(Topic ID: 67443)

MMR PPS and Overall Update - Official PPS (Oct 21, 2013)


6 years ago

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#72 6 years ago


I have no doubts you guys will nail the hardware, you guys have all the molds, plans, whatever to make that stuff perfect like you have been for years.

What I'm concerned about is the overall feel of the game. You've talked a lot about how it needs to act and play like the original, but how much emphasis are you guys putting on feel? Stern could make an MM that looks and plays like the original, but we all know it won't feel the same.

Also, will the boards be software upgrade able? Assuming you guys nail the hardware, the software part is very subjective. If you guys don't quite get it right he first time, will we be able to upload updated code to the board to fix any issues? Also, a similar question, what if we want to used a different ROM revision or the profanity ROMS?

Will the side rails and trim be Williams parts? If we aren't happy with the gold, can we buy Williams rails etc and use that?

Can we expect this game to play, act and most importantly feel like a 1997 NIB MM?

Thanks so much.

#224 6 years ago

Black is original, it should be black.

Quoted from lapean111:

I guess just one question, white or black rubber from the factory? Please say white!!!

#290 6 years ago

I think you can just use some mylar as well.


Or something like this:

ebay.com link » Flipper Button Guard Cabinet Protector Set Clear

Quoted from Triumvirat73:

I'd have to say that I agree with this wholeheartedly. If they don't come included I would definitely get some before assembling the game.

#301 6 years ago

I thought you guys were talking about flipper button wear. My bad. This is what you want to keep the decals from peeling:


#327 6 years ago

Okay, talking out of my ass here a bit, but those metal cab protectors aren't enough by themselves, are they? I believe they work because when stern installs the decal they cut around them so those metal brackets don't touch the decals at all.

Since the leg, nor protector is touching the decal, it doesn't rub and wrinkle it up.

#333 6 years ago

He has already stated that the LEs will be built first, standards after.

Quoted from rai:

Will all LEs be shipped before people can walk into a distributor and walk out with a regular edition as you can with WoZ?

#428 6 years ago

You are quick, I deleted the comment as I didn't want to start trouble. The PinballInc guys aren't just random guys on the sideline, they've done a lot for pinball and my guess are pretty well connected. I don't think it's a sour grapes issue, I think he was coming out and saying that the game will be more different than we think, and he is probably in a position to know.

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Yeah, believe the dude on the sidelines making after market ramps but question the guy making MMr (in collaboration with Williams overseers) who also happens to own the license for all B/W parts?

What exactly does "insider knowledge" mean to you anyway?

#431 6 years ago

Yah, I don't know, it's all so cryptic and passive aggressive feeling. I'll stop commenting in the FAQ thread now. Sorry to de-rail, I wish I got to the delete faster.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

Watching from the sidelines it had the appearance of sour grapes! Sounds like they got shut out of the project.


#459 6 years ago

I'd prefer that not be "fixed." I want a game as close to original as possible.

Quoted from heckheck:

Rick. Not sure if this has been asked. Will any attempt be made to fix or at least improve the Merlin kickout hole problem. This shot is notorious for not sticking, and if you go back to comments made in a Fireside Expo chat from 2004, Brian Eddy said

#467 6 years ago

Are all the distributors squared away in terms of LE allotment? I keep hearing conflicting reports as to weather my order is actually an order or not.

#513 6 years ago

I think the point is, LEDs shouldn't go out for a very very long time if ever.

Quoted from DarkWizard:

Not looking forward to an LED going out.

#534 6 years ago

Even if they don't, they are available from Terry for $15:


Also, Rick stated he's talking with the Color DMD guys but not sure which way that'll go.

Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I know decals are being used but I really hope they will use same system as Stern to stop decals wrinkling?

Also, what are the chances of color dmd being compatible? Awesome mod and surely this should be in from the start???

#537 6 years ago

Same here I had an LED go on my ACDC but those are multi-colored and not the same. However, you don't need a pinball repair guy to fix the board. My guess is that it's not hard to remove the board, hopefully it isn't buried under all kinds of other junk

You can pull the board and I'm sure there are tons of shops in your town that will fix it for a few bucks. Repairing them is super easy if you have the correct equipment, either take it to someone that does, or absolute worst case you have to ship it off to have the cheap repair done.

It sounds bad, but again, with the reliability of the LEDs, they shouldn't happen at all during the life of the game, but I guess it's possible it happens once or twice, every few years sort of thing.

Like other said, this is how things are going, but for a good reason. The equipment to do the work is actually really reasonable, under $100. Otherwise, pull it, take it to a local shop and it's a simple repair. Hopefully it's just a few screws and a connector.

Quoted from DarkWizard:

I have had LEDs go out though quicker than expected, which is what gives me a small amount of trepidation.

#569 6 years ago

That's great news. I'll feel better when all the distributors know exactly where they stand and how many they're getting.

Quoted from PPS:

We are pretty much thru our initial order handling (and sleepless nights) collecting everything, figuring out duplicates, non-reponse customers, etc - this is for PPS allocated games. We are then going thru additional lists that are on the our 'waiting list' for LE or 'upgrade list' for LE, which will be happening as well.

#654 6 years ago


I asked this a few pages back, and I think someone else asked it as well. Sorry if this has been answered and I missed it. Will we have the ability to select or load different ROM revisions?

I personally prefer the profanity ROM, for that a simple yes/no menu option for "Profanity Enabled" would be good enough. What would be better, since there are only a few revisions, is a menu option where we can select the ROM revision we want to use.

Has this been given any thought?


#657 6 years ago

You might want to ask your distributor instead.

Quoted from ABT12:

This was asked a couple of days ago, but never addressed, so I will ask again. If MMR was ordered through a non-Illinois distributor, by a non-Illinois resident and was picked up at the manufacturer(Chicago Gaming) would sales tax have to be paid one way or another? Thanks for all the answers.

#668 6 years ago

I believe the art changed from the sample to the original. I know someone with a sample MM and it was a while ago but they were showing me something about the purple on the side of the cab.

Quoted from o-din:

Wasn't there two different shades of purple?

Pictures would be sweet.

Quoted from miggitymac:

Yes, more pictures, please! High resolution would be even better.

#694 6 years ago

I believe he stated at Expo that the artwork is going through multiple revisions. In the last revision of the colors was close but not perfect. I think everything is pretty far along, assuming the game has to be done for Williams approval in just a couple months, this game should only be a couple months from production.

Quoted from o-din:

but the cabinet may not have it's artwork yet

#701 6 years ago

In the spirit of trying to turn this thread back into a question and answer thread:

Are the boards going to be software/OS update-able? I can see the game being release and the 1,000 people finding something that wasn't caught in testing. I would be surprised if it wasn't, but timing tweaks, emulation tweaks etc I'm sure will be needed after release.

#713 6 years ago

8,000 points for me is like 0.7 round trip tickets! That's worth about $135 to me.

Quoted from gweempose:

However, just because someone wants to use a credit card, it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't afford it.

#717 6 years ago

Ah, so if I don't use a credit card that'll fix everything? Good job pointing out the problem, but where is the solution? Everyone stop using credit cards? How about a realistic solution?

Quoted from Baiter:

Unfortunately that 1% you get back means another 2% into the credit card coffers from overall fees, which comes out of the retailer's pockets, which actually decreases the overall value of your dollar to 97%. Welcome to support of the machine.

#745 6 years ago

He stated his logo was a legal requirement, it's not about pride.

#762 6 years ago

Rick (if you're still reading this),

I have some questions regarding the deposit and exactly when it becomes non refundable. You stated at Expo we can get a refund until Williams approves the game. From the sound of things, Williams approval of the game means it's done.

Is there going to be a gap between approval and making those deposits non refundable to give us a chance to read hands on reviews etc? Are you going to make the game very available to the community to play and test so that we have all the info we need before we commit? Any idea on how that is going to be handled?

Once the game is final, I would greatly appreciate some 3rd party reviews preferably by popular pinball people regarding the look, feel and play of the game, before our $1,000 is non refundable.


#773 6 years ago

Will we have a chance to read reviews and hands on reports by the pinball community before we have to commit our $1K deposits?

#816 6 years ago

I hope we get to see them Monday or Tuesday.

Quoted from lapean111:

Is it wrong that I am getting overly excited for the pictures?

#850 6 years ago

Here's my take on the pictures. The game isn't done, nobody said it was done. It was stated that they are working through multiple revision of the art, some of the colors aren't right and I'm sure other things.

If he posts these pics, there is a good chance Pinside is going to tear him to shreds over it which isn't fair because it's not done. On the flip side, there is still time for changes and he seems really open to feedback.

At the end of the day though, if he didn't want to post pics, he wouldn't have said he was going to.

Or maybe he's just really busy, I dunno....

#855 6 years ago

I think you are alone on this as it makes absolutely no sense.

Quoted from BC_Gambit:

but is there any appetite out there for having an option for a manual shooter over the "big stoopid red button".

#856 6 years ago

Absolutely, and based on what he said, they should be here today at the latest. I guess my only point was, there was more to think about for him than just snapping a few pics and throwing them up on Pinside. He has other things to consider and maybe that's the delay.

Quoted from frolic:

Well, Rick did tell us pics were coming....

#1008 6 years ago

Every single switch in vactation america was an optical switch.

Quoted from kvan99:

I second this.....never seen a Vacation America but I hope from a reliability stand point switches are not integerated on those boards.

#1016 6 years ago

potgar 96:

That's cool.

#1023 6 years ago

This pin might not exist if JJack or Stern didn't create the $8K price bracket. It wouldn't have shoved beater MMs north of $10,000. And even at $8,000 a beater MM would still be a bad value compared to the hypothetical $5,500 Stern LE

Quoted from lordloss:

I wonder how much this pin would have been if WOZ or stern didn't create the new 8k price bracket.

#1048 6 years ago

I hate this mentality. I bought one once, and it broke therefore <insert conclusion here>. There is a bit more of a bigger picture involved.

Quoted from o-din:

I do not know the source of those cages, but yes, braising them would have made them stronger.

Quoted from o-din:

The one I received directly from HEP with new troll cages broke one almost immediately, and the new owner of the machine has also had to replace one. They were not braised.

#1131 6 years ago

I'm hoping the quality of the wood used is equal to the original. When you play a Stern you can tell and I think their cabs are a pretty big part of that.

Quoted from PPS:

The cabinet should be the 'same' as the original, as we are using the original cad files - so dimensionally as well as where the major nuts/bolts go should be the same. I'm not sure if after the years that there are any improvements, but I'm sure anything like that would be for good reason ...

#1141 6 years ago

I appreciate your opinion, I still disagree

Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

I think this is more user bias. I've had plenty side by side and there was no glaring deficiency in regards to cabinet construction in either direction IMO. Sorry don't want to derail the thread just couldn't keep my trap shut.

1 week later
#1162 6 years ago

Any other general updates on MMLE? How are things going? Art any closer? Play field done? I know there isn't any "news" per say, but just curious how things are going.

#1248 5 years ago

Can we get some high res close up photos of some of the boards on the underside of the play field? Also, some high res photos of the top side would be great. Yes, I know it's exactly the same as every other MM, but it might be fun to see pictures of a brand new MM.

#1250 5 years ago

A brand new MM is gorgeous. Just about every person on this site would be very interested in seeing it.

1 week later
#1256 5 years ago

Invisiglass would be a nice touch.

So would the option to use software to brighten and dim the LED inserts to our liking.

Quoted from btw75:

"other:tbd" For it!

#1357 5 years ago

IMO, trim is one thing, but I want everything inside the game exactly like the stock MM. If the stock MM shipped with gold hibitrails, that's what I want. It would be a major turn off if the game wasn't exactly the same.

#1361 5 years ago

People were talking about chaining the color of the habit rails that shipped with the game. I think that would be a mistake.

By inside, I meant the play field. Everything on the topside of the play field. There was talk of moving away from the original color of the rubbers, and also making the habit rails black etc. I want the top side of the play field stock.

Quoted from LTG:

For a start the boards won't be the same. I hope that is okay.

Top side has to look and play the same.

And people will mod the heck out of it anyway.

LTG : )

#1369 5 years ago

Luckily I think it has to look at play exactly like the original. I hope that means everything on top of the play field.

Quoted from hollywood:

Black Chrome me out! Ramps and all!!

#1385 5 years ago

I am.

Quoted from Rarehero:

Heeeeeeey so lets see some high def pics or video of this thing!!!! Yeah? Anyone else into that besides me? LOL

#1400 5 years ago

Nope, if they did we'd know, that's when the deposits become non refundable.

Quoted from ChadNC:

The way i read Ricks message is that Wms has approved it.

#1405 5 years ago

I don't think the game is original, but it should look original. A few people are vocal on the whole black nickel thing, it's one thing to make it an option but another to force everyone to go that way.

Yeh, nobody said they would. I just know Rick reads this so I'm throwing my 2 cents in. I think there are a lot of people who agree as well.

Also, if they have a finite amount of time, and the trim is as complicated as it sounds, I'd much rather them scrap all these seemingly difficult upgrades and focus on what really matters, get this thing FEELING like a MM. You don't play the trim and while customization is a neat idea, I'm not sure this is the project to break ground in that area.

#1409 5 years ago

They said it would come in standard or gold, absolutely follow through with your promise. They'll figure it out I'm sure, but stop there. Concentrate and figure the game out. I couldn't imagine the blow-back if they decided to offer a black trim and problems with that were the reason games got delayed 3 weeks or 6 weeks or however long it would take to figure something like that out.

Not worth the time, money or risk to try and figure out a black option.

Quoted from herg:

I completely agree with this. I'm guessing that part of the problem, however, is that PPS has painted themselves into a corner with it. They sold the "LE" as having an option for upgraded trim. If they were to pull that option, they will have angry depositors. I'm on the fence with the trim question, so it would solve my internal debate, but there will be others that are not as understanding. I do, however, love the look of the black nickel / black chrome!

#1415 5 years ago

Sometimes, they nail it the first time. MM is probably the most popular game in history. You are talking about different, not better. How it shipped, is perfect. Some people want gold, some chrome, some black, you won't please everyone. IMO, to please the most amount of people, ship it how people remember it which is as original as possible. It's MM, how does changing some colors update the game 17 years? It's the same game, different colors, so what?

Quoted from bigdaddy07:

and if we can get the rails/legs/wireforms upgraded we should have a nicely updated MM that will stand out over its 17 year old origional and up against even some of your most current pins of today.

Isn't it closer to $350 for a powder coating job? Maybe someone can chime in if I'm wrong.

Also, using your logic, if we get $2,000 in crap upgrades, that means $2,000 needs to be cut from somewhere else. I'd like the quality to go into the game, not the trim. My hunch is that PPS isn't going to take a $2K hit so we can have pretty trim. Screw the trim.

Quoted from bigdaddy07:

True but, at 8k, I'm not looking at dumping an additional 2k into upgrades.

#1417 5 years ago

How many units sold has nothing to do with popularity. MM was made in another time, in a time when pinball was on the decline. AF was made in the pinball heyday. However, yah, you can debate AF is more popular. I guess it depends if you ask hard core pinheads or casual players. Pinball tanked in those 5 years.

MM is ONE OF the most popular pinballs of all time. Better?

Quoted from Crash:

Medieval Madness is far from the most popular. It only sold ~6,000 units while Addams Family sold over 20,000 not mentioning the gold edition.

#1420 5 years ago

Wow, So if either A.) the game is unplayable or B.) the trim isn't to someones liking there will be less demand in future remakes? Becaue of the trim? Really? You think the color of the trim is as important as the game working?

Quoted from rai:

If for some reason the boards or the LEDs do not work out or if people have to spends another boat load on trim, that could have been added as standard option. Than there will be less demand or interest in remakes at this price point.

Again, let's say your right and it costs PPS 1/2 price. That's still "$500 or more" (your words) that needs to be cut from somewhere else! They aren't going to take the hit, where / what gets cut to make up that money for your personal preference?

Quoted from rai:

As I said, $8k plus shipping is a big nut enough without having to add another grand or more for an elective trim option. It would be nice if the LE editions at least were in fact given more than promised rather than the least that was promised and no more.

#1434 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

without having to add another grand or more for an elective trim option.

Quoted from rai:

I never said how much a trim upgrade costs, I just said that people don't want to spend a boat load to upgrade if we were given an option we were happy with.

#1435 5 years ago

Right. Because people on pinside, that would read this thread, and decide to vote, is a good representation of "pinball." Pinside is only a small minority of "pinball" and people here tend to like their game more modded than most.

It's like polling Ford drivers and asking thing which is better, Ford or Chevy. Zing! A car reference!

Quoted from rai:

The color trim option poll thread shows 73% prefer 'black nickel' option

Do the math.

#1438 5 years ago

Right. So you prefer black trim, and you don't mind waiting. What if, I don't prefer black trim and I do mind waiting? What if the black trim is the hold up and games don't get built until that is figured out?

Nobody is saying they don't want quality, but look at all the issues the gold comes with: Clearcoat or not, tarnishing, gold chrome, gold powder coat, glossy, matte. Your preference takes time, and time is money. After finding a gold finish, black would come with all the same challanges and they'd be at square one.

It's just trim. That's all I'm saying. Lets see how the actual game turns out, and then worry about really minor details.

Quoted from pezpunk:

I'm not seeing the "risk" in offering an additional trim option as long as the other options are also offered.

I really really really could care less if the machine is 3 weeks late, hell I could care less if it's 6 months late as long as they get it RIGHT. the last thing I want is for them to rush it out the door due to an artificial deadline. we're going to be owning these machines for a long, long time. I'd rather they wait until it's done before letting it out the door. timeliness of delivery is the LAST priority as far as I'm concerned. quality is the top.

#1492 5 years ago

Do you secretly love MM14? I'll bet you're a customer...


Quoted from teekee:

Yep, that should do it... just wait until the additional $7000 is due!

#1494 5 years ago

Just keep in mind, 97% of the people are happy and excited! Some of us, unhealthily excited about it! Some people in particular are just really good at being loud, and that's unfortunate, but we are VERY much looking forward to the game and whatever info, pics, video, insight etc you can provide us along the way!

Quoted from PPS:

Williams logo is not on the game because that was per contract about 8 years ago way before MM was even conceived (by Wayne as well) ... you would think if you had a brand that you would be very careful about letting other people use it when you cannot control much ... why such wrong headed thinking here on some of these topics?

Also, aftermarket Translites, etc with WMS logo's can be put on the game.


#1514 5 years ago

Here it is, $139:


Just buy it if you want it, it doesn't have to come with your game. We don't need another add on or option for a translite that can't come with the game and most people won't want.

Quoted from ChadNC:

Ok. I didn't say that I minded the PPS logo, I just prefer the Wms one.What I was asking is if they could send /offer the Wms translite with an upcharge. After all they own the rights. I know as apart of the agreement they can't have the logo on the pin however im not sure if it would be a big deal if they threw a translite tube in the box for shipping purposes seeing as they sell them!
Another idea and a question would be could you add a color DMD? Again stuff that they sell anyway.

#1516 5 years ago

This has nothing to do with Metallica. It sounds like jumping on pre orders and having LE's is your bag, and that's good for you. But to say you aren't sure what you're getting is a little strange. All will be known before the deposits are final, and MM has been around for 15 years.

This isn't just another Stern release with no code, I'm not even sure why you make the comparison.

Quoted from o-din:

Maybe some, but that had nothing to do with my decision. Some of us are not made of money, and are not really looking to make money in this hobby, but on the other hand can't afford to risk losing too much money in it either. I got caught up in the METLE frenzy, and paid extra because I used to love the band, and it looked like an awesome pin. But the novelty wore off a few months later, and I found it was no longer worth near what I paid for it. That is a mistake that I can't afford to make twice.

However, after you have made them, and I have played one, I believe I might be able to afford a second hand one. Time will tell.

#1555 5 years ago

Brilliant! Especially considering everything you've done for pinball, feel free to shit on a thread meant to provide us updates from PPS.

You talk so much for someone that does so little.

Quoted from teekee:

Exactly... why tie your money up for a long period of time just to instantly lose a grand? Once you pop the top and put your first plays on it you just burned a grand. Plus they aren't rare in the least so you'll see plenty changing hands once released. And unlike the originals there is little hope of getting your money back with these. That's just the hard facts.

Now that the originals have come down in price to more reasonable levels people will always prefer those... even if they have to pay a bit more. I hope you're not thinking you can play this thing for a year and get your initial investment back. Its probably a money loser with some risk to go along with it since we know nothing about it.

If you really want one why not do the smart thing and wait for an HUO? Save a grand, maybe more! Plus you'll be able to play it before you buy it and determine if this MM wannabe is truly the real deal. The false excitement many of you are feeling will go away quickly. You guys are fooled into thinking that you're actually getting a NIB MM... Well, you're not! Its not really a MM and will NEVER be a MM. There is only one MM and those were put into production by Williams. It may look like one on the surface and play like one but its not really a MM...

Its funny how easily so many of you will spend 8 grand you don't have. Jump on the bandwagon! Don't get left behind! Many of these same guys will whine about the flippers and the sellers being the problem when in reality its the out of control buyers that create the problems. Build it and they will definitely send money! Yes its always the flippers and sellers fault... LOL!

If you don't care about your 8 grand and just want the excitement of opening a NIB pin that will look and play like a MM but not actually be a MM then what the hell, go for it. I'm just here to open your eyes to these cold hard facts.

Way too much new stuff to be excited about and to spend your money on... yet, back to the future we go.

I'm Pappa Teekee... you might not like what I have to say but after you throw your tantrum and call me names you'll sit back and think about it for a while and understand its just 'tough love'... Pappa's always right and I just love you all!

#1556 5 years ago

You just proved you have no idea what you're talking about.

Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

Use your own Capital, not mine.

Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

I agree, PPS should use it's own venture capital and not mine.

#1558 5 years ago

Understatement of the century.

Quoted from teekee:

Exactly... why tie your money up for a long period of time just to instantly lose a grand? Once you pop the top and put your first plays on it you just burned a grand. Plus they aren't rare in the least so you'll see plenty changing hands once released. And unlike the originals there is little hope of getting your money back with these. That's just the hard facts.

Now that the originals have come down in price to more reasonable levels people will always prefer those... even if they have to pay a bit more. I hope you're not thinking you can play this thing for a year and get your initial investment back. Its probably a money loser with some risk to go along with it since we know nothing about it.

If you really want one why not do the smart thing and wait for an HUO? Save a grand, maybe more! Plus you'll be able to play it before you buy it and determine if this MM wannabe is truly the real deal. The false excitement many of you are feeling will go away quickly. You guys are fooled into thinking that you're actually getting a NIB MM... Well, you're not! Its not really a MM and will NEVER be a MM. There is only one MM and those were put into production by Williams. It may look like one on the surface and play like one but its not really a MM...

Its funny how easily so many of you will spend 8 grand you don't have. Jump on the bandwagon! Don't get left behind! Many of these same guys will whine about the flippers and the sellers being the problem when in reality its the out of control buyers that create the problems. Build it and they will definitely send money! Yes its always the flippers and sellers fault... LOL!

If you don't care about your 8 grand and just want the excitement of opening a NIB pin that will look and play like a MM but not actually be a MM then what the hell, go for it. I'm just here to open your eyes to these cold hard facts.

Way too much new stuff to be excited about and to spend your money on... yet, back to the future we go.

I'm Pappa Teekee... you might not like what I have to say but after you throw your tantrum and call me names you'll sit back and think about it for a while and understand its just 'tough love'... Pappa's always right and I just love you all!

#1573 5 years ago

I speak for nobody and I know nothing BUT, if they are still on track for Williams approval in the next couple weeks, that is the timeframe to lock down the deposits. They aren't going to do that before the game is available to play, pics vids etc I'm hoping will come at that time as well.

Quoted from Rarehero:

I know what will shut them up....sweet new pics & video of the game in action!

#1604 5 years ago

We don't really have WOZ yet, how many people are still waiting? Doesn't supply have to go up before prices go down? This time next year, we are supposed to have 1,000+ $8K games out there. It's going to be a fun and interesting year.

Quoted from bigdaddy07:

There hasn’t been any competition yet either. What have we got? WOZ

#1606 5 years ago

If JJP and Stern made games that were better than their competition, they wouldn't have an issue. The fact that you are even insinuating that they might lose to a game from 15 years ago says a lot.

If JJP and Stern can't survive a few Bally/Williams remakes, they weren't going to make it anyway, or their games weren't really all that good to begin with.

I think Stern will be fine, they survived the recession. Barely, but they survived. I know nothing about JJP.

Quoted from metallik:

I do not want JJP or Stern to close their doors because too much money went to the competition.

#1664 5 years ago

Personally, I had pinball plans for the $8,000 I have for MM14, and those plans did not include a NIB pin.

Just saying.

#1672 5 years ago

Will you stop taking shots at Teekee? He's by enlarge checked out of this thread, if you keep delivering the cheap shots he'll just come back.

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

But you have "saved" someone? Anyone? Tiki is Jesus!

#1680 5 years ago

I don't take anything I read or anyone here seriously. You can't, especially with the signal to noise ratio in this place. Past a person or two on here that likes to get racial, I wouldn't mind meeting anyone. Even Teekee even though he annoys the hell out of me

Quoted from Concretehardt:

OT: I don't always agree with what TeeKee has to say on these boards but he is a good guy and I would be willing to bet an MMr that if you were to have a beer and play a few games of pinball with the guy you would find you have way more in common with him than you have differences.

#1719 5 years ago

I can't wait for pics and video, hopefully this week!

#1721 5 years ago

You sir have never played Hollywood Heat.

Quoted from djb_rh:

*no* company has proven they can make a better game than MM so far, and it seems like maybe none will.

#1778 5 years ago

My observations, the hardware looked solid. I would have much prefered a HD video (even if it was from an iPhone) and 6 or 7 minutes of play. I wanted to see the trolls etc.

There are some software bugs, but the page literally said they are still working them out. As long as the hardware is perfect, I have no problem with installing bug fixes via USB. I think it's inevitable that as more people play, more bugs will be found. I'm hoping they build 10 protos and send them around the country so that we can help work the bugs out and play the game locally.

Past that, it looks like MM.

#1827 5 years ago

I think you're off base here. Rick has been very clear that Roger will look at and approve the game when it's done, ETA this year. Rick just said the appointment was the first week in January, close enough.

"essentially done" is a bullshit term, but yes, if the guy has been working on it for 24 months, and it's 2 months away from done, then IMO it's essentially done.

Do you think they're going to release the game without the castle working right? Or the LEDS working right? Do you really think that's going to happen? That's where they are today, I appreciate seeing it, and so do most people. Lay off.

Quoted from epthegeek:

At Expo when you announced the thing, you made it sound like it was essentially done - you're just waiting for WMS to sign off. Then you post a video with two glaring issues most people would have a problem with, without any kind of a hat tip to the fact that you know they exist.

All I'm saying is, it would have helped some of the negative reaction if you got in front of it, rather than just shrugging it off after the fact as "it's a prototype".

#1832 5 years ago

Your gripe was that he didn't come out and address the castle bug and the LED bug but instead generally addressed the fact that the game still has some bugs.

I personally don't understand, what's the big deal? How exactly should he have worded it?

Quoted from epthegeek:

I'm not attacking anyone. Meh, I can't win.

#1834 5 years ago

He was going to get them anyway There are certain people on here, not matter what is done, how good or how bad will break out the pitch forks.

It's a shame the small percentage of people are so noisy.

Quoted from epthegeek:

Not griping - just pointing out it would have helped with the knee jerk negative reactions he got.

#1849 5 years ago

That happens a lot on pin side, but I don't think that's what happened here.

Quoted from metallik:

And some of us are simply offering observations, which are quickly twisted and attacked by people with far too much time on their hands.

Perspective, indeed.

#1856 5 years ago

The original software was meant to interface with original hardware. When you emulate the original software, it's looking for original hardware which doesn't exist. Changes need to be made, or something needs to convert those old signals to work with the new electronics. This is not as easy as it sounds as the original boardset was imperfect and in order to make the MM feel original, you have to "break" new technology perfectly to make it feel perfect.

The minor LED and castle issue seem to be some sort of timing issue. They all technically work, and at the right time, but whatever is taking the old timing of those outputs and converting them to work with the new electronics isn't doing it quite right.

maybe someone more technical can explain better, but they'll get it.

Quoted from viper001:

Again, sincerely not stirring up trouble but just wondering why there needs to be tweaking to begin with?

#1870 5 years ago

Actually, you are the troll. The FULLY REFUNDABLE $1K was just to try and have some kind of seriousness to the process. It's a new company, remakes have never been made, it's a process and it has a learning curve.

Can't we wait for the guy to fail first before we crucify him? He's done nothing so far but keep his promises. He promised approval this year, and they were ready, it was Roger who needed to wait an entire whole week! (sarcasm).

PPS thought it would take months to sell out, again, this has never been done before. They didn't want to take 3,000 pre orders and have 2,900 people drop out after they shell out god knows how much in time and materials. In hind site, that would not have happened, but how did he know? The $1K was just encouraging serious buyers.

Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

Troll, your post was so helpful.

The Prototype was used to get cash infusion plain and simple. As we've seen building a one off isn't an issue. Build 1000, ask the other guy how that's going?

#1889 5 years ago

The emulation board set IS a non issue, it will be emulating original code. The game looks and plays fine, they need to clean up the castle destruction sequence and fix a timing issue with the LEDs, but there will be no issues.

It will not be a perfect game when it ships. The masses will find issues, PPS will fix them, we'll plug in our USB sticks, it's not a big deal.

Hopefully the issues will be very very minor, especially compared to the video.

The quote on the PPS website says the game is being fine tuned. The castle destruction sequence works, the LEDs work, they just need to be fine tuned like the page says. It's a non issue.

Quoted from viper001:

you will see many multiples of supporters assuring all of us that this emulation boardset issue was a non-issue, the game would run with original code, on much new (and better) hardware. Now it has been revealed there is more to it than that and it will create issues

#1893 5 years ago

If I get my game on time, and as promised, it's a non issue. Of course there are issues during the build and design process.

If the game comes to me with those problems, it's an issue. If the game comes any later than October, it's an issue. Until then its just not, just normal things that pop up during the build and design phase.

Quoted from rosh:

Maybe it just semantics, but not sure I would say 'non issue', it is an issue, and I am sure it is on the 'issue list' they are working through. Having said that, I think all of these 'issues' are items that can certainly be resolved with a reasonable effort, and are not things to get worked up over, at least not at this point in time.

As others have said, other issues will pop up, but suspect 99% of them can be resolved with software tweaks. I can say from experience that it took several iterations for me to get the 'pulsing patterns' right on coils in my game to get it to do things 'just right' (and not blow fuses and burn coils), something similar to getting the castle to behave correctly.

Does not appear that any of the 'issues' that have been identified from the short video would be the types of thing that will be major roadblocks to manufacturing getting started early next year, since they all seem to be software related.

#1895 5 years ago

Damn you and your violence!

Quoted from rosh:

I think we are in violent agreement.

#1902 5 years ago

Any chance your guy in Chicago can borrow an iPhone 5 or 5s and take some 1080p video in landscape mode of a decent 11 or 12 minute game with trolls etc? Please.

Quoted from PPS:

i would rather you call the emotional support hotline 408-891-7878 to understand what the need is ... standing by ...

#1917 5 years ago

I'm not sure about your statement. From the info that's been released, WPC-95 is running behind the scenes. However, WPC-95 is looking for original hardware, you can't just emulate it, you need something to convert the signals going to the original hardware to their new hardware.

It's a lot harder than you think.

Quoted from Crash:

Then they don't need to call it hardware emulation. They're just scripting the rules like Pinball Arcade (who also claims they are doing hardware emulation), which is fine as long as it plays 100% like the original game. Emulation means you are running a virtual WPC-95 machine running the original binary WPC-95 code. If this were the case there would be no "tweaks" to make. It would just work.

#1919 5 years ago

Nobody knows the details of the PPS contract, but it's not one of those situations where they can do whatever they want. They don't own the code, they license the code and that licensing agreement comes with restrictions nobody here knows about. For all we know, the pinball must run 100% original code that can't be modified.

Quoted from Crash:

It would be running so many hacks that you might as well just re-write the entire system in a modern language and compile a new environment for the physical board it's running on. That's why I'm a bit skeptical.

I'm not trying to claim I know the details, but I am saying you can't just say "well, the game emulator people did this" they don't have contracts and licensing agreements to abide by.

It's a lot harder and more complicated than you think.

1 week later
#1953 5 years ago

Any update on what day Roger is supposed to approve? It's one day next week, isn't it?

#1968 5 years ago

But... But... But.... I thought this was just a crappy re-fake?

Quoted from PPS:

we have the original uncompressed audio files for MM that we will be using on the MMR!

#1970 5 years ago

The more people we know and respect that play the game the better. This last update is a very good one.

Quoted from Sly_Old_Devil:

Hope Bowen does a PAPA tutorial for MMr ASAP for the fence sitters like me (will help along with the user reviews of course).

#2039 5 years ago

Nobody wants this. Even the people who think they do haven't thought it out. MM is one of the greatest games ever made, not reason to screw it up just for the sake of making it a wide body for no reason.

Not that I think you are considering this, but this is one of the worst Ideas i've ever heard.

Quoted from PPS:

I don't think you can 'just' change geometry without changing (probably for the worse) the game play.

#2059 5 years ago

Surface mount components aren't hard or expensive to fix. Just different. Not a big deal. If someone can't do them at home, pulling the board and taking them to a shop should only be a few bucks.

Quoted from Jazman:

Yea, but those things do not experience the same degree of shock and vibration that a pinball machine experiences...


#2076 5 years ago

Hopefully the approval doesn't get bumped again and goes well. I'm really curious how this all shakes out.

Quoted from miggitymac:

Can we get a live stream of the Roger Sharpe visit?

#2078 5 years ago

It seems like transparency in all this is important to PPS, hence Rick's participation here, the video etc. I know for me, it's made me a lot more excited for MMr and also made me feel a lot more comfortable during first part of this process.

The more transparency the better, it would be wonderful it they filmed it.

Quoted from frolic:

It would be cool for us buyers to see video of Roger doing his thing. Why not tape it, if it turns out well, share it .

If it goes less than perfect you can pretend you didn't tape it .

#2088 5 years ago

Any updates? Not PPS's fault but I think pinball people are especially sensitive about product delays based on other companies' projects.

#2127 5 years ago

All high end restorers are going to use the same parts that MM14 is using. Yah, some of them have bitched about the quality here and there, but at the end of the day the parts were still good enough to use and charge a large amount of money to the customer to get their game like new.

I'm personally not too worried about it.

Quoted from GreenMeerkat:

Given PPS' past of selling replacement parts for Bally/Williams pins is there really that big a risk this will not play as well?

Now that they are not just making the replacement parts, but actually using them to build games, maybe they found some tweaks and fixes that they otherwise wouldn't have found. It might be that all MM repo parts are better because of this project.

#2178 5 years ago

I hate this argument (in regard to LEDs in new Sterns compared to B/W games). There is a big difference between putting LEDs in games that were designed for them and games that weren't.

Quoted from pezpunk:

as far as i know, every manufacturer currently making games is using LEDs instead of incandescents. why would they be doing this if it weren't what people preferred?

AC/DC looks great because the light show and effects and everything else was designed from the ground up with the instant off LEDs in mind. MM is not that game, it was not designed for LEDs and if not done correctly, LEDs can look terrible. That's why people are worried, we don't have the flexibility of switching them out. So, for some of us, having the flexibility of turning down the brightness via software would be a really good compromise. IMO.

#2191 5 years ago

No it's not. It's impractical to use the original boards, the new board set is LED compatible. They are using LEDs because of hardware changes, but the game itself, MM is not designed for LEDs.

Quoted from pezpunk:

MMRLE is designed for LEDs....

Now, if they were redoing the light shows etc to make it LED compatible that would be one thing, but it would also open up another huge can of worms.

The game has to be by contract and is being marketed as a remake that is as close to the original as possible.

#2206 5 years ago

Haven't heard anything in a while. Any progress? Are the LED and castle issues fixed? Any update on the legal approval? How is working with the new sound going? Has the side art been finalized?

#2208 5 years ago

I know. Support will be important once the game starts shipping, I wasn't worried about PPS supporting the product. I was hoping for some updates on the game itself.

Quoted from herg:

The latest posted to the MMR blog is that LTG is on the support team.

#2210 5 years ago

I think so to, I just think it'd be fun to see the progress.

Quoted from frolic:

Considering that last video was a 95% finished game, I'd be shocked if some of the things we noticed are still issues. There does seem to be a lot of care put into it.

#2213 5 years ago

Even though the artwork isn't on the game, has the artwork been completed?

Quoted from PPS:

What usually happens is that there is less of a need to keep rebuilding the game with updated artwork, etc, than to just get it done. Having a new revision of the artwork not on the game will raise all kinds of issues if I show the proto game that does not have the latest playfield on it or latest cab art on it, as we don't need to spend the 3 days to switch everything everytime there is an update ...

#2239 5 years ago

They are striving to make the lighting look identical to the original. Or, as identical as you can get with LEDs.

Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Honestly I doubt PPS would install bright white LEDs under the inserts, probably more like warm white LEDs to match the game. I guess we will find out soon enough.

#2246 5 years ago

I know they will be.

Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I have a feeling Rick's customers will be harder to satisfy than Williams legal department.

#2313 5 years ago

Any chance of having a game at the Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdow? It's April 11th - 13th.


#2318 5 years ago

I think having a prototype at every pinball show is plausible. It's probably a good idea actually. Not saying PPS should be there, but I'm sure show organizers would be happy to work with them. You can ship 2 of them round trip for $1K.

#2325 5 years ago

I thought the point of building the prototypes is that it is finished? What did I miss? There is still some minor tweaking to be done, but the game is signed off, and the parts are on order.

Wasn't the point of the prototypes to show off the finished product? Of course there will be some tweaks, there are to every pinball machine.

Quoted from NJGecko:

If it's not finished you will be suject to nitpickers finding (or making up) faults, things that are less then perfect, things that you NEED to change before it goes out to production. Don't show something to the masses until it's finished.

#2337 5 years ago

If I don't get pizza, wings, and beer from Rick I'm cancelling my refake.

#2355 5 years ago

You mean you don't convey your opinions with fantasy conversations?

Quoted from pezpunk:

if wanted to say "Williams has no monetary incentive to block this" you could have done so without the insults to Rick and MMR buyers.

Of course they were, that's not the point. Rick has said there was a list of corrections, adjustments, changes, whatever you want to call it that was left by Roger. Approve or not, good has come from it, feedback was given and will be followed, not that they wouldn't have, but either way they have to.

Quoted from viper001:

But let's be clear, WMS was *going* to sign off on this.

#2364 5 years ago

Let's pretend for a second this is correct. So, some MMLE owners not caring about quality equals MMLE owners don't care about quality? WTH?

Quoted from viper001:

If I had the time I could copy/paste MANY quotes from MMr folks on this very thread that would infer they are not concerned about build quality or any of other potentially negative aspects of this final product, they just want them to start being built. So my crack on them is well founded and I stand by it.

If you care to point out where I have insulted Rick I will happily apologize to him.

#2375 5 years ago

Let me guess, not a huge fan of sarcasm/humor? Do you REALLY believe people wouldn't mind candles under the inserts? Friggin candles???

#2422 5 years ago

Every time you post, you dig yourself a bigger hole. You have no idea (none of us do) as to what goes on day to day over at Chicago Game. You have no idea if they are close, far, are having issues or not.

Rick stated he has been working on this for YEARS. You know so much that you know exactly where all the samples should go?

Either you know way more about this project than you claim, or you are making up so much stuff it's almost funny. You think they should delay the project why? You say they aren't ready, who are you?

Quoted from viper001:

1A - I have no idea how this is about me at all, I'm not taking your money.
2A - I have bad eyesight as I'm an old guy, I will just wait for the movie if that is OK with you.

That fact is, a bunch of you guys seem to want is for Rick to fire up his assembly line right away. This game is a brand new operating system platform, being designed and built by a factory with very little pinball manufacturing experience. The best thing that could happen is if Rick threw out the Q2 delivery dream and built a set of sample games that he sends out for coin-drop testing. Sample 0001 should go to SS Billiards, 0002 should go to the PHOF, etc, etc. And bunch of them should make the rounds to the spring shows.

You guys seem to see me as the enemy of this project, nothing could be further from the truth. While it is a fact that I don't want a PPS:MM I may be interested if future titles like PPS:Funhouse, etc.

#2427 5 years ago

He did. Rick said that Roger had suggestions and ideas and those were going to be implemented. I don't know how you or your company does things, but at the end of the day all the information we need is going to be out there before we commit our money. I'm not sure what else you think he should do.

You seem to prefer to do things a certain way, but to assume any other way is wrong is where I think the disconnect is.

You may be a manufacturing genius, and you might be 100% right. But look at it from our shoes. We don't know you, you're just another poster on a pinball message board. I do think it was a bit much criticizing when we all know you only have a small fraction of the information on this project. All I know is, I'm going to have all the information I need to either buy or not buy MMLE before my money is committed. Good enough for me.

Quoted from littlecammi:

In this case, Roger Sharpe could have conditionally approved the MM prototype subject to PPS completing a small punch list.

Quoted from metallik:

I know Viper, and trust me, he knows what he's talking about. He works in manufacturing for one of the largest companies in the world and knows very much what it takes to get a product from design to doorstep.

Remember how he dogged Wayne incessantly over his "updates" and such? This was because Wayne obviously had no clue about running a factory, and Viper knew that people were throwing their money away on his project. And wouldn't you know it, the project imploded... after about 5 years. OTOH, Rick does know what he's doing, but I agree with Viper - there's still a lot of risk here, so no need to rush. People need to know exactly what they're getting. I also agree there was no way in hell this thing made it this far without WMS basically guaranteed to sign off on it, so that bit of news was really no-news for some of us.

Next bit of big news would be good, high-res video of an entire game, or even better, a prototype on public display. Lots of shows coming up to demo either/or

Quoted from viper001:

The Man stated in this very thread that there is exactly one prototype, he even mentioned they have been taking it apart and putting it back together as issues are being worked (which is completely normal BTW). There are no sample games on test locations now. I'm sorry if you don't like my suggestions, I was just thinking of ways to stress test this very new, very untested platform. Even with Lloyd being involved in this product I think he is the best choice to have one of these samples as he actually operates a working arcade, with actual arcade customers, and it would get a good workout. As an added bonus he isn't too far away from CG.

If common sense talk and suggestions like this somehow put me in a hole I will curl up down here quite happily. This is a pinball discussion forum, is it not? I continue to notice that the least-civil people in these threads tend to be the fans/buyers who seem to think such discussion or suggestions are selfish people trying to delay or take away their new toy. I can't speak for everyone but that isn't my intention.

#2478 5 years ago

Sterns break, JJP games break, and PPS games will break. Nobody is saying it's not going to break, even with these Maytag references.

It's how they handle the situation when the game breaks that's important. I guess we'll find out.

#2539 5 years ago


This thread is the most transparency I've ever seen from any company, let alone pinball. What is this BS about him not answering enough questions for you? It's so much more, is it ever enough? At least we went from blatant misinformation on your part to back handed compliments. Chill out.

Quoted from viper001:

I will add my name to the list of folks that (wrongly) assumed there was a financial incentive for WMS to approve these games. That fact adds a lot of credibility to you getting their approval on your design so congratulations on making it past that important hurdle. Anyone can look at the pictures of your prototype and realize a lot of design work went into that game so obviously you have been at this longer than October of last year when we first saw it for ourselves.

If I could (humbly) offer any suggestions to you it would be that direct answers to legitimate questions go a long way toward shutting down potential controversy. And if everyone here could wait for your answer instead of assaulting every inquisitor that might be a nice change of pace as well.

It's probably too soon, but any chance you could have a game at the Ohio show? Guaranteed it would have a crowd waiting to play it the whole time!

#2557 5 years ago

It's one thing to talk, it's another to actually put your money where your mouth is. To me at least, this means a lot.

Quoted from PPS:

Electronics warranty (replace) extended to 1 year (from 1/2 year)

#2583 5 years ago

If you want invisigalss, go buy invisiglass. I'm not sure why anyone would need this to be an option when it takes about 15 seconds to install and isn't game specific.

Quoted from playernumber4:

And please try to give us invisiglass as an option if its not standard.

Invisiglass as an LE perk on the other hand, that's something else.

How about mantis (or mantis style) protectors installed from the factory for LE buyers?

Or what about a bag of some extras, like an extra set of the troll heads with light up eyes and some common wear items like sling shot plastics, bridge decal, or the decal that goes on top of the troll mechs?

1 week later
#2637 5 years ago

Screw that, we want EPIC!!!!

Quoted from miggitymac:

So quiet here lately. Maybe that means Rick has an update or mini-update brewing for us .

#2654 5 years ago

Who's going to the Texas show and going to get some high def video up for us?


You guys should have a session at the Texas show, a 60 minute roundtable discussion with pro players talking about the game. We are all waiting for their insight.

#2660 5 years ago

Personally, I'm looking for a little more detailed feedback. We haven't heard at all from Roger Sharpe, just "approved". I guess I'd like details. The session with the journey etc sounds good too.

Quoted from PPS:

we already had Josh and Roger Sharpe playing it, so what exactly insight are you looking for

#2686 5 years ago

Am I the only person on Pinside that can't even wrap my head around why anyone would care what number their game is? I just can't believe this is even a thing. I see for sale posts on LE machines and one of the features will say low game number, to me it just seems like a new low. Especially considering they don't build the games in order!

Quoted from playernumber4:

I like the idea of the customer loyalty reward with first dibbs and matching game numbers.

#2695 5 years ago

Because the 'L" in "LE" stands for limited.

Quoted from tdunbar:

Why limit it if there is a demand for the LE's sems to be no logic in that

#2698 5 years ago

NOT TRUE!!! COME ON!!! You get a plaque AND a numbered game!!! A number!!! SO cool!

The best perk you get by buying the MMLE was the fact that you don't have to wait 6 extra months to get a game. I think the cab upgrades are a big deal, I'm still hoping for built in mantis style protectors (not cliffy, mantis )

Quoted from lowepg:

Hmmm. That explains a lot.

After reading Stern and JJP threads for the last year, I was beginning to think it was for "Lemming"

1 week later
#2795 5 years ago

Any chance of getting some production photos of the prototypes for the Texas show as they are being built? I think that would be interesting.

#2797 5 years ago

We are all looking forward to that as well.

Quoted from Pinballfantexas:

I'm sure there will be plenty of photo's & videos coming from the show.

#2807 5 years ago

I hope you're joking Please don't say they are going to be late. People are always saying they'd rather have them right as apposed to quick, but I want both.

Quoted from PPS:

late q2 ... ish.

#2818 5 years ago


Quoted from Packerjeff:

Hobbit coming in a year

#2826 5 years ago

It's a pretty short drive to Denver for the Pinball Showdown on April 11th

Quoted from lapean111:

Rick already mentioned there will be games at the Texas show later this month.

#2850 5 years ago

Or just ship the games

Quoted from TaTa:

Considering the Allentown show draws people from the most populated area of the country and Canada, he might want to build that teleporter!

#2857 5 years ago

The calm before the storm. We're (unfortunately not me) going to get our first public look at these things in less than two weeks. I'm thinking there will be a flood of pictures, videos, and reviews.

#2860 5 years ago

I kind of agree with you. I think the biggest issue is going to be people comparing the games to their MM, or the MM in their arcade. With the small amount of HUO low play and maybe HEP machines out there, I'm not sure anyone really knows or remembers what the game is supposed to feel like new.

Quoted from pezpunk:

the biggest bummer is going to be people nitpicking minute differences in gameplay between the 20 year old machine they once played and this brand new one. i mean not even two examples of a machine built at the same time ever play exactly alike ... i hope people remember that ...

#2865 5 years ago

Yes, if it's not it should be fixed to be.

Quoted from OlDirty:

Is it animated (bulbs & flashers) in the same whay as the original is?

#2869 5 years ago

Mantis protectors, not cliffys

#2872 5 years ago

That's what I thought too until Rick stated he was looking at providing Invisiglass for an up charge... The rubber thing is a bit much but I've been wrong before.

Quoted from pezpunk:

if you want white rubbers just install some white rubbers imo. a bunch of customization options (especially ones that are required in the middle of the build process) probably just add more confusion, time, and cost to the process than it could ever possibly be worth.

#2883 5 years ago

Rick also said he considered black trim, but it's not consistent so it won't be an option. Also, Rick hasn't posted in or started that thread.

#2886 5 years ago

That is a good point.

Quoted from pezpunk:

glass can be switched out at the end of the build process in like 15 seconds though.

#2889 5 years ago

Or if Mantis protectors were an LE feature....

Quoted from Craig:

unless all games were provided with protectors, making it a standard feature.

#2891 5 years ago


MANTIS protectors!!

#2927 5 years ago

For brand new play fields, you always want to use Mantis protectors if you can. They tend to fit inside the hole and not cover up any of the art while still protecting it.

Cliffys are great for most games, games that have seen some wear around the area, the Cliffy will cover the damage.

You wouldn't want a Cliffy on a brand new MM as it's brand new and Mantis has protectors available. I'm not playing a single game on mine until the protectors are in. (if they fit, I guess some people with repo play fields were having issues). The fit is the real reason we want these done at the factory, would be much easier for them than us.

Quoted from Skins:

They both offer a Merlin. Cliffy on top that covers the whole outline of the out hole. Mantis does the same but from the inside up to the playfield edge.

The mantis protector is very nice. It's laser etched to look like cobblestone. It also extends over the drawbridge hinge.

The mantis also has a moat popper protector. I'm not sure if cliff does.

#2947 5 years ago


Quoted from yotaxi125:

+1 would love to see an example

#2954 5 years ago

Very not interested in transparent rubber. Standard ole' black will be just fine.

#2965 5 years ago

I hope these transparent rubbers don't take off. I'm sure it affects play, the last thing I want to do is tear down a game I buy and replace the rubbers because these are on them.

#2968 5 years ago

We've got to talk about something while we wait. It's been a while since we heard something.

#2979 5 years ago

So, who's going to be in Texas on Friday and get us the first (decent) pics/video of this thing?

#2994 5 years ago

Did you guys get that castle destroy sequence nailed down? How about the LEDs and that strobe issue?

Is there anything you guys are still working on / any outstanding issues at this point? Any word on the trim? Are the games going to Texas LE or standard cabs? Is the HQ audio there yet?

Quoted from PPS:

Two MMR's are on their way down to TPF right now, so they are in transit ... so there will be plenty of info on them as they will be setup for play somewhere on the floor ...


#2996 5 years ago

It would be worse if nobody asked any questions

Quoted from yotaxi125:

Rick is liable to turn this truck right around and go home if you don't pipe down back there, mister

#3005 5 years ago

Yes, I was being funny. But on the other hand, if the game isn't perfect, best to tell us now. The last thing I want to see are 2 pages of refake idiots with "I told you so's."

I'm assuming this is the final, 100% completed game, but maybe not.

Quoted from yotaxi125:

I assumed you were just being funny, but those answers will be obvious to those lucky enough to be at the festival this weekend (YES, I'm jealous...)

meanwhile, 6 days until Q2........

#3010 5 years ago

Just throwing this out there. Why can't it be good and on time?

Quoted from pezpunk:

why are you obsessed with the Q2 date? i won't mind a bit if it's late as long as it's good.

#3039 5 years ago

Who's got 2 thumbs and one thumbs up for an HD video upload? This guy.

Quoted from miggitymac:

I can't wait to see how many thumbs up the person who uploads MMR HD video gets...

#3050 5 years ago

Come to Denver in 2 weeks!

#3060 5 years ago

Any chance of video recording the session and throwing it on youtube for those that can't be at the show?

Quoted from PPS:

As many of you know PPS will be doing a seminar on Saturday at TPF, and of course MMR will be a larger part of the session - Doug Duba (Chicago Gaming president) will be with me at that session, as you know Chicago Gaming has been driving the design and manufacture of the MMR.

To that end - if you have any questions - Please EMAIL ME (as I am on a plane in a few hours so will not be tracking pinside during the weekend) questions that you would like us to answer and I will do our best to either incorporate that in our comments in the session or try to answer at the end of the session or worse case after the session.


#3119 5 years ago

I was thinking that to, unless they see or know something subtle that we aren't picking up on.

Quoted from pezpunk:

looks like the pinball news item is mistaken. on another thread people posted images of original ramp versus MMR's and nobody could tell a difference.

#3143 5 years ago

MM14 is going to turn the original into the refake.

Quoted from lowepg:

Hear that sucking sound?

That's the air whooshing out of the "Original MM" market....

Congrats PPS.... this thing looks like a winner!

#3151 5 years ago

The hardware fully supports a color display, it's a software update. Is that what you are asking?

Quoted from Maddog:

Ditto. Please clarify, update or upgrade software to colorize display, big difference. No go no buy. Great Job, looks great plays great!!

#3190 5 years ago

It does, it's not quite right. The leftmost tower in the original is a lot further down when the castle is done flailing before it is reset.

Quoted from yotaxi125:

Not to be a stickler, but anyone think that the sequence still has a little ways to go to match the original?

#3229 5 years ago


How does the new MM smell? Does it smell like a brand new MM or like a cheap refake? What have you guys done to make sure it smells just like an original NIB MM?

#3239 5 years ago

For me, if the choice of smell doesn't feel right combined with one of the 12 tones of red trim options available, I'm going to have to wait and buy a HUO for $2,700.

Quoted from miggitymac:

Will the lumber for the cabinets and playfield be harvested from the same geographical region or ideally the same exact forests as the original?

If not, I'm out!

#3269 5 years ago

Give us something Photos of production, some more video of gameplay, something. Otherwise, this thread is basically going to die until the end of May when the games turn up in public again.

#3271 5 years ago

No kidding, right? I think so far we have literally one 45 second video.

Quoted from PPS:

so we were assuming that with all of that exposure there, there would be plenty of video ... so APB for all cell phone video of the game please post ...

#3278 5 years ago

You seem to have a lot of video in 1min chunks, did you record the whole thing? Can you upload the seminar in it's entirety?

Quoted from PinballHog:

Here is another video from the seminar.

2 weeks later
#3297 5 years ago

I'm not sure I'd bet against all the MMLE's being shipped before all the WOZLE's.

#3302 5 years ago

Any chance we are going to see what it looks like in black any time soon? That was announced as an official color choice, wasn't it?

#3317 5 years ago

For this project to be on track, the first production game needs to leave Chicago on or before June 30th.

#3356 5 years ago

Boy, the Allentown people are a loud bunch Last time I checked, there were no plans to be at Allentown, and it's never been announced they would be at Allentown. I'm not sure why some people had that expectation.

#3358 5 years ago

Hey, since you won't be at Allentown, any chance you'll have a couple MM's at my mother in laws birthday party on Friday? There is almost no way you can't, the games might end up in a couple family photos with TONS of hype.

If you need some help with setup, let me know.

#3381 5 years ago

Maybe you guys need to start another thread?

#3486 5 years ago

GREAT updates!! I love the fact that I can adjust the LED behavior, and even though I don't care much I'm sure lots of people are happy that you can control the color of the display.

The fact that you've highlighted the current castle display sequence doesn't seem like a big deal, but to me it means that not only is feedback important but so is the attention to details. To me, that's a big deal. GREAT job on that. either.

As far as the trim goes, it's by the far the least important detail to me. However, whoever chose those gold and black trim colors just missed the mark. I'd be perfectly happy with chrome, and I'm not sure why you guys are having such a hard time finding an aesthetically appealing tone/texture (heavy emphasis on durability maybe?). But, they don't look great. I don't care that they don't, but in my opinion they don't.

Keep up the EXCELLENT work. I would keep the trim options to stainless and chrome, that way people feel like they got an upgrade without all the hassle of getting the textures and colors right.

#3498 5 years ago

Have you ever played a WPC game at a pinball show? Nothing wrong with WPC games, but they aren't the shiznit you think they are. Plenty of weak WPC flippers at shows that works better in the owners homes.

Quoted from viper001:

Why isn't anyone asking why there is now a flipper strength setting in the software? The original games used something WMS called "Fliptronics II" which controlled the coil strength to the flippers, and even compensated when the normally open end-of-stroke switches went out of adjustment.

#3501 5 years ago

WPC games are susceptible to the exact same flipper issues at shows that the MMLE's were. I'm not sure why you think otherwise.

Quoted from viper001:

WMS games are known to have strong flippers as long as the flipper linkages and related hardware are not sloppy and worn out. And they never required a menu setting to achieve it. It would be nice to see strong flippers demonstrated over the course of an entire show, with continuous play, before we declare this a non-issue. Not just to be told by the builder that its not an issue...

#3507 5 years ago

Just wondering. Do you think for a second MMLE will be released with the flippers not working? Not even Teekee thinks that.

You actually have to be shown that the flippers work because of line issues at the Texas Pinball Festival?

You do realize the absurdity of what you are saying, right?

Quoted from viper001:

I agree with you. The difference being WPC games have also proven time and time again they can have strong flippers at shows. Something that has only been verbally promised so far on MMr. I guess I should be living in Missouri as I'm just more of a "Show Me" kind of a person versus just excepting a promise. Plus, I think even the diehard fans here have to be wondering why the 2 MMr games weren't just moved to another area of the Texas show where the power was better versus there being several days of excuses given, or has that not occurred to anyone but me?

For the record I'm NOT hoping for Rick to fail. I think what they did to give the adjustable timing on the lights to make them look like incandescents was inspired genius as it makes both sides happy. But all of this design and engineering will be for not if the games have (and then develop a reputation) for having wimpy flippers.

#3569 5 years ago

Maybe in a new "look at my TOM" thread? We have hundreds of pictures of what MM looks like in black, not sure what your TOM looks like is relevant here.

Quoted from cleland:

I just took all of this to my powder coater to be done in "wet black" for my Theatre of Magic, I'll let you know the results of a gloss black powder coat.

I honestly can't tell if your trolling or not. I think you are, but I'm just not sure. LOTR, a top 10 game (for many, not me) that sometimes requires a little bigger coil isn't exactly a show stopper. We have MORE options and MORE control over things like flipper strength and this is a problem for you? (notice the keyword, "more"). So, if MMLE gets put on a weak circuit, that's it for you? Maybe someone will do us a favor and unplug the game when you walk up. That way you can see how broken it is, get some closure, and move on.

Quoted from viper001:

Yes. Not because I don't trust Rick, but because Rick is a salesman, and I've known too many salesmen.

I honestly hope this is a non-issue, the next show will tell the tale regardless. I would be happy to be proven wrong, I just know that in the past 25 years since everyone went to electronic flippers many folks didn't get it right (LOTR anyone?). There is a fine line between strong coils and melted coils, and this is Chicago Gaming's second game they have ever designed...

#3581 5 years ago

Give em' and inch and they take a mile. We need a good ole' fashioned delay, or major issue, or something else of value to talk about other than these pesky side rails.

Quoted from pezpunk:

a year ago people woulda been ecstatic with a players-condition MM (stainless steel trim) for that price. now here we are getting a newly manufactured game that has triple-redundant LEDs with software-controlled incandescent emulation, a color LCD in place of the DMD, designed for a software-extensible ruleset, and three options for trim. but we can't stop whining about the black being mottled versus polished. makes me wonder if anything will ever be enough for us

#3584 5 years ago

I think his point was that we spent probably 50% of this thread talking about 5% worth of value. Nobody said that people shouldn't expect quality, and a nice looking game, trim included.

It was just a lot of pages, and a lot of opinions on what in the grand scheme of things is not a big deal.

At the end of the day, it's an $8K game. If it costs someone $500 to get that perfect trim after market we're talking about 6% of the purchase price.

However, I have no idea how much it costs to get something powder coated, I've never wanted to.

Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Nope, a year ago I would not buy a beat up game . Today I am going to pay 8k for this and probably a few more . So yeah, I am going on a bit about it. You may be one of those guys who says thank you world for whatever but I like to maximize my benefit.
Many of us like certain features it's certainly why the re stored ones have them.
This is competing with those choices and we are asking for the feature. As mentioned it gets our business today and tomorrow.
Too bad you are content taking whatever folks give you. When you learn to ask or at least hold out for what you really want you may get a few nicer things in life.

If you don't care let it go but calling folks whiners is a but pissy.

#3648 5 years ago

I think we need a separate MM14 trim thread... That way we can get the info without having to sort through 40 posts of trim feedback.

Just release the game with no trim...

#3652 5 years ago

LOL. So sorry to personally offend you By all means, carry on with this wonderful trim discussion.

Quoted from chooch:

There is a separate thread just for info and updates.


So feel free to follow that instead of this thread if it bothers you so much. Somehow I don't think you will be missed.

#3662 5 years ago

Wow, brass looks like ass

#3668 5 years ago

So, anyone going to PAGG next weekend planning on taking a few games of decent HD video of this thing? Since the Texas guys let us down in that department...

#3673 5 years ago

Don't take it personally. It's just the trim of a pinball machine. If you're happy with it, what else matters? While I don't like it, I just thought my post was a cleaver rhyme, hence the smily face. Same with the other guy, just making a joke. No big deal.

Quoted from FullBlown:

Jkdblaze... Not sure why the nasty comment??
To each their own.. Are we not adults here?

#3700 5 years ago

I'm surprised chrome isn't being considered. Its an LE version on stainless

#3730 5 years ago

New rails are only $47.


Quoted from viper001:

But can the rails be removed without damaging the rails themselves?

An even $50 if you need the tape.


I wouldn't worry too much. In fact, if I were to change the rail color I'd probably order another set just so my game isn't down during the process.

#3737 5 years ago

I'm really looking forward to the new LED code being displayed at PAGG. You've told us about that, and the updated castle sequence, is there anything else new people should be on the lookout for?

Has the high quality audio been implemented? Maybe the PAGG guys will let you get a group of guys together 30 minutes before they open or close so people can play and be able to hear the upgraded audio.

At this point, what's left? Anything?

I'd love to see gameplay video with the new LED behavior on all settings, and also a walk through of some of the different operator adjustments (like display color, flipper strength, LED behavior etc..).

Also, is the brightness of the LEDs adjustable? Did we ever confirm that one way or the other.

#3739 5 years ago

I believe it was mentioned in the TPF video posted earlier. I could be wrong though.

Quoted from pezpunk:

To my knowledge they haven't mentioned the LED brightness being adjustable, just the level of fade between on/off for incandescent simulation. Seems to me max brightness level would be cake by comparison -- probably just a matter of coding it in.

#3740 5 years ago

Here is where it's mentioned that the LEDs will have brightness settings, copy and past I don't think the embedded youtube works with the time option: