The only MM that will be the real "LE" is the original - the count of original MMs will never increase!

My guess is that MMR used prices will level off slightly below the price for an original in great condition (and of course well below the price for a new MMR). MMR will be readily available for a long time, if you can get a NIB for 8K or less used ones will drop to somewhere in the range of 6-7K fast. I'm not a MMR hater, actually like the idea - but in the end MMR is a consumer product and MM is collector favorite. A original MM that has survived 20 years in very good condition holds more value than a reproduction you just buy NIB. Especially since the electronics are proven and repairable for anyone. Most of my new electronic devices break down after 2-6 years while all the old stuff (and i have lots) just keeps on running for decades.

That for me was one of the biggest reasons to choose an original , bulletproof and I know how to fix it when something goes bad, with the new machines like WOZ I was at a loss completely , meaning they cant be played untill new electronic parts arrive

If the above statement is true then MM will continue to drop in value. Not everyone is a collector. Some folks just like playing pinball.

So effectively there will be less demand for MM. Less demand = less value. MM value was and is high because it it a great game one of the best ever made.

I agree with this. The question is how much more and what constitutes an original? If there is a repro playfield it should be worth less than one that has an original playfield? If I was buying an original for an investment I certainly would deduct points for that.

I don't believe it will drop below MMR. I rather expect the market to fragment. Collectors will hang onto their original MMs keeping the price for those high(er) while MMRs flooding the market will be the ones being traded more often by the players - at lower price due to the high supply.
But I'm wrong pretty often...
We will see, it's a first - anything can happen.

Good that you are bringing this up! It always strikes me when people try to sell their AFMs, MMs or MBs with repro playfields and new decals for prices that perfect originals (with original decals and playfield) would command. I personally heavily deduct points for that and I actually expect that with MMR the re-decaled MMs with repro-PFs will take the biggest price drop of all versions.
Personally, before investing in a MM with new decals & new PF i would probaly rather buy a MMR.

Something that will be interesting when these start shipping out to customers is how newer collectors react and deal with the fact that there will not be a lot of compatible mods to put on the new game for a while. In my local collector circles I have noticed there is a distinct line in the sand between how "old school" folks like their games (I'm in this group), versus the newer, younger collectors. For me, my games are still running incandescent lights, and the vast majority of my mods (which are pretty few) tend to just be stuff that was supposed to be on the game originally but was cost reduced by WMS. The newer, Pinside era guys all have their games decked out with LEDs of their choice, color DMD, under cabinet flashers, so many add-on toys on the playfield you can barely follow the ball, etc.

There are a ton of mods in the market for MM but if it lights up or plugs in it isn't going to work on MMr until an updated version is put out. So get ready for the initial wave of disappointment for the folks that have already bought these things and they won't work. Next will be the impatience with waiting for the color LCD images, something available already for MM at a cost. Then folks will decide that whatever LED that came with the game aren't the kind of LED that *they* would have picked, and it's too difficult to unsolder and re-solder 3 tiny surface mount bulbs per insert to change them. For the old school guys that buy it none of this will be a big issue, but I can't imagine how the new guys in the hobby are going to deal with all of this non-modify-ability or at least delays in waiting for the bling to be available. I predict many will change hands after delivery, but in fairness that seems to be the case with every new pinball machine that hits the market.

I'm one of these "Pinside-era" newbies that realizes this...and I'm totally fine with it. What else exactly would there be to add? It already has most of the things that are an obvious mod: a shaker, LED's, and clearcoat. Besides sideboard decals and maybe a tasteful toy (maybe) I can't see people being that disappointed.

my 2 cents.

_{Post edited by IndianaPwns: spelling}

I said before I agree originals will likely always retain a premium over a remake. How much remains to be seen.

Like you I may be wrong but folks buying MMR are likely buying them because they wanted to own the game for a long time. So I don't see them actively being sold or traded until they get tired of playing it or a better game comes along.

So ultimately if you are a player and not a collector why pay a premium for an original. By the same logic if you are a collector and want an original wait for the hoarders to realize they can no longer get what they once could. Note I said hoarders not collectors!!

unlike the unicorn, an original mm that you can own now actually exists! I ALMOST wish i hadn't sold mine now... No, i don't.

Do yourself a huge favor and say "no" to $8K pinball machines. They get old and boring just like all the rest. Trust me.

Light up troll eyes, light up dragon. Any of the interactive type of toppers (presumably the ones that aren't interactive would work fine?). There seem to be a ton of things out there, I suspect from the comments that some folks claim they already have a box of things bought and waiting to go on there will be some disappointments. Hopefully most folks did not go this route.

original

Viper why won't those mods work on MMr?

where do you plan to plug them in at? same for the light up castle eyes.

They are available to get now. I put my money down about 2 weeks ago on one, and chose my trim color.

The MMr LE I signed up for is an expensive machine and no doubt not worth as much to collectors as the original, but to me it's probably worth the price to get one new now.

If I lived in some other part of the country besides Cali, the ability to get a HUO MMr LE later would probably have been my plan. But it's not easy to find machines local as other places and shipping is a killer. I do have to ship this one, but NIB shipping is a lot less than shipping later via NAVL.

The price for a nice used MM in NorCal is outrageous, if you could find one, so for me (after a lot of thought) I plunked down my $1k and am now in the queue.

I've liked the game and this was a chance to get a new one so I took it. Only time will tell if I think I made the right decision in say, 3 years.

The debate about price/value/longevity of an MMr or MMr LE vs a MM is not that pertinent to me.

I'm glad that new machines are being made and that I have the ways and means to participate in the hobby. Who knows what a run of 1000 MMr LE's or the run of one or two of standard MMr's will do to the market.

There also won't be an unlimited run of standard MMr's made, nothing is truly unlimited. Parts are bought in lots, not sure what the first run lot of standard MMr's is going to be, but I would expect perhaps around 1000.

Robert

I see the point you are trying to make there, however that would make every pinball machine that has ever been made that is out of production an LE. Point I was making is that MMRLE may not even sell 1000 units, so there may end up being very few or no standard units at all.

From the very few I have bought I can say *as is* they won't work. Many mods they give you alligator clips and you are instructed to connect to the tabs of a 6.3 volt G.I. bulb to power the mod. There is no 6.3 volt circuits on these new games, all the lights are LED and a lower voltage. The mods can be changed to adapt to the different voltages for sure, but a new connection method would also have to be worked out. There isn't any way to connect directly to a board-mounted LED light.

Someone can certainly figure it out but from the pics I've seen the new system seems to be a lot more closed than the old, with less places to piggyback stuff off of. Rick confirmed a long time ago that many of the current mods would not work with the new system without some redesign.

Ouch!!!

Ya know what I learned from all this? "Nobody knows nothin'!"

viper001 just dropped a bomb regarding mods!!! now whatcha gonna do with all those mods?

Original MMs going back up in price!!!!

what bomb, this was known for a long time.

I didn't know

In the end it's only pinball. Whether you got an original MM or a new MMr and you like playing the pin, you all win.

and Bingo was his name-o

Yep!!!

That does not mean its a surprise, it was talked about before, you missed it. But even looking at it logically they wont work as designed.

Who the F cares if a few clip on silly mods work for the game? New mods will come out if there is a market for them. Having mods, unless they add features (think the EL wire mod for the Tron PRO) add 0 value to games.

Right. Unless there's some insurmountable technical hurdle, the popular mods for MM will all be remade/modified for MMr. Obviously. Bummer if someone actually stockpiled old mods in advance, but otherwise this seems like a lot of hand-wringing over nothing.

Mods for MMr are going into production… Monday of course.

Monday,Monday... can't trust that day. .. c'mon , you all sung it in your head. Lol

Chicago Gaming will be sending the parts to Stern and should be up on the PPS website by Tuesday.

Gary Stern said at the Chicago Expo that Stern will get into the mod market with Toppers etc. I wouldn't worry about lack of mods being available.

Having sold my MM for space reasons, I would be happy to repurchase it today. I prefer the original MM, but would consider MMR to be an equal replacement. Either would be fine .... who was offering the free MMR?

If you stupidly bought mods for MMR thats your own fault. From the beginning it was stated that the entire platform would be new. This has been known forever, this isnt groundbreaking news...

Here is an entire thread about this a YEAR ago.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-modsmodsmods

and another one 5 months ago
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-the-current-mods-work-on-the-new-mmr

Maybe everyone should get back to bitching about coin mechs or whatever other nonsense is needed to stir the pot.

You sound like a really pleasant person

I bet his closet is full of MM mods…

Normally I am extremely pleasant...I am just sick of all of the bitching on the site. Every day there is a new "revelation" that just stirs the pot. I have been in on MMR for over a year and dont have a problem calling out PPS when they drop the ball, but talking about if an aftermarket mod will devalue a game is just dumb. Acting surprised when the information has been out for at least a year is nonsense.

We get it!

So I'm guessing you weren't on the WOZ order list?

I owned MM 3 times in the past so I think I know the game a little bit.

Played MMR yesterday and it really plays like the original. Hell even the right flipper felt weak at some points LOL

So people who preordered one will be happy if they expect it to be like MM. If they expect something extra nah...

It would be curious if Gary Stern started selling mods for MM or MMr given that neither is a Stern machine. But I suppose anything is possible?

if he pays the license fees sure.

OP, what did you decide? Are you still in on MMr or have you come to your senses?

A real nice original is available right now...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-medieval-madness-7

MMR for sure played it at Logan's a few times, it looks better the colors are brighter and more vibrant than the 20yr old routed beaters, the light show was amazing and it played a lot faster and flippers were very snappy and you can adjust the flipper strength and bumpers which is great, and if you put an original next to a new MMR ,97 out of 100 would pick the MMR and I think we all know the 3 people on here that wouldn't!

OP, don't pay attention to the above 'MMr plant'. Notice he just made a new account today to pump up an inferior product. We don't know who he is but we're pretty sure we know who he's working for!

Don't get caught up in the MMr desperation...

Buy and original, play it today. Sure beats all these delays and excuses. Plus you won't have to worry about the $2000 immediate hit you'll take.

Well the question wasn't MMr or 20 year old routed beater. The Original is 18 years old, but many out there (mine included) have been restored and are better than new.
By the way your 97 out of 100 sounds like bullshit! 97 out of 100 would prefer to actually have their game now, not pay for it and wait more than a year with countless delays and excuses.
So let's recap....
97/100= bullshit
MMr platform is yet to prove itself (let's talk after these games have been on route for 5+ years)
Original has optional color DMD with no screen tearing
My Playfield art is actually centered
My game actually exsists and is in my game room
The original comes with coin mechs
image-919.jpgimage-892.jpg

Are you familiar with the word "shill"?

Are you familiar with the word "Moron"

image.jpg

Yes, it's what we call you.

Who's we you and your mom?LOL