that the people that bought there games as investments see that the era is ending and bail. I think that would correct the prices faster than anything else.

#16 7 years ago

WTF cares. I bought my game to play. I paid $6000 for it 4 years ago. I didn't sell it when it was worth $12000 and Im not going to sell it now. You guys have been whining about the price of mm and now you are crowing because you think the price justifiably got the smackdown. Buy it, don't buy it. Buy a new one, buy a used one. The only people who should give a shit about the price going down are the people who were holding, waiting for the price to go up more to sell them. A lot of you people will find that MM is not the god of pinballs that you think it is. Its fun but how many times do you want to smack that drawbridge.

#17 7 years ago

i agree. point well made. i am done posting about this game unless i put it up for sale or need technical advice.

#18 7 years ago

i'm not a fan of the wall of text or RANDOM capitalized WORDS sprinkling his posts, but i agree that pinball machines should depreciate just like any other new toy. the alternative is not sustainable and leads to a lot of irrationality in the hobby in general.

certainly true collectors items that meet a minimum threshold of rarity and desirability should hold high value that increases over time in general, but right now that bar is set too low in this hobby, what with brand new mass-produced games being hoarded and flipped.

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

i'm not a fan of the wall of text or RANDOM capitalized WORDS sprinkling his posts

Lol I hear that!

#20 7 years ago

Quite a few people have and will contionue to have a mix of old and new pins in their collections. Mine is about split (SS, MB, ToM, BoP are 'old' and METLE, WOZLE, MMLE are new). I like it that way. Many others do too.

You are basing your 'high cost pins price crash' on one pin being remade. If this is the only one, the prices of the others won't drop much, if at all. In fact, they may rise if buyers know they won't be remade!

I do agree the price of MM will drop. How much. Who knows. Remaking MM was only possible because enough people want the title and would shell out $8k and not $15k. I am in that group. Maybe CC gets done. The price delta is similar to MM, but the remake demand wouldn't be nearly as strong. They may sell 500. Maybe there's still a nice profit there? Really nice original or restored MB and AFM are in the $9k to $11k range. Maybe 300 buyers each? That's about it for the possible remakes. No other resale is high enough (outside of BBB or other limited run pins) to get enough buyers unless the price drops far below $8k. Doubtful.

#21 7 years ago

For what it is worth I like to think I have made some good calls in my life (some really bad ones but some really good ones that have offset the bad ones thank god).

I used the same thought process when I buy anything (housing, stocks, pins, etc.). I LOOK FOR VALUE for my dollar. I bought my current house in the middle of the crash (when it was really bad). It was a brand new home that nobody could close on due to financing (the original buyers never moved in due to a divorce and the builder was stuck with a house that was very difficult to sell). So how did I come up with my offer. I first priced the lot (at the very low end of the historical range....it is a beautiful lot on 5 acres) and then I priced the cost to build the house. THEN MY OFFER WAS 10% below that........I knew that if I paid at the bottom end of the historical range for the land and under the COST TO BUILD that someday I would be FINE......simple analysis and it worked out because in time I knew it would (as long as in my area they would someday build again it had to unless materials and labor cost went down and the land really crashed which I felt both were very unlikely). It is all about "stepping back" and thinking rationally rather then always "drinking the kool aid with the masses". Truly, I have always felt the masses are wrong more then they are right.....hey, if that wasn't the case there would be more successful people then unsuccessful. You sell when EVERYONE is buying and buy when either nobody can (2009 was my most active year for buying stocks, housing and so many "toys") and SELL when YOUR BARBER starts giving you stock advice....truly it never fails.....it really is funny.

So that is how I came up with prices I would pay for pins earlier this year. I PAID less then what I felt the game could be made for in every case with the exception of a couple of my newer games (AC/DC premium and IM)......but everything else I felt was not only a GREAT GAME but a GREAT VALUE based on my view of pinball machines.

A CC for $15K for me never made any sense but a SS for $4K or TZ fully modded for $4,850 or nice FH for $3K made sense to me. I even got a nice I500 and HS2 for $1,500 each and I did this at the high priced point for pins knowing I would probably lose something......my point is I wanted to limit what it would cost me to something I felt was REASONABLE and that is what I did so truly I really didn't care much what pins did.

If my TZ goes for $3K someday or less that means I can buy AFM, MM and MB for most likely under $6K and I am fine with that.....but at over $10K my response and always will be NO THANKS !!!

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

That is also a valid concern.

i'm not concerned about it happening as i buy my games for prices i'm willing to live with. Not trying to be snarky.

Quoted from Syco54645:

Another thought of mine is that the people that bought there games as investments see that the era is ending and bail.

that would be awesome. Unfortunately, I think there are enough people who will just target the other games because they aren't in it 100% for investment. They like pinball, just not willing to lose money. Some may argue if that is truly a person who loves pinball or not. lol.

This wasn't a commentary on mm as much as it was on the trends i see in the hobby.

#23 7 years ago

I like pinball
I like to play my machines
I like to pull them apart and clean them
I have A listers, B listers , and C listers
EMs, SS, AN and DMDs

I have been in this hobby for 30 years, if these remakes revive pinball, great. if they destroy some peoples 'investments' , meh

my enjoyment of the hobby is not measured in dollars and cents

#24 7 years ago

Full disclosure:
I own a Medieval Madness (not Huo, not restored, just a decent or better surviving original with original decals and playfield). I would much rather own an all original good condition machine than a fully restored no longer original redecaled or playfield swapped machine. I understand that some machines are too far gone to save and they are good candidates for these replacement parts, but minor wear doesn't qualify in my view to swap original parts to make the machine look perfect. Some parts are only repros now and you must use them to keep your machine functioning, but that's really a different story.

If I had a choice between owning the original and getting a new repro at the 8K mark I would take the original, even at a premium of up to $2K higher, even if not completely perfect as long as it had no major defects.

To me it's an original, it's a classic, while the repro may play the same it's just not the same.

The repro is a great option for many players to now play a great game, but for a player/collector like myself I would prefer the original over a repro.

So if CC is up in the future at 8k I will search out an original if I can get it for that amount rather than a repro if the market drags the price down. Now if the original CC's are still above 10K at that time I would consider the repro from my prospective as a player, but from my collector view I would not be satisfied and would sell it after I tire of it without having any regrets as it would be looked at as just a game and not an original.

Also as a side note - will ths new mini CPU board even be serviceable in the future - I assume not but could be wrong - may be looking a a replacement if anything fails, same with driver board? I know a lot of new PCB's use a surface mount technology that is not serviceable with normal soldering equipment.

Just my stupid thoughts...your opinion may/will vary.

#25 7 years ago

Here is a thought.....so if the value has dropped, who are you going to sell it to? Someone that doesn't know about the remake? Someone that wasn't at Expo or on these boards? Shake their hand as they put cash in your hands and an overpriced MM in the back of their minivan for their family? Their ignorance is your financial savior?

Frankly I am tired of greed (well maybe not on TZ It is getting the best of us. All of us.

Why can't we all be happy that there is an "affordable" way of peeps to get one of the most popular pins?

And yes. I have a MM. I rebuilt the thing from the ground up. Not going anywhere accept to one of my kids (God willing).

Btw, this response is not directed towards the OP. Just me ranting some on the various posts that I have seen on this subject. Money is bad folks. No other way to look at it.

Sigh....

-1
#26 7 years ago
Quoted from iamabearsfan:

Here is a thought.....

Here is another thought
bears-still-suck-npl.gif

#27 7 years ago
Quoted from houseofpin:

As many of you know I have long been in the camp that a pinball machine is like MOST CARS and should be a "depreciating asset". Therefore, for me everyone is focusing on the immediate impact on MM but I am focusing on the "collateral damage" to the other titles that are high priced. Personally, I would be surprised if that is not as bad but time will tell.
I truly doubt many are going to step up to the plate for a nice shape MB for over $12K with the strong possibility it can be remade as well. Same goes true for a CC in my opinion.
I have ALWAYS felt that the value in a pin is its FUN FACTOR coupled with its AVAILABILITY. A fun pin with limited availability is PRICED HIGH. I have NEVER nor will I ever believe that a pinball machine is fine art (i.e. a Picasso painting as they can't be recreated). If I am right then the price of a mint MM will be priced less then a re-make. For me, the newer one should be worth more not less since you have no maintainance issues and a warranty so I am going to follow this closely.
My feeling is the prices of the older MM's will be priced closer to TZ's now which is supposedly the #2 machine. That would make sense to me.....so my feeling is ones in good shape will be had in the $5K range and the really nice ones closer to $7K.....
Again, my opinion but more importantly it will set the bar on the other high priced pins. Main reason the most expensive older pin I have purchased (and I am very new to the hobby) was a TZ about 6 months ago fully modded out for $4,850.....that was my "high water mark" and a SS for around $4K. I never bought into this "appreciation forever" and assumed both my SS and TZ (which for me will always be worth the money I paid) were priced fairly and even if they re-make those titles I would keep mine as I feel new titles will depreciate as well so why pay almost double just to have a new pin of the same title....not worth it to me.
So my bet the more I have thought about it......and I just found out about it a couple of days ago so my "knee jerk reaction" was a 10-15 percent hair-cut on high priced pins is that they will sell for LESS then the re-makes in short order unless I am wrong and the older machines are like "fine art" or "classic cars" and I have never bought into that argument so we ALL FINALLY GET TO FIND OUT WHICH CAMP WAS RIGHT. I always bet that I was right and why I always stayed away from these older high priced titles when I built my collection 6 months ago.

Buy low, sell high - simplest advice ever - but often difficult to do.

Personally I don't agree originals will be priced less than the new repro's. By original, I mean screen printed original decals, original playfield etc etc in top notch condition. There are so many hybrids that are a mixture of reproduction and original. Look at antiques - a true original always sell for more than repro, if it is in great condition.

I don't own MM and am not buying the repro so no horse in this race.

But so many people are coming into the pinball market convinced they can make money right now. Many signals of 'bubble' territory.

I only buy to enjoy - I doubt I will ever make money from pinball but equally I keep an eye on the 'market' as wouldn't want to lose my shirt either!

#28 7 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

I think your right, so long as money is to be made making these new games. I played pinball next to a good looking woman in her mid 20's in a midtown Manhattan bar last night. Pictures or it didn't happen I was on ST and Metallica, she was playing WOZ. Is a small anecdote, but pinball is visible again. Maybe not popular, but visible. And these new sterns look GREAT! Well lit and appealing. And WOZ looks like a freaking spectacle.
I'm in on the MMr, but I think to myself, MMr or Hobbit? Or WOZ? Or MET Premium? Or XMEN pro? Holy cow, what an exciting time for pinball.
And if there are NEW MBs and AFM on location soon? Fun fun fun!

#29 7 years ago

These MMR topics are not getting placed in the Planetary forum.

#30 7 years ago
Quoted from rockotaco1:

Lol I hear that!

Random? Isn't he capitalizing words that should be read as if he were speaking them with EMPHASIS?

it's not THAT confusing guys.

#31 7 years ago

I think the whole "Remake" topic should not have to be pushed to a sub forum. This is a general topic that is having great impact across the entire hobby.

#32 7 years ago

Now that all is said and done... Will you sell me your Grand Lizard for $700?

#33 7 years ago
Quoted from iamabearsfan:

I think the whole "Remake" topic should not have to be pushed to a sub forum. This is a general topic that is having great impact across the entire hobby.

All HOP topics should have their own subforum.

#34 7 years ago

How do we know that the remakes will be made well?

#35 7 years ago
Quoted from TZBen:

How do we know that the remakes will be made well?

How do you know they won't? The only facts known thus far is they are being made with same Williams equipment, in the same building, using the same wood company "CCC" and using the same molds for parts. That's a great start thus far.

#36 7 years ago
Quoted from TZBen:

How do we know that the remakes will be made well?

Time will tell.

#37 7 years ago

Make a new game, who wants a bad humour jokey pin from the 90's when they could make The running man or Resident Evil or Blade Runner. I'd much rather play something I haven't played before. But hey that's me....

#38 7 years ago

Will Raul be there?

#39 7 years ago
Quoted from zod:

Make a new game, who wants a bad humour joke from the 90's when they could make The running man or Resident Evil or Blade Runner. I'd much rather play something I haven't played before. But hey that's me....

Dude, you have brought up Running Man a few times. Seriously, I like SK and Arnold, but I could think of a ton better themed pins then that.

#40 7 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

I can say that if MM, MB, CC, and AFM all dipped to under $6k I would gladly buy at least one of them. Of that list I am only not crazy about AFM. Slow build up of my collection though. Really hope that this causes a mass price correction on all pins, not just the remade ones...

A lot of people say this actually. Those games are really fun as well as "collectible". The prices on some did get so high it became a game of "How can I work a crazy deal to get a big priced pin?" I'm betting a lot of the remake buyers would buy a nice used one for 8k. So, I just don't see them going lower than 8k. Still a really fun and desirable game.

Now, if 2,000 more standards are made and have all been released then we can talk price reductions since they will be everywhere, but until that even happens then nope all speculation.

#41 7 years ago

I would be more interested to see if they could actually ever secure the rights to make any pin with an IP. My guess is it would never be financially viable as the pins are not expensive enough and would have far more startup cost associated in getting all the rights.

I think we will never see anything like TZ or TAF because the machines cost less than 8k now and it would cost more money to make than MM.

#42 7 years ago
Quoted from TZBen:

How do we know that the remakes will be made well?

That's my question too. Also, will it feel like playing a Data East? They won't be able to reproduce that silky smooth and solid feel of a WMS game.

My prediction is that the MMR will jump up to the level of regular MMs. Then start heading up from there. I don't see values dropping at all. They only made so many originals and flooding the market with reproductions won't change that. Look at BBB as an example.

#43 7 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

MMr or Hobbit? Or WOZ? Or MET Premium? Or XMEN pro? Holy cow, what an exciting time for pinball.

THIS!

#44 7 years ago

I own a MB that I paid $7900. I love the game and have no plans of selling it. I have always wanted a MM, and plan on purchasing a remake. My thoughts are really simple. I will keep the pins I enjoy, sell the ones I don't enjoy as much, track my expenses so I know what I have in a game, but at the end of the day I will keep the games I truly enjoy. I think most people here feel the same way. Sure, there are some people that will be making money, and I have no problem with that. If you want to purchase a pin, and you can afford it, then buy the pin. If price is an issue, then don't buy it. Always understand that anything can have a zero value, so don't expect to get anything back, and you will be fine. Just my 2 cents.

#45 7 years ago

It's capitalism at it's core. Supply and demand. MM is a high demand, low supply game. So the price is as high as the market will bear.

There has just been a huge supply (or more precisely the very believable promise that a huge supply) made available. So, it's only natural that the price of an original will go down. But, if enough people value the original over the remake, then the price will stay high. If it doesn't matter then the price will drop.

As far as other games, it has certainly been insinuated that other games will be made. So, those prices will likely start to come down. But, that's a pretty far distance out, so I don't expect any sort of market "collapse"...

My 2 cents...
Jaz

#46 7 years ago

I sold everything except Scared Stiff and T2! Getting ready for Predator, possibly Star Trek LE, remake AFM and MB...and maybe Spooky! Fun times!

#47 7 years ago

I plan on selling my Transformers. Keeping Tron and MB. Adding MMrLE and hopefully WOZLE later. Been looking at the Shadow.

-1
#48 7 years ago

I want a MM but would rather have an original.

If PPS is using Mirco playfields, which I would assume they are, I really hope they get him to watch Chris Hutchin's Mirco MM rework.

These details, IMO, will really determine the future value of the original MM.

I do have a SC FT for an original MM if anyone is interested.

#49 7 years ago

Wow watching Net Flix.....opened up at $389 after they announced earnings last night now under $340.......big reversal.....got to feel for the guys who bought the HYPE at the open. My point who the HE** really knows. Netflix might go to 1,000 or might go back under $100. MM might go to $20K in 2 years or might go back under $5K.

My biggest point was that most of us have enough things to watch (did our house go up, did our stocks go up, where are CD rates at, etc.)......I sure never think much if my cars, pins or boats are going up.....I just buy them assuming they will go down. From my view they are SUPPOSE to go down they give me tons of enjoyment. I do expect Real Estate over time to go up and my stock portfolio over time to go up and if it doesn't to me THAT SU**** because they are INVESTMENTS...period.

Just enjoy the pins we have. In fact, I am going to go downstairs shortly and play some TZ as I just feel like having talking Tina tell me that I won an extra ball !!!! Maybe I will bang my Iron Monger a few times after that......while I listen to my juke box.....and enjoy my neon signs and then maybe shoot some pool......if everyone of those assets depreciate so be it.....they are suppose to.....just let housing keep going up and stocks keep rising and truly who cares about the $1K-$2K I lose on those assets each year......will always be the cheapest hobby I ever had !!!

THANKS TO EVERYONE who has posted. Who knows who will be right but my MAJOR POINT was that I feel you will also see collateral damage to other titles just on the FEAR THEY WILL BE REPRODUCED !!!! I just don't see anyone stepping up to buy a HEP restored CC for over $15K if they feel there is a chance a new remade one might be $8K !!!! The days of a mint HUO MB going for over $12K are probably gone for now as well...

Time to grab some lunch and play some pin. Most of us truly don't have any "real problems" and 90% of the world would kill for MOST OF OUR PROBLEMS.....so all of us need to keep that in mind. Doubt anybody living in the ghettos of NY are going to cry for someone who just lost a $4K "paper gain" on a MM they own outright.

#50 7 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

I want a MM but would rather have an original.
If PPS is using Mirco playfields, which I would assume they are, I really hope they get him to watch Chris Hutchin's Mirco MM rework.
These details, IMO, will really determine the future value of the original MM.
I do have a SC FT for an original MM if anyone is interested.

I believe I read that CCC will make the pfs and cabinets and they also do Stern's? So I guess you could expect similar quality.

I followed your SC HEP playfield swap with interest. It is awesome. Someone will get a beauty!

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