No way CC is remade before AFM or MB.

I doubt it is popular enough (without CCC guarantee) to remake before some other classic titles (like FH).

PPS hasn't even announced anything beyond MMR, but assume one per year and there's quite a way to go before a CC remake is even a remote possibility.

(If I had even imagined that CC code would/could have been completed, I would have bought one on closeout. But, like many, I was excited about Pinball 2000 and I only had $ to buy one or the other at the time.)

PPS has a license to the original code, but no license to improve or modify it to provide any function other than support hardware functional equalivalency to allow a remake to play the same as an original.

At Expo Rick pretty much shot down that any CC remake would support CCC. Someone may do it in the event that CC is remade, but it won't be PPS.

I'd like a CC or a remake myself someday, but can't fathom why CC would be done before AFM and/or MB.

I didn't hear anything at Expo that would lead me to that conclusion.

Because then it wouldn't be limited.

If you aren't even a buyer, why do you care? There are only 1000 LEs because that's what Rick and Matt decided there would be. If anyone thinks the SE is 'a lesser product' or not worth the price, they won't (or shouldn't) buy it.

What PPS is doing for the pinball community is wonderful. I'm getting really tired of reading posts complaining about what wasn't done rather than applauding what was done. You don't like that the game is $8k? Don't buy it. You really want an LE? Get on a wait list now or wait and buy an HUO one down the line.

Please take the complaints and hijacks to some other thread.

This one is for PPS to provide info about the remake, not for people to rehash all the stuff in the other thirty gazillion MMR threads.

Then that's two I know of.

I'll bet mine has fewer plays on it ...

Q). What did the wife say to the husband who wanted both a WOZ and a Hobbit?

A) Fine, as long as I get to play them first and don't get Jersey Jacked by some guy named Lloyd.

I added a smiley to my joke in response to an email. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Lloyd, in case anyone thought otherwise.

In for Wizard Blocks kit, assuming you are allowed to "remake" a game that was never formally produced.

Also in for MB, BBB and AFM remakes - but I need a schedule so I can get my wife on board with the idea of another $20k+ for NIB pins.

I did the website and should still have all the sound files plus some that were never put up. But I'd be very surprised I have anything PPS doesn't.

Vanna, can I buy an "A" please?

To whomever is in charge - please give Rick his way.

Wait -- Rick is in charge .... Ah! More perks to come !!

Or free on an LE?

I am interested in remakes of AFM and a CCC compatible CC.

Don't care too much about matching numbers, because the number I picked for MMR really only has significance to me from an MM standpoint (97, the year of the original release), but I would much prefer to do away with plaque numbers after MMR (and WOZ/TH/STLE).

I think the whole LE thing has gotten a bit silly. If a manufacturer is going to make a "bling" or extra feature version for the home/collector market, fine. But don't have more than two models - one for a base/operator and one for a home user/collector.

Nope. Just common sense by both PPS and Stern. Win-Win for both parties.

Well, that certainly puts this recent part of the thread in a entirely different light ...

Yeah, but with the original MM, you only get two trolls. With MMR, you get dozens ...

No way Stern would have agreed to the PPS deal if this were the case. Stern is probably going to skip the summer title to manufacturer MMR, but no way would they skip the fall title too.

If I read the other thread correctly, the MMR LEs are also apparently coming with gift certificates to Taco Bell...

The original default was family mode. A subsequent revision added the explicit call out (I only remember one) and a setting for family mode.

Not really. For me, it came down to the "warranty only for the original purchaser" policy. My brother decided he could just come play my Medieval instead of having his own and decided a few weeks ago he just didn't want to pony up the money.

I probably could have resold the game a few times (at cost), but every time the issue was warranty coverage. I waited until (almost) the last possible day to cancel and even volunteered to handle warranty clams to see if I could find someone interested in an MMR. Almost had a great local trade. But in the end, concern about warranty coverage and/or hassles derailed that too.

Yup - invisible coin mechs.

Not having coin mechs in a brand new game is just wrong.

Either ship with Standard US mechs or at least give buyers the option (or "store credit") to have mechs shipped separately. I'm sure I can probably find some to put in the game, but I shouldn't have to.

Why would it come with pinballs? Most of the sales will be to home collectors who are known for not using factory standard balls, so why ship them?

A couple of coin mechs ...

Seriously? He was clearly referring to the coin mechs and including a store credit that could be used to obtain the coin mechs (or presumably toward other parts). He wasn't "stirring" things at all - just making a reasonable and logical suggestion.

You don't seem to understand how (or why) the coin mech issue has so many people bothered. It's more to do with how (and when) it was communicated and the principle of it all. Your explanation of "it's too hard to deal with on the manufacturing line" is an insult to anyone who has ever dealt with the logistics of manufacturing - it's certainly no where near as hard to deal with as you make it out to be and to imply that it is difficult for Stern to do is just laughable.

Not including coin mechs on a MMR was either a cost reduction move or just poor planning. To try and portray it as anything else (as you have now done multiple times) is both disingenuous and insulting. It's unfortunate that you don't seem to think more highly of your customers or understand why some of them feel "nickle and dimed" over this.

PPS has handled this issue very poorly and you don't seem to care. That probably isn't going to hurt you in the long run, given your pretty much complete ownership of WMS pinball rights, but it certainly doesn't reflect well on you either. A lot of us are going to spend a lot of money making money for PPS - don't insult our intelligence or take advantage of our good will in the process.

Of course the quality of the games is much more important. But think about it - if PPS isn't willing to deal with the softball issues it has generated to date, does that give you any warm fuzzys about how they would handle a defective run of PCB boards or whatever?

In many cases, perception is reality. PPS has shot themselves in the foot repeatedly on issues that could have been handled so much more professionally. For whatever reason, Rick seems to prefer doing everything he can to avoid taking responsibility for any of the issues or making anyone who asks reasonable (but difficult) questions seem like a loon. Each time, he digs in harder and deeper. I get that. I did that myself when I was young and thought my way was the best (and usually only) way.

It's an ego thing - those with an ego can never admit they didn't handle something properly. They see it as an issue of weakness, rather than a measure of strength. I was very successful in my career when I thought I knew it all, but became even more so when I realized I didn't. I hope Rick becomes more successful.

Given the surprising number of PMs I've received this afternoon, I suspect you are absolutely correct.

This is only tangentiality about coin mechs. The real issue is how PPS handles issues that may be seen as negative. That is just as important as any update regarding game production.

This site is full of similar posts concerning issues with Stern and JJP in threads dedicated to their games. Why should PPS issues be treated any differently?

I did, as I suspect most others did. But offering deeply discounted mechs doesn't address the issue of how/when the announcement was made and ignores the fact that anyone paying $8k for a new pinball game shouldn't have to pay a penny more for coin mechs.

Bullsh*t.

PPS contracted CG to make the machine, not the other way around. If you spec mechs, then mechs come with the game.

I really can't believe you are now trying to blame your contractor for your poor planning/mistake/cost cutting move/whatever it is.

You know very well that's not the issue.

You may want to wait to see how the mods would/could be powered. Physically, most, if not all, should fit.

Rick - thank you for your post, especially the portion quoted here. I know that I for one wouldn't have been upset (or as upset) if you had provided this level of detail earlier and if you are able/willing to do so in the future, I suspect a lot of the craziness disappears.

I (obviously) didn't realize this either and it puts a number of things in new light.

Perhaps someone from CGC can be encouraged to participate here to offload some of the load from Rick. Surely a project of this size can afford someone to interface with a good portion of the primary customer base on a regular basis.

Maybe. But that would be short sighted.

When you are in the luxury market category (which is where I put $8k toys), it's a very smart thing to do. I've made suggestions to Lexus and Celebrity Cruises that I expected to end up in the bit bucket only to find out that they led to service changes. Those two brands pretty much have me as customers for good now.

This isn't exactly a business where it's easy to find new customers or replace lost ones.

steve-o, very glad to hear that you didn't pull the trigger at $18k or anywhere near that. I don't understand the frenzy that caused the pricing bubble for MM and some other titles (especially BBB). I understand supply/demand/etc., but the bubble of the last few years was way out of whack.

The obvious benefit of MMR is that many who had no reasonable hope of owning a MM now have a shot, but the biggest benefit to the hobby from the PPS remakes (and the Stern vault releases) is the likely permanent deflation of that bubble.

I'm sure there are some collectors that got burned by the bubble (I know a couple), but the true legacy of PPS/STIVE will be less about the games themselves and more about restoring order and normality to the pin market.

In the long run, this should benefit those that come out with pins that raise the bar (like AMH) as buyers can focus on substance and game play over hype.

Actually, if you ask Gary, he would probably remind you that Stern is a manufacturing company that happens to design pinball machines rather than the other way around. His favorite pinball game is always whichever one is on the line.

Stern's interest in MMR is certainly more "how can it help the line keep running, keep people employed and revenue coming in" than "why is anyone interested in a game from the past?"

(And they know the answer to the last question anyway - look at the "Vault Edition" concept. Conceptually no different than what PPS is doing)

Wow. You may not agree with people expressing their opinions, but to call anyone an ahole for doing so really takes the cake. I doubt that Rick welcomes your "endorsement".

Your post is the most despicable I've ever seen on Pinside. On behalf of reasonable Pinsiders, keep this kind of vitriol out of our forum.

So now you've appointed yourself the thought police. Your post went well beyond decency. Go back and read it again - you did a lot more than use the word "ahole".

As for numbers, if 100 people say the same thing, maybe there's an issue or two that needs to be addressed.

I question the judgement of anyone trying to defend your post (including you), so I'm not going to have any further discussion with anyone that tries.

Or those wanting to know why if PPS thinks so few will be impacted by lack of coin mechs, why they don't just ship them free to those that want them.

Or those that ask a question he doesn't want to answer.

(Or, in other words, you have nailed the reason I started this thread - poor (or selective) communication).

Not sure offering something that everybody thought they already paid for anyway would count as offering something for free.

You are correct - I'm in the wrong thread. Sorry for the (my) confusion.

Obviously you didn't understand that your second quoted phrase implied "(only applies to confirmed original purchaser)

For someone that is usually smart and level headed, this thread sure seems to have knocked you off balance.

Ah, I see. I would normally agree with that. However, if we take Rick at his word, PPS believes that very few care about having the mechs so it follows that not everyone would ask for them. And presumably only those that follow a Pinside would even know about the "free" offer, so you aren't dealing with 100% of owners.

We should move any follow up to the "PPS communication" thread and leave this one for others to speculate when MMR production starts and other game updates.

I don't think people are making things up (as a general statement). As for theories without basis, that's pretty much a result of your decision to stay quiet when you are (apparently) bothered by a question/topic.

You already "stay quiet" by ignoring reasonable questions/concerns. You can't "interact" if you only do so on the easy stuff.

mof said it perfectly in the thread I started about PPS communications:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pps-mmr-communication-its-not-about-the-missing-coin-mechs/page/14#postbox

"The bottom line is — running a small business is about setting customer expectations and meeting them, and it's about maintaining trust with your customer base. When you fail to meet expectations, how you respond to the situation defines you as a businessman. It's not about being perfect. When expectations aren't met, if communication and action are delayed or missing, trust is appropriately brought into question.

We've observed vendors on Pinside (including PPS) deal with bumps in the road and overcome them with prompt communication and action. From what I've observed, many people were hoping for a high level of communication and responsibility regarding this issue to match the faith they demonstrated to PPS in a 3-hour sellout of the product offered. The customer base demonstrated a truly remarkable level of faith and trust up front in being delivered an excellent product. I presume PPS earned that trust with their previous track record with the customer base. I imagine that anything less than an excellent performance on the delivery side will meet quick scrutiny."

(And, AFAIK, no one, myself included, got an answer to why, if not shipping mechs with MMR is only an issue for a small fraction of orders, why not just ship them to those it is an issue for?).

Now maybe people will understand why I opened the other thread (which I asked to be closed because I thought it had run its' course (and I was pretty sure you were not going to try and have a reasonable discussion about the issues).

My mother taught me never to take my marbles and go home when I was upset. Sorry you thought doing so was the best way to handle constructive critism.

(And NO ONE, especially me, said or believes this was easy. We all know there are reasons for the way things are, but it's hard for those on the outside to understand them when you don't answer questions about them).

Looking forward to a successful MMR rollout. Sorry to see this thread end on such a disappointing note.

Effective communication is a two-way street.

I didn't "ruin" anything. Rick just showed everyone he has no interest in having two-way dialogs with his most energized customer base. To me, that is mind boggling, but that's his right. It's also a very convenient way from taking responsibility or answering questions without being dismissive.