(Topic ID: 128232)

# MMR Owners Club, all things MMR discussed

## BySuperPinball

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#987 3 years ago

Has anyone installed a full playfield protector for MMR? Where did you get it? Do you have any install tips? I see some from rop...

2 months later
#1070 2 years ago

I am setting up MMR as I just picked it up. I cannot unlock the backbox. Are the backbox keys and the coin door keys the same? For some reason it won't turn the lock. Thanks!

#1072 2 years ago

Should be another key hanging on a clip on the coin door I think.....

Yes found it! Thanks for the head's up.

2 weeks later
#1120 2 years ago

Any advice on installing the Cliffy ball eject protector and the Cliffy catapault protector? I am not sure what needs to be disassembled, the Cliffy site details are lacking.

#1123 2 years ago

Remove the two screws that hold the apron to the playfield hanger bracket (which hooks onto the lockdown bar). The apron should practically fall forward on its own, so catch it. I think you'll be able to see how the ball-eject protector fits.

I installed the Cliffy ball eject protector and the Cliffy Catapault protector. Thanks for your advice it was very helpful.

#1124 2 years ago

Anybody install the Cliffy moat jump protector? I am having a hard time figuring out what to disassemble for access.

#1126 2 years ago

Anybody install the Cliffy moat jump protector? I am having a hard time figuring out what to disassemble for access.

Any ideas?

#1128 2 years ago

You have to take off most of the castle and if you are good enough you won't have to take off the left ramp. Just take a bunch of pictures and go for it!

The moat jump protector has an underside the playfield tab. Do you have to unscrew the green moat to get the tab underneath?

#1132 2 years ago

Here's a pic of when I did mine. The two towers have screws on each top and the entire front of castle comes right off afterwards for easy access. Ramp does not need to be removed.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-owners-club-all-things-mmr-discussed/page/15#post-3270153
Here's some more install pics on Cliffy's website.
http://www.passionforpinball.com/mm.htm

I did take the castle front off like you showed but I could not figure out how to access the 2 screws holding the braket on that's already there. There is plastic preventing a socket wrench from getting in there. Any ideas?

#1137 2 years ago

Are there batteries to worry about leaking on the MMR somewhere? Didn't see them in my travels under the playfield.

#1138 2 years ago

I did take the castle front off like you showed but I could not figure out how to access the 2 screws holding the braket on that's already there. There is plastic preventing a socket wrench from getting in there. Any ideas?

Any Ideas? (Cliffy Moat Jump Protector install...)

#1141 2 years ago

I just put mine in today. take the two nuts off of the plastic. you should be able to squeeze a nut driver or socket with an extension bar in to loosen the screws.

2 nuts meaning nut near a red cone light behind and above the moat jump and the second one is the catapault ball guide nut on the side? Sorry looked at this for awhile yesterday and did not see how to get the plastic loose.

#1143 2 years ago

Catapult side nut and then the two nuts on the plastic. You should also compress a few of those off white connectors to loosen up the tower plastics that has the red flasher in it. That way you can move the plastics around to acess that particular nut much easier.

Would you mind snapping a picture for me regarding this?

Not near my MMR right now but will do late tonite if you do not have a response yet by then.

2 weeks later
#1208 2 years ago

Here's a question for fellow MMR owners. How many of you have reached BFTK?
I have destroyed all castles but the final one once or twice, but did not have any of the other requirements completed. I also once reached Royal Madness, but again, didn't have anything else completed to get close to BFTK.
I've only owned the game for a month, and prior to that, I hadn't played pinball in almost 2 decades, and only ever played stuff on consoles.
From where I stand now, it seems impossible to ever reach BFTK.
Cheers

Not sure why, maybe its the backglass king and BFTK has BK in it, but whenever I see BFTK written I think of the burger king commercial's grinning king stealing the football. 60ish plays on MMR Standard and no BFTK yet, top score only 48-49 million so far.

#1233 2 years ago

I put all 10 Pinbits plastic protectors on my MMR. Has anyone noticed or determined why the plastic is missing (left side of castle shot where the yellow troll counter switch is) from MMR that was on MM? Pinbits has a protector for it but its just bare metal no plastic. Will an MM plastic fit here? Not sure why PPS\CGC left this off the MMR...

1 week later
#1277 2 years ago

Depends on the game, but generally I see this as cheating. Your game, your rules though.

If it's configurable in the machine, how's that cheating?

#1281 2 years ago

Just my opinion...you can set extra balls for multiple score thresholds (4 I believe), close up the outlanes, give yourself 10 balls per game, 10 tilt warnings (remove the tilt bob too), crank the ball saver time up and number of ball saves, crank merlin's extra ball to 40%, drop castle extra ball to 1, make castle multiball extra ball to easy, drop all the troll settings to easy, drop hurry up extra ball to 1, drop the fire video mode requirement to 5 spellings, etc.
Is any of that cheating? The game lets you do it.

Well high scores should only be reported for factory settings then. Good luck getting that level of detail from a score reporter.

#1285 2 years ago

It looks like I'm getting a nib MMR LE.
Best nib pin available right now for me. I've had my eye on MMR for a while but was in no rush to buy. When the last call for MMR orders was communicated recently (production ending) and AFMR was confirmed that spurred me to finally decide to get the MMR.
At least being at the end I know the whole MMR story here; been following this thread for a long time. As for the machine itself, I like what I've seen.
I'm supposedly getting the last MMR LE in stock at Starburst. No fuss no muss is the way. I went LE since I wanted the shaker and the discount on the high res dmd color upgrade is significant.
Why did I personally chose MMR?
1. Theme. Knights, kings. trolls and dragons in the middle ages are a great theme with huge appeal. And I have no other pin in the genre.
2. I love what I see on the pf and for play. Great toys. With this I think I have the top two toys in pinball (or at least two of the top toys) in my collection now.
3. I haven't played MM in twenty years, and didn't much back then either. This pin will be new to me in play and feel, just like any other new release pinball machine.
4. I expect it to fit nicely into my collection. I like a mix of pin playing styles, and want my collection to have more pins that are harder and deeper. It should slot nicely in between TWD (hard and short games) and POTC (easier and long games) which are by far my most played games.
5. Hard to find locally and should hold its value well.
Time to join the MMR community.
Any ownership advice is appreciated. I need to do some reading up on that history. I'm familiar with the basics of MM pf protection options and basic mods.

I guess you are stating that the POTC ship one of the top 2 toys in pinball, gleaned from your post. Ownership advice, the backbox key is (thanks LTG) inside the game hanging on the backside of the coin door. Do not use the deadening foam with the Pinbits merlin hole protector or you'll hang a ball during a great game and be pissed when you have to remove the glass to free it. The small red plastic that needs Pinbits plastic protector near the pops is really tough to access. loosen the top plastic above the damsel ramp and there's a slot to access the downside nut on that plastic, then angle a socket wrench to get the backside nut off. Then use an index finger from both hands to reset the nuts (underneath the ramp from both sides) after putting the protector on and reseating the plastic. There's not enough room to fit your hand in there. It's the toughest plastic protector to do. Sometimes during multiball, you can get 2 balls into the catapault at the same time and the machine won't clear them, you have to remove the glass. I have not solved that one yet.

#1286 2 years ago

I guess you are stating that the POTC ship one of the top 2 toys in pinball, gleaned from your post. Ownership advice, the backbox key is (thanks LTG) inside the game hanging on the backside of the coin door. Do not use the deadening foam with the Pinbits merlin hole protector or you'll hang a ball during a great game and be pissed when you have to remove the glass to free it. The small red plastic that needs Pinbits plastic protector near the pops is really tough to access. loosen the top plastic above the damsel ramp and there's a slot to access the downside nut on that plastic, then angle a socket wrench to get the backside nut off. Then use an index finger from both hands to reset the nuts (underneath the ramp from both sides) after putting the protector on and reseating the plastic. There's not enough room to fit your hand in there. It's the toughest plastic protector to do. Sometimes during multiball, you can get 2 balls into the catapault at the same time and the machine won't clear them, you have to remove the glass. I have not solved that one yet.

And be careful when the glass is off and the playfield is lifted the side rail edges are sharp as a steak knife.

#1294 2 years ago

Can anyone explain what actually gives you bonus points? Not the multiplier but the score that gets multiplied.

Maybe yellow switch trigger Troll counts that were not high enough to enable Troll mode before draining?

#1365 2 years ago

I agree. I have an MMR standard. The only difference between my game and the LE is the plaque, as I'm buying the shaker and installing it. But it will be listed as a separate game, with separate ratings because of a small piece of metal glued to the middle of the apron?

And black painted cabinet interior on the LE. Don't forget that.

#1394 2 years ago

Looking for help increasing the merlin hole kickout strength. I have adjusted the solenoid strength for generic solenoids in the CGC menu but it still takes many tries for the kickout to get the ball out. Was fine until I installed the mantis merlin hole protector, problematic ever since. I do not want to remove the mantis protector and it is in there as perfectly to design as possible. Anyone solve this? One thing I tried is that a pair of orange and white wires I had running underneath the solenoid bracket when I reinstalled it and I thought that was impeding the solenoid movement so I put it over the top of the solenoid where it should have been, Still problematic, sometimes 10 - 20 tries to kickout the ball. Thanks!

#1407 2 years ago

nice mod

Is that Williams speaker panel lettering silver or gold? It's hard to tell from the picture and both options are out there. What was the original MM color of "Williams"? Thanks!

#1421 2 years ago

Ive started to have an issue with Merlin's VUK. Merlin's VUK, doesnt work after game is at rest for a few hours or more.
Over the past week or so (have had the pin for 1yr, NIB), when I start playing MMr, when the ball goes into the Merlin hole, it is registered by an audible or Merlin's magic, but the VUK doesnt kick the ball up. Then the pin goes into search mode, then kicks the ball. For all the next times the ball goes into Merlin's hole, it gets kicked out no problem for the rest of the time I play 2,3, 10 games.
This only seems to happen when the machine get turned on or has been left on but has not been played for a number of hours. Sight inspection under play field show no obvious issue.
Any idea why/how this can happen?

On advice for LTG, I solved my merlin non-kickout issues by put a single #8 washer under the solenoid bracket for the left side screw. Left meaning looking at it from underneath the playfield. Not sure why this works but it does. The mechanism to detect the ball in the hole is separate from the kickout, that mechanism is the silver thin bar. It's also possible that the solenoid (a black cylinder comes up and down to kickout) cylinder is stuck in an up position and won't kickout. I had this problem after installing the mantis merlin hole protector, it interferes with that cylinder if you are not careful. So play the game with the glass off and see if that cylinder is stuck up first before the ball search clears it.

#1423 2 years ago

Was the black cylinder plunger stuck in the up position?

#1428 2 years ago

damn!!!! its happening again.

Yes, did switch test, the switch registers. any other idea's why the VUK doesnt work when dormant for a while, but then after ball search it starts working??

#1435 2 years ago

Gotta be, as I understand it that's how it triggers.

There's a silver piece of metal that acts as a ball detector the weight of the ball switches it, there's not an optos in the Merlin Hole.

#1446 2 years ago

I don't know what is "required" but here's a list of the main protectors.
Mantis MM protector 4 piece set
Cliffy MMR protectors 6 piece set
Pinbits MMR plastics protectors 10 piece set
Trolls mylar marco, ebay, etc.
Generic mylar at marco, etc.

Trolls mylar is factory installed on my MMR Standard. "6" Cliffys? Catapault, Shooter ball eject, drawbridge edge, moat jump are all the cliffy's needed on MMR. The other 2 are ramp protectors and are not required on MMR just MM. Pinbits makes a Merlin hole (topside) protector that should be on that list as well.

#1447 2 years ago

Was looking at the Cliffys, and it looked a little daunting to do the catapult and moat jump & ramp protectors.
Can anyone comment on this, as I'm new to the hobby.
Also, are there any videos showing the install?
Cheers

The mantis stuff (other than the castle protector), require drilling the underside of the playfield. Make sure to use a bit smaller in diameter than the screw and drill to the screw depth before installing the screws or you'll crack the wood around the screw hole. The Pinbits plastic protector install requires ALOT of playfield disassembly so keep track of where the screws and nuts and parts go back. You can do all of the disassembly with 2 different size sockets and a socket wrench. The Pinbits plastics set has 10 pieces but one does not have a playfield plastic to protect, it's the one in front of the castle. That's normal. The hardest plastic protector to install is the red U-shaped plastic near the pop bumpers, use an index finger from each hand under the damsel ramp to get the nuts in position and the plastic back in. One hand will not fit underneath the damsel ramp. Just loosen and move the top shield on that ramp out of the way and a socket wrench will fit down into the ramp diverter slot to get the forward nut in and out. Some of the plastics require removing the red cone shaped reflectors so just put a socket over it to keep it still and loosen it with another socket and wrench from underneath. Good Luck!

2 weeks later
#1549 2 years ago

My strategy is to keep pounding the black posts beside the ramps. I can hit these 10-15 times in a row, this is followed by shots to the yellow troll target while trying to hit the castle (either entrance). This allows me to light the troll target, bounce out of the merlin hole at least 4 times in a row (no foam for me!) before landing in the merlin hole, starting trolls, hitting one troll 3 times, one troll twice and STDM. (I swear if they awarded points for those black posts, I'd have 100mm on every ball)
When I'm not employing the above, here is what I have been trying lately. Get one madness. Then try to get multiple madnesses to increase the value of the castle hurry up before aiming for the castle. When it works, it is a great strategy. When it doesn't my wife gives me hell for leaving all those points on the table.

Put some Cliffy post sleeves of a different color on the ramp posts. No more hitting the black ones.

#1558 2 years ago

Not sure I understand the importance of hitting ramp post???

facetious

#1567 2 years ago

For those with a standard, can you please add your rating of the game to pinside so we can get it listed with MM and MMRLE on the top 100 page.

Need 7 more ratings. Right now its at 9.17 rating.

1 week later
#1601 2 years ago

One other thing... I noticed recently that occasionally I will shoot the ball through the "Lock", but it will see it as a hit to the castle. If I'm not mistaken, it has happened one the final shot to destroy a castle the 2-3 times it has happened so far.
Any ideas?

I've had this happen once and was going to post about it, but you beat me to it! Mine also happened on the "explode" hit (already opened porticulus). I forget which Kingsman it was.

#1604 2 years ago

This is the one you want.

https://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27&products_id=164&zenid=f0409a4313f1663ec9aeab4db0de538f

The smaller plastic protector, lower left, goes in front of the castle and has no factory shipped plastic to protect, I guess LTG stated that some owners put a custom plastic here and then use the protector. Also, the plastic (4th from the left in top row) that goes near the pops is a pita to install, the hardest one. I mention my approach at post #1447 in this thread. There is also an MMR Protector Poll dedicated thread.

#1605 2 years ago

For the plastic protector install you need two different socket sizes, I forget what they are. Some plastics require removal of the red plastic domes, some do not. To remove the red plastic domes, put a socket over the dome to keep it from rotating and a socket underneath the plastic to loosen at the same time.

#1607 2 years ago

I can't remember what forum I was in, but someone led me to believe that broken plastics were a thing of the past. Actually I think it was in the afmr discussion and it was Rick from Pps. He said they're made from a better material now and don't need protectors. Can anyone verify or deny this?

Someone did state that I remember it as well, type of plastic used is PET G or something. Pinbits still makes them for MMR and its cheap money, but half a day's work to get them in. If putting in a playfield protector or cliffy's you can do it right alongside.

#1609 2 years ago

You could probably start a thread asking for feedback on this, but I have broken many plastics on original (old) Williams machines. I have never broken a plastic on a modern Stern. I do not install plastic protectors on modern machines, including my MMr.

You must not have a 2007 SM.

#1611 2 years ago

I've had my MM since day one... and in twenty years I've never broken a plastic. Even have a full backup set in the closet I've never needed to use. No protectors either.
I DID tilt both standups downward and reinforce them to reduce airballs from the very beginning however.
I don't think you really need any protectors for this title... unless you just want to spend some unwanted cash burning a hole in your pocket (as so many love to do in this hobby).

Protectors are cheap, its the manual labor that's burning the hole. The mantis castle protector for the lock ball shot takes about 30 seconds to install and I've seen worn out lock shot games on route. Mantis makes you buy 4 protectors though cannot get just the castle one. That and the ball eject shooter lane cliffy, another quick install, and some sort of merlin hole protection would be the minimum needed for MMR. Maybe the Cliffy drawbridge edge protector as well, 10 seconds to install. Probably could pass on plastic protectors that's true. I have full mantis, cliffys and Pinbits merlin and plastic protectors. Doesn't hurt to have them and its probably a couple hundred bucks max.

#1616 2 years ago

This happens if you shoot into the Lock shortly after you opened the Castle gate (so as a direct shot after destroying the castle gate). This is not a bug, because in the virtual pinball version of MM, this is programmed the same way.

Sounds right. It happened to me during multiball I believe,

#1627 2 years ago

You sir, are a rockstar!
Man, daddy life has me tired! When I search BFTK on Youtube, I basically only saw the end of videos, or most of them were the Pinball Arcade captures.
This one is unreal: » YouTube video
Guy has incredible control! I seriously need to work on my live catches!

He's got the slingshot strength turned down.

#1630 2 years ago

Hmmmmm.... Guessing that would reduce side drains?

Bingo. Guy's got skills tho.

#1632 2 years ago

Mine was draining like mad when I had it at 6.5 degrees. Bumped it up to 6.8-6.9 degrees, and seems to be playing a little better. What do you guys have yours at?
And if you check out the video I just posted above, how the heck is that guy just raising his flipper to stop the ball? Seems odd!

Factory set 6.5 degrees loads of side drains. Check out some PAPA vids playing MM, there's voiceover as well from the player. He can catch as well. His name is Bo maybe? Search you tube for Medieval Madness gameplay.

#1634 2 years ago

Bowen Kerins. He's a beast! Sniper accuracy!
I'm curious to know what others have theirs set at?

Bowen describes and demonstrates the catch you are interested in early on in that PAPA MM gameplay video.

#1649 2 years ago

Can anyone comment and let me know if this seems like the ball is bouncing normally.
I'm curious now that a few people have said there ball drops and stays on the flipper.
Thanks

My experience is what you showed is normal. Same behavior on my machine. Sometimes bounces off the left flipper over to the right and sometime ends up bouncing on the laft flipper, staying there. There's some variation in behavior as the ball ejects from the moat into a wide lane orbit. Consistency would be a flag to me like in the player's video rather than what you are seeing\showing in your video. It's normal for my MMR.

#1682 2 years ago

Found out a couple of things playing MMR today. Yes, increasing the catapault strength, +1 I think is the setting, clears 2 balls in the catapault during multiball. Also, exploded Sir Psycho castle with a lock ball shot immediately after a direct gate castle gate shot. (No multiball at the time). Not sure if it works with all kingsmen, but I was curious which one when I saw it.

#1713 2 years ago

Hi
Do You have 1 or 2 keyxs for the backbox
at my new MMR i have just 1 inside of the coindoor

I have one.

#1719 2 years ago

Kudos to Rock914 for the guidance and help. I put in a ticket with Chicago Gaming and they were super helpful! I need to replace the Q33A FET.

Quick question. So an LED strip cannot be tied to the flasher without issues? Is that what CGC said? Will it blow the transistor every time? Interested in this mod...

#1721 2 years ago

I think it drohendste hier Long it Is
A Second LED flasher Couleur be installed without a Problem

Not sure what your comment is telling me. It should be possible to put in a short LED strip tied to the flasher without blowing something like the transistor mentioned?

#1724 2 years ago

It is possible. You won't blow anything unless you don't install it correctly. If you don't install it correctly, at a minimum, you will blow a fuse, but potentially the transistor or worse.

Meaning in this case either the LED strip was too long or leads reversed?

#1734 2 years ago

Anyone have green flashing lights to the front of the castle during gameplay? Emanating from the green moat I assume up the castle front. I've seen this on gameplay video but not sure if that's standard lighting or custom. When I am playing I have not noticed it on my MMR factory lighting.

#1737 2 years ago

First issue with mine, the right side of the playfield is scraping against the right siderail while lifting the playfield, starting to scrape off the black paint. Check the left versus right side as the playfield is in the lifted position, the left side has about 1/8" of room, the right is against the siderail. Nudging the playfield to the left works for a half a lift, until the playfield moves back against the right siderail again. Posted a ticket with CGC, but wanted to see if anyone else has run into this. Attached a pic showing the damage.
Also had some weird dangers/tilts without moving the machine, happening primarily in multi-ball mode, seemed to coincide with the top left skill shot lane.....and then it went away.....ahhh, the joys of tweaking and fine-tuning a new pin.....sigh....

Yeah hafta be careful sliding the playfield out and back with the razor edge side rails. Mine has enough space, barely, to carefully maneuver it without scalping the playfield sides. Others have suggested using a dremel and sandpaper too to dull the side rails. Yours is not the playfield side plywood like mine, but mounted parts above the playfield getting scraped, I do not have that issue.

#1741 2 years ago

First off Very sorry in advance if this has been covered! Picked up my NIB MMr 2 weeks ago and Absolutely love it! My only very minor issue is the credit dot and error for time/date. Yes I know I can create a service ticket at Chicago Gaming and they have been Wonderful but I hate to create work orders tickets for trivial tasks I am sure I can fix myself. Plus I save my call minutes to the Amazing Lloyd for Real issues or real head scratchers like I had with Hobbit. Man that guy is Really Great! (Hence the name) Anyway, was hoping someone could share a tip on clearing this time/date reset issue so I can move on more enjoyable tasks like Playing Pinball! I'm guessing battery?? Thanks in advance for Any help!!

Doug from CGC has posted on Pinside to get the 2.0.2 version firmware on the CGC website and install it to get rid of that credit dot date time issue.

#1779 2 years ago

Hi!
Merlin hole to powerful
Sometimes the ball hits the right ramp and jumps back in the hole
looks like the kickoff has to much power and may be not good for the plastic ramp
any ideas how to adjust this case?

There's a general solenoid power setting in the CGC menu, but nothing specific to the Merlin hole. Catapault has a dedicated setting though maybe trough and ball eject to shooter lane as well, not sure about that, or if its in the general solenoid setting as well.

#1788 2 years ago

Someone could have swapped the trim potentially, the plaque is the only real indictator for a LE I think.
As for the hobby/pricing. Some games demand a lot of money but others don't. There are good machines to be had at all price ranges. Don't think you have to spend $8k every time to get a good game. Serial number would be the correct indicator whether it's an LE or not, not necessarily just a plaque.. 1 week later #1795 2 years ago Every stadium needs some cheerleaders. #1799 2 years ago It's$150 for just the lights, and there's a promo where you can get the UV interactive flashers for an additional $25. The lights are controlled via an app and plug into your service outlet. It's basically two strips that magnetically attach to each side. You can pick whatever hue or brightness you want. MMR is the one game I wish was a bit brighter, so I jumped in. I love that it's adjustable and you can cast a warm white tone to match the factory GI. There's a lot more info in the main pinstadium thread. I agree that the backboard on MM\MMR is too dark out of the box, that's a good location mod. I wonder if this stadium one was considered with a diffuser? Individual LED light reflections are kind of annoying for any product like this. #1802 2 years ago I think purple looks the best! I hafta disagree. Lots of purple plastics sides and back and pops covers are purple but the color to have here is blue. And hooked to a flasher. Looks like lightning when flashed, the blue backboard and white bolts help this affect. Fantastic when the Trolls come up, the lightning display behind the castle and the 3rd lock ball sets off a lightning show to the audible thunder. #1813 2 years ago Originally I was concerned about that also, and I experimented on multiple early stage versions of the Pin Stadium kits, with and without diffusers throughout the creation process. With and without the awnings on top (the part that hides it from your eye when playing. The awnings were a must and went into the final production version without a doubt. I found that the diffuser dulled the lighting and really didn't help much compared to the non diffused. Plus it limited the throw distance of the light and caused a darkening effect in some areas across the playfield due to the decreased illumination. When you get them you I think you will see it is a non issue the way they are designed and not distracting either. I hope this helps to clarify and good question too. I should put this in our FAQ's section also. I see you tested the issue, but playfield, side board and plastic reflections of the individual LED patterns aren't eliminated by an awning. Just a point, that's all, that I saw when installing some custom lighting myself. I don't have your product, but I am sure that you've addressed the issue as much as possible. #1824 2 years ago Close to 300 games in, I finally lit all Madness inserts in the same game. Can't say I purposely tried doing that until lately but seems like I need to step my game up going forward if I ever want to get to BFTK. One interesting thing that happened in a prior game tonite was Merlin granted me Damsel Madness. Never saw that before but this particular game I earned them all. #1828 2 years ago As in blue lights (Master of...) or the actual Madnesses that take you to Royale Madness? Getting to either of them is a blast, so congrats! All Royals, only Master of Trolls also lit. Gotta ways to go... #1837 2 years ago You need to catapult each different item. After you collect them all, you need to get it in the catapult to start the Barnyard Multiball. I know I could find this answer in the MM rules digital booklet but what else is the object selection in the catapult used for? Are we supposed to get the cow for a bonus or multiplier or is it just random? #1845 2 years ago I was working on my second castle, usually get the Extra Ball lit after completing 2 castles, but had a consecutive left\right\left ramp combo and then extra ball got lit. Any insight on this or am I imagining it? #1849 2 years ago Yeah I lot of the times it comes back straight down the middle. It's basically how the pin is designed (risk vs reward) But I started nudging more. Or slapping the side of the cabinet right after it hits the castle gate and it's a bit more manageable. If you had friends over and they were slapping the cabinets you'd say nothing? Especially with the Stern cabinet issues? -1 #1855 2 years ago My MMr is cracking at the corners. I need to get some angle brackets to support it on the inside so it doesn't get worse. Have you been nudging\smacking it? #1887 2 years ago Does anyone sell or can recommend lollipop rails for MMR? #1890 2 years ago on a HUO with decals.....really not needed at all, those will yellow and be an eye sore Sorta agree but the plastic can be whitened if that ever happens, there are techniques here on Pinside to easily do that. Off-hand I forget what that procedure is though. #1893 2 years ago Sounds horrible considering they are not needed to begin with Maybe you do not have young kids, but I do. #1897 2 years ago I ordered them, thanks for the head's up! I have a question: Thought my MMR was starting to act differently during gameplay. I get a lit insert right from the start of a game, for all of the madness type shots. There is an insert lit for catapault, joust, peasant and damsel right away. I never noticed that before, so say the first time I ramp the damsel, 2 inserts are lit instead of just the first one. Also, I thought my replay was set at 20,000,000 but now its 19,000,000. I found a setting for it in the green menu or I guess its just a diagnostic screen telling me how many times I have reached a replay score. (only 10% of the time). Did not see a way to change the replay score setting though. Any insight would be appreciated... #1899 2 years ago For the lit starting inserts, It may be (if you didn't change it) that the test/utilities menu presets were changed to "easy" or"extra easy" Or "novelty" setting was turned on. And the replay can be changed in the test/standard adjustments and features menu. Your manual will tell you where everything and what everything does in the menu. Play around with it until you get the game setting that make it the most enjoyable. The thing that was odd is that the settings changed. Anyway, thanks for the head's up 'specially on the lit insert indirect setting. #1928 2 years ago Cliffy has a new protector for the shooter lane kickout Is this the ball eject cliffy or are there 2 cliffy's now for the shooter lane\ball eject? #1929 2 years ago Yup, found it. So just looks like it's one less hit per castle in "easy". Tempted to try it, but feel likes it's cheating! I'll let you know about the sound when I get a chance to get a game in this evening. There's also an easy default setting that gives you the first lit insert for all madness shots right from the start. Again that's default. #1930 2 years ago Looking for advice. Does it make sense to have a remote battery holder on MMR? I believe its a button battery setup, does anyone make one? #1932 2 years ago This one Ok. Already got that one installed. That protector has been out for awhile so when it was mentioned as "new" that threw me off. #1933 2 years ago Had my best first ball score yet, over 33,000,000 thru Royal Madness and 3 castles, 1 lit master insert. This machine is awesome when it is getting worked, multiballs and castle hurry ups and trolls, light shows, flashing inserts in Royal Madness and callouts and trying not to SDTM on castle gate shots. Lots going on at the same time. Awesome. #1936 2 years ago Is it possible to adjust flipper strength? I've found all factory strength presets work best except changing catapult default strength to +1 to avoid having the issue of not being able to clear 2 balls in the catapult simultaneously. #1942 2 years ago Question about dialing in... Played a MMR at one of the local meets today, and absolutely loved the way it played. When I shot at the gate, the ball would come back nicely to one of the flippers, but dangerously enough that without some control, it could SDTM. On my MMR, it's suicide to hit castles. Once you do, the ball either goes right down the middle, or leads to some scary bounces. Couple of differences I noticed in the machine today is that the flippers seemed set higher. I lined the bats up with the holes, but this machine looks like it was lined up with the rubbers on (so higher). Also, he had installed Superbands, and although both of our machines are at about 7 degrees, he had the front legs cranked up about 1/4 way, where mine are flat in the front. Just curious to know some tips on dialing in. Not sure what you are asking so I'll leave it to others to answer. What I've learned over all the games on my MMR. The risky shot is the gate, as you've found, the drawbridge almost never SDTMs. The gate SDTMs are not configurable, are you trying to make it easier? Maybe there's some assembly play in the castle. I would suggest trying a combo shot when you are on your last ball with no extra balls lined up. Most direct shots will be risky. Even the troll switches SDTM sometimes. I know this is not helpful but as I asked, are you trying to make the machine easier for some reason? 1 week later #1977 2 years ago Anyone...? Is it really necessary to have the mylar around the trolls if your game is HUO and you clean and wax regularly? Depends where you are cleaning and waxing...If you leave the mylar, you won't have to in those spots. #1980 2 years ago Had only Payne's gate to beat, and everything else completed. Closest I've gotten... Had I not totally shit the bed on the second Castle Multiball, I would have done it! Getting close!!! Hard to see in a still picture, but Payne insert is blinking? Drawbridge down? How many gate hits? How many Royal Madnesses does it take to get here? What's your score? I've only completed 4 castles and Royal Madness once in the same game, 2 lit blue master inserts.... #1984 2 years ago Yeah, the drawbridge was down, and I think I might have hit the gate once or twice... I really threw away that second Castle Multiball. All I had to do is be patient, and I would have taken the castle down. Oh well... Getting closer? My score was 108 million, which is pretty much exactly what my grand champion score is previously. What's your gc score? 52 million and change, just enough to get the gc. 2 extra balls during that game. I have the factory settings for one ball save, but I don't remember if I needed a ball save that game. #1985 2 years ago Got my MMR Limited Edition a few weeks ago, brand new. My first pinball machine! Just put down deposit for Star Wars LE also. Same lineup I will have. MMR Standard though. Where'd you find an MMR LE NIB at this late stage? #2001 2 years ago Question for everyone... (MMR and MM alike..) How often would you say you are able to get ALL of the Madness Multiballs going at once? (Catapult, Peasant, Damsel, Joust, and Troll, either started during the others, or at the beginning..) I'm curious how often it's an occurrence. Do you mean all madnesses lit before getting multiball? Or Royal Madness? I've never had all madnesses lit without at least one Merlin hole shot before it, if that's what you mean. I guess you can score higher if you do it that way, all lit before getting Multiball, but I think you are giving up some castle hit hurryups, which show up when each additional madness gets lit after Multiball already happened. I think that's the way it is. #2006 2 years ago I always go for the full stack, and usually end up one or two short (looking at you trolls and/or catapult)...but it's awesome when you do it and get that great loud callout at the start of it. What's the callout? (For people haven't completed the full stack before Multiball). Do you get any castle hurryups when all are stacked or just better jackpot multipliers? As I stated earlier, if only a partial stack before Multiball, the additional madnesses give a castle hurry-up shot of 1000000-. If full stack this might be missed. #2008 2 years ago As far as i remember (again, it's been a while), there are three different callouts to 'Madness Multiball'. Anything with more than one missing gets the normal one. With you start it and are only missing one, you get a more intense one, and then When you start it with all lit, you get a VERY intense callout. I see. The callout is still "Catapult..etc...MULTIBALL MADDDNESS!". Just more intensely voiced. #2010 2 years ago Ya stacking all 5 is awesome! But I am usually short the trolls and try to at least get them from merlin when I start the other 4. Then finish trolls and get a second ball save. I never knew that. Is there a ball save indicator somewhere (how many you have total\number left)? BTW, sometimes I get game stats when holding a ball on the leftflipper but not always. What triggers that? #2035 2 years ago Ohhhhh man! I just took a little break from work to play one quick game, and I just about did it! Beat the King's castle for the very first time, and had all modes mastered except for Trolls. Got trolls, with a 3 ball madness multiball and ended up getting them all stuck in catapult Fished one out, and it drained right away, and then scrambled to get control of the two remaining balls but Trolls ended. Then I only needed Trolls to start my third Royale Madness, and I bricked the shot and it went SDTM. Sooooooooooooo close! Did you increase the catapult strength to +1? That'll clear 2 balls but I've never had 3 in there. 4 weeks later #2101 2 years ago Thinking of buying one. Standard one owner. HUO. Color screen. Shaker. Cliffys.$7,400. Jump on it?

New that's $8400 -$8600 with stuff listed. Not sure how many cliffys though but estimate is close to what the new value was. Sounds like a good deal $300 less than NIB best price all stock.. 2 weeks later #2141 2 years ago Has anyone installed the Cliffy drain hole protector? My clearcoat looked solid but I lifted a chunk when installing the protector. It is a tight fit and I guess found a crack in the clearcoat or something, took up about a 1/4 inch chunk of clear. The damage is under the protector now so it won't get worse but any suggestions on how to repair it? Clear nail polish, does that work? Any suggestions welcome. 1 week later #2156 2 years ago I had a machine screw thrown onto the playfield during a game. It's a machine screw that has the built in star type washer. This is not a typical playfield type of screw. I think it came from the right Troll when it popped up. It is hard to see the backside of the troll and trap door assembly. I pried the trap door up and grabbed a hold of the troll head to pull it above the playfield, but it's tough to get a good luck at the trap door\head attachment. Does it make sense that a screw like this might have come loose from that location? Thanks! #2158 2 years ago Can you post a picture of the screw? The MMR manual does not show a seam/screw in the troll or carriage assemblies. Marc I'll get a picture later tonite. It's a machine screw that has a star lock washer, is an external tooth washer, maybe 3/8" long? #2159 2 years ago I am pretty sure it got loose near the right troll on popup. #2160 2 years ago Ok. I got a good look at the backside of the troll assemby from a Marco picture. I hope it is not copyrighted, but I marked it up with the indicated circle around the screws I think where this loose one came from on the right troll. Machine Screw Troll Assembly Backside (resized).jpg #2177 2 years ago Looks very plausible. Can you screw it back in from under the play field? I fixed it. There are 2 screws that go in the back of each troll head. In my case, the right troll top screw of those two had worked its way loose and was thrown out onto the playfield when the trolls came up. The screw could be finger tightened only, a wrench does not fit in the space there. Anyway, problem solved. #2180 2 years ago Well I suppose you'd know! That screw is a wood screw not a machine screw. so not on the troll assembly, but could be where the bracket screws to the playfield underside. #2186 2 years ago Has anyone had to file down the MMR side rails because of dangerous sharpness? Just wondering if taking off the side rails is the way to go or file them in place? I would be worried about metal residue in the cabinet near the electronics, cleanup seems to be a worry. I bought a train track sanding block that was recommended here to do the work with. How easy is it to remove the side rails, especially up at the back box end of the cabinet? #2187 2 years ago Too small. LTG : ) I understand but just wanted to explain that there's a difference between a machine screw (flat end) and a wood screw (pointed end), and that could be an indicator for its lost location. You may be right, that it is not even a screw applicable to MMR, but it is a wood screw. 1 week later #2208 2 years ago Anyone have spiderweb cracking patterns in the clear that's over the inserts on MMR? I have a standard manu'd in Dec 2016. With the insert lit, there's spiderweb cracks seen on all inserts in the castle gate shot path and merlin shot path and others as well. Especially the red arrow at the castle gate entrance. #2213 2 years ago Finished BFTK for the second time tonight... Never gets old! Can you describe your strategy? I had my best game this weekend, only 59+ million though. Completed Royal Madness, had Joust Champion and Catapault Ace and Master of Trolls master inserts lit, 4 castles and one ball left. I decided to concentrate on the castle with the last ball and drained. #2214 2 years ago Does anyone else have trouble with the catapult? Sometimes the ball makes it around just fine, other times it seems to hit something at the top by the switch or maybe it is the switch that it is hitting. Then the ball comes to almost a complete stop and trickles down to the left return lane. Fewer times the ball will hit the top as described before and roll down the left ramp. I have adjusted the wire form to the right and left many times as well as the power setting. It is so frustrating and ruins the flow of the game. Please help!!! There is some adjustment in the catapault bracket but not much. It needs to be non-constricting to the catapault slot, or a ball will go in there and get stuck. That's the only adjustment to the catapault (plus adding a Cliffy in there) I have made to solve that issue. #2216 2 years ago The ball always makes it out of the wireform but seems to hit something when it rounds the corner on the plastic ramp heading toward the switch Sorry I thought you were describing something else, meaning how the ball gets into the catapault on the playfield. I've never had a wireform issue, but I did take it off when I put the catapault cliffy in. The wireform to plastic ramp connection snaps in, non-adjustable I think. Anyway, don't think I am being helpful... #2225 2 years ago Just curious what everyone's settings are for flipper, catapult, popper, solenoid, shaker, trough, for MMR? I've tried to read old posts on this but not much extensive info: This is what I currently have and understand that this is an individual preference. My catapult has to be at #2 setting in order to clear two balls at on time. Thank you for your input. Flipper + 2 Popper + 1 Catapult + 2 Solenoid + 1 Shaker Light Trough Default All default but catapault +1 to clear 2 balls. No need for +2 there. #2226 2 years ago Anyone have spiderweb cracking patterns in the clear that's over the inserts on MMR? I have a standard manu'd in Dec 2016. With the insert lit, there's spiderweb cracks seen on all inserts in the castle gate shot path and merlin shot path and others as well. Especially the red arrow at the castle gate entrance. I got a great response on another thread, that this might be scratch patterns in the inserts from playfield sanding. I am 90% sure that that is what it is. 1 week later #2275 2 years ago The only castle disassembly you need to do is remove the nut on top of each castle tower and take the top (turret) off of them. Then pull up the whole castle front. The moat jump cliffy is tough to install, at least it was for me, and I skipped that one. Need to disassemble the flasher stack and white clips on the left side under the catapault ramp to do that one. Others here have gotten in in. #2277 2 years ago For the lip of the castle (small Multiball door) I have the Mantis protector installed. The hole inside of the castle where the ball drops into is taking a beating. What's the best way to install that? Instructions on Cliffy's site are useless. Also have a protector for the castle eject (on left) but not sure how to access it. Thanks That's the moat jump cliffy I described. It goes on top of the hole, the mantis goes on the bottom of it. I have not installed either, the only ones I still have not installed and feel I need to. The cliffy as I stated, requires disassembly of the castle as described and the flasher stack near the left castle tower under the catapault ramp. The underside mantis there needs the moat to be removed. I did not want to do the disassembly required. Others here have. The Mantis moat eject (you described it as the castle eject) is easy to install as you can remove the underside moat eject solenoid and have to drill a hole underside there to install that protector. Drill an undersized hole and then install the screw so the playfield will not crack. You might have to remove the leftmost 2 moat screws as well, I do not remember, but that Mantis one is fairly easy. This is the small eject hole protector described by mantis: http://www.mantisamusements.com/mminstall.htm Sorry cannot help of the moat jump Cliffy or Mantis lock hole underside protector as I said I did not install them but have them on hand. #2279 2 years ago Just had my best game yet on my MMR Standard. 68.5 million, 4 lit masters, 4 castles, completed Royal Madness, drained the last ball with a hurryup still lit and one shot from Defender of Damsels and one shot from castle multiball. Fantastic when it comes together. Had it lined up for getting to BFTK, just needed the 5th castle under castle multiball. #2285 2 years ago It isn't that hard to get to the underside of the moat jump hole in the castle. See below. Ya, the inner castle ball drop (aka the moat jump hole in the castle) takes a beating, maybe more than any other area. See below for install. I was able to find it not too hard to get to the underside of the inner castle ball drop (moat jump castle hole). That's how I installed the Mantis protector I used and recently posted about here. With some bending to fit through the hole, you may be able to install the cliffy protector that way as well. I had both protectors but after installing the Mantis, it looked adequately protected to me and the cliffy was redundant, so I didn't install the cliffy version as well. To get to the underside of the inner castle ball drop (aka the moat jump hole in the castle), prop up the playfied to get access to the underside. Remove the moat VUK (it's on the left side of the moat. Then remove the moat plastic; it's a lot of screws around the underside of the green plastic moat. After removing the screws, I was able to wiggle the green plastic moat out from all the surrounding stuff, and then swing it out of the way (without any further disassembly other than moving a harness a bit <I think I unscrewed a harness holder in the area> and potentially unplugging/disconnecting a cable or two). Reinstall was simply the reverse. Hope that helps. Yeah it does help thanks. I was reluctant to remove the whole moat for that mantis and I might just do it now, as it seems like an essential protector. The cliffy one, moat jump, I will try to fit it thru the hole from the bottom like you suggested, otherwise I'll skip it too. It takes a screw I forget where, hopefully not on top, that would negate pushing it up from underside. Thanks! #2289 2 years ago When I said moat jump in that last post, I mean the moat jump hole in the castle. Edited it. There is a mantis protector for both the moat jump hole in the castle (what I was talking about) and the unprotected wood in front of the swinging door after the moat jump. The moat VUK protector from mantis only needs the moat VUK itself removed. It can be installed around everything else. I installed the Mantis protector in the castle moat jump hole last night. I have about 750 games on my MMR and could already see some clear cracking and a tiny bit of edge wear on the playfield wood straight back from where the ball enters that castle ball lock entrance. I agree that this is an essential protector for MM/MMR. Lots of disassembly required though, on the underside where the mantis goes, VUK mech has to come off ( 3 wood screws), to get that off, loosen a small circuit board to get the 3rd VUK screw out, have to unscrew 4 wiring harness ties, disconnect 3 wire connectors to FL72, SW37 and SW41 and then remove the moat by taking out 7 screws and disconnecting the moat wire connector. Have to loosen one of the L brackets where one of the wiring harness ties goes in as it interferes with one of the Mantis screws, which there are 3 of in total. Took me all of the late Monday Night football game Broncos/Chargers, I figure 3.5 hours. The Cliffy moat jump protects the same area of wood that Mantis does and also protects the moat plastic itself, which the Mantis does not. I agree that that Cliffy moat jump might not be essential, top dis-assembly seems difficult to get it in anyway. The moat assembly if it gets cracked would cost about$85, but could be replaced.

#2291 2 years ago

Sounds like more work than I was hoping for haha! What size hole did you drill for the screws?
Also, you think that the Mantis protector will cover the moat jump hole enough that you don't need the Cliffy?
I have the full Mantis set, but was about to order the Cliffy's for shooter lane, catapult, and drawbridge.
Oh, and one last thing... Did you install the Mantis protector for Merlin?

Actually I just installed the cliffy moat jump as well. I probably have a rare machine now that has both the mantis and cliffy moat jump installed. If I was to do it over again, I'd pick the Cliffy only as you get the full wood and moat plastic protector with the extended protector feature. In the end, the dis-assembly for the Cliffy was probably a little less intense than the mantis, no mole connector dis-connects needed and minimal wood screws. The cliffy was not designed it seems, to be installed AFTER the mantis. Don't see this anywhere, but if you install both, install the cliffy between the playfield and the mantis, or like me, I did not do that, so you'll have to jury rig the one screw hole that won't line up correctly now. (2 existing screws are used for the cliffy top-side, the one on the short width of the lock hole does not line up since the mantis protector thickness was not considered if the mantis is already on).

Some Cliffy install advice: Unscrew the screws on top of each castle turret and remove the castle tops and front in whole. Loosen the catapault nut and take it off, the one above the flasher stack, on top of the black vertical pole, and remove 2 other nuts on the peasant ramp. Remove the red flasher plastic for one of those. Now remove the flasher plastic below the catapault on the left side of the castle, where there is a stack of plastic. First remove the flasher there, it disconnects, and remove it. Remove the 2 layers of plastic around that flasher by pinching the white shim pieces at the top with some needlenose pliers, be gentle. This lets you access the playfield nuts. Remove 2 nuts on the horizontal plastic that sits on top of the metal ball rail and work those up to remove the plastic. Now you have access to the 2 playfield wood screws that the cliffy uses. I took those out, lifted the ball rail a little and squeezed the cliffy underneath, also bent the side of the cliffy away from the wood, the cliffy side that has the underfield tab. Once in under the ball rail, I pushed that bent side back and the tab goes under the playfield between it and the moat. I used a pair of needlenose pliers that had a soft covering on the handles and wedged it in the lock hole to push the bent side of the cliffy back into proper shape. That's pretty much it, now re-assemble.

I did install the mantis and pinbits merlin protectors yes. I described that in an earlier post here, don't want to go over it again. The trick though is DO NOT deform the mantis protector, it will not go back to its original shape easily if at all and will not fit properly after that.

The other thing I noticed with that castle hole exposed, is that the mantis castle protector, cobblestone piece that protects the wood in from of the lock shot door, does not adequately protect the hole leading wood edge, that protector should be longer by at least an 8th of an inch. I have some wood damage there and the protector was there from day 1.

#2295 2 years ago

I dunno, your install instructions for the Cliffy sound way more complicated!
Any screws needed for the Cliffy, or just existing screws?

2 existing on top, one new underneath. Funny that the screw was not shipped with the Cliffy so maybe Clif thinks it is not needed, as most of his stuff is pressfit or uses existing screws. The mantis requires 3 new screws and is shipped with them.

#2302 2 years ago

So in case anyone cares: I have installed every available (that I know of) Cliffy, Mantis and Pinbits protector on my MMR. It cost about $250 including part shipping and took an estimated 35 hours of work. I installed: Cliffy: Drawbridge edge, Shooter lane ball eject, Catapault, Drain hole, Castle Moat Jump and Moat Kickback. Mantis: Merlin hole, the Castle cobblestone one, VUK ball eject and the Mantis version Castle Moat Jump. Pinbits: Merlin hole and the 10 piece plastic protector set. #2303 2 years ago So in case anyone cares: I have installed every available (that I know of) Cliffy, Mantis and Pinbits protector on my MMR. It cost about$250 including part shipping and took an estimated 35 hours of work. I installed:
Cliffy: Drawbridge edge, Shooter lane ball eject, Catapault, Drain hole, Castle Moat Jump and Moat Kickback.
Mantis: Merlin hole, the Castle cobblestone one, VUK ball eject and the Mantis version Castle Moat Jump.
Pinbits: Merlin hole and the 10 piece plastic protector set.

Some people suggested an option to have the factory install these, but I don't see how they could do it for less than $500. #2305 2 years ago Should have do video tutorials and make that YouTube money As for Merlin protector, was there any real benefit to using the Mantis and Pinbits together? I like that the Pinbits one has that little V protector on it, but from photos I'm worried that it doesn't sit flush and will cause shot rejections. Would love to hear your feedback on it. I have both the Mantis and Pinbits Merlins in. Both are essential. It is the only protector that I feel has some effect on gameplay. It takes some tweaking to get it right so there are no bounce outs or hangups requiring the ball search clearing. Make sure that the Pinbits does not get bent before or during assembly and that the Mantis is flush. The Merlin solenoid black plunger is very close to the Mantis protector make sure there is no interference there or it will take the machine multiple tries to kickout the ball. Just lightly bumping the mantis when I was waxing the playfield caused ball behavior changes, rejects and hangups. So it's very sensitive to set properly. Also, get familiar on how the Merlin solenoid assembly fits into a notch in the playfield. #2323 2 years ago Coin mechs. More pics later tonight. It shipped with coin mechs? 2 weeks later #2362 2 years ago Got my MMr today! I can now officially be in the club! Just curious- there wasn't really a "goodie bag" in it just an envelope with balls and the tilt bob (and maybe one small plastic). Is that normal for CGC? Yup. And backbox key is hanging inside the coin door. #2364 2 years ago Thanks! So far only minor issue appears to be the ball getting stick in moat once in awhile until ball search kicks it out. I'm guessing the switch just needs to be tweaked up. Plan to tackle that tonight. I hope yours comes soon. Have had mine for 8 months already, was a Stern factory built one. Great game. I set the catapult strength and flipper strength to +1, the rest are factory settings. You want to be able to clear 2 balls in the catapault and make that damsel tower shot. #2366 2 years ago Thanks! So far only minor issue appears to be the ball getting stick in moat once in awhile until ball search kicks it out. I'm guessing the switch just needs to be tweaked up. Plan to tackle that tonight. Guss: I hope yours comes soon. That'd be the popper setting. #2371 2 years ago Is it an opto or switch? I put it in switch test and saw that it only sees the ball sometimes which makes sense. So is it an opto sensing the ball or a pressure switch (I can't feel any switch with my fingers). Going to follow up on dzoomer's previous post as he had this issue too... I believe it's a solenoid like the merlin hole has. the ball gravity feeds into it as it is in the moat but sits in a pocket. Just roll a ball into it to see what happens. I was mentioning that there's a popper strength setting in the CGC menu. #2372 2 years ago I believe it's just a solenoid like the merlin hole has. the ball gravity feeds into it as it is in the moat but sits in a pocket. I've removed the whole bracket and moat, to put the mantis protector in and there's no rollover or opto. Just roll a ball into it to see what happens. I was mentioning that there's a popper strength setting in the CGC menu. #2382 2 years ago I have a busted troll head. I bought my MMR Standard in Jan 2017. Anyone know if this is a warranteed item? I am ordering it from Planetary Pinball. #2417 2 years ago I am looking for advice. I had a busted right troll head on my MMR Standard. (Actually the lower hole in the back of the troll head is easily compromised as that hole has a very small margin of plastic at the bottom edge of the hole that breaks easily.) Anyway, after I swapped the troll head, the troll comes up from the playfield with the left troll when trolls are first started, as it should. Then that right troll immediate acts like it got a third strike and goes back into the playfield without any actual ball hits to it. Any idea what needs adjusting? #2419 2 years ago Go into the switch diagnostics of the WMS menu....does it show that switch as closed?? I'll check. Just had a 50 million game, getting Troll Madness was so much easier with the issue. Anyway, I might have assembled it wrong. What is the switch supposed to look like? There's a black tab on the stick, and I put the upper screw through it, as it had a hole on it, I did not know if this was right or turn it over and set it with the bottom screw in the back of the Troll Head. #2420 2 years ago Can't see that tab well here but it does look like it's pinned with the top screw. I'll check the diagnostics. How does that switch work mechanically? MMR Troll (resized).JPG #2440 2 years ago I'd set aside a weekend afternoon, but you should be able to do it under 2 hours. Just take your time, follow the instructions on the respective websites, and you'll be fine. I have 6 Cliffys, 4 Mantis, the Pinbits Merlin hole protector and 10 Pinbits plastic protectors. It took about 35 hours of labor to get these all installed. There's a lot of disassembly and re-assembly. There are other posts describing experience with each protector. Do not drill a hole for the Mantis castle cobblestone design protector. Cliffys I have are moat jump, drawbridge edge, moat kickback, catapault, shooter ball eject and drain hole. The Cliffy moat jump and mantis lock hole are sort of redundant and I have both installed, This was the most labor intensive along with the Merlin hole combo of Pinbits and Mantis. The mantis protectors tend to require drilling holes to install and Cliffys use existing screws. The Pinbits plastic protectors are labor intensive as well. The Mantis VUK (Popper) area moat protector takes some disassembly and drilling a hole. DO NOT deform the mantis Merlin hole (under the playfield) protector, it will not bend back. The Merlin solenoid bracket sits in a notch, you have to get an understanding of how it is installed into that slot recess to get the Merlin protectors in properly. #2464 2 years ago Thanks gunstarhero, I am passing on the playfield protector for now, will do cliffys/mantis and a few spots of mylar as recommended. I get my machine Wednesday, it is my first NIB pin! Do I need to clean and wax before playing my first game? What are the recommended mylar spots? #2465 2 years ago Quick question, under "bookkeeping" my game shows 1809 total plays, but then shows 1530 1 player games, and about 100 game for 2-4 player games. That's about a 200 game difference. Trying to figure out exactly how many games have been played. It also shows game started as 3045. I would guess that somebody shut the game down during 200 games and re-started the machine because they did not like that they drained 2 balls quickly. Look at Total Games Started. #2474 2 years ago What's involved in installing a shaker motor? Any preference on a supplier? Thanks! I got it from Planetary Pinball. The only issue there is they have expensive shipping options only. You need to buy some thread locker, for the 4 hold-down screws, like Loctite Blue 242 I think I bought. #2478 2 years ago Anyone know the factory spec flipper rubber? I replaced it with. I think, a thicker rubber and it plays way different, cradles are very easy now and flipper tips save more balls from draining. #2484 2 years ago I just use standard rubbers from Pinball Life and they feel exactly the same. I stay away from Superbands and Titans because I'm not a fan of the way they play. Also, does anyone happen to know how many or for how late night CGC will be making MMRs? Is this the standard rubber you use? This is exactly what I put on my machine to replace the factory black flipper rubber and it feels very different as I stated, it is very easy to cradle now and the flipper tips prevent a lot of drains. Feels like cheating in comparison to the factory black rubber. #2486 2 years ago Different color of flipper rubbers do have different bounce characteristics. I've never tried yellow before, but I know that Black is least, then red, then Gottlieb's blue. Dunno where these Yellows fit in. Thanks! Yellow allows a very easy cradle as I stated earlier, and the tip bounces save drains. The black was not like this at all. #2490 2 years ago I've only used black on MMR, and it feels the same to me. The same as I am describing yellow is like you mean? Are you using the factory shipped black flipper rubber? #2499 2 years ago For anyone who is interested: I replace one of the green troll heads, the right side one to be specific. Here was the procedure that I used, after lessons learned doing it. 1) I bought a troll head for$20 including shipping. Note that the troll heads have a thin border of troll plastic on the bottom fringe below the lower hole in the head. This is a weak spot that breaks fairly easily and should have been more robust. Anyway:
2) I put an object between the bottom end of the troll assembly solenoid plunger and the bracket underneath the playfield. This lifted the troll head assembly above the playfield so I could work on it.
3) I put a post sleeve underneath the trap door top of the troll assembly to get some clearance to the troll head.
4) I bought at Home Depot and used a 5/16 ignition wrench ($2.49) to get the 2 screws off. I also experimented with using a cut post sleeve between the back of the troll head and the bracket behind it to create a bigger gap to access the screws. This eventually I found out, was not needed, but some might get some help from doing that. 5) Slide the old troll head off and install the new one. Note that there is a black little flange plate with 2 holes cut in it. The screws go thru this little flange plate, which rests in the groove outline at the back of the troll head. Set the screws in the holes by hand and tighten. Good luck, I hope this was helpful! #2540 2 years ago Quick question for owners. I'm approaching 2000 plays on my machine, and starting to notice reduced power in my flippers. A good number of shots to the ramps don't complete, and it wasn't previously doing this. From what I understand, flipper could rarely go bad or even lose strength. The EOS gap seems fine as well. Any suggestions? And is this normal/expected after this amount of use? One other thing I noticed was that slingshot kickers we're very sensitive, and when I took them out, they were all bent. Straitened them out, and now it's working better. Have you adjusted the flipper strength? 2000 games in I am sure you already know that it is adjustable. I have +1 on flipper strength. 2000 games already. Wow. How long have you had the machine? What's your top score? #2558 2 years ago Naive question of the day. Does MMR require any mods for avoiding battery leakage? #2578 2 years ago About to install the Cliffy for the hole on the inside of the castle. There are two screws that need removing to get the Cliffy in, but it's covered by a plastic with a flasher attached to it. What's the best way to get everything off so I can get the Cliffy in? I did this recently, actually have the mantis underside and cliffy topside. It is a lot of work. But essential. If you have 1600 plays on your game as you mentioned without it, you can see the cracked clear on the back of the hole and probably the underside edge of the playfield there getting rounded. Take pictures and label the nuts\washers etc as you disassemble. 1. Take off the castle turrets, one screw in each. 2. Lift the front of the castle out. 3. Take the red flasher cap off, the one between the catapult wireform and the castle hole. Also I took out the little flasher board by disconnecting it. I also took off the flasher on top of the peasant ramp\catapult ramp on that side and its board for some reason. 4. I unscrewed the lock nut\washer for the catapult ramp just above it as well. 5. Now you need to remove the plastic "stack" where the flasher was. Take a picture first of it. Pinch the bottom of the white spacers with needle nose pliers and push them up from the bottom. Take your time here. 6. Remove the lock nuts\washers on the plastic piece that sits on top of the steel orbit rail and remove the plastic. 7. For some reason I removed the lock nut\washer for the peasant ramp on the other side of the castle, this may or may not be needed. 8. If I remember properly, this should give you direct access to the 2 existing screws that are on the playfield that keep that steel orbit rail locked down. Loosen these and slip the Cliffy 2 slots under. Hopefully you have the latter day Cliffy here. My Cliffy has sort of a bent portion that extends into the moat, not straight and down, that's the old design. The old designed Cliffy also has 2 holes for the existing screw locations and not a slot. If you have the wrong part you might want to get the newest design one. At this point, there is a tab on the Cliffy that you push under the playfield between the moat plastic and the playfield. I used a pair of soft grip needle nose pliers and wedged those width-wise in the hole from the top to properly "form" the arm of the cliffy to the hole wall, to get it tight there. Reason for that is that it is a tight fit underneath the playfield to drill the cliffy tab hole you need there. 9. Fasten the existing 2 screws into the Cliffy, topside. 10. Lift up the playfield and drill the hole for the underside tab of the cliffy. Use an undersized drill bit and do NOT drill through the playfield entirely watch the drill depth here, too deep and you drill thru to the playfield and that is "an in-play" location, ball would hit any issue there. Be careful. You only need 3/8" depth. My cliffy was shipped without a screw so I contacted cliff. He said to buy a 6-32 round head screw. This is a 3/8" long screw. I found it at Home Depot. 11. Reassemble. NOTE: If you install the mantis protector as well underneath the playfield for this hole, put the mantis on first. The cliffy will require some "opening" up of the screw slot to fit now as the cliffy was not designed for overlay to the mantis one. This is the screw slot nearest the back board of the machine.I do not think the mantis one offers anything over the cliffy and the cliffy is a better moat plastic protector. However, be forewarned if you install them both, I used a drill bit to drill out, or spot open, up the slot on one side to fit properly in that case, tandemed with mantis. #2580 2 years ago My protector has two holes at the to for screws, and the part that extends into the moat s slightly bent. Is there a better version of this? Also, can I install without drilling the hole at the bottom. Won't the two top screws hold it in place? Are they slots or tabs with holes in the cliffy? You need the slotted one. The hole underneath IMHO is required. The arm of the cliffy will bend back and impede the ball as it falls into the hole, you will cut balls and damage the protector and nicks to the playfield from a nicked ball. #2581 2 years ago Are they slots or tabs with holes in the cliffy? You need the slotted one, do not know of a one with holes and the moat protection part of it that bends away from the back of the hole. That's the one you want you can look on the web for pictures.. The hole underneath IMHO is required. The arm of the cliffy will bend back and impede the ball as it falls into the hole, you will cut balls and damage the protector and nicks to the playfield from a nicked ball. #2586 2 years ago Anybody rattle proof their MMR glass for vibration from the shaker? Tape them? #2617 2 years ago Here is the protector I have. You might want to send an email to Cliff. The protector you pictured is not the one I have, mine has tab and slots on the topside and like that one a tab and hole underneath. The moat plastic protector, the metal feature that protrudes down, is straight down on yours, mine has a bend line about halfway down and sticks out into the hole to deflect and guide the ball better so the moat plastic is not impacted. So, yours is definitely different and might be old stock design. Contact Cliff. #2619 2 years ago Got my MMr working again and gave it some test plays. Got every extra ball I know of (video mode, castle super jackpot, etc) I got to bftk on Ball one. Then I hit all the shots. Trolls come up. Ball gets hung up on the right troll while my timer is ticking!! Gave it a nudge (I had to do this earlier in the game on that stupid right troll) and...Tilt. Yep. Do over. My son walks up and says, “did you have any troll bombs?” Yeah. Like three. Is this at home? How many home MMRs have the tilt enabled? #2624 2 years ago Its at home. I have tilt on all my machines (usually set at the most generous setting). I feel like nudging is part of the game, but so is knowing where the limit is. I have no tilt bob installed and do not nudge the machine whatsoever. Just the way I like to play. Actually when there are streams with "pros" I see that some of those guys just push the machine around. Then there are others with real skill like Elwin and Bowen. 2 weeks later #2639 2 years ago This came up in my Youtube feed a few days ago. How the hell is this guy hitting a score like this!?!? I put up 411M and thought I was the man for a minute, but this guy is on some next level shit! » YouTube video I watched some of it, that many castle gate shots without a single SDTM and always returning to a flipper makes this suspect. #2647 2 years ago I consider myself a decent player and my best score is only about 150 million. I haven't even gotten one video mode in 5 months! To be honest, I haven't really played it all that much, but I suspect that many of those scoring consistently in the billions don't have the machine set at 6.5 degrees or more and have probably adjusted some of the settings to make the game easier (5 balls a game, extra balls easier to get, etc.). Especially since on the video mentioned the guy had 1.5 billion and previous high score was 315 million. Why would he be cognizant enough to record himself in the first place to greatly beat any previous score on the machine? Highly suspect, but doesn't matter much anyway, there's a lot of configuration differences from machine to machine and MM to MMR for that matter to get hung up on relative scoring.. #2649 2 years ago What exactly are the 3 standup targets on the right side of MMR for? #2652 2 years ago What do you have set for a completed Royal Madness award, an extra ball or the 15 million points? I have factory set extra ball but might change the configuration to award the points. #2655 2 years ago Extra ball all the way. I find it pretty tough to complete Royale Madness, so knowing an extra ball is there makes me focus more and makes it more intense. I am trying to find ways to finally crack 100 million, thought that getting 15 million on completing RM might help. I might play a few games with the 15 mil award to see what happens..Got to the King of Payne castle last night and fell short of destroying it, have not gotten castle crusher yet. I think castle crusher (castle #6) is worth 20 million? #2658 2 years ago Question...... does anyone know if drawbridge or gate hits make the shaker go off on MMR. Just want to be sure My shaker goes off with castle explosions and when the trolls initially come up on Trolls Start. No other hits to the castle though. #2664 2 years ago YESSSS! Same for me. The upgraded speakers and sub were causing a super-annoying buzzing sound on the mid-right side of my cabinet. It sounded like bad electrical noise. Installed tape, and it's GONE... Pinball Pro is out of stock on the tape. Any insight on where to get it? #2687 1 year ago I'm finally going to order an MMr in the next month or two, and want to pick up the right accessories. Mantis & Cliffy protectors, new speakers and a sub (maybe the pinnovator package?), probably a pinstadium kit. Any other must-haves? One thing I'd like but haven't found is a headphone kit, is there one that works on MMr? DMD Color chip and shaker. +1 on the Pinbits plastic protectors.. #2697 1 year ago The trolls on light are still too strong for me, but I like the catapult and castle on default. Agree about the trolls, that's the only one that shakes the glass, but I have some anti rattle tape on order.. #2720 1 year ago I tried the AR-1 anti-rattle tape from PP, seems to make zero difference before and after. Cannot recommend it, it costs a lot, when my trolls come up, glass rattles as much as before. #2724 1 year ago Wow. It totally fixed mine. Maybe turn your shaker down. It's on low/minimum already, the shaker strength. #2726 1 year ago You can also try rotating the weights to make the shaker less strong if it’s bothering you. It's only when the trolls come up, the catapault and castle explosions are fine. #2734 1 year ago You guys crack me up... the shaker is not that strong... Ever play a Road Show? THAT's a strong shaker Well it's about a construction site so that makes sense.... #2739 1 year ago Thanks for posting the pics. Did you get the tape from Pinbits? This is where I got it recently. #2748 1 year ago I had to do it twice. Then it worked. Meaning two layers of tape? #2764 1 year ago So I’m going to get a Mmr soon and I am wondering what people’s thoughts on which protectors to use where. Cliffy or mantis or a combo. What is the best setup. Anything I need to do out of the box? Shaker and color will be added soon. I’m also going to get the plastic protectors. Thx Read the prior posts in this thread there's good discussion already on this. #2765 1 year ago I wish Mantis would redo this one without the screw hole. Mantis also needs to redo that castle protector by making the cobblestone part of it longer by at least 1/8" to protect the hole edge just inside the lock. That edge is impacted and damaged even with the protector installed. #2777 1 year ago MM has well known PF areas that get big time wear and MMR will be no different. Lots of pictures showing the blown out areas, many which also happen to be hidden from direct view such as the moat eject and castle drain holes, etc. Some of the protector install pictures from suppliers show how much wear can happen in those areas. The merlin hole is another well known wear area. That's why the all the MM protectors have been produced, and it's great that MMR can use them. To each their own, but after seeing how much wear can happen to MM machines without protection I'd prefer to do the investment. After all, wear and tear (and especially pf wear and tear) means lower resale. Which "moat eject" area are you referring to? Just curious, as Cliffy has a moat kickback only, and Mantis has the VUK/popper one. Do you mean mylar at the moat ejects? #2810 1 year ago I had an issue where balls would go inside the castle and sometimes not blow it up. I bent the moat enter switch wire enough that it fixed it, but then, ball locks would get triggered just from a ball dropping from the playfield into the moat. CGC sent me a new switch and wire, and everything works fine now. How long have you had the game to get parts from CGC? Meaning is it still under warranty? I am seeing some of this on my game... 2 weeks later #2887 1 year ago MMR doesn't have ROMs. And PPS/CGC can't add swear words into Williams code. LTG : ) Sounds like a job for Pinball Browser.. 3 weeks later #2995 1 year ago Anyone know the specs on the post stud that secures the damsel ramp to the sling plastic on that side? The post stud is threaded on both ends and appears to be 1 3/8 6/32, threads into the playfield thru a red plastic post. It broke as I was wrenching the 6/32 nylock nut to secure the ramp. Can this be had at a hardware store or need to get it thru a pinball supplier? Thanks! #2997 1 year ago You can get it from McMasterCarr much cheaper Is the spec correct? #2999 1 year ago I believe that it is Williams P/N 02-4425-1 which is 8-32 x 2 3/8 with a 5/16 drive nut. That's the post stud for the damsel ramp at the right side sling plastic. #3005 1 year ago Does anyone know if you're awarded an extra ball starting BFTK with RM lit? Or does RM need to be started when you hit the BFTK castle shot? I thought that you could configure an extra ball for completing Royal Madness or an extra something million points. Not sure about BFTK, sorry have not got there yet. 1 month later #3160 1 year ago Hi guys was thinking about pulling the trigger and buying a new MMr Standard. I'm reading a lot of people complaining about the clear coat flaking away is this a problem from the earlier runs or are they still occurring today. If this was a Stern issue people would be demanding that there playfields be changed, has anyone confronted CGC about this problem and if so what was their response? Buy one. Bullet proof it with protectors, especially Cliffy drain hole and shooter lane and castle hole, and mantis castle protector. Combo mantis and pinbits merlin protectors. Catapault Cliffy. No pf protector needed. #3188 1 year ago Do brand new MMR come with a goodie bag stapled inside? Mine didn't . It comes with a manual. 1 week later #3213 1 year ago Just joined the club! I cannot wait We had an MMr at work which I played daily and never thought I would own. Ownership change at the company resulted in the pins going with the owner I realized after a few months I really really miss this pin and wanted it in my collection. Have cliffy and mantis protectors incoming; should get here around the time of MMr delivery. I am pretty comfortable working on MMr as I maintained the one at work. Had very few issues so I am hoping mine is just as solid. So one question I have is the merlin hole protectors. Looks like pinbits is sold out atm. Difficulty in installation seems to be a common theme in posts I have read. Mantis says theirs is made thin so you can bend as needed for installation but I saw a post suggesting not doing this. Is this just a tough spot to protect properly? The merlin protector stuff has been covered extensively in prior posts here. The summary tip is do NOT bend the mantis merlin protector whatsoever, it will not regain its shape. The merlin solenoid\popper bracket sits in a recess corner notched in the playfield wood, make sure to fit this properly before drilling the hole for the mantis protector. The Pinbits one should go on first so maybe wait to get it before installing the mantis. #3220 1 year ago Just curious but is there a need for cabinet leg protectors such as these on MMr? https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1403 I did not install any on my AFMr because there were metal plates/brackets where the legs were bolted on to protect the cabinet. Seems newer pins are doing this standard. Just thought I would see if anyone else felt the extra protection was warranted. MMR was shipped with them already installed. #3223 1 year ago I'm planning on getting an mmr pretty soon. Should i try and find a gently used one or just buy one nib? NIB. You can look for the shaker and DMD color chip on eBay and wait until there is an ebay 10, 15 or 20% on everything discount, that'll save you$100.

1 week later
#3259 1 year ago

Hey guys I'm totally new to MMR never really played the game in the past...
Anyways from my understanding (I could be wrong) when the gate opens - is it just 1 shot to make the castle collapse?
Sometimes I'm having to shoot the ball through the gate into the castle around 3 times to cause the castle to collapse.
I've also noticed at times when I shoot through the left wall it doesn't say ball 1 locked etc..
Do you have to activate ball lock first for it to take affect?
Just unboxed mine yesterday. They've done such an amazing job!

For each castle n, it is n times to open the drawbridge and n+ 1 to open the gate. First castle is 1 hit opens the drawbridge, 2 more open the gate, and the next ball in explodes the castle. Sometimes a lock ball shot (left wall as you say) will count as a castle hit, and if you've already achieved the castle multiball, it takes 2 lock shots to light an award lock. Sometimes a lock shot will not register if you have a switch issue.

#3275 1 year ago

Hello,
I'm seeing a strange issue with my MMr lately. I have it set so it awards an extra ball instead of a replay. I have the score set to 26,000,000 to award the extra ball. However, sometimes it gets reset to 46,000,000 without me doing anything to the machine. This happens about once every 2 weeks at seemingly random times. Then, when I go to change the score back, it still shows up that the target score is 26,000,000 in the settings menu, yet the game still requires you to get 46,000,000 before it awards an extra ball. The way I've fixed this is changing the score to 27,000,000 and then changing it back to 26,000,000. Does anybody know what could cause this to happen? Is this some sort of software bug?
Thanks!

How do you set an extra ball instead of replay score? Does the knocker still go off and knighted video shown still?

#3315 1 year ago

Where waould one buy the shooter lane (right side not ball eject) protector for this game? Sorry if this was answered somewhere else previously..

#3318 1 year ago

I saw that too, I'll email Cliff. Thanks Llyod.

#3331 1 year ago

Got the madness champ high score today.
First good game I've had on my MMr since Oct. getting diognosed with MS.
Almost feel kinda normal. And back to enjoying pinball.
Absolutely love my MMr

Grand Champion? Meaning over 52,000,000? Congrats..

#3367 1 year ago

Trying to make the game easier for guests and my wife to play, so wanted to get some suggestions.
I tried putting it to 5 ball, but the game rules change a bit. Castle MB now requires two hits on each to start, and the EB after the second castle is gone.
Is there any way to put it back to 3 ball, and maybe have an EB handed out in increments of 30 million? So an extra ball at 30M, 60M, 90M, etc...?

If you have guests getting to 30 million with a 3 ball game, do they really need help from the normal setup?

#3376 1 year ago

No. Madness champion. Starting every multiball madness at once. And got 38,000,000 just for multiball mode. Got to put my initials in for madness champ only. Still haven't beat my old grand champ score of
$198,000,000 I never knew that. Is that normal, if you get Royal Madness before you ever got am individual madness, the scores are multiplied enough to get 38,000,000? Did you have to complete Royal Madness to get that score? #3379 1 year ago You can't get Royal Madness until you have done one madness....anywhere from 1 to 5 of the madnesses lit .... or should that be madi..... Completing Royal Madness should get you an extra ball..... The more madnesses you have lit when you start multiball, it increases the level of the jackpots.... With all five lit, the super jackpot is 1M..... A double Super jackpot (the lock shot) would be worth 2M.... You can really pile on the points during a five light madness..... My record is 41,000,000 So does it go from all 5 lit madness multiball straight into royal madness when you drain them all or do you have to then hit the merlin hole again to get the Royal Madness one ball? Thanks in advance. #3383 1 year ago If you start (and complete) multiball madness with less than 5 lit, then light 1 or more madness lights, is it possible to start multiball madness again? I haven’t figured out a way to do it yet, but maybe I’m just suck. I've only seen the hurry up castle hit award given in that case. 1 week later #3399 1 year ago Up by the castle you can loosen and adjust the catapult wireform left or right, and in CGC menu make the catapult stronger or weaker. I'd play with that stuff. Hangs open a bit. Adjust the bracket/gate thing that diverts it to aim things better. LTG : ) I have +1 on the catapult solenoid setting in order to clear 2 balls that got in there simultaneously during multiball. 1 week later #3437 1 year ago I think thats whats going on, how do I fix it? Anti rattle tape. Pinball Wizard has it and Pinball Pro has a different one. I used the Pinball Wizard one and after initially thinking it did not help I think it does make a definite difference.$25 with shipping.

#3455 1 year ago

I just received my MMR near the beginning of May and I'm loving the gameplay so far! Quick question: My game will tell me that I am Joust Champion but then when the game ends I am not asked to enter my initials. I see the default joust champion score is @ 5. Is this a bug related to MM in general or just MMR?

I was able to enter Troll Champion initials without issue.

1 week later
#3465 1 year ago

Anyone know all of the instances during gameplay on MM/MMR that would reward an extra ball? Just curious. I am set up for a free game at 28 million not an extra ball. I had 2 extra balls awarded during my highest grand champlion score today, awarded before the first ball even drained. One extra ball after completing 2 castles and merlin's magic afterward. Not sure where the other came from. My score was 71, 151, 720, 4 castles down and got to Royal Madness but not completing Royal Madness. 2 lit blue "master" inserts, Catapult Ace and Master of Trolls. Based on the conversation above the 2nd extra ball might have been awarded by completing Jackpots during Damsel Madness multiball. I also noticed that I got trolls up during Damsel Madness multiball and completing the Trolls rolled straight into Troll Madness. I had never seen that before, I thought other uncompleted madnesses were locked out during madness multiball. This extended the multiball (more balls) and allowed me to hammer jackpots, I guess for the extra ball.