Jeez, we know where you stand, but thanks for speaking for everyone who buys pins on this planet about what do they care or not.

Look no further than ACDC prem, arguably one of the best. Price on them has been dropping since pretty much everyone has one.

We all hope that we can sell stuff we buy for close to what we paid for it.

But the long term reality is that as our generation starts to pass away, the next generation will not have the fond memories of pinball that we did growing up. The values of pins will then start to decline .

Adjusted for inflation, only a handful of titles are now worth more than they cost new.

Good game MM but not as good as STLE or AC/DC, Metallica in my opinion. Bad humour pin's from the 90's just feel dated to me, I think of The Hobbit and new Sterns on the horizon, wait and buy something new and exciting.

That may be true..... But I say we have at least a a good thirty years left. I'm only 45. My kids are immersed in the hobby by evil trickery on my part. They will have fond pinball memories ( each has their own machine).

So don't expect doom and gloom piles of scrap wood and copper just yet.

I agree with you. I think some hardcore collectors will want an original, but I think the market for the few hard core original or bust are going to be few far and between. I am a collector and want my game to be nice an shiny and play well and when people see them say NICE! I look for restored when I can but price always plays apart in it. Example: BBB I would like to have but for $20K no way, not even close. I love my AC/DC BIB and I paid more than I should have for it but have seen them for $14K to $12K. Great game but I am out. If another guy can get $14K for it then what is wrong with that? Would I sell mine? NO, and I would ask $19K to keep you away from it.

It also go for mods. You have the few that are NEVER in my game! and others that can't get enough. Hey, if it's your game screw what the other guy thinks. If you don't want them do not add them, if you do buy them. Simple, it's all about your taste. It's just an options and they are like butt-holes everyone has one. There are games I would never own and games that I have others would never own. It all good and fun. So, yes in short I would buy a MM save some cash and be Happy Happy Happy. I think an Original would and should be higher, its an original.

Well said.

I have the money for MMRE but wouldn't even consider buying one until I can pick one up in the used HUO market in the 5k range. I'm fine waiting a few years. There's just nothing really different between the standard and LE and with an endless supply of standards going to be made I'm ok passing on a NIB.

Considering I've never posted anything on that subject before how you could you possibly know where I stood before my post? Unless you attended Teke's school of Nostradamus and Merlin.

Tru Dat.

Sure, there will be some kids who will grow up liking pinball, but 99.999% of kids today won't have a single childhood pinball memory, let alone the passion like we all did.

The next gen will be collecting cell phones and arguing which model gave the best Angry Birds experience.

Ah, forget much. Your comment of generalizing nobody buy/see pin as a "collectible" was posted about 2 hrs before mine. You do follow the timeline here, yeah?

To the OP, the mindset of buying the MMR as a toy will let you enjoy it way more than buying as an investment.

I follow it very well, I just don't follow your quaalude induced, imbecilic counter point.

No need to argue in the thread guys; take it to PM. Thanks in advance.

Classy, resort to derogatory words and insult. Consider the thumbs up I got, others have no problem following my point. PM him? No thanks. I'm done.

this is incorrect info. MMRLE is limited to 1000 and will never be re-run.

So technically the Standard could be the rarer of the two… will they sell an additional 1000 plus Standards? Doubtful.

+1
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i have no idea but it's certainly possible there'll be more LEs than standards. doesnt necessarily mean theyll be worth less, though. look at marilyn taxis -- a lot more of those around than lolas, yet the marilyns sell for more.

Speak for your self. My collection has been building for years. I view myself as a player and a collector. I have regret about selling some of my Midway pinball machines. Like CV that I purchased in1998. My AFM is mint. I bought it new. Monster Bash I bought it new. I have had many offers . But I like having them in my collection for nostalgia . I will not be doing back flips when or if my prized machine are possibly remade. Because then they will not be as collectable . But it is good for the enthusiast to able to purchase a remake of a classic pinball and there is nothing I can do about that. Peace

So maybe the Standards will sell for more? Why do you think the LE's would sell for more? Just hilarious how gullible some can be because something is labeled 'LE'

When the term LE meant something and they were totally different from the other models and there wasn't an overload of them being pumped out that was true. The LE thing today is nothing more than a selling tool… obviously it works!

I did speak for myself, hence the reason I used the word "majority."

Are you a mind reader .

I have thoughts but don't feel like being banned. Have fun thinking you're correct. Since we can't get into politics here, I simply pointed out that the majority of people could care less if their machines increase in value or are considered "collectables." I'm pretty sure that's still accurate.

You only quoted part of my post which is typical.

I have been saying this for years… Now is the time to save if you are young and ready for the ultimate game room.

HAHAHAHA. What!?

I'm with you brotha.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again

If PPS releases a sub standard MM or releases a game that doesn't live up to expectations, I think original MM prices are going to skyrocket.

If PPS knocks it out of the park and releases a game that is as good or better than the original, I think original MM prices are going to drop further.

I have an MM14 on order, so I happen to believe that they are going to knock it out of the park. I personally don't understand why having different boards, back box or light boards, makes a game less collectable.

Even with the remake, in comparison they aren't going to make THAT many of them. MM isn't collectable because of it's board set, or power transformer.

MM is collectable for a lot of reasons, stellar game play, funny, classic Williams, low production, excellent rules. MM14 is all those things and more. (all new parts, better audio, etc.)

It is all those other than being low production. I might be wrong but I believe 2,000 have already been ordered? By comparison, there were only around 1,000 Iron Man's made and right around 500 CSI's made.

Very true. But even compared to AC/DC, TSPP, LOTR and some other Sterns, 2,000 more MM's is still pretty low. Compared to almost any other Williams game, it is still low.

It's all relative and subjective though. 6,000 units in my opinion is still pretty low, not rare or anything.

Truth is, nobody knows what the future will bring in regards to collectability/pricing. I'm fairly new to pins. But the similarities between pins and HD motorcycles is uncanny. I witnessed the HUGE HD demand/price run up that took off in 1993.....and didn't stop until the economy started to tank in 2007.
In 1995, one of my friends paid $25,000 for a slightly used (1200 miles) Road King, that had an MSRP at that time of $14K. Another one of my friends owned a special edition 91 Sturgis (1600 bikes produced) motorcycle. He bought the bike for $8000 and tuned down someone that wanted to buy it at $20K.
Today, that Road King is a $5000 - $7000 bike. The 91 Sturgis is a $5000 - $8000 bike.
In the mid 1990's, you could buy a new Harley......and sell it for what you bought it for 3 years later. Of course, it eventually ended.
The point is this. Absolutely nobody knows what the future will bring.

Personally, I happen to think PPS will churn out thousands of MMR's, and production will continue until sales drop off. I also happen to think HUO versions will be available at perhaps $6500 in a year or so. That's simply my opinion.
Absolutely nobody has a clue what price point the MMR will be 10 years hence.

Buy an MMR if you want it to play & enjoy....and for no other reason. If you want a good investment, talk to a financial expert.

You just don't seem to understand what collectible means or what collectors want… MMr is not an ORIGINAL. Its not made by Williams and it doesn't even have the Williams logos. Nothing original about it. And nothing collectible about it.

You're making it clear that you not only bought MMr because you want to play it but you're also think it will be collectible… you'll be disappointed there. Buy MMr to enjoy not to collect.

Collectors collect and invest in Picasso paintings because he painted them. Period. No one is investing and collecting paintings that look like Picasso's but were painted by someone else… even if the colors are brighter and the frame is cooler.

And there are less Luci's than BIBLE's and fewer Roadcase premiums than MOPLEs. Rarity doesn't always mean more valuable..

And people collect artist prints, too. Nothing original about them, but they are beautiful to look at, have a limited quantity printed, and in many cases increase in value.

It's best to leave analogies out of the discussion and simply admit it's all speculation and option at this point.

Steve (in Escalon, CA)

This is where I believe your analogy is flawed.

If pinball machines were ONLY static pieces of art, then you would be 100% correct. Then is would be HUGELY important which logo was on the machine, etc....

Obviously that's NOT what pinball is.

So, time will tell, but I think this difference is why there is a POSSIBILITY that a remade MM COULD be worth more than an original. If it plays better, looks better, sounds better- many folks will say its worth more.

btw, not to get into a philosophical discussion, but seeing what sometimes gets replaced/re-fabricated/remade on some of these very high end restoration jobs- the final result may have precious few "original" parts anyways....

I'll give you that but artist prints are perfect copies of the original… MMr isn't even that. And artists prints only increase in value if they keep the numbers very low. My example wasn't even talking about artists prints anyway.

Let's compare Picasso's art to pinball, even though they have nothing to do with each other. . Your arguments are pretty thin sometimes.

Isn't it funny that one of the guys on the team for the Harley Davidson turn around, was the main guy with the Stern turn around.....?

You missed the point… again. Not comparing art to pinball just trying to help you grasp the 'collecting/collector' mindset.

No, just too difficult for you… maybe I'll try flash cards next time.

I have an idea, let's sum up Teekee's thoughts.
1. He doesn't like that MM is being remade.
2. He will pretty much call anyone who is buying one an idiot because he doesn't like the project, so we all must be idiots for buying one.
3. He is mad because the price of the original MMs that he is always flipping most likely won't be so ridiculously high anymore.

That's about it, unless I am missing something. Just tired of seeing him pop up in every MMr thread to bitch.

There are a lot of people who agree with teekee. He's not even saying it sucks. He's simply explaining there is a difference between a remake and an original from a collectible standpoint, and there is.

It seems anyone who says anything negative about MMr in any of the 2,538,630 MMr threads is wrong no matter what.

Is there anybody here on Pinside that does not understand this????

Yeah look up a few posts

He is just yanking your guys chain.

I had not-so-fond memories of pinball from childhood, taking my money and giving me drains. I played WAY more Ms Pac Man and Donkey Kong and thought pinball was all luck. However, I was exposed to pinball here and there. As an adult, all the things that intrigue me: electromechanical nature of pinball, it's a game with lots of skill at play, fun of competing and hanging with other pinball enthusiasts, the art, etc. - those are what have driven my obsession since sincerely entering the hobby only a year ago.

While many kids won't have a pinball memory, 99.999% is a bit high there. My students (about 140 plus visitors) have now all been exposed to pinball (both an EM-Top Score and early SS-Close Encounters). Plus the kids of pinheads have been exposed. Not everything we become obsessed with ties back to childhood in so far as we must have a strong remembrance for it. I do, however, think a large part of the resurgence in past years is likely tied to the childhoods of many collectors. I think that resurgence might just infect the current generation of the next decade's collectors.

Teekee is spot on

I just reran the numbers on my salvaged Cray computer and it says worldwide, 99.999% of children won't have a single childhood memory of playing pinball.

I, of course, applaud people like you who are out there preaching the pin gospel to the kids!

MMR will hold value better than current MM. Give it a year and well see how many sell north of 8k unless it's a mint original or a HEP quality resto.

I know it's an obvious statement, but these things will end up being worth what people will be willing to fork over for them. I have a feeling the originals will come way down unless they are in absolutely top notch condition. I also have a feeling that after a few years, the remakes end up around 5-6K, second hand.