(Topic ID: 67443)

MMR PPS and Overall Update - Official PPS (Oct 21, 2013)


By PPS

6 years ago



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#5251 5 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

I am curious, how many of you plan to route your MMRLE?

I do. Why not? That is the very definition of what to do with a coin operated machine, isn't it? MM does well on route ... both of the ones I have had out previously have done great for me. Isn't there one still in Portland I think that has brought in over 100k? That's a pretty good return.

#5252 5 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Wow, this thread has gotten ridiculous.
I am curious, how many of you plan to route your MMRLE?

I know of at least one that's going on route.*

It's gonna need token mechs, so the quarter mechs would just get tossed aside anyhow.

*EDIT: And it's not Smokedog's.
* DOUBLE EDIT! Or LTG's

#5253 5 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

Will there be a hyper-link provided so I can download and print out the PDF of the manual and schematics so I can have them on hand when trying to trouble shoot something on location?

There was only one copy of the manual, and everyone was going to be allowed to take a charcoal etching of it if they needed their own copy. But Rick is so upset he just destroyed it. Way to go people!!!

Rick.jpg

#5254 5 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

I am curious, how many of you plan to route your MMRLE?

Me. I'll have it and an original one here.

LTG : )

#5255 5 years ago
Quoted from Crash:Deleted post

The honest resolution was already done. It's resolved there will be no mechs included. If you want one find it yourself, or get a discounted one from Rick, or anywhere of your choosing.

#5257 5 years ago

Nope my cars did not have spare tires. Runflats.

#5258 5 years ago

Everyone, a friendly reminder to please follow the staffs instructions.

I think we are pretty fair in the moderation here on Pinside, but when the moderation team makes a decision and states it here repeatedly then I would expect people to follow those instructions.

The coin mech situation obviously deserves a thread (because it seems there are quite a few people who want to express their thoughts on this) but please take that new discussion to another thread, like the new one that was started here.

#5259 5 years ago

Rick please get on and shut these people up!Also give an update of production timeline.

-3
#5260 5 years ago
Quoted from Bigboythursday:

Rick please get on and shut these people up!Also give an update of production timeline.

Hey Rick here's a way to silence these negative trolls announce in a seperate thread that you will include the coin mechs after all!

#5261 5 years ago
Quoted from Bigboythursday:

Hey Rick here's a way to silence these negative trolls announce in a seperate thread that you will include the coin mechs after all!

ummmm....I.... think...you...are ....supposed...to ...take that to the other new thread per Robin 3 posts above.

-5
#5262 5 years ago

first, if this matters, yes, I have one on order. there, I said it.

now,

What has changed since October 2013...

a. Limited, well, they relly are not going to be limited to 1,000 units. You angry?

b. Deposit freeze - will happen with Williams approval. Nope, we're letting that slide. We'll get back to you on this.

c. Gold , oh, you thought it was the bly/wms Addams family brass-colored trim. Nah, it's mustard gold, dust covered.

d. These will be assembled by the fine team of Chicago Coin, you know them? the ones that make cabinets and playfields? whoops, were back to stern. Don't mind the dust sprinkles.

e. Shipping second quarter - nope. Not this second quarter.

f. Surprise! world has got out that JJP froze the deposits? What, you missed the announcement? I missed it to.
I read about the JJP freeze in a thread that a guy had to sell his order at a $300 loss.

g. Coin mechs not included. Wait, I'm not suppose to bitch about $20 bucks. Is this the last straw? Any more changes to come?

#5263 5 years ago

Now I can "Drain" the whining thread and watch this one for more info from Rick. Three cheers for the drain feature!

#5264 5 years ago

Well now what? What's worse, nothing or mech talk? Kidding . . . . . . . I think?

#5265 5 years ago

Anything is better than mech talk. Ideally a production update is coming soon now that the last estimated date has passed.

Quoted from Fuse:

Well now what? What's worse, nothing or mech talk? Kidding . . . . . . . I think?

#5266 5 years ago

Anything and nothing is better than mech talk.

#5268 5 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

first, if this matters, yes, I have one on order. there, I said it.
now,
What has changed since October 2013...
a. Limited, well, they relly are not going to be limited to 1,000 units. You angry?

The limited ones - AKA - Plaque, shaker included, colored trim, thicker cabinet bottom - are still limited. Standards were announced like the day after the Expo announcement.

Quoted from scott_freeman:

b. Deposit freeze - will happen with Williams approval. Nope, we're letting that slide. We'll get back to you on this.

Shit happens.

Quoted from scott_freeman:

c. Gold , oh, you thought it was the bly/wms Addams Family brass-colored trim. Nah, it's mustard gold, dust covered.

...and if you don't like it you can get black or stainless. A recent Pinside poll showed that there are still tons of people getting gold. Sometimes the angry minority is the loudest....clearly, plenty of people like the gold color and don't consider it to be dusty mustard.

Quoted from scott_freeman:

d. These will be assembled by the fine team of Chicago Coin, you know them? the ones that make cabinets and playfields? whoops, were back to stern. Don't mind the dust sprinkles.

Yeah, that's horrible because...why? Stern is set up to make pinball machines and Chicago Coin isn't.

Quoted from scott_freeman:

e. Shipping second quarter - nope. Not this second quarter.

Shit happens.

Quoted from scott_freeman:

f. Surprise! world has got out that JJP froze the deposits? What, you missed the announcement? I missed it to.
I read about the JJP freeze in a thread that a guy had to sell his order at a $300 loss.

That's between Jack and his customers...not really PPS's fault.

Quoted from scott_freeman:

g. Coin mechs not included. Wait, I'm not suppose to bitch about $20 bucks. Is this the last straw? Any more changes to come?

Wah, coin mechs, wah.

#5270 5 years ago
Quoted from mrclean:

Firstly Rick thanks for remaking the game !! Forgetting about all of this coin mech garbage talk... I'm focused on the bigger picture. What's the actual projected date as to when it's going on Sterns Line ?! You initially said June/July.. then end of July,... July is officially over. It's now August. I understand you said that some things can slow down production, how did the UL testing go ? If you can please give us all more info as to a more accurate projected date as to when this is going to happen ? I'm not in any rush but Ideally I'd like to have an idea as to when.
Side note Monster Bash, Attack from Mars, Cactus Canyon, Big Bang Bar, Theatre of Magic, King Pin .... What's the next REMAKE title from PPS ? You also said buyers of MMRLE would have some type of special once you make your next announcement any chance of shedding more light on that ? Do you plan on keeping the price point at 8k for the next game ?!

This post is amazing. You're focused on quite a few pictures it seems. Lol

38
#5271 5 years ago

So ... I'm just going to address some really weird mis-statements and mis-conceptions, and pretty disappointed that my previous posts about the coin mech topic seem to get lost. I would encourage people to look at the MMR summary thread which has most of the relevent updates.

a) Has absolutely nothing to do with commercial or not, have no idea who came up with that theory ... if that were the case (which it's not), then likely it would have a 0-slot coin door ... who comes up with this stuff?

b) I've already stated why the decision to not have coin mechs was made 1) they complicate the mfg process as they become another option between US and export. And then there are more secondary reasons 2) a super small % of the games will be operated and use quarters, 3) many operators prefer their own mechs (and have mechs).

c) As I also said we have coin mechs (they are real as a few people had gotten them at CAX open house) for cheap and they are good mechs.

d) I communicated this as soon as I knew about it, from a call we had between Stern, CGC, and myself. I figured when I heard about it was a good time to communicate it - it was not a 'bait and switch' (good lord), it was just that there are so many things going on that the discussion about the coin mechs is not a top one on the list.

e) CGC is the overall project 'owner' of the game - we are the licensee, and as such CGC has leeway to make decisions and we have a large degree of influence, there is nothing new to this. PPS is the 'face' for the pinball community because frankly while CGC is well known in gaming they are not 'in' the community and thus PPS (myself) provides the conduit for communication with the community. CGC is not a contractor, Stern in this case is a contractor (and important one). CGC is a partner and driving the bulk of the game development with our guidance.

f) As for questions about things - I am always ok to run them down (about manuals and such - which I'm pretty sure we are including a manual with an appexdix for MMR stuff). Alot of this requires me getting answers from CGC which sometimes especially now is a challenge as they are heavily working on what they need to do and often I have a hard time finding them.

For those that are very upset, we are sorry, but we have done things like extend the warranty, put double hard coat, finished the backbox trim, put a shaker in it, etc which did we felt were ways to differentiate the game. We did feel that the omission of coin mechs which can contribute to complicating the mfg (between two parties, not one, and then shipped to many resellers) was better than the crazy feedback if more production/coordination mistakes happened because of this additional element, which the goal is to try to reduce as much complexity as possible.

rick

#5272 5 years ago

Fair enough Rick. Thanks for keeping your head up.

#5273 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

Alot of this requires me getting answers from CGC which sometimes especially now is a challenge as they are heavily working on what they need to do and often I have a hard time finding them

I could care less about the coin mechs, but this is the only thing that worries me at this point....having a hard time finding them is not good IMO... I know PPS/Rick is the public channel, but CGC is ultimately responsible for the final game.

#5274 5 years ago

I can imagine almost anything said someone can read into it something ... Which could move people to communicate less here ... I'm not there yet and would prefer not to follow in some of the footsteps of others ...

#5275 5 years ago

How is the backbox trim being "finished?"

#5276 5 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

f. Surprise! world has got out that JJP froze the deposits? What, you missed the announcement? I missed it to.
I read about the JJP freeze in a thread that a guy had to sell his order at a $300 loss.

This is Jacks issue: but long term it will push customers to PPS to buy direct. Future remakes will likely have customers line up to PPS first then others as a fall back.

#5277 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

e) CGC is the overall project 'owner' of the game - we are the licensee, and as such CGC has leeway to make decisions and we have a large degree of influence, there is nothing new to this. PPS is the 'face' for the pinball community because frankly while CGC is well known in gaming they are not 'in' the community and thus PPS (myself) provides the conduit for communication with the community. CGC is not a contractor, Stern in this case is a contractor (and important one). CGC is a partner and driving the bulk of the game development with our guidance.
f) As for questions about things - I am always ok to run them down (about manuals and such - which I'm pretty sure we are including a manual with an appexdix for MMR stuff). Alot of this requires me getting answers from CGC which sometimes especially now is a challenge as they are heavily working on what they need to do and often I have a hard time finding them.
For those that are very upset, we are sorry, but we have done things like extend the warranty, put double hard coat, finished the backbox trim, put a shaker in it, etc which did we felt were ways to differentiate the game. We did feel that the omission of coin mechs which can contribute to complicating the mfg (between two parties, not one, and then shipped to many resellers) was better than the crazy feedback if more production/coordination mistakes happened because of this additional element, which the goal is to try to reduce as much complexity as possible

Rick - thank you for your post, especially the portion quoted here. I know that I for one wouldn't have been upset (or as upset) if you had provided this level of detail earlier and if you are able/willing to do so in the future, I suspect a lot of the craziness disappears.

#5278 5 years ago
Quoted from bmunn1:

This is Jacks issue: but long term it will push customers to PPS to buy direct. Future remakes will likely have customers line up to PPS first then others as a fall back.

I didnt have an issue with this from jack. I ordered my game from him put my deposit down knowing i would have to pay the othere payment at some point. Well that some point came and i sent him a check. I don't get the big deal about having to pay for the rest of your game. But thats just how i feel about the situation.

#5279 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

So, call Rick.

Or just freaking buy one of the routed games that are currently at a reduced price in the marketplace. Problem solved!

#5280 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

) CGC is the overall project 'owner' of the game - we are the licensee, and as such CGC has leeway to make decisions and we have a large degree of influence

Interesting. I didn't realize this. So CGC has final say. PPS has a large degree of influence.

#5281 5 years ago

D'ont care about 20 $ Coin Mech I am buying cause MM is the Best game ever not for 20 $ Coin Mech
But for the Best Voices in a game The Best Toys The best Software The Best Looking !

"We eat you for lunch !" "Rescue the princess, I think she wants you"

Thanks to Rick and PPS !

#5282 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Interesting. I didn't realize this. So CGC has final say. PPS has a large degree of influence.

I (obviously) didn't realize this either and it puts a number of things in new light.

Perhaps someone from CGC can be encouraged to participate here to offload some of the load from Rick. Surely a project of this size can afford someone to interface with a good portion of the primary customer base on a regular basis.

#5283 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I (obviously) didn't realize this either and it puts a number of things in new light.

Perhaps someone from CGC can be encouraged to participate here to offload some of the load from Rick. Surely a project of this size can afford someone to interface with a good portion of the primary customer base on a regular basis.

Willing to bet they have zero interest in our feedback.

#5284 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Willing to bet they have zero interest in our feedback.

Maybe. But that would be short sighted.

When you are in the luxury market category (which is where I put $8k toys), it's a very smart thing to do. I've made suggestions to Lexus and Celebrity Cruises that I expected to end up in the bit bucket only to find out that they led to service changes. Those two brands pretty much have me as customers for good now.

This isn't exactly a business where it's easy to find new customers or replace lost ones.

#5285 5 years ago

Pretty sure all reasoning has been covered, just because you don't like the answer does not mean you deserve it to change. It's about time to drop the subject

#5286 5 years ago

I've said this before-- Rick you're a saint. I know this is a business....but one that's being directed to a small very incredibly vocal group that's not always reasonable to deal with (MOB MENTALITY FOLKS).....

Phew. If I happen to have the pleasure to meet you in person, I really hope I have the chance to buy you a beer.

I'm sure you're not getting rich off of this project. As best hopefully you can make a nice living off of this....

Now....GET BACK ONTO THE ASSEMBLY LINE AND GET ME SOME PHOTOS....

(seriously- I've said this before too- you're a good sport).

#5287 5 years ago

uhhh when's this going on (the new new date) the line ? Did I miss that post ??

#5288 5 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

How is the backbox trim being "finished?"

You wont have a raw painted plywood edge facing you when you play.

#5289 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

I can imagine almost anything said someone can read into it something ... Which could move people to communicate less here ... I'm not there yet and would prefer not to follow in some of the footsteps of others ...

Sometimes the harder decisions are the better long term ones Rick. Good call not following Jack into the 'ignore Pinside' camp.

Another respect notch to ya.

#5290 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

So ... I'm just going to address some really weird mis-statements and mis-conceptions, and pretty disappointed that my previous posts about the coin mech topic seem to get lost. I would encourage people to look at the MMR summary thread which has most of the relevent updates.
a) Has absolutely nothing to do with commercial or not, have no idea who came up with that theory ... if that were the case (which it's not), then likely it would have a 0-slot coin door ... who comes up with this stuff?
b) I've already stated why the decision to not have coin mechs was made 1) they complicate the mfg process as they become another option between US and export. And then there are more secondary reasons 2) a super small % of the games will be operated and use quarters, 3) many operators prefer their own mechs (and have mechs).
c) As I also said we have coin mechs (they are real as a few people had gotten them at CAX open house) for cheap and they are good mechs.
d) I communicated this as soon as I knew about it, from a call we had between Stern, CGC, and myself. I figured when I heard about it was a good time to communicate it - it was not a 'bait and switch' (good lord), it was just that there are so many things going on that the discussion about the coin mechs is not a top one on the list.
e) CGC is the overall project 'owner' of the game - we are the licensee, and as such CGC has leeway to make decisions and we have a large degree of influence, there is nothing new to this. PPS is the 'face' for the pinball community because frankly while CGC is well known in gaming they are not 'in' the community and thus PPS (myself) provides the conduit for communication with the community. CGC is not a contractor, Stern in this case is a contractor (and important one). CGC is a partner and driving the bulk of the game development with our guidance.
f) As for questions about things - I am always ok to run them down (about manuals and such - which I'm pretty sure we are including a manual with an appexdix for MMR stuff). Alot of this requires me getting answers from CGC which sometimes especially now is a challenge as they are heavily working on what they need to do and often I have a hard time finding them.
For those that are very upset, we are sorry, but we have done things like extend the warranty, put double hard coat, finished the backbox trim, put a shaker in it, etc which did we felt were ways to differentiate the game. We did feel that the omission of coin mechs which can contribute to complicating the mfg (between two parties, not one, and then shipped to many resellers) was better than the crazy feedback if more production/coordination mistakes happened because of this additional element, which the goal is to try to reduce as much complexity as possible.
rick

Thanks, Rick
MMR will be great. I hope additional machines will be made in the future, too.

#5291 5 years ago

I wonder how many people bought the MMR with little knowledge of it like I did.

1. I have never seen the pin in person.

2. Never played one, not even the Virtual Pin version.

3. I have watched one video of someone playing it on Youtube.

I wanted it because:

1. It has been #1 on Pinside for a long time, so it MUST be good!

2. I have heard SO many other people exclaim what a great pin it is.

3. It is supposed to be unique and addictive to play.

4. Pictures I have seen show it to be a beautiful pin.

5. The idea that it is brand new and not a used pin.

6. The idea it is a Limited Edition.

That's about it! This is like buying a car without ever seeing one or driving one, but only seeing pictures and hearing feedback from others.

Anyone else take such a leap? I figure most of you have had a lot of exposure to this pin, either own one, or have played it a lot. I am convinced I made the right decision.

Mike

#5292 5 years ago

Well, I have played the original in real life (as well as on my iPad, which is certainly passably similar but not the same). I don't know if I'd rate it the greatest pinball ever made ... I've personally got too much sentimentality invested in Black Hole and STTNG to make that kind of proclamation. But I like it well enough that I was in on day one and haven't had a second thought since. that is no small praise!

You are right that we're buying this thing mostly sight-unseen, and from a brand new company to boot (edit: brand new to making pins, anyway, Vacation America notwithstanding). We're spending 8 large on a game. I am not sure there's any rational defense of what we've done, Mike, but if a man's gonna take a risk ... I dunno, I feel like we could have done worse. I think this thing is gonna be great. Call me an optimist.

#5293 5 years ago

It's amazing to me that there is anybody left to even make pinball machines given the way some people act.

I don't know why/how Rick, Jack and others can even put up with some of this BS. I know how Stern does it, he doesn't read comments on the internet.

#5294 5 years ago

Basing one's decisions on grumbling men in a pinball forum is probably not considered best business practice.

#5295 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

I am not sure there's any rational defense of what we've done

This is especially true since I have not told my wife I have bought one! She thinks pinball is a waste of time and money, and I am going to get a good tongue-lashing when it arrives. I'm nervous on two counts: Can't wait to see this pin, and the fear of when my wife sees it. I've got a few weeks to think of how to tell her how I came up with the money. Talk about 'Scared Stiff'!!! Ha

She will know I didn't win the Lottery. I'm thinking of telling her I hit it big on some stocks and I sold some of them for this 'investment'. She knows I've sold several pins in the past and made some profit. I hope this works. If it doesn't, I will be like Richard Nixon, and you guys won't have me to kick around anymore . . .

#5296 5 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Basing one's decisions on grumbling men in a pinball forum is probably not considered best business practice.

I'd say "grumbling crybaby children"……….

#5297 5 years ago
Quoted from Pintucky:

This is especially true since I have not told my wife I have bought one! She thinks pinball is a waste of time and money, and I am going to get a good tongue-lashing when it arrives. I'm nervous on two counts: Can't wait to see this pin, and the fear of when my wife sees it. I've got a few weeks to think of how to tell her how I came up with the money. Talk about 'Scared Stiff'!!! Ha
She will know I didn't win the Lottery. I'm thinking of telling her I hit it big on some stocks and I sold some of them for this 'investment'. She knows I've sold several pins in the past and made some profit. I hope this works. If it doesn't, I will be like Richard Nixon, and you guys won't have me to kick around anymore . . .

Hahaha. I know EXACTLY how you feel. I told my wife about 2 weeks ago. This thread was the result -- https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-in-virginia-pristine-funhouse-5900-navl-available#post-1788972

#5298 5 years ago

Thank for the update Rick!

Our MMR is going on location and I can report that, as you suggested, we would have been replacing standard mechs with custom ones anyway.

I'm glad to see effort was focused on things that will actually matter to me in the long run such as the powder finish, shaker, cabinet, etc.

-Jay

-1
#5299 5 years ago
Quoted from Pintucky:

I wonder how many people bought the MMR with little knowledge of it like I did.
1. I have never seen the pin in person.
2. Never played one, not even the Virtual Pin version.
3. I have watched one video of someone playing it on Youtube.
I wanted it because:
1. It has been #1 on Pinside for a long time, so it MUST be good!
2. I have heard SO many other people exclaim what a great pin it is.
3. It is supposed to be unique and addictive to play.
4. Pictures I have seen show it to be a beautiful pin.
5. The idea that it is brand new and not a used pin.
6. The idea it is a Limited Edition.
That's about it! This is like buying a car without ever seeing one or driving one, but only seeing pictures and hearing feedback from others.
Anyone else take such a leap? I figure most of you have had a lot of exposure to this pin, either own one, or have played it a lot. I am convinced I made the right decision.
Mike

IMO, you should have played it first...they are out there to play. I think a lot of people will be disappointed as it isn't that deep compared to most recent releases. It's deep enough for me and I love the game, but not everyone will feel that way. PS Just tell the wife already...why prolong it?

#5300 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

I know EXACTLY how you feel. I told my wife about 2 weeks ago. This thread was the result

OMG! That FH is just gorgeous! You might have wasted some time posting that but as some of the others said on there, we enjoyed looking at the pictures. I usually don't get that impressed, but those pictures took my breath away.
And I noticed it was going to be sold: "Includes coin mechs"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I bought my WOZ I put in a sauna for her the DAY BEFORE the pin arrived as a surprise. That really softened the blow. However, this 'double money' thing is getting expensive! You may have seen my post a few weeks back about where I was thinking of selling my WOZ. I told her about it thinking that might relieve some pressure. Thank goodness, I've been low-balled on it and it looks like I'll be keeping it.

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