(Topic ID: 107062)

MMR refund... Refund received 11/10/14

By edwinpblue

7 years ago

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  • 468 posts
  • 116 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by labnip
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders


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#27 7 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Whay aren't all of you just DEMANDING your deposits back if you actually want out?
They are in breach of contract and there are consumer protection laws that are in place just for this very example (i.e. missed promises of deadlines, changed product, lack of clearly and publicly posted pre-order policy > note the policy does not mean jackshit once they have breached for changing the expected product and missed delivery).
There is a reason you have not seen PPS of any of the distributors comment on the above fact and that is because they know it is true and are scared of what happens.
Keep in mind that many distributors HAVE given back full refunds so this is obviously on an individual basis.
I suggest if you want out then you had better do it sooner rather than later.
If you also want to play along with their stupid BS games about "you can't get out untill you sell your spot" then you should ask them how many people are in front of you to get out?

If January 1st 2015 comes around and the buyer didn't receive MMR then maybe they have a chance. The expectation was that the games would be delivered before the end of this year. I'm not sure where you are coming up with your information.

#37 7 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Quoted for truth. Rick was the Belle of the Ball only a year ago, with a running machine shown... and here we are.

They did not have a machine at Expo 2013 BTW.

I watched the PPS seminar from expo this year and it was tough to watch. I didn't have a problem with Rick's announcements, but the crowd seemed like they wanted to have him hanged.

Are people that impatient that they want to go through all sorts of trouble to cancel a preorder only to preorder another machine with probably more unknowns than MMR? Meaning another pin that will take even longer to be delivered to you?

I really don't care what people do with their money, but it's ridiculous to me.

It's going to suck for those who back out and have a change of heart once MMR releases and then they gotta go through more trouble to get one (cancel on whatever other machine they preorder on).

Just seems like people either like to cause problems for themselves or they can't make a decision and stick with it.

#44 7 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

Actually, the more I learn about that MMr machine, the less I like it.
And, I think everyone has recourse for their money back, as the terms of the deal were changed after the "no refund" window with the "no coin mech" fiasco.
A coin operated machine with no way to accept a coin? Who ever heard of such a thing???

I should note, I'm specifically talking about people getting out of one preorder (MMR) to get in on another. If you simply fell out of love with MMR NP. But it seems like some are upset just because of delays. We are not past the projected shipping times so that's the only reason I asked.

If that's the case I think it would be insane to get out of the MMR preorder and assume everything will run smoothly with any other preorder.

#84 7 years ago

If MMR is still delivered within the expected timeframe who cares if other "behind the scenes" things were delayed? Think of the people who preordered WOZ and how long they waited. To me it seems like grasping for excuses to get out of the preorder. I don't know why I'm wasting time posting about this. I guess I am baffled though considering PPS has 2 more months to get the machines out in time. I understand that's not a lot of time, but we technically aren't past the expected delivery timeframe.

Again if you like TBL, WOOLY, etc... better that's fine, but it's not PPS's fault you changed your mind. If they can deliver your MMR before 2015 I wouldn't provide any refunds if I was them. Just being honest.

Hwawonyu took the loss like a man because he changed his mind. That's the way it should be handled for anyone who changed their mind.

#107 7 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Wish-washy is not the correct term. I would say front runners is more accurate. If you follow most new companies or just new games this always happens. Everyone is all in because this is the best and they must have it. A year later it is not out yet and several new things are the best and they must have it. MM is still the top ranked game on Pinside so the majority still loves the game and no new games have come close to dethroning the top 4. People still love these games and I think buyers will be happy with MMR. Some people just have to be front runners, doesn't mean they are getting the best. Just means they always have a ton tied up in preorders. We are very likely be having the same discussion this time next year about all of the games there were home runs at this years expo.

Very well put. I guess what I was trying to say is if people are canceling because MMR isn't delivered yet, they will get involved in a neverending cycle where WOOLY is not delivered next year and then Barbie's Horsey Pinball Adventures is announced next year at expo 15 they will want to cancel WOOLY preorder and go with Barbie. In these scenarios they are never getting to play a new game. It's insanity to me.

MMR will be awesome. In the more recent years of my life I've been horrible with making purchase decisions. I research things forever and eventually just say no because I'm just not comfortable moving forward. MMR for me is a huge purchase at it's price. I first read about it on the porcelain throne a few weeks after the announcement (I took a few month break from pinball). Couldn't believe what I was reading and was worried I wouldn't be able to get one. Anyway I was in as soon as there was an opening. I never had second thoughts. I hope to be blown away, but even if not it's my first and maybe last NIB experience. The experience for me will be worth it.

I want to play MM in my home. People taking chances with these new $8K machines is something I simply could never do. I don't care how flashy they are. Are they fun? Do they have staying power?

Plus I just don't have that kind of money to do this often.

#108 7 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I still think MMr's going to be awesome

Beat me just by a few minutes, absolutely agree! Bring it on!

#113 7 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

If you committed to it ,commit ,if you are not in "shut the front door

Why did people replace STFU with this? Doesn't make sense to me.

#169 7 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Back up ! Hardware tell me more about the Barbie pony edition!

I really let that slip without thinking.

#174 7 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

I'm not thrilled with the modern day thinking that profanity is cool and the norm. I have a teenage son with a foul mouth,I'm trying to lead by example.

I absolutely agree that profanity every other word is simply not necessary.

Sell the four umbrellas! Shave the furry unicorn!

Door starts with a D.

It's truly not important, but whoever made that up was lazy.

#200 7 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

Did you happen to see the DP TBL sales pitch at Expo ?

Yepper. Thought the machine looked awesome, but the language instantly turned me off. Wow! You're a big tough guy cause you cuss on stage. lol

#302 7 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

The cursing on stage was totally inline with the cursing used in the movie. Maybe you have not seen the movie yet?
» YouTube video
If you want a PG rated bowling themed pin, check out 300, Strikes & Spares, or Pin-up.

Seen it in the theatre, it was tough to find where I live. Guessing it was only limited theaters everywhere. No big deal. I don't have the cleanest mouth in the world, but from a business it just looked lame to me.

This is what happens when you..... Best line in the movie.

#328 7 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

We've not really approached many of the other resellers who did not get any LE's who want MMRs (Stds), as no point in doing that until the LE's are thru. So, we have many resellers who want to bulk order MMR Stds, but we just don't need to go there at this time as that will be a discussion for early next year. The market is growing by all accounts, and we see roughly the planned output we always had seen, despite all of the ups and downs. Of course we are disappointed that it's not out as that disappoints our customers - but it is what it is, and a new MMR with updated sound, display, new non-worn parts, new playfield, new cabinet, etc, upgraded lighting, shaker motor, etc is still attractive alternative to a used game without most of those features. And yes, I fully expect that purists want an original 'new' MM, but finding them for $8K will be a little bit of a challenge, but both will co-exist as the customers we sell to are the former.

As I like to say, Hurry Up Take Your Time!

#345 7 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I just dont jerk him off for everything he says. I also call complete BS on what he is saying.
Why would he not be not be approaching resellers (aren't they distributors BTW? when do you start calling your distributors resellers? WTF?) to sell then whatever game they want? Complete BS! Also, no mention of a "waitlist" for LEs as is obviously does not exist or everyone whom wants a refund would be getting their $$$ back immediately. You shoudl al be way nire concerned that now the story changes for the first time and he admits the LEs are not done. Then he claims this was expect from the start??? WTH? gulible much?
You are oblivious if you think the market for MMR is growing and that is evidenced just from those that have bailed on pinside in the past week.
He then tries to talk about all the "great things" and neglects to even mention the issues (wrong swithces, non-pitched games. frame tearing, etc...) It is starting to sound like the scammers that sell you a turd but only up sell the positives without acknowledging the issues.
Lastly he tries to say that buying an original at 8k is a challenge when he damn well knows they are easily found currently (probably not in the future when people re-evaluate the crap he is pushing and decide they want the real thing)
quoted for posterity below

Why are you so worked up? That's a serious question.

If you are not in on the preorder why waste time on this?

Rick did address the issues on the PPS forum today.

I must be the perfect customer as I have not had a single worry, yet (key word).

I committed to purchasing MMR and I'm sticking with it. If it gets pushed past 1st qtr 2015 then I might have a reason to be disappointed.

Anyway I just didn't understand the time and energy you waste on this. If it's a dumb answer then I know to add you to the blocked list.

#358 7 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

Great post! Does the politician care to address my initial question? Should refunds be provided?

Technically it's passed the locked in date. You're going to have to work harder to get your deposit back in my opinion. Maybe PM Rick on the PPS forum?

He's not going to provide a refund out of the kindness of his heart and especially not publicly on this forum of all places.

#373 7 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Serious answer...
I am not worked up about this at all. This is an online forum for discussing pinball. No more, no less.
That said, I do not consider it wasted time or energy to hang out and talk pinball with other pinheads. I genuinely care about OUR hobby and by and large it is very evident to me that some companies are more concerned with taking as much as they possibly can from my fellow pinheads while doing nothing for the hobby itself. I can read through all the BS pretty clear and hope a few others wake up and realize whom they are tossing money at.
Would you buy a game from a guy that only points out the highlights and glosses over all the issues?
Serious question?

You care about the hobby more than I do I guess.

I'm in on MMR if that answers your question.

In my eyes any question or concern of mine have been addressed.

Thanks to others for speaking up. I don't feel alone at least.

#400 7 years ago
Quoted from wolfy:

Of course its not sold out. People have been bailing for many months for sure. Buyers remorse starting setting in for some people the day they put their deposit down . $8,000 +

Agreed. Some people could afford $1,000 down hoping they'd be able to gather the rest before release. I'm sure some people decided it just wasn't worth spending that kind of money in the long run and I'm sure some couldn't get the money together.

#402 7 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

The locked in date doesn't apply in a court of law. If the game is sold out AND there is a waiting list then there is no loss to the MMR people if refunds were issued. For example I could sign away my first born; that act doesn't mean that I need to turn over my oldest. A parking garage can put up a tiny sign saying they aren't resoonsible for theft then use that sign as a get out of jail free card when their employee steals from parked cars. I didn't agree to any terms with MMR. I sent a $1000 check as a down payment. That's it. No contract and no terms. Obviously filing suit against MMR is borderline unrealistic. Perhaps a class action could be filed but that still seems extreme. I (we) are giving guys like Rick and Jack the chance to do the right thing. The honorable thing. Unless they can show cause on there end that a refund would be harmful to them then refunds should be offered to those who ask. They are on record as saying the game is sold out with a waiting list; no harm would come to them if they issue refunds. I have emailed and heard nothing. Again will the powers that be involved with MMR issue a refund of my $1000? Jack? Rick? Do any of these people have honor? Do they operate within the same rules that they expect the rest of us to operate under?

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to argue against you. I simply feel it's going to be a pain to get a deposit refunded right now. Maybe once games are shipping it will be a different story. What do I know? Nothing much. Except we were told deposits are non refundable.

#403 7 years ago
Quoted from vex:

i cancelled my order many months ago for the simple reason i would rather have my capitol deployed for a new machine. tbl or th were on my shopping list as alternatives. tbl has my money now and it is only 500$ more then mmre and i get the chrome and carpet.
i might buy mmre used down the road, but for 8k i just didn't see the value anymore. imo of course. i am sure the game will be great but i just want something fresh and exciting and that is tbl for me.

That's awesome!

Please note I did type "some people" I know it's not covering every situation by any means.

I hope MMR is LE is not sold out and also hope they don't make standards. Would be better for me in the long run god forbid I'd have to sell the thing. I learned early on in this hobby you can't ever say you will keep a machine forever. In reality I'd expect and accept losing $2,000 after 1 year of ownership, but it also won't be exciting to lose that kind of money.

To me Rick doesn't have to be perfect in order for me to purchase from him. He just has to be a little bit better than all of those turds who were price gouging us with routed beat to hell machines.

And people can say Rick is now price gouging, but the rude awakening is that PPS is not going to do machines for less than $8,000. I'm sorry, it won't happen. If they would considering doing machines at $6,000 they would think they would be best adding 25% onto the cost in order to make dealing with all the crybabies worth all of the trouble.

Maybe MMR truly will be limited if all of these people are canceling.

#415 7 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

I'm in...I mean, it's a MM! I know what I'm getting, and what I'm getting is one of the top 3 pins of all time NIB!! To me it's a keeper and going to be worth it.

You're the man. its going to be awesome.

I feel childish but when I seen that username with the word teekee in it I LOL'd for real.

#439 7 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

The email suggested payment will come and I am taking it in good faith; I would say thanksgiving is a reasonable amount of time for this to happen. That's almost 5 weeks. I will post when I do receive my refund.

Good for you man. It would suck for anyone to lose a deposit for any reason. Sorry to see you leave though.

2 weeks later
#451 6 years ago
Quoted from Wariodolby:

In the last 48 hours when was the exact moment you regretted everything and want to reserve it again ?

That would be an interesting twist.

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