(Topic ID: 246116)

MMr LE price discussion

By rai

2 years ago


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  • 50 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by QuietEarp
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

I’m curious what the thinking about MMR LE with color chip. What’s the going rate? Is the LE significantly more than a MM standard with color chip?

MM LE sold for *more* than AFM or MB LE because owners had to buy the color upgrade. But did not include a topper or large LCD like the later 2 games. Plus the standard edition of MM is not much different than the LE (just color metal and shaker).

Additionally if MMr is ever made with a large display won’t this lower prices of small screen MM remake (unless the large screen MM is significantly more expensive than $8k).

I wonder how much room above $8K is there for CGC to sell a large screen MMr. If large screen will even happen.

#2 2 years ago

I think the people that buy MMr :whistle:dont buy it for the big display. That said not saying it wouldnt be nice to have one. Ill bet it would be offered only as an upgrade.

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Ill bet it would be offered only as an upgrade.

You think CGC will sell standard MMr small display then sell large display ($400 estimate) then sell color chip ($400) meaning $800 on top of a standard edition?

Quoted from whthrs166:

I think the people that buy MMr :whistle:dont buy it for the big display.

I think you’re underestimating the large display, it’s a world of difference from the small display.

I’d bet most people will upgrade if it’s not too expensive.

#4 2 years ago

A display is just a display. IMHO super large displays are overrated. The display really entertains onlookers more than the player. Sure I like color displays, but I really like them during video modes. If there really isnt a video mode or there is only one that rarely is seen in an average game such as MM, then a super large display is not as important and certainly for the prices offered.

#5 2 years ago

I used to think the large displays were overrated as well, until I picked up an AFMR. It's quite impressive and made me wish my MMR had a larger display. The MMR standards seem to be selling fine without the larger displays, so who knows if and when we'll ever see a large display option.

#6 2 years ago

Note the people who say large display is over rated don’t have one.

I have AFM LE and of course JJP pins. All my other pins look super small and let down. The large display on AFM is almost 2x the surface area of a standard display.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Note the people who say large display is over rated don’t have one.
I have AFM LE and of course JJP pins. All my other pins look super small and let down. The large display on AFM is almost 2x the surface area of a standard display.

I would disagree. I never cared about color displays, but I was enamored by the big color screen on MBrLE and got one. It's wow factor is great, but at the end of the day as the wow factor wears off, as a player you rarely look at it for normal gameplay. I'd be fine with just normal old scoring displays really if it saved on cost.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I’m curious what the thinking about MMR LE with color chip. What’s the going rate? Is the LE significantly more than a MM standard with color chip?
MM LE sold for *more* than AFM or MB LE because owners had to buy the color upgrade. But did not include a topper or large LCD like the later 2 games. Plus the standard edition of MM is not much different than the LE (just color metal and shaker).
Additionally if MMr is ever made with a large display won’t this lower prices of small screen MM remake (unless the large screen MM is significantly more expensive than $8k).
I wonder how much room above $8K is there for CGC to sell a large screen MMr. If large screen will even happen.

As a CG distributor I can answer 'some' of your questions...
MMR color chips are 400 plus shipping FYI
To the best of my knowledge MMR will not be made with a larger display out of respect for original owners. Not saying there won't 'be' a larger display available, but I'll leave that to CG to discuss / announce if that will happen when they are ready.
That's what I know. Again I'm not CG so you'll need to wait for them to do their thing on their timetable, just passing along some feelings on things.
MMRs will be back on the line in summer hopefully - We are taking pre-orders if anyone is interested email me at [email protected]

Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

the people who say large display is over rated don’t have one.

Thats a bold statement and incorrect. I had an AFMrLE liked the big display but I didnt buy the game because of the display. I ended up trading for a really nice original MB.

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

I used to think the large displays were overrated as well, until I picked up an AFMR. It's quite impressive and made me wish my MMR had a larger display. The MMR standards seem to be selling fine without the larger displays, so who knows if and when we'll ever see a large display option.

100% agree. Saw an AFMrLE and a CE next to each other, and it was light years difference in terms of the display! If the topper didn't exist, I'd have bought the SE for the larger display and the shaker motor. The LE was a no-brainer, since I like toppers, and the LE is the greatest topper in the history of pinball.

#11 2 years ago

MMR LE owners did get kinda jobbed, but that's the curse of the early adopter. (shrug)

LE Prices seem to be holding pretty solid in the $8k - $8500 range. Standards in the $7500 neighborhood.

I still think if they made an "LE Upgrade" kit of a large screen, topper, and a more detailed castle, dragon and troll heads (maybe with some light features) they'd probably sell damn near 1000 of them. I'm sure some LE owners wouldn't bite but I bet most of us would.

They could also do a less expensive SE Upgrade with the screen for people who have purchased MMR Standards.

It would be a nice gesture, a chance to make some sales, and it would free CGC up to do guilt free MMR SE and MMR Classic editions and bring MM in line with the rest of the product line.

#12 2 years ago

How many of the MMr machines were made by Stern? Were the majority of MMr made by Stern or CGC. I know a switch was made at some point. The quality of the new MMr should be great as CGC seems to have hit their stride with MBr.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

How many of the MMr machines were made by Stern? Were the majority of MMr made by Stern or CGC. I know a switch was made at some point. The quality of the new MMr should be great as CGC seems to have hit their stride with MBr.

Pretty sure all the LEs (and maybe some of the early Standards) were built at Stern.

I was going to buy what would have been an early CGC MMR Standard in mid 2017 and was waiting for the initial AFMR run to end, so I would imagine any MMs from before summer 2017 are Stern builds.

I ended up picking up an LE from a local pin buddy. It's a nice game and has been fairly trouble free, aside from normal pinball maintenance stuff.

10
#14 2 years ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

MMR LE owners did get kinda jobbed

How so? I got a brand new MM for $8k when restored MMs were going for $20k. I won.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

How so? I got a brand new MM for $8k when restored MMs were going for $20k. I won

That's a good attitude to have. You really did in that respect. I think CGC is reluctant to do any big up grades for MMr because the LE owners would cry fowl. A lot of them did when they found out they had to pay dearly for the color upgrade. The LE should be more than just a number.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

MMR LE owners did get kinda jobbed, but that's the curse of the early adopter. (shrug)

I paid 7999 for the LE back on October/2015, aren't standards the same price? Not sure there is much difference besides the plaque, trim, shaker and discount on the color. Were the standard 1k less at the time.... I'm having a hard time remembering.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

How so? I got a brand new MM for $8k when restored MMs were going for $20k. I won.

We didn't get the XL Display, Topper or upgraded toys the AFMR LE and MBLEs got, and had to pay for the color chip (although hey, $200 off!) for basically the same money.

We DID get Medieval Madness tho so that is a huge win!

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

I paid 7999 for the LE back on October/2015, aren't standards the same price? Not sure there is much difference besides the plaque, trim, shaker and discount on the color. Were the standard 1k less at the time.... I'm having a hard time remembering.

Same price, less stuff.

The Standards also came LATER. You got an LE, and once the LEs were gone, you got a standard.

It was really more an incentive at that point to get on board more than it was it's own unique package. "Buy early and get all this stuff!"

#19 2 years ago

Funny story before MMR was announced someone asked if it was fair to trade

Tron pro + LotR + $$$ cash ($1-2k)

for MM original

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tron-lotr-a-little-cash-mm/page/1

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

That's a good attitude to have. You really did in that respect. I think CGC is reluctant to do any big up grades for MMr because the LE owners would cry fowl. A lot of them did when they found out they had to pay dearly for the color upgrade. The LE should be more than just a number.

Yeah, paying extra for the color DID piss me off.

...but I don't think the price thing has anything to do with the LE buyers. MMr proved it could sell easily for $8k in 2015. CGC didn't expect them to all sell out instantly, that's why the Standard was announced soon after at the same price. Pin prices have gone up more since then....why would they lower the price? MMr can STILL sell at that price...the game just has that prestige, even if it doesn't have all the bling of the CGC games that came later.

#21 2 years ago

MMr with the standard screen looks ridiculous next to AFMr and MBr with the bigger screen for sure.

I don't plan on buying an MMr until the big screen is available for this reason alone.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

MMr with the standard screen looks ridiculous next to AFMr and MBr with the bigger screen for sure.
I don't plan on buying an MMr until the big screen is available for this reason alone.

You have 11 machines, how is this even an issue? lol.

#23 2 years ago

I know owners who paid $7999 or more for the MMr would be pissed if CGC lowered the price, but it should be the same price as the other remakes. $5999 for the classic AFMr and MBr remake is a great deal in today’s market. Maybe make the large screen and new topper for the LE at $7999. I’d definitely be a buyer of MMr if they lowered the price. $5999 standard/classic- I owned an original MM but traded it, wouldn’t mind owning again.

#24 2 years ago

I bought an MMR LE and sold it after about a year. I know several other buyers who did the same. I would guess a large fraction of NIB buyers no longer own the game. I can’t think of any other product where the manufacturer has the ability to make a better version but doesn’t out of respect for people that bought the version they sold several years ago. Did Xbox 360 owners boycott Microsoft once the Xbox one then One X was available for the same price? There is now a lot more competition in the NIB pinball market than when MMR was first sold. If CGC decides to offer a MMR with small LCD screen they are only cheating themselves as virtually all competing NIB games now offer a larger LCD.

#25 2 years ago
Quoted from twenty84:

I know several other buyers who did the same. I would guess a large fraction of NIB buyers no longer own the game.

I still have mine. MM was such a grail to most people - I would bet a lot of people still have theirs nailed to the floor.

#26 2 years ago

I was at an arcade yesterday and as an owner was really proud of all the glowing comments as people were playing it. I was on the game next to it and everyone that played mm pulled over family members to excitedly tell them about the castle that blows up. This game is going to command a premium price forever, it's the #1

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I still have mine. MM was such a grail to most people - I would bet a lot of people still have theirs nailed to the floor.

That's great and I agree with you. Those that are happy with what they have and will never sell won't be hurt by a new version. For a lot of us space is at a premium and new games are a constant temptation so we can't keep everything we might like forever. Some previous owners might be tempted to revisit MMR if they offered a new and potentially better experience. AFM LE and MB LE owners might want something similar to those games with a big color display and a topper. The new game market has changed a lot since MMR was announced in 2013: Virtually every new game now has a large color LCD, no one is paying $15k for a routed original MM, and discounted used HUO MMR are easy to find on the secondary market. I would guess the potential buyers of a NIB $8k MMR standard with a small monochrome displace would be limited.

#28 2 years ago
Quoted from twenty84:

potential buyers of a NIB $8k MMR standard with a small monochrome displace would be limited.

this is a good point.

Currently now MB and AFM classic edition is $6300 (?) no topper and small screen which is about equal to MM standard edition $8K ($8200)?

While I agree that older buyer would feel bad if CGC came out with MM classic $7K and MM SE $8K (large screen color), I would have to think that CGC could sell a lot more with that price structure.

My point being if GCG does selling a large display upgrade that means people paying for two displays and doing all the work and the waste for the environment to make two different displays and having people pan another $600 (display) and $400 (color) on top of an $8K game seems excessive to me.

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from twenty84:

I bought an MMR LE and sold it after about a year. I know several other buyers who did the same. I would guess a large fraction of NIB buyers no longer own the game. I can’t think of any other product where the manufacturer has the ability to make a better version but doesn’t out of respect for people that bought the version they sold several years ago. Did Xbox 360 owners boycott Microsoft once the Xbox one then One X was available for the same price? There is now a lot more competition in the NIB pinball market than when MMR was first sold. If CGC decides to offer a MMR with small LCD screen they are only cheating themselves as virtually all competing NIB games now offer a larger LCD.

I paid $499 for an Xbox one in 2013. Am I mad you can buy one for $199 now? No. The new model is better/upgraded- Same goes for pinball. Wouldn’t hurt business for CGC to lower the price, they might even sell more.

#30 2 years ago
Quoted from Coz:

I paid $499 for an Xbox one in 2013. Am I mad you can buy one for $199 now? No. Same goes for pinball. Wouldn’t hurt business to lower the price, they might even sell more.

To this point, the same has never gone for pinball. I'm not aware of a pinball machine ever being re-run or re-manufactured and then being sold at a lesser price than the model before it. For video game consoles and electronics in general, buyers have always realized that they would have to pay more if they wanted to be first to have the latest and greatest. After the initial hype of the new tech, prices for that same tech would go down. If you weren't in a hurry, you could just wait and buy it cheaper later. I'm not saying that CGC can't change the historical rules, but there is a much smaller pool of buyers for new pinball machines than electronics in general. If they lower the price on one game to sell more, people will catch on quickly, because they will do it on the next game too. They will have to decide if some additional sales of mmr at a lower price will outweigh the new group of people who will now wait to buy their new products until the price drops come. That's my view on it anyway.

#31 2 years ago
Quoted from Mvfvette1:

To this point, the same has never gone for pinball. I'm not aware of a pinball machine ever being re-run or re-manufactured and then being sold at a lesser price than the model before it. For video game consoles and electronics in general, buyers have always realized that they would have to pay more if they wanted to be first to have the latest and greatest. After the initial hype of the new tech, prices for that same tech would go down. If you weren't in a hurry, you could just wait and buy it cheaper later. I'm not saying that CGC can't change the historical rules, but there is a much smaller pool of buyers for new pinball machines than electronics in general. If they lower the price on one game to sell more, people will catch on quickly, because they will do it on the next game too. They will have to decide if some additional sales of mmr at a lower price will outweigh the new group of people who will now wait to buy their new products until the price drops come. That's my view on it anyway.

AFMr was originally $6499, then they reduced it to $5999. So it has been lowered before. No reason MMr couldn’t be rereleased at a slight discount ???

#32 2 years ago

This post topic has been raised in slightly different words at least 3 other times.

#33 2 years ago
Quoted from Coz:

AFMr was originally $6499, then they reduced it to $5999. So it has been lowered before. No reason MMr couldn’t be rereleased at a slight discount ???

AFM had to be cheaper. MMr disturbed the upscale classic market and caused original AFMs and MBs to tumble due to speculation. MM could be sold for $8k cuz they were going for $12k-$20k.

Now that CGC has a portfolio of games to offer, a unit sold is a unit sold. They have no incentive to offer MM cheaper because it sells at that price. If a customer doesn’t want to pay that price, there are 2 other options now.

#34 2 years ago

It would be smart for CGC to release the MMr with the current structure of AFM and MB to renew interest in the game. It would certainly interest me at that point. Otherwise it’s a hard sell to pay 8k and then maybe fork over additional money for a wider screen, especially when games like Wonka and such can be had.

It’s the reason why I chose MB and AFM over MM to begin with. To sacrifice potential future sells would probably not be wise.

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from Coz:

I know owners who paid $7999 or more for the MMr would be pissed if CGC lowered the price, but it should be the same price as the other remakes. $5999 for the classic AFMr and MBr remake is a great deal in today’s market. Maybe make the large screen and new topper for the LE at $7999. I’d definitely be a buyer of MMr if they lowered the price. $5999 standard/classic- I owned an original MM but traded it, wouldn’t mind owning again.

I'd be in for a MMr Classic at 6k, certainly not at 8k. While it's a great game, not worth 8k. That goes for any 90's B/W. Larger DMDs and color do nothing for me, just a waste of money that can go to another machine. I find myself rarely looking at a display during gameplay. Don't get me started on toppers.

#36 2 years ago

Dbl post

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from SkillShot:

Otherwise it’s a hard sell to pay 8k and then maybe fork over additional money for a wider screen, especially when games like Wonka and such can be had.

Wonka blows, and MMr will always be a classic no matter what the screen size.

BTW, CGC big screens aren’t wider. They’re the same aspect ratio, just bigger.

#38 2 years ago

It would be one thing if CGC was struggling to sell the MMr standard editions, but it seems they're selling just fine. Why chop your price down by $2000 per unit just to gain a few more sales? If making more money is the goal, then it makes more sense to sell the larger displays as an upgrade kit. Give a discount to LE owners if you want, but I would be willing to bet quite a few LE owners would buy it even at full price.

#39 2 years ago
Quoted from Coz:

I paid $499 for an Xbox one in 2013. Am I mad you can buy one for $199 now? No. The new model is better/upgraded- Same goes for pinball. Wouldn’t hurt business for CGC to lower the price, they might even sell more.

I don't buy this analogy and I'm surprised that somebody that has bought and sold so many games does. Pinball sales would tank if the resale of pinball machines were to drop significantly. Most of us justify the crazy price we pay for NIB machines with the understanding that we will take a 1K loss or so on average when we sell it (how many machines would you have owned if pins lost more than half their value like your xbox example). Anything that shakes the confidence in the resale value of a pinball machine is going to lead to more people not taking the risk.

Now maybe this is such an exception to the rule it would have no effect (how much lower can they drop these pins in the future anyway) -- but I know I wouldn't buy CGC game for a premium price ever if I feared they would offer a better version for a significantly cheaper price in the future -- pinball entertainment becomes too costly at this point.

I say this as someone that would love to purchase a MMR for the current lower CGC prices.

#40 2 years ago

I completely overlooked this title based on price. If it was priced about 6k for classic edition I would then be interested in it.

However, I have the siblings AFMr and MBr not sure having all 3 would be wise considering room.

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from twenty84:

That's great and I agree with you. Those that are happy with what they have and will never sell won't be hurt by a new version. For a lot of us space is at a premium and new games are a constant temptation so we can't keep everything we might like forever. Some previous owners might be tempted to revisit MMR if they offered a new and potentially better experience. AFM LE and MB LE owners might want something similar to those games with a big color display and a topper. The new game market has changed a lot since MMR was announced in 2013: Virtually every new game now has a large color LCD, no one is paying $15k for a routed original MM, and discounted used HUO MMR are easy to find on the secondary market. I would guess the potential buyers of a NIB $8k MMR standard with a small monochrome displace would be limited.

Agree completely! There's no way I'd buy a NIB MMr standard now, I could get a low-play, HUO MMr standard for at least $1K less... But I'd 100% be a NIB MMrLE buyer at $8.5K if it had a screen to match my AFMrLE and preferably a topper too...

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from iloveplywood:

I don't buy this analogy and I'm surprised that somebody that has bought and sold so many games does. Pinball sales would tank if the resale of pinball machines were to drop significantly. Most of us justify the crazy price we pay for NIB machines with the understanding that we will take a 1K loss or so on average when we sell it (how many machines would you have owned if pins lost more than half their value like your xbox example). Anything that shakes the confidence in the resale value of a pinball machine is going to lead to more people not taking the risk.
Now maybe this is such an exception to the rule it would have no effect (how much lower can they drop these pins in the future anyway) -- but I know I wouldn't buy CGC game for a premium price ever if I feared they would offer a better version for a significantly cheaper price in the future -- pinball entertainment becomes too costly at this point.
I say this as someone that would love to purchase a MMR for the current lower CGC prices.

IMHO, you have it wrong.

What would possibly hurt CGC? BY lowering the price they could attract new buyers, possibly increase sales enough to have an overall increase in profits.

MMr original buyers being a bit mad means nothing. Those same people will still buy the next remake that interests them.

There is inherent risk in buying ANY higher dollar game, esp the first run from any company. Likely to decrease in price upon resale and more likely to decrease more when you paid more to start.

So long at CGC is not dropping the price beyond what AFM/ MB sells for then they will erode zero confidence and the # of happy potential new buyers far outweighs those of current MMr owners.

#43 2 years ago

I even think not much price drop would sell a lot more MMr

$8k standard with large screen
$7k Classic (was the old standard)

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

IMHO, you have it wrong.
What would possibly hurt CGC? BY lowering the price they could attract new buyers, possibly increase sales enough to have an overall increase in profits.
MMr original buyers being a bit mad means nothing. Those same people will still buy the next remake that interests them.
There is inherent risk in buying ANY higher dollar game, esp the first run from any company. Likely to decrease in price upon resale and more likely to decrease more when you paid more to start.
So long at CGC is not dropping the price beyond what AFM/ MB sells for then they will erode zero confidence and the # of happy potential new buyers far outweighs those of current MMr owners.

I agree that in this case it might not mean much, just because it's likely not an indicator of any kind of trend that would put off future buyers. I just think the analogy of price drops for other goods doesn't hold up because buyers of pinball machines do rely on resale value to justify the cost. Again, if I had significant worry that any machine I'd buy might drop over 50% in value I would be much less likely to spend as much on pinball.

The only way a price drop could really hurt CGC is if they came out with an 8K Cactus Canyon as their cheapest model. I'd have to factor in the potential of having to take a 3k loss on it, if they later came out with a 6K version. Or something like that . . .

#45 2 years ago
Quoted from Coz:

AFMr was originally $6499, then they reduced it to $5999. So it has been lowered before. No reason MMr couldn’t be rereleased at a slight discount ???

I have a Stern built MMr Standard, so early run model. We SE buyers and the LE buyers subsidized the technology, chips and chipset/platform and that's the reason AFMr and MBr buyers got better prices. CGC could lower the MMr price now if they wanted to, I think, if they are satisfied with the return on investment at this point. It would lower MMr resale value and that would probably make some owners mad, not me though as I do not plan on selling the machine.

#46 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Note the people who say large display is over rated don’t have one.

Probably because they didn't want one....

#47 2 years ago

Let's face it, the LE buyers back when they got them were ECSTATIC to get a new MMr and at that time, that was all that was out (smaller screen). Given the time that has passed, it seems prudent to put the larger screen in for the sake of consistency with the new line of remakes.. to deliberatly keep older tech/screen size just doesn't make much sense.

To me, if they keep the small screen MMr for $8K, they are just going for a cash grab and not putting their best foot forward for their customers, and I think sales will show it. What would be worse is if they do offer the first 2019 batch with smaller screens, THEN offer the bigger screen a few months once everyone that has been patiently waiting had already made their purchase (July/Aug buyers).

#48 2 years ago

I hope they do, I would gladly buy someones steep discounted MMr with the small screen. :p

#49 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

Let's face it, the LE buyers back when they got them were ECSTATIC to get a new MMr and at that time, that was all that was out (smaller screen). Given the time that has passed, it seems prudent to put the larger screen in for the sake of consistency with the new line of remakes.. to deliberatly keep older tech/screen size just doesn't make much sense.
To me, if they keep the small screen MMr for $8K, they are just going for a cash grab and not putting their best foot forward for their customers, and I think sales will show it. What would be worse is if they do offer the first 2019 batch with smaller screens, THEN offer the bigger screen a few months once everyone that has been patiently waiting had already made their purchase (July/Aug buyers).

Not sure CGC ever did a cash grab, when they built the SE in house they added coin mechs and melamine sides without changing the price. Any customers buying CGC made MMr now are already getting the best MMr deal for those reasons, the Stern built ones had no melamine or coin mechs but CGC kept the double CC and plywood bottom for ALL SE models, was supposed to be LE only, even for Stern built ones. They did put their best foot forward for customers.

#50 2 years ago

I have a nice original AFM with color DMD. I gotta admit that when I see an AFMR with that huge display I get a little jealous.

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