In the spirit of trying to turn this thread back into a question and answer thread:

Are the boards going to be software/OS update-able? I can see the game being release and the 1,000 people finding something that wasn't caught in testing. I would be surprised if it wasn't, but timing tweaks, emulation tweaks etc I'm sure will be needed after release.

Rick said it would be updateable at Expo via USB.

Didn't Rick say production in April and hope for all games shipped by October 2014?

Fair enough. Didn't know that.

When's the flat-pak kit coming out?

I'd love to see a "do-it-yourself" MM kit. A precut cab to assemble, with all the goodies!

....now that would be a true hobbyist's pinball machine.

I tried to wade through the previous 14 pages and didn't see this question posed (or maybe I missed it):

What type of payment will be required for the $7k balance - cash, check, credit card?

I know this is on a lot of people's mind. Now, one could argue this is a Distributor specific question, however, PinballSales accepts credit card payments on my Hobbit pre-order, however, the $1k 'cash' deposit was required for the MM pre-order. Would just like a little clarification.

I would suggest not going into credit card debt for a pinball machine.

I wholeheartedly agree that one shouldn't go into debt for a pinball machine. However, just because someone wants to use a credit card, it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't afford it. I put everything on credit cards so that I can get the points, miles, etc ...

Automated took my CC for the first 1k and I assume they will for the remaining 7k... otherwise they are going to be losing a sale. Which honestly, wouldn't be the end of the world, since, no I can't afford it. However, I am grabbing the bull by the horns regardless.

This ^^

30 days interest free to pay off the balance, air miles/points/cash back/whatever else on $8k can add up to a pretty penny.

I'm doing the same thing. They were really responsive, so I followed thru with them and cancelled my other order with another distributor.

8,000 points for me is like 0.7 round trip tickets! That's worth about $135 to me.

Unfortunately that 1% you get back means another 2% into the credit card coffers from overall fees, which comes out of the retailer's pockets, which actually decreases the overall value of your dollar to 97%. Welcome to support of the machine.

Uh, I never said anything about going into credit card debt for a pinball machine. I simply asked what types of payments they are going to take for the final balance.

This is almost certainly distributor specific. For instance, I asked pinballsales.com and was told they will accept credit cards for the remainder, but MAY charge an extra 3% (so an extra $210) for doing so, to cover the credit card fees.

Ah, so if I don't use a credit card that'll fix everything? Good job pointing out the problem, but where is the solution? Everyone stop using credit cards? How about a realistic solution?

Yes and this would make useing CC an unwise choice. That adds on $210 to your balance. Pay with check and keep your $210. Whatever points you earn most likely won't make up for that amount.

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Just as a point of clarification, will we ALL be getting a confirmation from PPS or from our respective distributor?
Just not clear. I got my confirmation from Jack already. Will I get one from PPS?

He said "as far as the PPS LE orders" so I'm pretty sure this only applies if you ordered directly from PPS.

Used to be illegal to do that, but that changed at the start of this year (although still can't charge more then a 4% fee), however, it is still illegal in 10 states. Regardless, I'd rather see a discount for cash/check or maybe even a 'voucher' for parts, etc.

I have no issue with the Credit card companies charging a merchant a fee, it offers protection to them, gives them sales they might have otherwise not gotten and also protects the the consumer and the CC companies are entitled to make money on their services -- now saying the fees are too high (given the monopoly/collusion of the industry), is certainly a valid complaint/issue.

If that is the case, pinballsales could get in trouble and lose all use of the credit cards. Per agreements with the credit card companies, a business is not allowed to add a surcharge to a credit card holder for paying by credit card instead of cash. Now there is a way around it, but flat out saying that you will pay extra is a violation of the terms. Now companies are able to give a discount for paying cash.

Credit cards area great way to move money and protect yourself when shopping. I won't even shop stores that won't take American Express. I pay no interest but feel its much easier to use my card than manage losse cash and checking accounts. I get itemized tracking of all expenses and easily pay once a month to one person.
This crap with charging fees for use of a standardized pay system and charging for bags on travels etc. Is just fleecing us inch by inch.
8k for a game and there is not room in that to accommodate the price of doing business?
Sheesh

I have no problem paying a deposit via cash or check. Easy choice - do I want a MMR or not? If the distributor I choose to do business with only accepts cash/check so be it. I can choose to do or not to do business with that business. No big deal in my mind.

You will always find someone to Take Your Money in one form or another...

Yep the legally can charge you to use a surcharge and it's up to you whether to accept it.

If you pay by cash or check though, you are not afforded the same protection as a credit card. There are no charges to dispute, so if there is an issue, it's a more difficult process to recover the money.

Not saying it will happen of course, but it's there in case.

Very true. I have no worries with the vendor(s) asking for the cash/check and potential issues to recover the $ later. That's a calculated risk (I know the monetary exposure I would have) - and it's a lot better than the flood we recently experienced .

Credit card fees should just be a cost of doing business. It would be like:

pay for the machine
+ 10% rent
+ 5% electrical usage
+ 30% labor surcharge for assembly.

Or price your machine accordingly.

Like a repro BBB for example? Or an old MM, MP, Indy or AFM with new decals or playfields? "Fakes" all hmmm?

All fakes!

Also a lot of CC's (at least mine) double your warranty period. Pinball machines generally have small warranty periods anyways so doubling that doesn't do much. But it gives the consumer and extra level of protection, points that can be converted to cash, etc. I pay for everything and simply pay it off a few days before it's due every month.

In the CC industry they call someone who promptly pays off his bill and doesn't end up paying them interest charges a "deadbeat"... nice guys huh?

I for one will be more than happy with my 'fake' MM. Most of the people who play it won't even know I saved $7k. Shhhh!!

They've taken our livestock and treasured historical pinball machines! Get 'em!!

Like I said before I will take my new MM LE over and old and tired MM

Besides last time I checked Williams did not give a crap about pinball and they were making slots

No such thing as a fake pinball machine. If it looks like a pinball, sounds like a pinball, plays like a pinball, I say it's a pinball. Bally, Williams, DE, Sega, Stern, JJP, Gottlieb, Premiere, PPS, Chicago Coin, Sonic, Playmatic, it's all good!

A classic fake.

Brad

image.jpg

Did Rick start this thread about Credit cards or fake games?
I am sure he is tired of weeding through all the crap being posted just to answer the occasional question that pops up.

Rick, hopefully you can get those pictures up so we can all have a look. Of course things might change when Williams signs off on it but this will ease a few people in the meantime.

I will be putting on an original translite and speaker panel etc but I wouldn't like to see any PPS logo's anywhere on the game. Well on the outside anyway. If it's an exact remake of the original then that's what it should be (less Williams logo's).

Could we get the game number plate 'loose' and we can install it where we like?

Rick has already mentioned that the PP logo will be included somewhere. If I ran a company that was undertaking a project like this, I would want my logo on it too.

He stated his logo was a legal requirement, it's not about pride.

Really? Of course they will put their logo on it. I don't believe number plates were on the originals but I guess those are ok though?

I can see it now, people trying to convert their MMR's to originals. Let's see, put an NOS translite in so I don't have to see the PPS logo. I'll put security bar holes on the front of the cabinet. Then I'll re-wire the playfield so it has the original lamp sockets, and i'll buy a new harness and set of original boards to put in it, yah, that should do it .......

I know this is a long shot but is there any chance the OS will be open to change rules in the game by users/modders? I'm thinking P-ROC like here. Just a thought.

Pat.

Been answered

Of course not. Afterall why should he put it there especially since they are the ones reproducing them, paid all the licensing fee's that made it possible, gathered all the original Williams equipment to go fourth with the project, got CCC on board to do the woodwork again, made some advancement to board structures, sound system, decals,led lighting and most important of all: as of two weeks ago made it possible for you and others to now obtain a MM.

Yeah I can see your point.