Quoted from Skypilot:

Don't forget they should have limited production to 1000 games.
Had they done that I do not feel we would be having half these conversations now

Quoted from scott_freeman:

The cursing on stage was totally inline with the cursing used in the movie. Maybe you have not seen the movie yet?
» YouTube video
If you want a PG rated bowling themed pin, check out 300, Strikes & Spares, or Pin-up.

Quoted from Rarehero:

LE doesn't mean anything anymore, unless it's 500 or less. MMrLE and MMr Standard are the same game...the way I see it, the trim/shaker/thicker cab bottom are a bonus for pre-ordering/having faith in the company - just like Lebowski pre-orders get chrome trim & the rug. Didn't rub me the wrong way - for the same price I'm getting extra stuff!

Quoted from Rarehero:

Sure, they uber-OCD collectors will look closely at the art and maybe find a line that's a millimeter thicker than it used to be...it's been almost 20 years, it's not going to be 1 - but that's not the point.

Quoted from Skins:

And that's why I haven't ordered one yet. No need to either since there isn't a run number limit.

Quoted from pezpunk:

I still don't get why this is such a big deal to people. since when has ANY pinball from say JJP or Stern had a limited run number? ALL manufacturers as far as I know only limit the LE version of their games. why is this only a sticking point for PPS?

Quoted from gweempose:

For the most part, I don't think the mass demand for refunds was caused by a disappointment in the game itself. Most people I've talked to seem to be happy with how MMr turned out. What happened is that the pinball climate changed tremendously since last Expo where everybody was tripping over each other to get it on the pre-order. Pinball prices have since declined, and there are also a bunch of impressive boutique titles that are now vying for people's hard earned cash. On top of that, people have money tied up in pricey Stern games like ST, Mustang and TWD.
Ironically, it was MMr that sparked the whole decline in prices. Once the price of original MM's started to go down, it set off a domino effect on the whole market. PPS also really hurt themselves by not having the game ready on time. If they had been able to adhere to the original timeline, they wouldn't be in this mess.

Quoted from Skypilot:

Silly Pinballhog, This is Pinside 10% factual information 90% Bunk, Hooyee ,BS, Speculative horse crap, Emotional vomit, Poppycock, Hearsay, and POOH.

Not to be confused with this guy.

untitled-880.png 40 KB

Quoted from Rarehero:

LE doesn't mean anything anymore

Quoted from labnip:

in other words...
Better than TV.

Quoted from Skypilot:

(I bought a STLE )

Quoted from jalpert:

MMR is using the same parts and processes that HEP would use to restore a game. So, if we can't compare it to a 1990's MM, I guess we'll have to compare it to a HEP MM then.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Are you seriously trying to say that MMr will even be close to what HEP does?

Quoted from labnip:

blame it on the rain....

Quoted from Rush1169:

let's say when the dust settles there are 900 MMrLEs sold on preorder.

Quoted from TigerLaw:

This part of your post was awesome. I don't see how this point could be challenged reasonably.

This part of your post was not awesome. There has been innovation (granted, I think RFM was more advanced than any game produced by Stern) over the past fifteen years. Color changing LED's is big, deeper code and rule sets is big (compare the rules on BSD or DW to LOTRs or WOZ...), there are other improvements we have all seen especially the last couple of years.

Quoted from jalpert:

I have access to recent MM HEP restore, I'll be sure and let you know.

Quoted from Rush1169:

I wonder. . .let's say when the dust settles there are 900 MMrLEs sold on preorder. Will they make 1,000? If so, will they then make a number of 'standards'?
Maybe they will make 1,000 LEs (as distributors are probably stuck with their allotment), but 100 remain with distributors after preorders are shipped. Will they make standards?
There doesn't seem to be a waitlist for LEs. . .

Quoted from jalpert:

They sold a thousand (to distributors), they will make a thousand.

Quoted from gweempose:

For the most part, I don't think the mass demand for refunds was caused by a disappointment in the game itself. Most people I've talked to seem to be happy with how MMr turned out. What happened is that the pinball climate changed tremendously since last Expo where everybody was tripping over each other to get it on the pre-order. Pinball prices have since declined, and there are also a bunch of impressive boutique titles that are now vying for people's hard earned cash. On top of that, people have money tied up in pricey Stern games like ST, Mustang and TWD.
Ironically, it was MMr that sparked the whole decline in prices. Once the price of original MM's started to go down, it set off a domino effect on the whole market. PPS also really hurt themselves by not having the game ready on time. If they had been able to adhere to the original timeline, they wouldn't be in this mess.

Quoted from Rush1169:

I wonder. . .let's say when the dust settles there are 900 MMrLEs sold on preorder. Will they make 1,000? If so, will they then make a number of 'standards'?
Maybe they will make 1,000 LEs (as distributors are probably stuck with their allotment), but 100 remain with distributors after preorders are shipped. Will they make standards?
There doesn't seem to be a waitlist for LEs. . .

Quoted from PPS:

We've not really approached many of the other resellers who did not get any LE's who want MMRs (Stds), as no point in doing that until the LE's are thru. So, we have many resellers who want to bulk order MMR Stds, but we just don't need to go there at this time as that will be a discussion for early next year. The market is growing by all accounts, and we see roughly the planned output we always had seen, despite all of the ups and downs. Of course we are disappointed that it's not out as that disappoints our customers - but it is what it is, and a new MMR with updated sound, display, new non-worn parts, new playfield, new cabinet, etc, upgraded lighting, shaker motor, etc is still attractive alternative to a used game without most of those features. And yes, I fully expect that purists want an original 'new' MM, but finding them for $8K will be a little bit of a challenge, but both will co-exist as the customers we sell to are the former.
rick

Quoted from PPS:

We've not really approached many of the other resellers who did not get any LE's who want MMRs (Stds), as no point in doing that until the LE's are thru. So, we have many resellers who want to bulk order MMR Stds, but we just don't need to go there at this time as that will be a discussion for early next year. The market is growing by all accounts, and we see roughly the planned output we always had seen, despite all of the ups and downs. Of course we are disappointed that it's not out as that disappoints our customers - but it is what it is, and a new MMR with updated sound, display, new non-worn parts, new playfield, new cabinet, etc, upgraded lighting, shaker motor, etc is still attractive alternative to a used game without most of those features. And yes, I fully expect that purists want an original 'new' MM, but finding them for $8K will be a little bit of a challenge, but both will co-exist as the customers we sell to are the former.
rick

Quoted from PPS:

We've not really approached many of the other resellers who did not get any LE's who want MMRs (Stds), as no point in doing that until the LE's are thru. So, we have many resellers who want to bulk order MMR Stds, but we just don't need to go there at this time as that will be a discussion for early next year. The market is growing by all accounts, and we see roughly the planned output we always had seen, despite all of the ups and downs. Of course we are disappointed that it's not out as that disappoints our customers - but it is what it is, and a new MMR with updated sound, display, new non-worn parts, new playfield, new cabinet, etc, upgraded lighting, shaker motor, etc is still attractive alternative to a used game without most of those features. And yes, I fully expect that purists want an original 'new' MM, but finding them for $8K will be a little bit of a challenge, but both will co-exist as the customers we sell to are the former.
rick

Quoted from QuarterGrabber:

I dropped out earlier this week and had my $1000 deposit switched to TWDLE no problem, no questions asked.

Quoted from Pimp77:

Of all the machines to switch to...why TWDLE???

Quoted from Pimp77:

Of all the machines to switch to...why TWDLE???

Quoted from ChadH:

I'm guessing because it is here and now... not some distant hope.

Quoted from Pimp77:

Of all the machines to switch to...why TWDLE???

Quoted from Erik:

in before the thread eject!

Quoted from Whysnow:

11 thumbs up and this is all I see. I expect pezpunk to thumbs down this in 2 seconds...

Thumbs up wanker.jpg 11 KB

Quoted from pezpunk:

It just highlights how disinterested you are in honest discourse. No matter what Rick says, you are going to attack him for it. Admit it.

Quoted from PPS:

We've not really approached many of the other resellers who did not get any LE's who want MMRs (Stds), as no point in doing that until the LE's are thru. So, we have many resellers who want to bulk order MMR Stds, but we just don't need to go there at this time as that will be a discussion for early next year. The market is growing by all accounts, and we see roughly the planned output we always had seen, despite all of the ups and downs. Of course we are disappointed that it's not out as that disappoints our customers - but it is what it is, and a new MMR with updated sound, display, new non-worn parts, new playfield, new cabinet, etc, upgraded lighting, shaker motor, etc is still attractive alternative to a used game without most of those features. And yes, I fully expect that purists want an original 'new' MM, but finding them for $8K will be a little bit of a challenge, but both will co-exist as the customers we sell to are the former.
rick

Quoted from ZenTron:

Coming Spring '15 to FX "The Pinball Attorney" watch the bubble burst..

Quoted from Whysnow:

I just dont jerk him off for everything he says.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I just dont jerk him off for everything he says. I also call complete BS on what he is saying.
Why would he not be not be approaching resellers (aren't they distributors BTW? when do you start calling your distributors resellers? WTF?) to sell then whatever game they want? Complete BS! Also, no mention of a "waitlist" for LEs as is obviously does not exist or everyone whom wants a refund would be getting their $$$ back immediately. You shoudl al be way nire concerned that now the story changes for the first time and he admits the LEs are not done. Then he claims this was expect from the start??? WTH? gulible much?
You are oblivious if you think the market for MMR is growing and that is evidenced just from those that have bailed on pinside in the past week.
He then tries to talk about all the "great things" and neglects to even mention the issues (wrong swithces, non-pitched games. frame tearing, etc...) It is starting to sound like the scammers that sell you a turd but only up sell the positives without acknowledging the issues.
Lastly he tries to say that buying an original at 8k is a challenge when he damn well knows they are easily found currently (probably not in the future when people re-evaluate the crap he is pushing and decide they want the real thing)
quoted for posterity below

Quoted from QuarterGrabber:

I laughed my butt off when I read this because it is true
I don't want to name names but there are two people that are glued to ricks ass at all times.

Quoted from hardware:

Why are you so worked up? That's a serious question.

Anyway I just didn't understand the time and energy you waste on this. If it's a dumb answer then I know to add you to the blocked list.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Serious answer...
I am not worked up about this at all. This is an online forum for discussing pinball. No more, no less.
That said, I do not consider it wasted time or energy to hang out and talk pinball with other pinheads. I genuinely care about OUR hobby and by and large it is very evident to me that some companies are more concerned with taking as much as they possibly can from my fellow pinheads while doing nothing for the hobby itself. I can read through all the BS pretty clear and hope a few others wake up and realize whom they are tossing money at.
Would you buy a game from a guy that only points out the highlights and glosses over all the issues?
Serious question?