(Topic ID: 144970)

MMR Owners - need some help


By Ramjet

3 years ago



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  • 240 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by o-din
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There are 240 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
#151 3 years ago
Quoted from Drewblood419:

I'd be fine with all of that as long as they also included the cost of somebody to disassemble the entire playfield and apply said new decals or re-darken the inserts and then clearcoat over it all as many times as it takes to get it as smooth as glass again.

Good luck with that.

#152 3 years ago

Some forgot to check the printer

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#153 3 years ago

i dont understand how earlier runs can have clearly readable inserts,originals had readable inserts and this is supposed to b like an original

#154 3 years ago

Someone somewhere made the decision to build up those playfields, and it probably wasn't the right decision.

What they should have done is post a pic of the problem, say "Sorry for the delay but we got a bad batch of playfields; we assume you don't want these so we're waiting on a correct batch before we can build more games." Your delay is now explained, and customers are happy they're getting quality. And you can sell the bad playfields at a discount to recoup manufacturing costs.

I don't like the decision-making process at CGC and that will have a direct influence on my decision to buy any NIB games from them

#155 3 years ago

So who's getting excited about the big reveal of game two at TPF come March?

#156 3 years ago

I've submitted my ticket. Will be interesting to see how they handle it. Replacement playfield would be acceptable for me. Decals or sharpie not so much.

#157 3 years ago

They are not going to do anything. They never addressed the slingshot damage other than sending out $3 parts. They will just ignore this like the damage to the playfields from slingshot issue.

A lot less playfields were damaged by slingshots and no one got a new playfield what makes you think they will be sending out playfields?

#158 3 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Is your ticket in regards to the playfield issue or something else?

Taylor my ticket is about the PF, cabinet damage and a few other issues the game has. I would have thought CGC would at least reply and say 'we are working on it for you' etc.

#159 3 years ago

True. They may just ignore it. And if they do, I know me and quite a few other customers will ignore future remakes at 8k. It's not like these things were inexpensive machines. I love my MMR but for 8 large, I expect a non-defective playfield and to be addressed when I have a problem. I have to imagine others feel the same way. Replacement playfield may be asking a lot but a concession on color s/w or a discount on a replacement playfield would satisfy me as well. But straight up ignoring me is a deal breaker. When I spend 8k with a company, I expect my business to be valued.

#160 3 years ago
Quoted from peaceboy666:

i dont understand how earlier runs can have clearly readable inserts,originals had readable inserts and this is supposed to b like an original

QC.

#161 3 years ago
Quoted from marspinball:

They are not going to do anything. They never addressed the slingshot damage other than sending out $3 parts. They will just ignore this like the damage to the playfields from slingshot issue.
A lot less playfields were damaged by slingshots and no one got a new playfield what makes you think they will be sending out playfields?

There are about three dozen inserts to ignore. Legally they can't ignore it - read the first three lines of the warranty.

#162 3 years ago
Quoted from peaceboy666:

i dont understand how earlier runs can have clearly readable inserts,originals had readable inserts and this is supposed to b like an original

They can't recognize the money you sent them from an accounting perspective until they ship your game out so they are doing that as fast as possible. They may or may not have noticed the inserts before they built the games, who knows, that will come out in Rick's book about all this in ten years. The real problem here as it has been all along is anyone asking QA related questions which could have benefited the project were shouted out of the room by the folks that are now enjoying their early run games with nice inserts.

How this will work is Rick will not say anything until you all settle down. Then he will issue the "we are looking into it" stall to settle everyone down even more. The fanboys will proudly announce this means they are going to do something. They won't. Because they never had to for any of their other issues.

-3
#163 3 years ago

I don't see how they can make any sort of grandiose gesture on this issue. How does one prove if they have faded inserts or not? What does it even mean to have faded inserts? How do you measure it?

Because it's an ill-defined problem, whatever course of action they choose, they have to be prepared to do it 1000 times. I seriously doubt they're willing to send out 1000 playfields.

#164 3 years ago
Quoted from boustrophedonic:

I don't see how they can make any sort of grandiose gesture on this issue. How does one prove if they have faded inserts or not? What does it even mean to have faded inserts? How do you measure it?
Because it's an ill-defined problem, whatever course of action they choose, they have to be prepared to do it 1000 times. I seriously doubt they're willing to send out 1000 playfields.

It is not all 1000 games. It is a batch of the 1000 that have the defect.

#165 3 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

It is not all 1000 games. It is a batch of the 1000 that have the defect.

What defect? How do you measure it? Here's are 2 pictures of my machine in single lamp test mode. The insert with the light on looks faded when the flash is off. Turn the flash on, it looks ok. Do I have an issue? Or not?

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#166 3 years ago

In the next PPS game they just need to switch all clear inserts to frosted inserts and that should solve this issue, as for what to do for the people who have this problem that's a tough one! It would be extremely expensive for CGC to send everyone a new playfield (no way in hell they are gunna do this) if we go by what they did on the last fix every owner will get 6 frosted inserts sent to them at no charge

#167 3 years ago
Quoted from boustrophedonic:

What defect? How do you measure it? Here's are 2 pictures of my machine in single lamp test mode. The insert with the light on looks faded when the flash is off. Turn the flash on, it looks ok. Do I have an issue? Or not?

It's very obvious when you compare earlier batches to the ones affected. Go back a couple of pages and see.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

In the next PPS game they just need to switch all clear inserts to frosted clear inserts and that should solve this issue, as for what to do for the people who have this problem that's a tough one! It would be extremely expensive for CGC to send everyone a new playfield (no way in hell they are gunna do this) if we go by what they did on the last fix every owner will get 6 frosted inserts sent to them at no charge

I know - not easy for them, but it would be the right thing to do. $8K and 2 years later...I can't read my inserts. Hopefully they've noticed the faded inserts, fixed the problem, and are cranking out corrected ones.

#168 3 years ago

It's not just the 6 castle inserts. Almost all of the inserts except the blue ones that lead up to the castle are a faded black. I personally wouldn't return my game for the issue because it is just not that huge. But It is an issue, especially when I see that earlier MMR customers have clearly legible black lettering and I do not. If the game was 5k, or less, I'm biting my toungue. But when I pay a ferrari type price for a ferrari type toy, I want farrari type attention to detail and service when I have an issue.

#169 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

In the next PPS game they just need to switch all clear inserts to frosted inserts and that should solve this issue, as for what to do for the people who have this problem that's a tough one! It would be extremely expensive for CGC to send everyone a new playfield (no way in hell they are gunna do this) if we go by what they did on the last fix every owner will get 6 frosted inserts sent to them at no charge

From what I understand they make the playfields in house so it shouldn't be that expensive for them even if they had to make 1000 playfields which they don't especially when you take into consideration that they raked in $8 million roughly just On LE sales alone i'd assume it probably only costs them about $100-$200 per playfield to make

#170 3 years ago

My point is that I can make it look faded or not based on how I take the picture. So I don't see how you can prove your machine has an issue with a photo. Measuring the translucency of an ink is not something that a consumer can easily do. Particularly through a very refractory insert.

I'm not saying some people don't have a legitimate gripe. I'm just saying that it's much harder to pin down than if it were something more obvious like a missing layer of art. And IMO it's unrealistic to demand they send you a playfield that you both know will never get installed in the machine, since faded inserts is not something worth investing the time into doing a swap for.

I certainly hope they address your concerns in some way, but a guy who wouldn't give out free coin mechs isn't likely to send out 1000 playfields over a few hard-to-prove complaints.

#171 3 years ago

CGC fix will be to dim the insert leds with the new software update

#172 3 years ago

Removed by request of PPS

#173 3 years ago
Quoted from boustrophedonic:

My point is that I can make it look faded or not based on how I take the picture. So I don't see how you can prove your machine has an issue with a photo. Measuring the translucency of an ink is not something that a consumer can easily do. Particularly through a very refractory insert.
I'm not saying some people don't have a legitimate gripe. I'm just saying that it's much harder to pin down than if it were something more obvious like a missing layer of art. And IMO it's unrealistic to demand they send you a playfield that you both know will never get installed in the machine, since faded inserts is not something worth investing the time into doing a swap for.
I certainly hope they address your concerns in some way, but a guy who wouldn't give out free coin mechs isn't likely to send out 1000 playfields over a few hard-to-prove complaints.

I disagree. It looks like these issues started in a batch and were probably contained to a batch. It wasn't like one was fine and the next three were faded...it seems that they changed something or started producing them incorrectly - that can be investigated and nailed down. Hopefully they already have.

It's not unrealistic either. Yeah, it sucks that they even have to think about doing it - but damn if I didn't pay $8,000 for a machine and I want to be able to read my inserts when the game is on. They are noticeably transparent and that's not what we were sold. It's pretty simple.

Everything else about the game freaking rocks - I hate that this is even an issue, but how CGC responds (like I've said x100) is everything to me.

#174 3 years ago

Does anyone know if this issue has been corrected on the games that are currently shipping? I'm still waiting on mine as I know hundreds of others are. It would be really disappointing if they are continuing to ship these faded playfields now that the issue is known.

#175 3 years ago
Quoted from boustrophedonic:

What defect? How do you measure it? Here's are 2 pictures of my machine in single lamp test mode. The insert with the light on looks faded when the flash is off. Turn the flash on, it looks ok. Do I have an issue? Or not?

20160130_111347_resized_(resized).jpg20160130_111307_resized_1_(resized).jpg

Yes yours looks to be a defect. You should be able to read the letters clearly regardless of whether any GI , flashers or house lights are lighting it or not.

#176 3 years ago
Quoted from boustrophedonic:

My point is that I can make it look faded or not based on how I take the picture. So I don't see how you can prove your machine has an issue with a photo.

I think you can safely say this machine has an issue...

duke_(resized).jpg

#177 3 years ago

Curious, and related to the inserts..

Why were 'grid' inserts used instead of the original start-burst inserts?

#178 3 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Curious, and related to the inserts..
Why were 'grid' inserts used instead of the original start-burst inserts?

On the original the grid is used on the 5 knights. Starburst is only on the King of Payne.

#179 3 years ago

Response from Rick on PPS forums:

"They are looking into it, I can tell you that many of the pictures are in completely different light, angle, ambient light, mm vs mmr, etc and so it's really hard to compare one vs the other to get a clear picture of any differences. But I did make sure Doug Duba at Chicago Gaming was aware of the topic, and he will look into to it. I've also alerted Stern production manager of it as to see if they can see it, apparently whatever is going on is not obvious and not sure under which light or conditions, etc."

#180 3 years ago

I mentioned a great way for them to weed out the bad ones is to look at the "Jackpot" and center line of inserts leading up into the castle and compare them to the others (Catapult, Joust, Peasant, Castle...etc.). The difference is obvious even without light underneath. They are faded/transparent when the others are opaque.

#181 3 years ago

Rick at PPS is aware of this and has contacted and talked with CGC and Stern. He said they are looking into it. Hopefully they fix this for games that haven't shipped and for the people that have the problem already.

#182 3 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Yes yours looks to be a defect.

You might be right. There are dark and light spots, and definitely aren't opaque like the ones with the white outlines. Mine is #393.

#183 3 years ago

Mine has this issue also, I did notice in the first couple of days and thought that it was disappointing but hadn't thought of putting a ticket in for it.

I decided not to worry about it and just enjoy the game

But I'm watching this thread to see what happens. I don't expect them to send me a playfield in Australia.

I'm not at home atm so can't have a look but is there easy access to the backs of the inserts?
I wonder if we could draw over the print with black from the rear with a special pen that would put on a thick layer that the light would not penetrate?
I know that would take a bit of work and possibly wouldn't be as good as the first batch still but it might be an improvement?

#184 3 years ago

Here is a video I just made of my MMR so people can see the difference between good and bad inserts on MMR As you can see the castle crusher insert is correct but the surrounding inserts are transparent. I chose to pick these because it shows both what they should all look like versus what the problem inserts look like on the same machine in the same light backlit and not backlit. Here is a short clip

#185 3 years ago

Keep in mind these are not the worst inserts on the machine and that should tell you a lot

#186 3 years ago
Quoted from Drewblood419:

Here is a video I just made of my MMR so people can see the difference between good and bad inserts on MMR As you can see the castle crusher insert is correct but the surrounding inserts are transparent. I chose to pick these because it shows both what they should all look like versus what the problem inserts look like on the same machine in the same light backlit and not backlit. Here is a short clip
ยป YouTube video

YouTube compresses them so much it's really hard to see. Love the little "dada" at the end.

#187 3 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

On the original the grid is used on the 5 knights. Starburst is only on the King of Payne.

Ah! I wasn't aware of that. (It's been SO LONG since I've played an actual game..) Thanks!

#188 3 years ago

Trying to get a good comparison shot for CGC and Rick to see - noticed the Troll and Extra Ball light are right beside each other. One has the defect...one is opaque. This photo is with ALL LAMPS on - so the brightness of both inserts are the same. Here is an example of the difference.

IMG_0204_(resized).JPG

#189 3 years ago

That's not a good example to use....the extra ball text has a red print border. The black text on most of the inserts don't have a border.

#190 3 years ago

If it was one - screw it...but it's across the entire playfield. All the inserts without borders.

#191 3 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

That's not a good example to use....the extra ball text has a red print border. The black text on most of the inserts don't have a border.

It's the ones with the border that are the only opaque ones. All the others are transparent/faded.

#192 3 years ago

I removed my above quote that I took from another thread where PPS had stated they would like to see more people file claims for damage done in shipping. At the request of the author.

So apparently they or he have read this thread.

#193 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I removed my above quote that I took from another thread where PPS had stated they would like to see more people file claims for damage done in shipping. At the request of the author.
So apparently they or he have read this thread.

Rick wanted the quotes of his posts removed? That is pathetic unless they were edited or taken way out of context. Did he give a reason or do we just assume they are overwhelmed with issues? I'm sure they are aware of the issues at this point but getting the serial numbers of the problem games is good QC inform for batches and inspection. Assuming something is going to be done.

#194 3 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Rick wanted the quotes of his posts removed? That is pathetic unless they were edited or taken way out of context. Did he give a reason or do we just assume they are overwhelmed with issues? I'm sure they are aware of the issues at this point but getting the serial numbers of the problem games is good QC inform for batches and inspection. Assuming something is going to be done.

It was out of context. Rick was right to ask.

o-din, don't be a troll now

#195 3 years ago
Quoted from IndianaPwns:

It was out of context. Rick was right to ask.
o-din, don't be a troll now

Not cool then. This is causing enough stress for people waiting for games.

#196 3 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

That's not a good example to use....the extra ball text has a red print border. The black text on most of the inserts don't have a border.

The extra ball has white ink under the black, like the blue inserts and jackpot inserts. That's why they look better.

#197 3 years ago

It was out of context.

It was a quote of his wanting people to file claims against shipping companies not his wanting people to file claims for warranty repairs. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. Time to go play pinball.

#198 3 years ago

In case anyone's keeping track, my stainless #651 has faded inserts.

#199 3 years ago

There was a bad batch of IJ insert decals out on the market for a while that looked just like this. The issue was that the decal needed to be printed white first, then black over that. Without being white backed it would be too transparent. Not sure if that helps or anything though, just related issue perhaps?

#200 3 years ago

I have 661 and have the issue. When off I can read them when on I can not. White backing and bolder font would help but I doubt CG would even warrant an expensive fix for a minor issue like this.

Personally I believe a fix would be a dimmer LED or a different color LED. Maybe. Need to test this. The white is so bright that does no help. The original incandescent were 1/2 the brightness. Like trying to see someone standing in headlights its hard to see.

Also the faceted prism like insert does not help as it magnifies the simmer of the led, etc.

Maybe CG can mess with software brightness or color variants in the software to fix this.

Would I like a new insert PF with super black lettering? YES! But I am ok with this since its a very expensive fix for CG (if they have to replace) and its not really a big deal. We know which King were shooting.

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