So what happens when someone buying game one doesn't want game two but wants the same number on game three, but the buyer of game two wants that number on game three also?

Seriously, isn't it a huge hassle to try and make an extra buck or two with something silly like this?

"Oh wait, that's right LEs are dumb, let's just build games!"

I would assume the buyer of game 1 would lose their right to that numbered game if they don't purchase the next game in line!!! So buyer of game 1 has no right to the same numbered game for game 3 if they don't purchase game 2.

I'm okay with that, as long as they don't announce a LE version then change their mind before production starts, or because a bunch of people are pissing and moaning that they're paying the same for the standard because they didn't get in on the LE.

By all means, standards only and save me a few bucks and give me a better chance to own these games.

I've never been a fan of the LE thing. That seems to be where the dissention on these forums really started to manifest with the whole "my games better than yours" mentality. It brings out childishness here. The MMR announcement is a perfect case of this. I believe if PPS was just building an unlimited run of remakes (no LE), much of the bickering and headaches would have never come about (sure there would still be some). In that case you simply have the choice then to get one early or later, either way its the same game.

Where has there ever been a statement made that standards would save anyone any money? The precedent has been set that folks will pay the same $$ for the standard, where would be his incentive to lower the price on future titles?

One game, one price. Let the owner put any number they want on it. Let them pimp it out any way they see fit. Wouldn't that get more games into the marketplace quicker?

This really isn't that difficult guys. I'm in on MMRLE. When game 2 is announced, I will get a call/email from who I bought it from to see if I want game 2. I'll probably have a week or two to put down a deposit. If I say yes, then the number of the MMRLE I bought comes out of the available queue. I guess the drawback for some would be that you wouldn't have the choice to get a different number if you wanted?

I think the week or two from announcement to when the available queue is offered is a good thing. It gives people who may want one some extra time to think about if they really want it or to line up finances, etc.

You guys have waaaaaaay too much time on your hands....

LOL Rick, after reading the rest of the responses, I take back my comment.

Calling it a logistical nightmare was a huge understatement, lol.

I say do away with the serial numbers, be a trendsetter.

That's what I wonder about.

As the manufacturer, I think you have to first ask yourself how many additional sales do you expect to get by letting people keep their machine number? Then second, are the potential additional sales (if any) worth the additional overhead?

Actually, I think those questions should have been considered (perhaps they were) when people were allowed to choose their game number for MMr.

Personally, there are a few games numbers I would consider special (#1, #7, #1000, anniversary date, etc...). If I had one of those numbers I would want to keep it but having a special number or not will not influence my purchase of a game.

My point is, it could lead to nothing but a cluster f. If Rick doesn't mind dealing with said cluster f and he makes some additional money by doing this, more power to him. Same goes for the LE's and all the trim options.

Me, I'd make the game and sell the game. You get what you get and I'm able to keep my sanity.

I have Illinois Pinball BBB number 16. Special numbers didn't cost anything extra, they were just available to whoever asked first for that specific number (although the first several numbers weren't available as they were reserved for Gene's family and close friends). I got number 16 because I got my deposit in fast. There was a mailing years later looking for people to preorder Capcom Kingpin that said BBB owners could be guaranteed the same number Kingpin as their BBB. Price on Kingpin was $7500 with 150 preorders needed in order to proceed. Production did not happen, so it doesn't look like they got the required 150. No wonder Rick at PPS didn't expect 1,000 MMrLEs at $8K each to sell out in a day at Expo.

I'm sorry, is this a JJP discussion thread? Or did we get lost somewhere?

The incentive is to sell more games.

I have to agree with a lot of what has already been said...if there is a second remake, scrap the LE version and just make one quality pin that is available to everyone. If you insist on an LE, then there needs to be some good LE features, and a standard version should cost less than the LE. That is a big fail in my opinion with MMR...that the LE and Standard are the same price...doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me...

I don't think the number thing has anything to do with income to PPS from the number itself, it's about trying to earn customer loyalty by doing all the little things that make people feel special. Why do full service restaurants exist? Customers are perfectly capable of ordering food at a counter and bringing it to their table... and wait staff are hardly paid well for the effort to do so, but customers obviously appreciate that extra attention.

For me the LE thing is an unfortunate segmentation of what would otherwise be a unified game experience, yet one can't overlook the amount of "sight unseen" purchases it brings in, and trophy-like treatment these games are given by the customers who get one. This, of course, ignores the fact that in the end, all pinball machines have limited runs, and in the case of Stern (and I predict, PPS), ironically there seems to more LE models manufactured than Pro models.

How about a reasonable priced second pin, standard edition. Some people have more money to burn than others, so they can ring Rick with any special requests e.g. gold trim, triple clear coat, numbered plaques, whatever. He gives them a quote for their "individual" LE, and they decide how much they want this.
Gary Stern was saying Aaron Spellings wife wanted a LE pinball for him only, and paid $250K for it, a one off. For us mortals, $6-7K for a machine is fine without waiting for more "elite"machines.
Disclaimer - i have a MMrLE ordered, but one LE will do me.

this le garbage is getting old fast. one model, one price, just do it right and the sales will follow. who created this pretentious shit? and why perpetuate it? there are more le versions of games then standards in many titles.

Le's are for suckers

Just call me El Suckundo!

Hold on Ted let me get out my translator

I still like the pin2k concept to keep costs and space requirements down. If PPS incorporated that into their design would be bomb. Nice MMr cabinet with 4 or 5 repro play fields/games at half the cost.

Are people arguing about LEs that don't exist yet? And on how a LE ordering system works that also does not exist?

Rick -In response to which game to do next if done....MB
Purely from a money making stand point -MB demand is equal to if not greater than AFM or CC.
Merchandise wise it would reach well beyond pinball - shirts - other like merchandise.
Guys that want a machine would buy > 1000 and those that dont want the machine would love cool MB stuff.

Over all money maker machine and beyond MB
AFM only from machine stand point if thats the goal, 2k machine run.
If you want to just run under 2k, if that is a workable model:

CC like it or not is an unfinished machine that has stalled in the resale market even with under 1k out there.
TOTAN is another just ripe for the pickings but needs code work all other major parts have are out or can be made easy.

*****Now if you really want to kill it - Funhouse with DMD - that would be a 4k run of machines easy and merchandise beyond that would be just gravy on top. This to me would put PP on the map as a true player in the market place. It would be a remake yet new and no Williams name just PP. All major parts are available now or could be rerun (PFs).

Tell that to the guys who bought Tron LE, BIBLE, LTBRLE, LOTRLE, WOZLE. You spend your dime and you take your chances. If you come out ahead it offsets for the depreciation you usually get in your standard games. Free pinball is a win as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes you might even come out ahead. And they are easier to resell. So thats why it is perpetuated.

if the next pin is awesome, i would totally dig an LE and have a matching #.

simpsons-mob-torches.jpg

I plan to get all of the possibly upcoming remakes, and think it would be cool if the "number" on all mine matched (the collector in me...plus I like organization). Matching numbers wouldn't truly affect my final decision to purchase a pin, but it would be a cool perk that I would opt for if it's offered.

I am interested in remakes of AFM and a CCC compatible CC.

Don't care too much about matching numbers, because the number I picked for MMR really only has significance to me from an MM standpoint (97, the year of the original release), but I would much prefer to do away with plaque numbers after MMR (and WOZ/TH/STLE).

I think the whole LE thing has gotten a bit silly. If a manufacturer is going to make a "bling" or extra feature version for the home/collector market, fine. But don't have more than two models - one for a base/operator and one for a home user/collector.

I have a Hulk LE and a Star Trek LE, and I couldn't even tell you what #s they were, and they definitely don't match, so I don't need my MMRLE # to match those either, or any future PPS LEs I might by to match. Just my opinion.

LEs sell games, period. It encourages people to place their money down early. If Rick or any other manufacturer wants to do it, who cares. Buy a standard edition if it irks you.

Variety in pinball preference is one of the things that makes it so interesting. Personally, I like the idea of a matching # on my MMRLE and AFMRLE. While certainly not critical it would just be one more thing to add the growing list of cool stuff for the LE owners. Thanks for all your efforts Rick.

"LE is the new poo, so take a big whiff."

You're kidding yourself if you think it'll change anytime soon. Why? Not because of the manufacturers, but because of the fawning BUYERS tripping over each other to buy them (sometimes YEaRS before delivery). So "who created this pretentious shit"? We did.

You have all the powers:
Buy one..... Or not.

That's it. End of story. Rick or Jack or Gary don't force people to buy anything. And people don't force them to make it. Some people want to pay a little extra to say they have something limited.

Especially if the differences are more than just cosmetic (and more than an easily added shaker).

Stop making sense! These threads would be almost empty.

Isn't that the truth!

Actually, my reason for paying more for an LE would be because I like the additional features that it has and/or I like the way it looks the best.

My preference would be for the manufacturer to make an unlimited amount of that model and sell them at a lower price!

But a true collector resides in Europe and imports his LE pinballs from USA and can this way pay real_money_ for his pins (add on top shipping costs and VAT 24 %)

You've got the idea. A single vision tends to be more cohesive than majority-based opinions.

So true. To be fair though, Rick did ask for those opinions.

LOL, well my preference is for them to give them away free to us in an unlimited amount.

I'd be in for CCR. That's Cactus Canyon Remake, not the old rock band. CCR would need to come with CCC features.

Personally I think the luster is wearing off the LE's for some buyers. Some good debate if Star Trek warranted the +3k on a LE package. WOZ - I wouldn't do a JJP LE again as the game play is the same on all models. On that note I don't like the idea of cutting something out of a game and then charging 75% of the crippled game to get the features back in again on an "LE"........ Or go ahead and do it on the LE's, but put the actual true cost on BOM in to get the features back, call it a premium without the "number" and LE card and I'd pay the difference for sure. And again personally think I might be done with the LE NIB regardless. Too much depreciation. Unless its a game I'd live with forever (or +5 years) with 100% certainty - like maybe Muppetts. Not much else right now I'd even consider in that category. I don't need a game to appreciate ever, but am realizing with all the games coming out now there is no longer a "rush" and for me to take a big hit on losing value in the first 18 to 24 months makes no sense.

And last thought - the more money the LE's make the less "limited" they're truly going to become. That's what I'd do if I was JJP and Stern and whoever else. They abuse us as much as we allow them to.

patience grasshopper

Rick, It would be great to have the option of adding an audio connection jack for headphone direct from the factory, have you thought about this?

this isn't a bad idea, but why can't they also pay our mortgages? what are they, greedy?

I am totally pumped. I think I'm going to receive my WOZ, Predator and MMR all on the same day. My head is going to explode!!

Holy crap, Hobbypinball -- The Muppets would be an amazing theme for a pin. For the love of Kermit, won't someone make this happen?

+1