(Topic ID: 67443)

MMR PPS and Overall Update - Official PPS (Oct 21, 2013)

By PPS

10 years ago


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There are 5,463 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 110.
#251 10 years ago

All ... I'm back from ALL day (8-8) of meetings, etc so just checking things ... I'm not sure how to nicely say this on pinside, but will all the posts its a little exhausting to figure out the questions vs the dialog, so I looked thru a couple of pages and caught some of the questions:

- PPS license code discussion: we have several agreements with WMS, but what I am trying to do as we had mentioned in the seminar is two things: a) be able to modify and release 'fix' versions which fix annoying things in the code, and then it needs to be controlled (usually 'sold' with holograms on the chips is the way that WMS has preferred and does not add much to the cost). b) support major code changes/completions - which is a little more tricky as there is more to check, more to manage, more time to spend. I think we have a framework with WMS legal as to how we can do this and discussed further with their attorneys at the show - who were interested enough in pinball to show up and were pretty excited about the MMR reaction, etc - which is good ...

- Things like CC code extensions, I have a compile of CC with extensions that was done years ago, not sure exactly which extensions, but I think many of the missing completion stuff. So, IF hypethetically if there were a CC remake (which I'm not saying there is anything), then the original code, or the extension would be the base, and then possibly we could do more if there was a good way to do more in order to 'complete' the game. Given I'm not really sure what that is and what it would cost, no idea.

- Licenses ... usually cost money unfortunately, so just about anything 3rd party costs more ...

- Jelly Bellies are used by BAA, so if we were to come up with some candy it would be proprietary to PPS.

- For selling spots, I'm not sure, really haven't looked into it. Perhaps we have ways to find things out and work behind the scenes to stop and reverse things ... but who knows what we know and don't know. But we don't support this and that's about it.

- Where best to 'stand in line' for an LE, I think most distributors who had LE allocations have several lists that are longer than their allottment, so I think wait lists may be past due. Standards are offered and earlier the order the earlier the place in the build sequence.

- The game is emulating the original code - it is running that way.

- We do not have the 'how are completed games going to be distributed' - ideally in the most efficient way, but so long as the right games go to the right customers that's a good start

- The little board in the top replaces what used to be called the CPU and Audio/Visual board functionality I would say is a fair statement - this 'lonely' board is about 6" square ... we probably need something else in there to make it look 'busy' ... maybe some backbox 'wall paper' to make it look like it's crammed with electrical components ...

#252 10 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

we probably need something else in there to make it look 'busy' ... maybe some backbox 'wall paper' to make it look like it's crammed with electrical components ...

How about an LCD monitor inside the backbox, behind the tub, that would let us display different Williams boards complete with connector burn on the GI?

#253 10 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

All ... I'm back from ALL day (8-8) of meetings, etc so just checking things ... I'm not sure how to nicely say this on pinside, but will all the posts its a little exhausting to figure out the questions vs the dialog, so I looked thru a couple of pages and caught some of the questions:
- PPS license code discussion: we have several agreements with WMS, but what I am trying to do as we had mentioned in the seminar is two things: a) be able to modify and release 'fix' versions which fix annoying things in the code, and then it needs to be controlled (usually 'sold' with holograms on the chips is the way that WMS has preferred and does not add much to the cost). b) support major code changes/completions - which is a little more tricky as there is more to check, more to manage, more time to spend. I think we have a framework with WMS legal as to how we can do this and discussed further with their attorneys at the show - who were interested enough in pinball to show up and were pretty excited about the MMR reaction, etc - which is good ...
- Things like CC code extensions, I have a compile of CC with extensions that was done years ago, not sure exactly which extensions, but I think many of the missing completion stuff. So, IF hypethetically if there were a CC remake (which I'm not saying there is anything), then the original code, or the extension would be the base, and then possibly we could do more if there was a good way to do more in order to 'complete' the game. Given I'm not really sure what that is and what it would cost, no idea.
- Licenses ... usually cost money unfortunately, so just about anything 3rd party costs more ...
- Jelly Bellies are used by BAA, so if we were to come up with some candy it would be proprietary to PPS.
- For selling spots, I'm not sure, really haven't looked into it. Perhaps we have ways to find things out and work behind the scenes to stop and reverse things ... but who knows what we know and don't know. But we don't support this and that's about it.
- Where best to 'stand in line' for an LE, I think most distributors who had LE allocations have several lists that are longer than their allottment, so I think wait lists may be past due. Standards are offered and earlier the order the earlier the place in the build sequence.
- The game is emulating the original code - it is running that way.
- We do not have the 'how are completed games going to be distributed' - ideally in the most efficient way, but so long as the right games go to the right customers that's a good start
- The little board in the top replaces what used to be called the CPU and Audio/Visual board functionality I would say is a fair statement - this 'lonely' board is about 6" square ... we probably need something else in there to make it look 'busy' ... maybe some backbox 'wall paper' to make it look like it's crammed with electrical components ...

Thanks for the update.

#254 10 years ago

I was thinking the same thing too - some wallpaper of the original boards in the backbox....

#255 10 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

- The little board in the top replaces what used to be called the CPU and Audio/Visual board functionality I would say is a fair statement - this 'lonely' board is about 6" square ... we probably need something else in there to make it look 'busy' ... maybe some backbox 'wall paper' to make it look like it's crammed with electrical components ...

A picture of a Williams MM backbox glued to the back with the small board mounted in an unused board spot on the picture.

LTG : )

#256 10 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

The little board in the top replaces what used to be called the CPU and Audio/Visual board functionality I would say is a fair statement - this 'lonely' board is about 6" square ... we probably need something else in there to make it look 'busy' ... maybe some backbox 'wall paper' to make it look like it's crammed with electrical components

Hang the manual and potentially a goodie bag in there if it comes with one.

#257 10 years ago
Quoted from PinballInc:

The new machines will NOT have Pinball Inc ramps in them. The ramps in the new machines will NOT be made using the original tooling (although it does exist and is in perfect condition). The new machines will have "cheaper" ramps and under no condition would we ever make a "cheaper" ramp...period.

PPS this was from another MMR thread can you comment on this?

#258 10 years ago

I'm not sure if this has been asked before however will the backbox have a tube or an animated aray of bulbs?

#259 10 years ago

All, YES, if you received a message from mmr_orders1@ or mmr_orders2@ planetarypinball.com then these are the email addresses for order confirmations, etc. We own the domains planetarypinball.com and pinball.com so at least usually if a message comes from there with MMR in it, it is from us ...

Also, pinside mail, while it is great just adds yet another thing I need to do ... and I really don't need additional things to do - please send to the below address, but realize that there is more email than can be handled right now ...

[email protected]

#260 10 years ago

Please tell us if the game will have original backbox lighting with flashers and lots of beautiful 555 bulbs (or leds). I would think this would be a requirement to make the game look the same as the original?

#261 10 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

- Jelly Bellies are used by BAA, so if we were to come up with some candy it would be proprietary to PPS.

Have you guys considered open source candy?

Proprietary candy is old and busted. Seriously.

#262 10 years ago

I didn't read all of the posts in this thread. Is the std. The same price as the LE?

#263 10 years ago
Quoted from TronGuy:

I didn't read all of the posts in this thread. Is the std. The same price as the LE?

yes.

#264 10 years ago

Ok, as I see it the following questions have yet to be answered. If you skipped past some because you weren't at liberty to divulge yet, I understand. I figure you may have over looked a few so I consolidated them here. Again, thanks for all the answers thus far. I combined questions in separate some cases. Side note, I did my best to cull everyone's questions that may have not been answered but I may have missed some or listed some with answers already. Apologies in advance. As things are answered, I will remove them but leave the numbering the same.

2. GOLD TONE TRIM: More detail here would be nice. IE: Brass, gold, plated, clear coated.

3. SHAKER: Since the original game was not designed to use a shaker, how will the shaker be implemented into the remake?

5. Tell me more about the boardset. Is it all surface mount? Are/will replacement boards be available? Who from? At what estimated cost? Will new board be required for simple repairs (eg, led not working)

6. It appears that most of the board sets are under the playfield. Can you briefly explain why you abandoned the backbox for these items?

7. Is there a light tub in the back box or fluorescent tube, ala Stern?

9. Will the playfield be the same # ply's as original. Is the same true for cabinet construction? I know their history but CB makes current Stern playfields, correct? They've cheaped out recently and gone to 7-ply wood, and there does seem to be a bit more flex in recent playfields.

11. Is there latency concerns with running an emulated version of the game?

13. Will the sub be better than original, not requiring an upgrade to Pinball Pro etc.

#265 10 years ago

2. Gold Tone - we are testing out a number of different finishes to find the one that will best represent a good a durable and 'not easily scratched finish'
3. The shaker will be tied into the control logic for the game - primarily the castle
5. Primarily surface mount, not sure about if/where there are thru hole. Of course replacement boards will be available, have no idea on the estimated cost, don't know what fault would be able to simply fixed or not as that is too non-specific
6. The driver is below the playfield, the rest is above the playfield. Driver is closer to the components it controls
7. woudl be LED's in the backbox - some combination of individual, strips, etc
9. More on this later, but not sure # of plys = quality - I think we looked at original and is 6 ply? We will get an update on this, but I think the answer is that we will employ the best wood as a result of Churchill Cabinet's expertise, knowledge and history in this field.
11. Not at this time.
13. The audio would be better.

#266 10 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

11. Is there latency concerns with running an emulated version of the game?

Skins, can you elaborate on this question/concern a little bit?

#267 10 years ago
Quoted from PinballInc:

The new machines will NOT have Pinball Inc ramps in them. The ramps in the new machines will NOT be made using the original tooling (although it does exist and is in perfect condition). The new machines will have "cheaper" ramps and under no condition would we ever make a "cheaper" ramp...period.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

PPS this was from another MMR thread can you comment on this?

This question didn't make it into Skins' summary, but would be interested to hear more on this as well. Thanks!

#268 10 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

9. Will the playfield be the same # ply's as original. Is the same true for cabinet construction? I know their history but CB makes current Stern playfields, correct? They've cheaped out recently and gone to 7-ply wood, and there does seem to be a bit more flex in recent playfields.

Original Medieval Madness and Stern's playfields are both 7-ply.

#269 10 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

I'm not sure how to nicely say this on pinside, but will all the posts its a little exhausting to figure out the questions vs the dialog, so I looked thru a couple of pages and caught some of the questions:

Rick has been nice enough to take time to start this thread and answer questions about MMR. You can see by his comments that he is weary from reading through off topic banter irrelevant to the intent of the thread. Let's keep this on topic so we don't miss out on getting important questions answered.

To bring back an old RGP saying "Flame Suit on!"

Ed Z

#270 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

License holders WANT to issue licenses. That's how they make money.

Exactly.

#271 10 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

2. Gold Tone - we are testing out a number of different finishes to find the one that will best represent a good a durable and 'not easily scratched finish'
3. The shaker will be tied into the control logic for the game - primarily the castle
5. Primarily surface mount, not sure about if/where there are thru hole. Of course replacement boards will be available, have no idea on the estimated cost, don't know what fault would be able to simply fixed or not as that is too non-specific
6. The driver is below the playfield, the rest is above the playfield. Driver is closer to the components it controls
7. woudl be LED's in the backbox - some combination of individual, strips, etc
9. More on this later, but not sure # of plys = quality - I think we looked at original and is 6 ply? We will get an update on this, but I think the answer is that we will employ the best wood as a result of Churchill Cabinet's expertise, knowledge and history in this field.
11. Not at this time.
13. The audio would be better.

Thanks Rick. Very Straight forward answers. That is appreciated.

#272 10 years ago

I would like to see the gold be matte finish. Kinda like gold stainless. Steel.

#273 10 years ago

Couple more that may have not been answered succinctly or not asked previously. Again, a HUGE thank you for responding to our flood of questions.

1. This was kind of asked before but I want to ask it in a different way. Are the components such as wireforms, playfields, playfield plastics, the castle etc., off the shelf PPS parts that a medieval owner would have ordered for his 1997 machine prior to your remake announcement? IE they are one in the same?
2. Who is manufacturing the items listed above that you have not already sourced? All one place or multiple vendors?
3. Hopefully one last on the board sets. Who designed them, Chicago Coin?
4. Will the cabinets have metal cabinet protectors, ala stern to protect the next gen decals?
5. Not sure if this was entirely answered. Will the led lighting be socketed? If not, will a whole board have to be replaced if a light goes out?
6. You answered that the backbox will have LEDs but didn't mention if it is going to be a light tub and translate like the 1997 version.
7. Pictures please! Preferably some close-ups of the underside of the playfield.

18
#274 10 years ago

Rick - firstly, thank you for taking on this endeavour. Obviously, as evidenced by the pinball community's reaction, this has been a huge success. I wish you nothing but the best in your efforts to make this a great remake of an awesome game. You have helped get this classic into many people's hands that could not otherwise afford it.

Second, as big of a pain in the ass this email thread has likely been for you - it is a HUGE help to customers. It allows us to get clarification on issues that concern us (on a relatively big purchase for many of us). But it also can be a big benefit to you guys as we can offer some good ideas and suggestions that can help the product down the road (e.g. adding metal leg protectors to keep the legs off the decals to prevent wrinkling).

Again THANK YOU Rick.

Stern should take notes from Rick on how to communicate with clients. Treat people well. Treat them like partners and we will partner with you. Treat us with contempt and it will bite you in the ass on day.

#275 10 years ago

Yeah, I've had bad experience with parts of BAA before, but this thread is full of epic win in terms of communication as far as I'm concerned.

#276 10 years ago

Thank You for the updates it is appreciated.

#277 10 years ago

I also want to add my THANKS to Rick for looking at and responding to our questions. It is much appreciated!

#278 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Universal Monsters is a super easy license to get.
They have shoes, facial tissue, paper plates, you name it, licensed from them.
If you think about it, "Universal Monsters" have not made a movie since 1960 - so that is a lot of successful licensing deals around that kids still know who the characters are today; 50 years latter .

They are 82 years old from conception - Dracula was 1931.

#279 10 years ago

Will these pinballs have a region protection built in and how do you plan to accommodate the difference in country voltages and hertz?

#280 10 years ago

Original MM had flashers mounted in the backbox tub, doubled up with playfield flashers. Will these flashers exist in the new game?

#281 10 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

Universal Monsters is a super easy license to get.

The children now own the rights. I'll ask Sara Karloff and Ron Chaney about it this weekend at the Chiller con.
I believe the 3 are represented by the same company (Lugosi, Chaney and Karloff)

#282 10 years ago

We've learned from Farsight the ballpark number for these licenses. ~$50k doesn't seem like a lot of cash to make the project happen.

10
#283 10 years ago

this thread is a great example of how a company should treat customers and potential customers. thanks again for the direct answers.

#284 10 years ago

Agreed, thanks for all the information, keep it coming Rick!

Cant wait to playing MMR middle of next year!

#285 10 years ago

...and I can't wait for the AFM announcement....

#286 10 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

The children now own the rights. I'll ask Sara Karloff and Ron Chaney about it this weekend at the Chiller con.
I believe the 3 are represented by the same company (Lugosi, Chaney and Karloff)

Universal owns the movie rights and makeup likeness rights, so it would still have to be through universal.

#287 10 years ago

There was another 'list' above, so a couple of answers:

1. Many of the components are off the shelf ... of course this is a remake of MM, so most everything except what's different is same.
2. That's not something we disclose
3. Yes
4. Not sure, I'd have to ask the guys in Chicago
5. Some of the lighting wll be socketed, some will be in replaceable units.
6. Currently has a tub to light the translite.

11
#288 10 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

4. Will the cabinets have metal cabinet protectors, ala stern to protect the next gen decals?

Quoted from PPS:

4. Not sure, I'd have to ask the guys in Chicago

Those decal protectors are the best innovation that Stern ever came up with. You guys should definitely look into them.

#289 10 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Those decal protectors are the best innovation that Stern ever came up with. You guys should definitely look into them.

I'd have to say that I agree with this wholeheartedly. If they don't come included I would definitely get some before assembling the game.

#290 10 years ago

I think you can just use some mylar as well.

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MFT

Or something like this:

ebay.com link: Flipper Button Guard Cabinet Protector Set Clear

Quoted from Triumvirat73:

I'd have to say that I agree with this wholeheartedly. If they don't come included I would definitely get some before assembling the game.

#291 10 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Have you guys considered open source candy?
Proprietary candy is old and busted. Seriously.

Will they replace High Fructose Corn Syrup with Splenda? I mean, seriously, that is the way to go these days.

#292 10 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Those decal protectors are the best innovation that Stern ever came up with. You guys should definitely look into them.

It seems to me that they did that based on all the complaints/warranty claims due to wrinkled decals. Seems like good insurance, but not a terribly big deal to put them on myself.

Thanks Rick - I'm proud to have purchased through you (assuming I get a reply on the game # soon so I can send my check in time!). I think you've provided enough for now and can probably ignore us and get to the fun part of getting the games ready to go.

Thanks again.

#293 10 years ago

Mylar keeps the decals from bubbling?

#294 10 years ago

Rick - will flashers be LED? If so, will they be 906/89 sockets or boards?

Will the playfield "slide-out" hardware be the same as original or something new?

Thanks!

#295 10 years ago

Hi Rick. Are the shipping start dates a rough guess estimate or pretty accurate?

#296 10 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Hi Rick. Are the shipping start dates a rough guess estimate or pretty accurate?

A bit impatient are we Ted?

I kid, I'm very anxious too.

#297 10 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

- The game is emulating the original code - it is running that way.

I know there are those that know more about this than me, but can someone please explain what emulating actually means?

#298 10 years ago

and Ted's not even purchasing one

#299 10 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

I think you can just use some mylar as well.
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MFT
Or something like this:
Ebay link

Guys I think that they are talking about the metal leg protectors, not an actual mylar or anything like that. I put those metal leg protectors on my TFLE and they worked great...no decal wrinkle

#300 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I know there are those that know more about this than me, but can someone explain what emulating actually means?

Thanks Webster

em·u·lat·edem·u·lat·ing
CloseStyle: MLA APA ChicagoFull Definition of EMULATE
1a : to strive to equal or excel b : imitate; especially : to imitate by means of an emulator
2: to equal or approach equality with

Example of EMULATE
She grew up emulating her sports heroes.

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