(Topic ID: 67443)

MMR PPS and Overall Update - Official PPS (Oct 21, 2013)


By PPS

6 years ago



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#3451 5 years ago

Looks to me he went pitted to match the finish on the coin door. I was also assuming smooth powder black, but the more I look at it the more I am coming around to it. Can't wait to see it at PAGG.

#3452 5 years ago

I like the black to match the coin door also will match the hinges , but would prefer the smooth black . But still Very cool and exciting !

18
#3453 5 years ago

My goal if there are any future games is to have zero options

#3454 5 years ago

I always thought a lot of Pinsiders were being very petty when critiquing this machine. But, the black powder coat chosen seems to be a legit concern. IMO, it looks too industrial like and not like an elite LE machine. I thought it was pretty obvious from previous posts that most preferred a smooth gloss black finish. I still like the machine and am keeping my order but, I think I'll just be sticking with the stainless. Still, thanks for your efforts, PPS!

#3455 5 years ago

I was hoping for a black metallic.... something like Pristmatic's Lazer Black

http://www.prismaticpowders.com/gallery/detail/4702/Prismatic-Lazer-Black/

Thats a finish that I feel is fitting of an LE. Something that will really pop. Similar to the Transformers LE colors or the Blue Avengers LE. Some sparkle with the color.

#3456 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

My goal if there are any future games is to have zero options

I was out until you added the black trim. At an LE price point getting those few special touches makes sense to me.
If AFM as an example comes out and there are no color options I will end up finding one redone the way I like. But If I can have new, with those options you will get my money every time!

We are a pain in the arse, but one willing to spend ; )

#3457 5 years ago
Quoted from turbo20lbs:

Whoever is in charge of the trim color options over at PPS, needs to be fired. Seriously first the mustard gold powder coat, and now for black they go with Stern Pro crinkle black?
For black all you had to do is go with the regular gloss black powder coat.
If I stay on this pre-order it looks like my only choice would be regular stainless.

I agree. The black in the pictures looks plain like Stern Pros or maybe even worse. It would be a whole lot better looking as a glossy powder coat black. The Stainless steel original is better looking on MM IMO.

#3458 5 years ago
Quoted from jasonpaulbauer:

I was hoping for a black metallic.... something like Pristmatic's Lazer Black

I have to agree that this would look great and much better than the selected black (I'm still in for black over the other two options).

Rick, thanks for keeping the info coming. Looking forward to the MMR release.

#3459 5 years ago

F this shit. Stainless is the only option for me at this point. I foresee chrome or a glossy black powdercoat on trim in my future.

J/K about the F this shit part. But I do kinda feel like that with the trim colors

#3460 5 years ago
Quoted from taz:

That's always an option of course, but it appears that a majority of people on this thread believe an LE of this cost shouldn't need to be repainted immediately. Smooth black did look awesome in some earlier photos. Thankfully, there's still a small chance to provide feedback which is helping PPS put together a great game.

Even if it just came stainless there would be no *need* to ever repaint it. Need and want are very different things.

14
#3461 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

My goal if there are any future games is to have zero options

I'd be down with the goal being to skip all this LE bullshit and just build machines to sell to people.

#3462 5 years ago

I have to agree, the pitted black choice is puzzling...metallic gloss black is the winner. I'm going stainless if these are the final options.

#3463 5 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Woo. The incandescent emulation looks fantastic. Hallelujah!

Agreed!

Quoted from jasonpaulbauer:

I was hoping for a black metallic.... something like Pristmatic's Lazer Black
http://www.prismaticpowders.com/gallery/detail/4702/Prismatic-Lazer-Black/
Thats a finish that I feel is fitting of an LE. Something that will really pop. Similar to the Transformers LE colors or the Blue Avengers LE. Some sparkle with the color.

This is my exact thought as well, in fact I was looking at the same swatches before I saw your post because I was hoping/expecting for powder coat quality of WOZECLE. Here is another powder-coat black that is smooth but seems relatively smudge-proof... though I couldn't quite find one with gold flecks

http://www.prismaticpowders.com/gallery/detail/4741/Prismatic-Black-Metallic/

While it's very difficult to tell from online pics is the gold trim on MMr like this? It does not look mustard colored:

http://www.prismaticpowders.com/gallery/detail/3582/Prismatic-Prismatic-Gold-with-Clear-Vision-top-coat/

#3464 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'd be down with the goal being to skip all this LE bullshit and just build machines to sell to people.

trust me ... we're getting there whether it be LE/Std, Trim options, etc - the first game will generate the learnings for the next if there are next ... so we've already learned the key things for next time ...

#3465 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

trust me ... we're getting there whether it be LE/Std, Trim options, etc - the first game will generate the learnings for the next if there are next ... so we've already learned the key things for next time ...

You've handled everything pretty damn well so far. Just gotta do the hard part and actually build and ship them!

#3466 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

trust me ... we're getting there whether it be LE/Std, Trim options, etc - the first game will generate the learnings for the next if there are next ...

You mean if there are next after MB CC BBB & AFM

#3467 5 years ago

If the trim needs a powder coat... I would think the masses preference would be the best choice. More people with their preferences (gold? black? purple?) would certainly mean more sales and happier customers. IMHO

#3468 5 years ago

BTW Rick... I'm sure I speak for a lot of Pinheads. We really appreciate you bringing your MMr to the pinball events for show & feedback.
Thanks Kerry

#3469 5 years ago

Did anyone like the gold trim in person? Maybe I'm crazy but from most of the pics I think it looks pretty cool. Looks like it's got some sparkle in it...like a gold version of what Stern did for Metallica LE.

Rick - why does the black variation have that pitted look to it?

#3470 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

My goal if there are any future games is to have zero options

I understand having options has to provide frustrations for you all at PPS. I don't understand how it is a big ask to provide customers paying $8K+ for a remake with some options like type of glass (standard or something like invisiglass) and trim color. What you see as mistake may be for the best even if it causes some headache(s). With all the new pin buying options this type of dedication to customers could very well distinguish you from others manufacturers and generate more buyers in the end.

Of course there are way more important details then the trim color I think most understand that. So far you guys have done a great job in developing the remake and handling dialogue with the community. Many of these machines are going into collectors homes offering a few options on such a high priced remake shows you care about us picky pinball addicts. I can assure you it definitely doesn't/wont hurt your chances of getting more of my money in the future if you do end up remaking more.

#3471 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Did anyone like the gold trim in person? Maybe I'm crazy but from most of the pics I think it looks pretty cool. Looks like it's got some sparkle in it...like a gold version of what Stern did for Metallica LE.
Rick - why does the black variation have that pitted look to it?

I've wavered on the mustard. Part of me likes it.... No sparkle that I remember, just flat mustard gold. I think brettbutler posted some good pics of it in one the tpf threads.

#3472 5 years ago

I'll ask again, is there ANYONE that has seen the gold in person at a show that is choosing to get it? I'd like to know. I'd love to choose gold but if no one who has seen it in person is getting it then that is telling me something.

#3473 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

the first game will generate the learnings for the next if there are next ... so we've already learned the key things for next time ...

Oh there will be a next buddy or else....

mafia-gangs-accueil.jpg

#3474 5 years ago

Thank you; the LED fading setting and software adjustable flipper strength are key to me (the LED's especially).

The trim color is what it is, we can imagine nicer possibilities but what has been shown is not terrible.

The "old" stern crinkle finish is actually a pretty high quality product. It does not seem to chip and scratch unless you specifically attack it. After 10 years of commercial service I would take a Stern with crinkle finish over one of their glossy smooth finish options... that seem to chip and mark easier as well as go out of their way to show every scratch.

And have things come so far that basic stainless steel is considered a bad option? What was the last game that had that (WoZ standard? Prior to that.... what?).

If I was going to gripe on one thing is that the rails should be the "lollipop" style, I would pay a bit extra for that

#3475 5 years ago

Rick, can you advise as to what the backbox "tub" is made from and the thickness? Reason I am asking is I have seen tubs like this in other styles of machines and after 5 or so years they dry out, crack, are crappy looking!

#3476 5 years ago
Quoted from meSz:

Rick, can you advise as to what the backbox "tub" is made from and the thickness? Reason I am asking is I have seen tubs like this in other styles of machines and after 5 or so years they dry out, crack, are crappy looking!

Those tubs also had hotter bulbs in them, and were on commercially (often 24/7 for years on end) I assume? I am also assuming HOU ones have held up better... but could be wrong.

#3477 5 years ago
Quoted from meSz:

Rick, can you advise as to what the backbox "tub" is made from and the thickness? Reason I am asking is I have seen tubs like this in other styles of machines and after 5 or so years they dry out, crack, are crappy looking!

The tubs are same specs as before ... they crack and got yellow primarily because of the heat of the incandescents (and hot WPC95 boardsets) which have been removed ... they will be fine.

rick

#3478 5 years ago

Rick,

You are a throw back to the days when businesses actually communicated with their customers/potential customers. I hope on God's green earth there will be many more games past MMR from PPS.

Thanks!

#3479 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'll ask again, is there ANYONE that has seen the gold in person at a show that is choosing to get it? I'd like to know. I'd love to choose gold but if no one who has seen it in person is getting it then that is telling me something.

There are supposed to be some MMRs at pagg, which I'm going to. It's not for a couple more weeks but I'll let you know.

#3480 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'll ask again, is there ANYONE that has seen the gold in person at a show that is choosing to get it? I'd like to know. I'd love to choose gold but if no one who has seen it in person is getting it then that is telling me something.

I'll also be at PAGG to see these, I'll give the forum all the input I can.

#3481 5 years ago

Rick this is a big thank you to your diligence and care of the MMR Remake.
The continuing dialog with your customers such as myself that like many others have been along for the ride from the get go. I find it very exciting coming on Pinside to check on the latest updates and just thinking wow!
This Rick guy is going over the top to make sure this project is a complete success! I'll be heading to the Seattle show to see the machine trim packages first hand to make my decision. It's a 3 hour drive but for me it will be worth it.
IMO Rick has gone far beyond the call of duty. He's smart. Rick knows if he gets this one right he can easily repeat the success in following titles from what he has learned from this adventure.
Again from myself Rick another Big Thank You!
Looking forward to receiving my MMRLE later this year.

#3482 5 years ago
Quoted from btw75:

I've wavered on the mustard. Part of me likes it.... No sparkle that I remember, just flat mustard gold. I think brettbutler posted some good pics of it in one the tpf threads.

It looks like it has a bit of sparkle in it in those new pics on the PPS blog. Is this different than what it was at the show? That doesn't look like mustard to me.

MMR_gold.jpg

#3483 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'll ask again, is there ANYONE that has seen the gold in person at a show that is choosing to get it? I'd like to know. I'd love to choose gold but if no one who has seen it in person is getting it then that is telling me something.

I saw the gold in person at TPF. Although at first it did not blow my socks off (I agree that it's more mustard than sparkly gold) I'm now preferring it over other options.

I'm going to NWPAS in early june where they'll have both black and gold trims before final decision but gold's my #1 choice right now

#3484 5 years ago

I'm gonna go with gold. If I don't really care for it I switch it with some custom powder coating. Not a big deal. I'm more concerned about the game playing perfect. And from what I have seen it does.

#3485 5 years ago

PPS should just ship sample trim pieces to the shows- that seems to be the only issue folks have with it

#3486 5 years ago

GREAT updates!! I love the fact that I can adjust the LED behavior, and even though I don't care much I'm sure lots of people are happy that you can control the color of the display.

The fact that you've highlighted the current castle display sequence doesn't seem like a big deal, but to me it means that not only is feedback important but so is the attention to details. To me, that's a big deal. GREAT job on that. either.

As far as the trim goes, it's by the far the least important detail to me. However, whoever chose those gold and black trim colors just missed the mark. I'd be perfectly happy with chrome, and I'm not sure why you guys are having such a hard time finding an aesthetically appealing tone/texture (heavy emphasis on durability maybe?). But, they don't look great. I don't care that they don't, but in my opinion they don't.

Keep up the EXCELLENT work. I would keep the trim options to stainless and chrome, that way people feel like they got an upgrade without all the hassle of getting the textures and colors right.

15
#3487 5 years ago

texture on the trim is important as otherwise the most simple scratch will be a return ... and would not surprise me if in one or more cases the customer would demand exchange of the game ... if it's smooth finish, would show up any metal imperfections, which would then generate more ... there are many many considerations. I will see about getting a gloss black version to see how that is.

rick

#3488 5 years ago

Here's to hoping the gloss black turns out great!!!

#3489 5 years ago

Is this pin almost golden status?

#3490 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It looks like it has a bit of sparkle in it in those new pics on the PPS blog. Is this different than what it was at the show? That doesn't look like mustard to me.

It doesn't look like plain mustard, I agree. It looks like dijon mustard.

-1
#3491 5 years ago

Why isn't anyone asking why there is now a flipper strength setting in the software? The original games used something WMS called "Fliptronics II" which controlled the coil strength to the flippers, and even compensated when the normally open end-of-stroke switches went out of adjustment. I know there are no Fliptronics boards in these new games but I assumed all that logic had been replicated in the new system. If not this should be of much more concern to buyers than the color of some angle iron on the cabinet...

Say what you will about the old WPC boardset, but they did contain the culmination of decades of engineering and tweaking by WMS and Bally engineers who had a lot of practical experience with driving coils in a game.

#3492 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

I will see about getting a gloss black version to see how that is.

Great news... Thanks Rick!

#3493 5 years ago

after installing LED OCD in my two Williams games, I am totally spoiled for standard LED behavior. The fact that PPS is incorporating fade (and adjustable to boot!) is really a fantastic surprise. These are going to look better than any original ever did.

#3494 5 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

Why isn't anyone asking why there is now a flipper strength setting in the software? The original games used something WMS called "Fliptronics II" which controlled the coil strength to the flippers, and even compensated when the normally open end-of-stroke switches went out of adjustment. I know there are no Fliptronics boards in these new games but I assumed all that logic had been replicated in the new system. If not this should be of much more concern to buyers than the color of some angle iron on the cabinet...
Say what you will about the old WPC boardset, but they did contain the culmination of decades of engineering and tweaking by WMS and Bally engineers who had a lot of practical experience with driving coils in a game.

Oh the horror!!

Kyle, you have an original which is the way you like it. Those of us who don't think this is pretty cool. Appreciate you looking out for us but I think we're good.

12
#3495 5 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

Say what you will about the old WPC boardset, but they did contain the culmination of decades of engineering and tweaking by WMS and Bally engineers who had a lot of practical experience with driving coils in a game.

Too bad they ignored the GI connectors. ( and other stuff ).

LTG : )™

#3496 5 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

Why isn't anyone asking why there is now a flipper strength setting in the software?

I'm too lazy to go find it but I'm pretty sure the OP addressed this. They were having issues with varying voltages at different locations, or something along those lines.

Edit: I found it. It was on the MMR site and not in this thread. Here's the quote off the site:

#2) Flipper Strength Adjustment – now in the control panel! We learned this at the TPF show with the variations in voltage, so now flipper coil strength can be adjusted up/down via the control panel! Settings will be 0 from the factory and you can adjust up/down from there!

#3497 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

texture on the trim is important as otherwise the most simple scratch will be a return ... and would not surprise me if in one or more cases the customer would demand exchange of the game ... if it's smooth finish, would show up any metal imperfections, which would then generate more ... there are many many considerations. I will see about getting a gloss black version to see how that is.
rick

Smooth Gloss Black would be best! I don't like the crinkle pinball 2000 black trim.....you're getting closer though

Stern's powder coating is smooth and no problems with theirs......other than a lot of orange peel sometimes...but that's a whole different story.

#3498 5 years ago

Have you ever played a WPC game at a pinball show? Nothing wrong with WPC games, but they aren't the shiznit you think they are. Plenty of weak WPC flippers at shows that works better in the owners homes.

Quoted from viper001:

Why isn't anyone asking why there is now a flipper strength setting in the software? The original games used something WMS called "Fliptronics II" which controlled the coil strength to the flippers, and even compensated when the normally open end-of-stroke switches went out of adjustment.

#3499 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Too bad they ignored the GI connectors. ( and other stuff ).
LTG : )™

Agreed Lloyd. Rick has already demonstrated his games will be superior in many technical regards to WPC. My point is what was already pretty good in that boardset that has been discarded in this new design, namely the driving of the flipper coils. WMS games are known to have strong flippers as long as the flipper linkages and related hardware are not sloppy and worn out. And they never required a menu setting to achieve it. It would be nice to see strong flippers demonstrated over the course of an entire show, with continuous play, before we declare this a non-issue. Not just to be told by the builder that its not an issue...

#3500 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

texture on the trim is important as otherwise the most simple scratch will be a return ... and would not surprise me if in one or more cases the customer would demand exchange of the game ... if it's smooth finish, would show up any metal imperfections, which would then generate more ... there are many many considerations. I will see about getting a gloss black version to see how that is.
rick

This is a valid concern but look at it this way, Stern feels comfortable using single-coat glossy powder coat in their Premium and LE games. Yes they can scratch if not careful (I have a Stern that came directly from the factory scratched under the lock-bar), but as has been testified to on Pinside if the powder coat was higher quality, thicker/multi-stage/cleared that issue tends to go away. In other words if Stern isn't worried about returns with their thin powder coat, should it be a concern to you if you know your powder coating is a higher quality?

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