EM titles would sell "a" amount
Early SS titles would sell "b" amount
Late SS system titles would sell "c" amount
WPC titles would sell "d" amount
WPC95 titles would sell "e" amount

From a business perspective it's simply a question of profit and return on investment. I hate to say this, because I know you EM lovers are passionate, but there is a distinct increase in interest in later technology games. That is not a "diss" or anything, just a personal opinion.

*edit* as far as remakes would be concerned.

I think he means that making observations based on a small sample size is often misleading. I've heard this referred to as 'N=1'.

I was only speaking on my own experience. I believe these were brand new parts, as I know they were replaced. They very well may have been NOS, used, or repro. I don't really know. But I do know they broke after very little service.

EM pinball remade:

http://www.pinballnews.com/news/ems.html

Brad

I get the excitement but why would anyone remake TZ, IJ or CFTBL when there are plenty in the market at reasonable prices? It makes zero sense and it simply wont happen. Especially when factoring in the need for relicensing.

I'm guessing that there wouldn't be 1,000 buyers committing to buy in a few hours though. Just playing devil's advocate. Not downplaying the achievement.

Fingers crossed for the folks interested in the earlier games then! Collective hug?

What's the wire gauge? Looks beefy!

th-3-263.jpeg

People lump Stern and JJP together when throwing around the $8k price point. But the differences between an $8k JJP pin and an $8k Stern "LE" pin are huge. You get a *lot* of quality components in a JJP pin; a Stern LE gives you an extra coil or 2, an extra plastic toy or 2, and more pretty (and quite inexpensive) lights as compared to their far-cheaper "Pro" models. I'll pay $8k for a JJP game; I see little value and huge markups in the Stern LEs. Even the Premiums have ridiculous markups for what is added to them. I guess there's a market for everything.

BTW, will the troll mechs be beefed up a bit? I recall (I think) that the top plates sometimes dented a bit.

Yeah and they sold like 10 of them.

One thing I have noticed reading this forum. Some people don't care for or respect the history of pinball or the great machines of the past, especially if it was before their time. I believe you can have as much fun playing an old woodrail as a modern DMD game. I have a machine that is brand new, and one that is older than me, and all points in between. If you only dwell on one era, then you are missing out on the rest of this great hobby. IMO.

I'll let you know when I get an AFM.

One thing I've noticed about EM fans is they just can't accept the fact that many of us just find those games uninteresting and boring. I get that you like them, and would never want to take away your enjoyment...and I respect the design and artistry behind them and realize we wouldn't have "modern" games without them - but I can only play them as a curiosity - I've never really had a feeling of fun from them. I'm not alone in this opinion, and that's why MMr sold 1000 in 2 seconds and KoDr sold 10.

Then you probably would have not liked growing up when pinball was king. It was a simpler time without computers, cell phones, and all the other distractions of modern life. I respect your opinion, but I'm happy that I get to enjoy the entirety of this hobby, and I pity those that can't.

i-pity-da-fool.jpg

Space Ship please!

I enjoy all eras probably because my dad had a few em's in our basement when I was growing up. I still buy them and play them but I don't get all that attached then trade them out for something else. But I do think people are kind of missing out on some great machines especially em arcade games I think those are still better than anything with a monitor.

See that's what I mean...that attitude of pitying me?! Cuz I like a certain era of pinball machines? I don't pity you for liking EMs....I don't need your pity for liking what I like. Look man, it is what it is - I grew up in the 80's - I grew up as video games grew up...I like the bleeps and bloops and music and lights and sounds. My earliest pinball memories are probably F-14 Tomcat, High Speed & Elvira. I remember my dad playing pinball while I was playing Pac-Man & Donkey Kong. Had I grown up when video games didn't exist I'm sure EM pinballs would have been the coolest thing of all time to me....but I didn't and they aren't.

Also - just because I don't want to OWN EMs doesn't mean I don't appreciate them and respect them. I just don't think they're FUN. I'm entitled to that opinion. I'll play them if there's one in front of me at someone's house or at a show....but that's it. I don't want to buy them....and clearly the masses now spending tons of dough on pinball these days don't want to either....and they don't need your pity.

Dude, don't get so excited! I never asked for your opinion, but you threw me into a group of EM fans that can't accept your opinion. I never said that. It was only an observation that I have seen a lot of negative words towards EMs in general. You don't see me saying how crappy the stuff you like is. I don't care what you like, but I'm not going to say it sucks! Now excuse me while I go play Metallica.

See, you two do have one thing in common: METLE! Come on, peace brothers.

You started with this:

"One thing I have noticed reading this forum. Some people don't care for or respect the history of pinball or the great machines of the past, especially if it was before their time. I believe you can have as much fun playing an old woodrail as a modern DMD game"

I never insulted your tastes or said anything sucked...I was responding to this...that is all.

Then shall we play some Metallica?

Let's FRY THAT MATHAFACKAAAAAH!!!

I like it all!

I can understand how guys who grew up way past the EM era don't 'get EMs' the way others do. It has always been my goal to have a game from each 'era', and would like to add a wedgehead and woodrail when I can find space and the right machine. I think it is part of the history and they also have a play to them that can be fun and relaxing (and who doesn't enjoy a good drop target game).

I have also found that working on EM has given me tremendous respect for the guys who designed these 'computers' using relays, steppers and score motors. I've enjoyed learning about them and how to trouble shoot them. Part of that is the 'geek' in me, part of that is the 'pinball enthusiast'.

If you are an engineer or a software developer by trade, and you have never owned an EM, you should get one, at least for a little while, just to get a hands on experience with the early days of computing devices. You are really missing out if you don't.

Really, every pinhead should have an EM in their collection.

Less repairs than SS/DMD .

At Expo this year I played mostly only the EMs I'm into them takes me to a time way before me I'm only 20. I like the bells and clanking its more of a skill nudge game its fun to play. I really like all the old artwork and animated back glass. I played a game called cow poke and I fell in love with that one. I'm glad a lot of people don't find them fun I never have to wait in a line to play one and I will be able to pick some up cheaper then all these DMD pins one day.

I'm still a big fan of newer games but I love nostalgia too something my grandparents or their parents could have been playing when they were my age.

But watch out! If you get one of the real good ones, they may start to multiply faster than some of the newer titles, as they are usually more affordable.

Hey, if you're ever out east, maybe Gerry can introduce you to a couple of his buddies that live in PA!

If they don't enjoy the gameplay and sounds, then no - no they shouldn't.

How many EMs have you played? Or should I ask which EMs have you played?

um....isn't this the mmr update thread?

derailed.jpg

I don't like too many EM's but there are a couple good ones. Hot Shot is pretty good, almost bought one.

Back on track.

Can anyone come up with a list of any (if there are any) MM mods that will still work with MMR.

We know the color DMD will need to wait on them to come up with their solution, but what about other ones?

Merlin with the crystal ball light
Trolls with lit eyes
Castle window light
Dragon
any others I may not have thought of?

A ton! I played as many as I could at PPE. I've played them at friend's houses. Played some at PHOF. Like I said - I appreciate them, but 1 or 2 games is enough for me

I have two fairly new Troll carriages in my MM. I have three broken ones in the parts heap.

Nuff said.

Mirror blades look pretty good in an MM.

Well, that's enough for me. But If you'd like to stop by and try some of mine, you're more than welcome. Then we can do battle on METLE.

You should play more competitive pinball. At that point you don't need music, deep modes or flashy DMD animations... you just need to be better than your opponents at putting the ball where it needs to go for the most points. THAT is what pinball is truly about. Competitive pinball is so much better on EMs and older SS games because people don't have to wait 20 minutes for their turn. This is the main reason I recently grabbed a Mystic and BMX when they popped up locally.

There probably wouldn't even be a MMR if the others hadn't established an $8K pin market. Everyone (including PPS) knew there was a demand for a MM remake, but it wouldn't have been that profitable at a lower price.

Nah, he should do what makes him happy, and so should you. It's great that you like competitive pinball and EMs. It's fine that he doesn't.

I love my Card Whiz EM, and it isn't because it's a good competitive game. It's because I find it fun to play, especially when I want to relax.

When I want to read about MMr, I come here. When I want to read debates about whether EMs are fun, I go elsewhere.

I would like to hear some mods too... or even see some pics of them on here. Any pics of the above in a game would be great.

No.

Sooo...you want me to take out all the things I enjoy? No.

You can do that on modern-style games, too....but I have nothing to prove to anyone when playing pinball. I don't care to include sports-type rivalries in my geeky hobbies.

To you. To me, pinball is about enjoying the design/gameplay/theme/personality/music/lights/goals. Me vs. Machine. I don't play online video games either...I'm not interested in competing, I'm interested in the game experience.

Honestly, I don't really like waiting my turn even if it's a short balltime game like Tron. Throws off my momentum...I'd rather play my full 3 ball game in one go - then you can play.

Congrats! Enjoy!

Hey, if music and LEDs and DMDs are all he needs to stay happy with pinball right now, that's great. I was that way 10 years ago. The games themselves aren't enough after a while.. you need the social aspect, competitiveness.. and then EMs and SS games really shine. The straightforward rules and interesting playfield layouts are a breath of fresh air compared to the usual fan-layouts and recycled rulesets on modern games, and as I said before, you're not waiting forever for 3 opponents to get through their balls.

His loss, not mine

To whoever just dropped off the LE wait list I say thank you, sir. I just got in.

congrats!!!