(Topic ID: 67443)

MMR PPS and Overall Update - Official PPS (Oct 21, 2013)


By PPS

5 years ago



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#5401 4 years ago
Quoted from QuarterGrabber:

My distributor hasn't asked for the remainder of the payment yet either. He's thinking I will have it in my house in October sometime.

That seems like a realistic time frame.

#5402 4 years ago

I'm going to guess Monday August 25th or Monday September 1st is when these will start on the production line.. being it takes Stern to bang out 160 roughly per week... We should all be enjoying our MMRLE's sometime in mid October. A year exactly when the announcement was officially made about the remake.

50-70 days (delivered on or before Oct. 18th.)

I just also don't think at this point Rick want's to say as an example Aug. 25th, and for it to be delayed another week... He's probably waiting to make sure it's physically on the line without possibly disappointing any one from any type of unforeseen delay.

#5403 4 years ago
Quoted from mrclean:

I'm going to guess Monday August 25th or Monday September 1st is when these will start on the production line.. being it takes Stern to bang out 160 roughly per week... We should all be enjoying our MMRLE's sometime in mid October. A year exactly when the announcement was officially made about the remake.
50-70 days (delivered on or before Oct. 18th.)
I just also don't think at this point Rick want's to say as an example Aug. 25th, and for it to be delayed another week... He's probably waiting to make sure it's physically on the line without possibly disappointing any one from any type of unforeseen delay.

He doesn't need to give specific dates - I think hopefully everyone has learned their lessons there .. but at least some sort of an update since the last update time-frame has come and gone, and Rick has responded to just about every other inquiry since that time, except everyone asking for a production update. Right now everyone is just guessing because the communication has been pretty much excellent up until the last few weeks, which is just going to brew up a lot of bad things like a cancer (ala JJP) until at least a small update is given.

#5405 4 years ago

I tend to think that Rick wants some quantity of games to be in owners hands by expo, especially if he has any plans to announce a next title.

As others have said, you need every single part to be at Stern before production can begin (especially given the speed at which they can build the games). I would also believe they have to be all there before Stern would even schedule it.

#5406 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Lets see almost everyone in the pinball community could care less about it vs games which everyone brags about buying. Seems like a slight indicator towards flop.

Maybe. But this also seems to assume to a degree that Pinside is the only indicator of how popular a pin is. It isn't.

#5407 4 years ago

True but it's a nice cross sampling of general sentiment.

#5408 4 years ago
Quoted from Eryeal:

Rick has responded to just about every other inquiry since that time, except everyone asking for a production update.

Or those wanting to know why if PPS thinks so few will be impacted by lack of coin mechs, why they don't just ship them free to those that want them.

Or those that ask a question he doesn't want to answer.

(Or, in other words, you have nailed the reason I started this thread - poor (or selective) communication).

#5409 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

You could have said the same thing about Metallica or Star Trek LEs, and those sold out quickly. So I think looking at LE sales is definitely one indicator of health.

I think for an LE to have killer sales, there has to be something about the LE that really appeals to the hardcore fans of the license and/or have something SUPER DUPER COOL about it. For AC/DC, it was Back in Black (and Let There Be Rock). The specificity of a killer song, backglass & the lasercut rails were enough to make AC/DC fans go "COOL!!!" and snag 'em. Same with Master of Puppets...that's just an ultimate favorite for Metallica fans. Star Trek - personally I was on the fence & was gonna maybe get a Premium, but the lasercut & light up rails were so F'ing cool it pulled me over the fence. Now - Mustang - there's really nothing about the LE that's SO COOL that it would make Mustang fans want one. Now that I've seen the metallic decals on IMve, I love them...but they don't photograph well, so it I think it was hard as an LE sale point. The translite art might be the worst of the bunch, as well.

#5410 4 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Or those wanting to know why if PPS thinks so few will be impacted by lack of coin mechs, why they don't just ship them free to those that want them.
Or those that ask a question he doesn't want to answer.
(Or, in other words, you have nailed the reason I started this thread - poor (or selective) communication).

A) You didn't start this thread

B) I'm honestly considering starting another thread asking "who wants coin mechs in their MMRLE's?". I will personally purchase them at the discounted rate and mail them to those individuals at my own expense.

I was very upset about the coin mech announcement at first (the timing of how it was handled to be precise), but I chose to move on. Now you are just a thorn in my side while I'm trying to experience this first time experience of purchasing a machine NIB.

#5411 4 years ago

Offer someone something for free, and just about everyone is going to want it.

Quoted from jfh:

why they don't just ship them free to those that want them.

#5412 4 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Offer someone something for free, and just about everyone is going to want it.

yeah ... no offense, i think coin mechs are irrelevant, but i will sign up for one if someone's offering em for free.

#5413 4 years ago
Quoted from hardware:

A) You didn't start this thread

I believe he was referring to (or thinking he was in) this thread https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pps-mmr-communication-its-not-about-the-missing-coin-mechs

#5414 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Now that I've seen the metallic decals on IMve, I love them...but they don't photograph well

Yep, those metallic decals on IMVE look like crap in every single picture that I've seen of them. But tons of people say that they look great in person, so I look forward to seeing them myself.

#5415 4 years ago
Quoted from cleland:

Thanks! That's what I figured, I'm guessing 2-3 weeks of new ACDC and MMR first or second week of September.
Then, Walking Dead in October....I hope!

Walking Dead has to be producted by the first week of October so they have a new model for the EXPO party.

#5416 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Yep, those metallic decals on IMVE look like crap in every single picture that I've seen of them. But tons of people say that they look great in person, so I look forward to seeing them myself.

LOL they don't look like crap, they just don't look metallic. In real life they're rad as f*ck and almost look like holograms.

#5417 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

LOL they don't look like crap, they just don't look metallic. In real life they're rad as f*ck and almost look like holograms.

Actually, I will very much stand by my comment that they look like crap in the pictures. There are no blacks, and they look to be completely lacking in any depth as a result. The lack of blacks in the pictures is more than likely a result of the reflective nature of the decals.

McCune told me that they look really cool in person, he loves his, but said that they look very different than the original (which seems obvious).

The video you posted did a pretty good job of showing the reflective type effect of the foil (or whatever you call it).

#5418 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Actually, I will very much stand by my comment that they look like crap in the pictures. There are no blacks, and they look to be completely lacking in any depth as a result. The lack of blacks in the pictures is more than likely a result of the reflective nature of the decals.
McCune told me that they look really cool in person, he loves his, but said that they look very different than the original (which seems obvious).
The video you posted did a pretty good job of showing the reflective type effect of the foil (or whatever you call it).

It's not a TV - talking about "black levels" is moot. In person the "black" area is "black enough" - but it actually has a nice dimensional sheen to it. Almost deep blue-ish in areas. There's a lot of subtle transition of color all over. These decals have depth out the wazoo. They're improved over the original direct printing two-fold. 1.) They're high rez...no pixel-dots style printing. I've got it right next to my Tron LE. The difference is striking. 2.) The metallic shimmer - it just looks so f'ing cool.

If they ever released foil Tron cab decals - I'd put them on my LE.

#5419 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's not a TV - talking about "black levels" is moot. In person the "black" area is "black enough" - but it actually has a nice dimensional sheen to it.

Oh, I definitely disagree with you there.

The fact it isn't a TV has nothing to do with it. Deep blacks will always result in more contrast and give more of an appearance of depth. This is true in photographic printing as well, so it seems obvious that it would apply to printed decals on a pinball machine. Why would it only apply to TV? That doesn't make sense.

Since the new decals are completely different in terms of the effect that they are achieving, the black levels are relative to what they are doing. I am not criticizing the new decals, I am simply indicating why they look like crap in still photos.

#5420 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Oh, I definitely disagree with you there.
The fact it isn't a TV has nothing to do with it. Deep blacks will always result in more contrast and give more of an appearance of depth. This is true in photographic printing as well, so it seems obvious that it would apply to printed decals on a pinball machine. Why would it only apply to TV? That doesn't make sense.
Since the new decals are completely different in terms of the effect that they are achieving, the black levels are relative to what they are doing. I am not criticizing the new decals, I am simply indicating why they look like crap in still photos.

K.

Just look at them in person.

Superior X100.

Stern's old dotty printing has zero depth.

#5421 4 years ago

How boring...

#5422 4 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Offer someone something for free, and just about everyone is going to want it.

Not sure offering something that everybody thought they already paid for anyway would count as offering something for free.

#5423 4 years ago

You are correct - I'm in the wrong thread. Sorry for the (my) confusion.

#5424 4 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Not sure offering something that everybody thought they already paid for anyway would count as offering something for free.

Quoted from jfh:

why they don't just ship them free to those that want them.

#5425 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

K.
Just look at them in person.
Superior X100.
Stern's old dotty printing has zero depth.

Well, I guess you just proved that you completely missed my point.

I was talking about why they look like crap in pictures, remember? I said it was because of the lack of black levels, which is probably a by product of the reflective nature of the new decals.. Then you replied that black levels don't matter because it isn't a TV.

I specifically said I wasn't criticizing the new decals. I was criticizing how they look in still photographs. And why.

But for some reason you take it as a slam against your new pin, which you apparently feel the need to defend even when it isn't being criticized. Kind of like the lack of coin mechs on your pre-ordered MMr.

#5426 4 years ago

Obviously you didn't understand that your second quoted phrase implied "(only applies to confirmed original purchaser)

For someone that is usually smart and level headed, this thread sure seems to have knocked you off balance.

#5427 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

But for some reason you take it has a slam against your new pin, which you apparently feel the need to defend even when it isn't being criticized. Kind of like the lack of coin mechs on your pre-ordered MMr.

Oh for f*cks sake, I really don't wanna get in a MMr/IMr battle with you, Rob....I don't care. Unlike the coin-mechers in that other thread, I actually like you and have respect for you. Can we just end this here?

#5428 4 years ago

image.jpg

#5429 4 years ago

I read your quote as PPS should send coin mechs to people that want one. My only point was that if all purchasers are eligible for free coin mechs if they want them, everyone will want them. They are essentially supplying them to everyone. The whole "everyone should have coin mech" argument is so beat to death, I guess I have no idea what your saying.

Quoted from jfh:

why they don't just ship them free to those that want them.

Quoted from jfh:

Obviously you didn't understand that your second quoted phrase implied "(only applies to confirmed original purchaser)

For someone that is usually smart and level headed, this thread sure seems to have knocked you off balance.

#5430 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Oh for f*cks sake, I really don't wanna get in a MMr/IMr battle with you, Rob....I don't care. Unlike the coin-mechers in that other thread, I actually like you and have respect for you. Can we just end this here?

Once you get him going, just sit back and enjoy the ride (joke)

#5431 4 years ago

image.jpg

#5432 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Oh for f*cks sake, I really don't wanna get in a MMr/IMr battle with you, Rob....I don't care. Unlike the coin-mechers in that other thread, I actually like you and have respect for you. Can we just end this here?

Sure, just admit that you got overly defensive for no reason and completely changed the subject at hand, and we are good to go!

It's hard to understand how *you* can go off on a tangent like you did (you even went on to say "Superior X100. Stern's old dotty printing has zero depth") and yet you reply to *my* post by saying "Oh for f*cks sake"?!

Shouldn't I be the one saying that to you?

#5433 4 years ago

Take it outside boys.

#5434 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Sure, just admit that you got overly defensive for no reason and completely changed the subject at hand, and we are good to go!
It's hard to understand how *you* can go off on a tangent like you did (you even went on to say "Superior X100. Stern's old dotty printing has zero depth") and yet you reply to *my* post by saying "Oh for f*cks sake"?!
Shouldn't I be the one saying that to you?

I wasn't getting defensive - and after that became your perception, it was clear we were seeing the discussion differently. It's over now. Peace & Love, Peace & Love.

#5435 4 years ago

Rick,

If you could please, start a new update thread when your ready to give another. Let this thread just die off. I'm sick of thinking that something is being reported until I open up the tread and it's nothing but bickering and trash talking!!!

#5436 4 years ago
Quoted from TaTa:

If you could please, start a new update thread when your ready to give another. Let this thread just die off. I'm sick of thinking that something is being reported until I open up the tread and it's nothing but bickering and trash talking!!!

Welcome to Pinside.

#5437 4 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

I read your quote as PPS should send coin mechs to people that want one. My only point was that if all purchasers are eligible for free coin mechs if they want them, everyone will want them. They are essentially supplying them to everyone.

Ah, I see. I would normally agree with that. However, if we take Rick at his word, PPS believes that very few care about having the mechs so it follows that not everyone would ask for them. And presumably only those that follow a Pinside would even know about the "free" offer, so you aren't dealing with 100% of owners.

We should move any follow up to the "PPS communication" thread and leave this one for others to speculate when MMR production starts and other game updates.

28
#5438 4 years ago

We will provide an update as early in the week as we can, nothing sinister going on, some minor frustrations (me being an ex-manager of project managers!) just trying to get the best project plan as there are many players (and many vacations of key people coming and going) and syching of things required, but Matt and I recognize that an update is due. Also, for the record (and I don't think there are any people who I have not 'answered or returned phone calls') but nobody has called me about too much MMR (other than to ask for LE's), so I know that was a hot topic. I think that people making up things and having many theories without any basis is interesting reading, but can push us in the same direction as other suppliers which is to stay quiet or operate on our own forum which is not something I want to do as I think pinside is probably the best place to interact (I think ...).

In any event we will have the update this week.

rick@planetarypinball.com

#5439 4 years ago

Hey Rick,
I'm just happy that you recognize that a update is due.
Excited to hear where you are at.

-32
#5440 4 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

I think that people making up things and having many theories without any basis is interesting reading, but can push us in the same direction as other suppliers which is to stay quiet or operate on our own forum which is not something I want to do as I think pinside is probably the best place to interact

I don't think people are making things up (as a general statement). As for theories without basis, that's pretty much a result of your decision to stay quiet when you are (apparently) bothered by a question/topic.

You already "stay quiet" by ignoring reasonable questions/concerns. You can't "interact" if you only do so on the easy stuff.

mof said it perfectly in the thread I started about PPS communications:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pps-mmr-communication-its-not-about-the-missing-coin-mechs/page/14#postbox

"The bottom line is — running a small business is about setting customer expectations and meeting them, and it's about maintaining trust with your customer base. When you fail to meet expectations, how you respond to the situation defines you as a businessman. It's not about being perfect. When expectations aren't met, if communication and action are delayed or missing, trust is appropriately brought into question.

We've observed vendors on Pinside (including PPS) deal with bumps in the road and overcome them with prompt communication and action. From what I've observed, many people were hoping for a high level of communication and responsibility regarding this issue to match the faith they demonstrated to PPS in a 3-hour sellout of the product offered. The customer base demonstrated a truly remarkable level of faith and trust up front in being delivered an excellent product. I presume PPS earned that trust with their previous track record with the customer base. I imagine that anything less than an excellent performance on the delivery side will meet quick scrutiny."

(And, AFAIK, no one, myself included, got an answer to why, if not shipping mechs with MMR is only an issue for a small fraction of orders, why not just ship them to those it is an issue for?).

#5441 4 years ago

Jim ... with that I will close this thread. Not going away from pinside at all but this thread has reached it's limit.

Moderator, please close this thread. I will have updates on www.pinball.com and you can all email me or otherwise call me on my telephone and talk to me!

Also, I hope and have asked for the update thread to continue and will be more than happy to have discussion as I have time for it!

Thanks,
rick@planetarypinball.com

#5442 4 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

Jim ... with that I will close this thread. Not going away from pinside at all but this thread has reached it's limit.
Moderator, please close this thread. I will have updates on http://www.pinball.com and you can all email me or otherwise call me on my telephone and talk to me!
Thanks,
rick

image-77.jpg

#5443 4 years ago

408-891-7878 is my cell ... only request is that you identify who you are ...

#5444 4 years ago

what a shame that it comes to having to close the thread. Didn't the moderators ask the discussion about the mech be taken to its own thread...

shaking my head.

#5445 4 years ago

JFH, you were complaining about communication?.....well, you just ruined the best communication tool we had with the only manufacturer that was giving us updates via Pinside....

Quoted from jfh:

I don't think people are making things up (as a general statement). As for theories without basis, that's pretty much a result of your decision to stay quiet when you are (apparently) bothered by a question/topic.
You already "stay quiet" by ignoring reasonable questions/concerns. You can't "interact" if you only do so on the easy stuff.
mof said it perfectly in the thread I started about PPS communications:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pps-mmr-communication-its-not-about-the-missing-coin-mechs/page/14#postbox
"The bottom line is — running a small business is about setting customer expectations and meeting them, and it's about maintaining trust with your customer base. When you fail to meet expectations, how you respond to the situation defines you as a businessman. It's not about being perfect. When expectations aren't met, if communication and action are delayed or missing, trust is appropriately brought into question.
We've observed vendors on Pinside (including PPS) deal with bumps in the road and overcome them with prompt communication and action. From what I've observed, many people were hoping for a high level of communication and responsibility regarding this issue to match the faith they demonstrated to PPS in a 3-hour sellout of the product offered. The customer base demonstrated a truly remarkable level of faith and trust up front in being delivered an excellent product. I presume PPS earned that trust with their previous track record with the customer base. I imagine that anything less than an excellent performance on the delivery side will meet quick scrutiny."
(And, AFAIK, no one, myself included, got an answer to why, if not shipping mechs with MMR is only an issue for a small fraction of orders, why not just ship them to those it is an issue for?).

20
#5446 4 years ago

Unless and until there can be a constructive, concise, and on-topic way to do these, it's gonna be hard ... this is such a waste of time for everyone and it's a bit embarrassing for everyone involved. I can only hope we do better on a next thread.

And yes, you can all call me and ask me whatever you want to ask me, but I don't need to be schooled on how to run a business and how to do what needs to be done and certainly not by people who can't even take 5 mins to talk to me on the phone ... I think we can compare notes on backgrounds and you will see that there are reasons for most everything that is done - the real world is not a simple some would like to believe (trust me, I make pinball parts!) ... sometimes mistakes are made and then we fix them, and so be it.

rick

.... closing soon moderators?

-22
#5447 4 years ago

Now maybe people will understand why I opened the other thread (which I asked to be closed because I thought it had run its' course (and I was pretty sure you were not going to try and have a reasonable discussion about the issues).

My mother taught me never to take my marbles and go home when I was upset. Sorry you thought doing so was the best way to handle constructive critism.

(And NO ONE, especially me, said or believes this was easy. We all know there are reasons for the way things are, but it's hard for those on the outside to understand them when you don't answer questions about them).

Looking forward to a successful MMR rollout. Sorry to see this thread end on such a disappointing note.

12
#5448 4 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Now maybe people will understand why I opened the other thread (which I asked to be closed because I thought it had run its' course (and I was pretty sure you were not going to try and have a reasonable discussion about the issues).

My mother taught me never to take my marbles and go home when I was upset. Sorry you thought doing do was the best way to handle constructive critism.

(And NO ONE, especially me, said or believes this was easy. We all know there are reasons for the way things are, but it's hard for those on the outside to understand them when you don't answer questions about them).

Looking forward to a successful MMR rollout. Sorry to see this thread end on such a disappointing note.

just stop

-12
#5449 4 years ago
Quoted from chuck1972:

JFH, you were complaining about communication?.....well, you just ruined the best communication tool we had with the only manufacturer that was giving us updates via Pinside....

Effective communication is a two-way street.

I didn't "ruin" anything. Rick just showed everyone he has no interest in having two-way dialogs with his most energized customer base. To me, that is mind boggling, but that's his right. It's also a very convenient way from taking responsibility or answering questions without being dismissive.

#5450 4 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

Unless and until there can be a constructive, concise, and on-topic way to do these, it's gonna be hard ... this is such a waste of time for everyone and it's a bit embarrassing for everyone involved. I can only hope we do better on a next thread.
And yes, you can all call me and ask me whatever you want to ask me, but I don't need to be schooled on how to run a business and how to do what needs to be done and certainly not by people who can't even take 5 mins to talk to me on the phone ... I think we can compare notes on backgrounds and you will see that there are reasons for most everything that is done - the real world is not a simple some would like to believe (trust me, I make pinbalparts!) ... sometimes mistakes are made and then we fix them, and so be it.
rick
.... closing soon moderators?

Rick.. You have been more then patient with the constant "call-outs" and outright slander by some of the people on here.
Perhaps a controlled google owners group by invite only ( like JJP) would be an option?
Thanks again for keeping WMS/Bally Pinball alive and moving forward to allow the next generation to own and appreciate these works of labor and art.

Running

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