(Topic ID: 128232)

MMR Owners Club, all things MMR discussed

By SuperPinball

4 years ago

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  • Latest reply 18 minutes ago by bicyclenut
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Post #1 first pic Posted by SuperPinball (4 years ago)

Post #3445 anti scratch tape Posted by Jarbyjibbo (1 year ago)

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#402 3 years ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

Those balls sure fly around a lot. my pf is starting to look like the surface of the moon.

You can't do much about it with this title. Like other games you can stand up the targets and re-enforce them, etc but the trolls will always throw the balls around.

Don't worry after a while the entire PF will get a "uniform" shiny orange peel surface. You're just going through the tough phase of the journey right now

2 months later
#596 3 years ago
Quoted from surfajl77:

Thanks for the pic. So you would just loosen the post and slide it down to narrow the outlane?


1 week later
#604 3 years ago

If you mean the insert under the apron the standard answer is that it is a test insert to set the height during the PF production run.

Sounds feasible anyways right? I'm sworn to secrecy on the real answer however...

2 months later
#703 3 years ago

If it's like the original it's clearcoat.

2 months later
#898 3 years ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

(sales propaganda removed) I'm absolutely confident that they will find a solution and will ensure that the next remake will be made with the highest of standards. Purchase with confidence, Chicago Gaming makes a great product and you do not need to worry.

Maybe you missed it but try telling the 75-100 MMr customers that got stuck with a factory second PF (that's what PF's with defects are called) and were told they would have to live with it. Now they have a machine worth considerably less than the other "lucky" MMr owners.

Sure they had a good track record up till then BUT that's what happened. Maybe when they were doing contract work for WMS, etc those companies would reject the bad PF's. But NOT when CGC was fully in charge. Rather than do the right thing and print some more proper PF's for their "valued" customers they chose to save every penny and make the customer eat the mistake. Outrageous (as Judge Judy would say)

So we learned a lot about the company during this. Thinking the SAME exact thing could not happen again would be another mistake.
Obviously... yes you DO need to worry.

YOU can be as "confident" as YOU like but that is completely meaningless... try telling that to the people that got screwed with this first remake.

Other than that I thought it turned out pretty well - but having to cross your fingers and hope you'll be lucky enough to get a "good" one for 8k is completely unacceptable. I'd hate to see another group of buyers get screwed again.

#903 3 years ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

I am not saying that I guarantee that every single thing coming out of CGC will be perfect but based on their long history and with the overwhelming majority of MMR owners with positive experiences, I feel confident that CGC can deliver a quality product.

Well, heck - at least people can look back through the threads to see what happened and when it happened.

I respect your opinion but one *fact* we know is that for a period during production a group of owners did NOT get the quality PF that the other owners received. They got a factory second PF with faded text on the inserts. And if they put it up for sale and disclose it has this issue they will be offered less for it or the potential buyer will simply wait to buy one that does NOT have the issue. If I was a buyer I would simply wait for a "good one"... not helpful to the seller of the MMr "second".

I don't think offering owners that paid full price for the game a chance to spend *another* two hundred dollars for a four hundred dollar blank PF is good customer service at all. After paying as much as the earlier buyers THEY now get to spend *more* money and maybe 20-30 hrs of frustrating work to swap out the PF's. That's IF they can do that at all. Crazy.

I also don't think sending out a cheap piece of plastic that dims and yellows the inserts as a rube goldberg fix is good customer service either.
At least it showed they knew there was an issue. Everybody else who called during that time (including my friend) were told, in the nicest possible way, that it "falls within factory specs".

btw I deleted the Churchill "propaganda" not to be rude (or "deceptive") but because NOW... it simply doesn't matter. Who cares how long they made PF's for WMS, etc because with this last product they deliberately sent customers factory second's... at no discount or warning to the customer. There's your "fly by night" company behavior right there. Or is that "Mickey Mouse"?
So we can dump the old glowing pitch about their history in the biz as THIS is their new "history" for the potential customer to consider.

What I found most unbelievable was the *fact* that they KEPT assembling and shipping games with these imperfect PF's for months and being fully aware of it. That's some chutzpah there! Thank goodness they finally ran out of the defective PF's or were shamed into eventually running a new batch. I'm happy for the new owners.

I hope you agree that their recent behavior should at least cause a prospective buyer to pause and give it serious consideration. I know *you're* confident but I wouldn't be. But maybe that's just me...

Still... I'd be completely on your side my friend if it wasn't for this new attitude of theirs. I've ended up with a lot of nice Churchill PF's over the years. Sorry for the long post btw

#904 3 years ago

And not to belabor this (any more than I obviously have)... the customer service you described is actually quite comical really.

Customer calls and sends pics of his obviously faded inserts: CGC says "Well it looks fine to US but if you want a BETTER one...like the ones the OTHER customers got - we can sell you one of those for $200 and maybe 30 hrs of your labor!"

Sounds like the setup to a comedy skit... you just can't make this %$#$ up

#910 3 years ago
Quoted from TimeForNostalgia:

I just had the mantis protector installed. Does it look like it is installed correctly? I feel like it is sitting to high. It also seems to be stopping the ball more often than not. Thanks for the help.

Even though Kerry's Mantis protectors offer the best protection and are appropriate when you don't want/need to hide the edge of the hole - they do lead to more ball rejects when used on smaller openings.

For example on the small snack bar hole from CFTBL I had to replace the Mantis with a Cliffy edge-style protector simply because with the small opening the increased mass of the Mantis caused a frustrating amount of ball rejects. They work great on larger openings like AFM, etc... don't know how well they work on MM's Merlin hole.

Do you actually need one on MMr? It seems there is already a metal ring around the front of the hole. I know on my original MM I have no protection at all (not even that metal ring) and there is no wear at all. Then again I don't really have time to play the hell out of it but I've had it since '97.

The problem I had with the Merlin hole was the typical one of the ball flying out to the right and not getting credit for the shot. I finally ended up with a small amount of foam on the back of the hole. Too much and it couldn't kick it out - too little and the ball still flew out to the pops on the right. Frustrating but finally tamed. Now I just have to be careful not to hit that shot unless I'm sure I've built it up for multiball... the usual "ooh no I'm starting multiball after only completing the catapult"

Good luck!

1 week later
#945 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinzap:

Thanks. This is reassuring and I'm assuming my FT doesn't show it because the entire pf has been dimpled flat so to speak?

It's not just this. Some games simply don't fling the ball around with such force that it is airborn half the time. My CFTBL has no real dimples and that's because the flippers aren't overpowered and the ball simply rolls around and stays on the PF. Same with LOTR believe it or not. Most modern high energy games have more powerful flippers and layouts that tend to send the ball all over the place. MM fits that category. Even if you point your targets down and reinforce them you can't stop the trolls from flinging the ball up in the air so you just have to live with it.
I bought my MM when it came out in '97 and after a few painful years it finally evened out. Same with AFM, etc.

I have a nice FT though and it's lack of dimpling is simply because it doesn't really have a bash toy (captive ball however) and the balls just don't get airborn. Most other titles do get mildly to heavily dimpled though. I can tell my TWD will be the dimple king for a while.

2 months later
#1055 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Take off two wire clips, take off the two springs, remove the troll flap. Then unplug two connectors and unbolt the whole assembly and drop down. And on reassembly lose the clips or springs trying to get them back on the posts on the metal flap.
Or my way, one connector and one bolt. Hmmmmmmm , my way seems easier. Though the left troll you would need to remove the wireform above it.
per3per3 didn't do what I posted and removed the wrong thing and no way he can get the troll carriage out of the game.
LTG : )

I had to remove the left troll because of an intermittent switch and indeed it is *much* easier to pull it up and out. I was dreading
the other method (I've done it before) but removing the black bolt and simply pulling up the mech is the way to go.

Not sure why he can't wiggle the assembly free. If it's the misaligned/broken leaf switch then he needs to simply line those up - put that
nut back on (if that helps hold them straight) and try again.

I'd agree that trying to take the troll flap off to pull it from underneath might too much for a first time attempt.

#1058 3 years ago
Quoted from tslayer71:

I guess will have to agree to disagree. I can tell you that going through the bottom does work....

It does work. But the fiddly job of removing the troll flap might be too much for a first timer. The other method involves a single bolt...one that he has already removed.

#1061 3 years ago
Quoted from tslayer71:

You don't have to remove troll flap at all - just fit it through playfield, that's the beauty of it....

Yeah I now understand. Did not realize the flap would indeed make it through the PF hole attached...interesting. Still he claims he has the black bolt out at this point so the thing should be out at this point from the top.

If it's just the leaf switch that needs adjusting (like mine did) I don't know why I'd want to remove the entire assembly though. Even to replace it (as it looks like he will have to) he'll still just need the top half.

Still - I learned a new trick today. Thx!

#1062 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Because the troll carriage is still bolted to the plunger. I posted to remove the bolt holding the troll carriage to plunger. par3par3 removed the locknut holding the plastic switch guard on.
LTG : )

Yeah I saw that too but in his very next message he said he had now removed the black bolt and that it was free... but wouldn't pass through the hole. So who knows now??

#1064 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Because the troll carriage is still bolted to the plunger. I posted to remove the bolt holding the troll carriage to plunger. par3par3 removed the locknut holding the plastic switch guard on.
LTG : )

post #1041 says he got the bolt out... if that helps.

1 month later
#1180 2 years ago
Quoted from SNES:

I just wanted to give a quick shoutout to CGC and Marc for the assistance with my sharp side rails. They went above and beyond what I was expecting to make sure everything was handled. Great customer service and immediate responses. Very happy. Now back to rocking out on MMr!

What did they do?

2 weeks later
#1284 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinzap:

The obvious and only correct response is a resounding "NO". I would never setup a game as you had said, but I wouldn't judge someone who did. This isn't an olympic sport with exacting specifications for everyone to follow to get the exact gameplay. Heck, that wouldn't even be possible from pin to pin with all the same settings because of other uncontrollable variances in the game.
I guess it's not for me to say that if someone has a poor reaction time and will NEVER be able to get to a score of 10 million (to choose a random example) on factory settings, then why shouldn't they be allowed to decrease the software difficulty setting or increase their ability to get extra balls? Of course, if they want to play in tournaments against other game-hardened players, they will be in for a rude awakening.
My personal preference is to set the game up as hard as I can to still have fun and then I hope to improve while playing over time. Then, will set it up even harder. Maybe ultimately you might have the outlane rubbers removed on your pin? How about 7 or 7.5 degrees on the playfield? Setting up the tiltbob so that if the AC fan kicks on in the house you get a warning? I guess it's all a spectrum of difficulty levels and someone has to be on the ends.
It's still just a game... until we come to tournament time!!
Play more pinball!!!!

Makes sense. Plus we never really know how a game "is supposed to be played".

You read stories of game designers that thought they were finished with the game and then "the management" tells them that the ball times are too long and it won't earn enough.

So then outlanes get set wide open, extra balls go away, etc,etc... but this may have not been the designer's intent at all.

So be aware that when you play the game "the way it was intended" you may be playing the bean counter's vision of the game - not the design team's original concept or vision.

#1377 2 years ago

I thought it was an angry goat with the beard and horns...lol Still it's a cool idea.

#1408 2 years ago
Quoted from KozMckPinball:

Is that Williams speaker panel lettering silver or gold? It's hard to tell from the picture and both options are out there. What was the original MM color of "Williams"? Thanks!

Silver. Plastic chrome lettering. Not a decal.

1 month later
#1610 2 years ago

I've had my MM since day one... and in twenty years I've never broken a plastic. Even have a full backup set in the closet I've never needed to use. No protectors either.

I DID tilt both standups downward and reinforce them to reduce airballs from the very beginning however.

I don't think you really need any protectors for this title... unless you just want to spend some unwanted cash burning a hole in your pocket (as so many love to do in this hobby).

#1612 2 years ago
Quoted from KozMckPinball:

Protectors are cheap, its the manual labor that's burning the hole. The mantis castle protector for the lock ball shot takes about 30 seconds to install and I've seen worn out lock shot games on route. Mantis makes you buy 4 protectors though cannot get just the castle one. That and the ball eject shooter lane cliffy, another quick install, and some sort of merlin hole protection would be the minimum needed for MMR. Maybe the Cliffy drawbridge edge protector as well, 10 seconds to install. Probably could pass on plastic protectors that's true. I have full mantis, cliffys and Pinbits merlin and plastic protectors. Doesn't hurt to have them and its probably a couple hundred bucks max.

Yeah I was talking about plastic protectors.

That said my shooter lane still looks fine in home use with no cliffy... for these newer machines with the apparently brittle CC the shooter lane and castle lock protectors are probably indeed a good idea.

1 week later
#1730 2 years ago
Quoted from Rock914:

My Undercab kit for this machine uses 8 feet of leds so it can handle plenty of strips. I make actual connectors to tie into flashers so no mistakes can be made. Some people have the know how but many do not.
If you want something made with a connector just ask. Yes you will pay more money having me do it vs. you but I am much cheaper and less painful than having to fix your boards.
To my knowledge I am the only one who provides a plug and play mods for MMR all others I know of use alligator clips or solder it yourself systems. I make a Moat flasher, speaker lights, backpanel mod, and my Interactive Undercab kit.
lermods may have some plug and play stuff as well I just am not that familiar with his products. I do see he has many for this machine though.

Yeah your stuff is great. I used to "roll my own" but after getting one of your kits and seeing the elegant design I somehow lost the urge to do it myself. Plus the way you'll customize it any way the customer wants at no extra charge and other benefits makes it a no brainer.

Also you're one of the few that can pull off stylin' a fedora - now THAT sold me

#1764 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

I would not being using Novus on the playfield, even #1 is still a bit abrasive. That's just my opinion though. I would clean with microfiber cloth and use good old fashioned carnauba wax.

Novus 1 has no abrasives. It's meant for quick cleaning of soft plastic clear motorcycle helmets that scratch easily.

It's ok for quick wipedowns and light cleaning between waxing. It won't do much about cleaning up ball trails obviously.

Careful use of Novus 2 can shine up ball return lanes but by it's very nature it has to cut into the CC to remove the trails so not going nuts with it is important.

#1765 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

NEW! Medieval Madness (MMr or Original) Custom barrel spot lights

So these are re-purposed Hobbit barrel spots?

#1773 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

So a little Novus 2 will clean up the trails?
I have Mill Wax from a local Pinball shop. Is that a good one to use after to wax the pf?
Also, I was under the impression that new games did not need to be waxed for a while? I got mine in January, so it's only a few months old with about 500 games played.

Mill Wax was considered in the old days "the Ops best friend" because it's abrasive AND leaves a little wax behind. So the hurried Op could hit the PF once to clean and wax.

But for home it really doesn't do either very well and has such caustic chemicals the plastic bottle itself becomes brittle in a couple years and will crack and make a hell of a mess.

Like others have said - a little Novus 2 on the trails and then a couple coats of wax. After 500 plays it's ready for it.

3 months later
#2181 2 years ago
Quoted from KozMckPinball:

I fixed it. There are 2 screws that go in the back of each troll head. In my case, the right troll top screw of those two had worked its way loose and was thrown out onto the playfield when the trolls came up. The screw could be finger tightened only, a wrench does not fit in the space there. Anyway, problem solved.

At some point you'll need to do some disassembly to properly tighten it down. Just finger tightening means it will come off again soon as the troll slams itself up and down.

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