(Topic ID: 67443)

MMR PPS and Overall Update - Official PPS (Oct 21, 2013)


By PPS

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by pmWolf
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There are 5463 posts in this topic. You are on page 39 of 110.
#1901 5 years ago

i would rather you call the emotional support hotline 408-891-7878 to understand what the need is ... standing by ...

#1902 5 years ago

Any chance your guy in Chicago can borrow an iPhone 5 or 5s and take some 1080p video in landscape mode of a decent 11 or 12 minute game with trolls etc? Please.

Quoted from PPS:

i would rather you call the emotional support hotline 408-891-7878 to understand what the need is ... standing by ...

#1903 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Any chance your guy in Chicago can borrow an iPhone 5 or 5s and take some 1080p video in landscape mode of a decent 11 or 12 minute game with trolls etc? Please.

Funny thing is if I was rick I'd wait...
If there is a high res video posted it's just going to be more things for people to speculate and complain about

#1904 5 years ago

Rick is smart.

He's going to dole out snippets of information, spread out nicely, so that he can keep the conversations going and this thread on the front page.

He is keeping us informed on a regular basis much better than the other manufacturers.

Stay tuned.

13
#1905 5 years ago

I think I get bonus Karma points for 2000 post threads! More frequent flyer miles for me!

#1906 5 years ago

Rick, you're doing a great job informing us on what's going on and supplying your cell but have many people even rang you on it after complaining on here?

#1907 5 years ago
Quoted from WIKED:

Rick, you're doing a great job informing us on what's going on and supplying your cell but have many people even rang you on it after complaining on here?

I bet not. Most are just keyboard tough guys. Like me!

#1908 5 years ago

2 people have called ... one about MMR questions (not a heckler). The second had some issues with us for awhile (wasn't an MMR customer) and took advantage to call and hash it out (which I appreciated!) - we had a long chat and I dare say at the end of the call we are on pretty friendly terms, so I was glad he calls as he's high profile on the forum and looks to contributing more than harassing more ... but otherwise no, it's a lonely existance waiting for these calls ...

#1909 5 years ago

I may call just to keep you company....

#1910 5 years ago

The game could end up a perfect remake and there still will be morons making threads about the castle being a tenth of a second off.

#1911 5 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

and there still will be morons making threads about the castle being a tenth of a second off.

Oh gee, I hope it's not THAT far off....

#1912 5 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

The game could end up a perfect remake and there still will be morons making threads about the castle being a tenth of a second off.

If its any more than 1/20th of a second off... IM OUT!

#1913 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

If its any more than 1/20th of a second off... IM OUT!

my wife tells me the same thing :/

#1914 5 years ago

I always pull out.....wait...what?

#1915 5 years ago

I didn't worry about the video that was posted. Once it is approved by Williams then I will be looking at the latest info and video and then make my decision to go ahead with the order or get a refund. Up until then I am not bothered anymore about anything on the machine. Each to their own on this though. Thanks Rick for your work on the machine.

If this turns out great I hope you will be doing other remakes and I will be on board for those also.

#1916 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

it will be emulating original code. The game looks and plays fine, they need to clean up the castle destruction sequence and fix a timing issue with the LEDs, but there will be no issues.

Then they don't need to call it hardware emulation. They're just scripting the rules like Pinball Arcade (who also claims they are doing hardware emulation), which is fine as long as it plays 100% like the original game. Emulation means you are running a virtual WPC-95 machine running the original binary WPC-95 code. If this were the case there would be no "tweaks" to make. It would just work.

#1917 5 years ago

I'm not sure about your statement. From the info that's been released, WPC-95 is running behind the scenes. However, WPC-95 is looking for original hardware, you can't just emulate it, you need something to convert the signals going to the original hardware to their new hardware.

It's a lot harder than you think.

Quoted from Crash:

Then they don't need to call it hardware emulation. They're just scripting the rules like Pinball Arcade (who also claims they are doing hardware emulation), which is fine as long as it plays 100% like the original game. Emulation means you are running a virtual WPC-95 machine running the original binary WPC-95 code. If this were the case there would be no "tweaks" to make. It would just work.

#1918 5 years ago

Well it's all a bit ambiguous. An emulator, with some hacks, can interface to any physical external devices and trick the virtual WPC-95 machine into thinking it's connected to a real switch matrix, A/V board, driver board, etc. A good example are game console emulators. Typically you can run these using software emulation of the original components or though a hack that utilizes the host machine's hardware in some way. If this is really emulation, I seriously doubt everything is done using LLE (low level emulation) through software on the CPU. Another example is the discussion of implementing high quality music and sound. That would exceed the capabilities of the original DCS DSP, meaning an HLE (high level emulation) hack would need to be implemented to support such a change.

Things like the above, the color LCD, absence of a switch and lamp matrix, and other enhancements would make hardware emulation unfeasible. It would be running so many hacks that you might as well just re-write the entire system in a modern language and compile a new environment for the physical board it's running on. That's why I'm a bit skeptical.

#1919 5 years ago

Nobody knows the details of the PPS contract, but it's not one of those situations where they can do whatever they want. They don't own the code, they license the code and that licensing agreement comes with restrictions nobody here knows about. For all we know, the pinball must run 100% original code that can't be modified.

Quoted from Crash:

It would be running so many hacks that you might as well just re-write the entire system in a modern language and compile a new environment for the physical board it's running on. That's why I'm a bit skeptical.

I'm not trying to claim I know the details, but I am saying you can't just say "well, the game emulator people did this" they don't have contracts and licensing agreements to abide by.

It's a lot harder and more complicated than you think.

#1920 5 years ago

LEGAL details, oh. Yes, who knows...

#1921 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

It's a lot harder and more complicated than you think.

It's really not hard or complicated, though there are a lot of details to think through. If the system is architected well, it can likely achieve a result that has no perceptible differences from the original and be implemented without touching a single piece of original code. If it's architected poorly, then certain challenges can't be overcome.

I have no knowledge of the particular implementation used in MMR, nor of the team that's developing it. I am, however, willing to help out if the need arises.

- Gerry

#1922 5 years ago

i think it's ridiculous to be like "if it's done right, it's EASY! i'll show em how!" the devil is in the details and everything seems so much easier from miles away. i'm also a software engineer, and if there's one thing i've learned in this trade, it's never trust the guy who says it's easy.

#1923 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

one thing i've learned in this trade, it's never trust the guy who says it's easy.

Easy for YOU to say....

#1924 5 years ago

Haha good one!

#1925 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

i think it's ridiculous to be like "if it's done right, it's EASY! i'll show em how!" the devil is in the details and everything seems so much easier from miles away. i'm also a software engineer, and if there's one thing i've learned in this trade, it's never trust the guy who says it's easy.

Having run original code on multiple WPC and WPC-95 machines, including MM, using a new hardware platform and an emulated software environment, I think I'm in a unique position to speak on this topic with some authority.

While developing pinMAME support for our P-ROC board, I tested the system running on an MM, AFM, ToM, JD, and LoTR (Stern Whitestar). Since then, many of our customers have successfully run emulated environments on numerous other machines.

We've also had a number of people work with us on researching the viability of rewiring an existing game with our PDB driver boards and using the P-ROC and PinMAME to play the original code. I assure you that most games can be made to work glitch-free without complicated enhancements to the emulation environment, and possibly without any enhancements at all (depending on the game). MM and AFM have no features that present difficult emulation challenges.

I don't want to derail this thread any more than this topic already has. Please contact me privately if you'd like to discuss any of this in more detail.

I respect Rick's efforts on this project and wish him and his team success. People have been wanting MM remakes for a long time now, and I'm happy to see it finally happening.

- Gerry
http://www.pinballcontrollers.com

#1926 5 years ago

Rick, I'm wondering if you guys are investigating the possibility of adding tournament software and maybe even a button very similar to what is found on newer Stern games? I have that on my Iron Man and it is VERY popular with guests when I set up the tournament software.

#1927 5 years ago
Quoted from Bay78:

Rick, I'm wondering if you guys are investigating the possibility of adding tournament software and maybe even a button very similar to what is found on newer Stern games? I have that on my Iron Man and it is VERY popular with guests when I set up the tournament software.

Would think that defeats the point of staying as true to the original as possible?

#1928 5 years ago

Is that to say that MM has no tournament mode? My other WB pins do; SS, CV, TZ and I think ToTAN. I would be very surprised if that is not already a software setting.

#1929 5 years ago
Quoted from Bay78:

Rick, I'm wondering if you guys are investigating the possibility of adding tournament software and maybe even a button very similar to what is found on newer Stern games? I have that on my Iron Man and it is VERY popular with guests when I set up the tournament software.

MM already has it, its one of hte hold the flipper button then start deals. dont remember exactly

#1930 5 years ago

Yes the WMS games from the mid '90s and up have it, but it is nowhere near as good as the Stern one. As for the button I don't really care if they add that or not, I'm just saying I think it would be cool and others I'm sure would as well to have a more in depth tournament mode like the Sterns have. If it is activated by holding down both flipper buttons instead of a seperate button perfect. I'm going to be happy either way , this would just be something cool to have when I run my big annual tournament.

#1932 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

i think it's ridiculous to be like "if it's done right, it's EASY! i'll show em how!" the devil is in the details and everything seems so much easier from miles away. i'm also a software engineer, and if there's one thing i've learned in this trade, it's never trust the guy who says it's easy.

Maybe. Except for one big difference:

He offered to help. That says a lot more than the 100 arm-chair quarterback tossing in their unqualified opinions.

#1934 5 years ago

-

#1937 5 years ago

-.-- --- ..- .-. / -- . -.. .. . ...- .- .-.. / -- .- -.. -. . ... ... / .. ... / .-- --- .-. - .... .-.. . ... ... / -. --- .--

#1939 5 years ago

indeed.

#1940 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

-.-- --- ..- .-. / -- . -.. .. . ...- .- .-.. / -- .- -.. -. . ... ... / .. ... / .-- --- .-. - .... .-.. . ... ... / -. --- .--

haha

#1941 5 years ago

01101001 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01101100 01101001 01100101 01110110 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011

#1942 5 years ago

.

all work and no play.jpg
#1943 5 years ago

- .... .- - ... . .- ... -.-- ..-. --- .-. -.-- --- ..- - --- ... .- -.--

#1944 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

01101001 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01101100 01101001 01100101 01110110 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011

I just had to see...

#1945 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

01101001 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01101100 01101001 01100101 01110110 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011

Yes I did covert it.

#1946 5 years ago

0100100100100000011011000110100101
10101101100101001000000110001001101
111011011110110001001110011001000000
1100001011011100110010000100000011000
100111010101110100011101000111001100101110

#1947 5 years ago

Lol....

Quoted from vid1900:

-.-- --- ..- .-. / -- . -.. .. . ...- .- .-.. / -- .- -.. -. . ... ... / .. ... / .-- --- .-. - .... .-.. . ... ... / -. --- .--

Lol x2

#1948 5 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

0100100100100000011011000110100101101011011001010010000001100010011011110110111101100010011100110010000001100001011011100110010000100000011000100111010101110100011101000111001100101110

There are 10 types of people who get binary, those that do and those that don't

#1949 5 years ago

SGFwcHkgbmV3IHllYXIgdG8gYWxsIHlvdSBuZXJkIHBpbmhlYWRz

#1950 5 years ago

Right about now Rick is saying to himself "I've got to post some new into before the whole thread derails and gets locked"

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