(Topic ID: 67859)

MMR - hypothetically if I bought 20 FS at $8500


By rommy

6 years ago



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  • 53 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by nighttaco
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    #1 6 years ago

    What would y'all think? Would this be cool?

    or if I bought 20 and then hit y'all up for $8500 would I be evil flipper? what about $8300?

    For the record...I just bought one. I did consider more, but I could see the rush was going to be on so just stuck with mine.

    #2 6 years ago

    Congrats on locking in on one (or more........).

    #3 6 years ago

    I don't think you would have much luck with that since the MMR SE is going to be sold at 8k with unlimited numbers. The only difference bieng shaker and trim. Not much incentive to pay over MSRP.

    #4 6 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    What would y'all think? Would this be cool?
    or if I bought 20 and then hit y'all up for $8500 would I be evil flipper? what about $8300?

    Dude, I would TOTALLY buy 20 to flip.

    Hell, go for 30 or more, I say!

    #5 6 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    What would y'all think? Would this be cool?

    Very COOL!

    Quoted from rommy:

    $8500 would I be evil flipper? what about $8300?

    $8900 is better!

    #6 6 years ago

    Ok. The next question which y'all bring up is , COULD the LE be worth more long term? If so...then we are all crazy. But I could see it.

    If I like my repro I will have an original redone.

    Oh yeah. I also like the line of questions we are seeing about taking the $$ from Stern or JJP. Is this MMR taking $$ that could have been spent on NEW pins, I mean really new, and funnelling it into old tech? That could clearly be a dead end for pinball.

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    Is this MMR taking $$ that could have been spent on NEW pins, I mean really new, and funnelling it into old tech? That could clearly be a dead end for pinball.

    If they start remaking titles for less than 5K, maybe. I don't plan on putting out 8K titles on my route all the time.

    Stern is the only company offering titles, and solid ones to boot, for under $5K. They will be fine.

    #8 6 years ago

    Yes, still the nest deal on NIB. And no repeats.

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    Is this MMR taking $$ that could have been spent on NEW pins, I mean really new, and funnelling it into old tech? That could clearly be a dead end for pinball.

    ***maybe*** but there are a LOT of old pins out there in the market. Adding 1000 to that isn't a big deal. Plus, a lot of WMS/BLY collectors aren't terribly interested Stern anyway, so you aren't purely taking that market away.

    -Wes

    #10 6 years ago

    1. I think the tech inside this game is anything but "old tech". in fact, it sounds like they are making some significant innovations regarding boards and wiring and ease of maintenance, etc.

    copied from another thread:

    I just played the prototype yesterday. It is awesome! It plays just like the original with their new electronics. It's still early in the stages but it is a phenomenal copy of the original. It is running with Williams software and their own new electronics. I will say from a technician's view, the new system is incredible. It will make service so easy. Connectors for switches, no lamp or switch matrix, interchangeable processor/driver boards, a reliable cpu, a lot less wires. Did I say a lot less wires, I mean like hardly any! As for reliability, these surface mount LED's and components have improved so dramatically with cell phones that there is no reason to ever consider building a pinball the old way. Let me ask, who's worried about the bouncing of their cell phone in their pocket? I really think the vibration issue isn't an issue at all. As for the LED's, they look great! Their light fill the lenses completely, with a perfect hue and no strobing at all. The cabinet looks better than any repro I've seen. I'm not just saying that, I'd stake my 35 years in the industry on it.

    2. I'm saying this as a MMRLE buyer: I think it's irrational to expect its resale value to rise, particularly in the short term. I think it would be healthier for the hobby if it didn't. But I'm no oracle, so who knows.

    3. This is my first NIB pin, and I had no plans to buy a Stern or JJP machine, so my money is totally new to the industry, and due to this repro. (I will say I think WoZ looks amazing and I'm not criticizing Wizard of Oz, but if they did a theme I happen to be passionate about, I would likely be in line for one of their machines as well)

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    What would y'all think? Would this be cool?

    or if I bought 20 and then hit y'all up for $8500 would I be evil flipper? what about $8300?

    Lol, I just had a chance at an LE and passed. I actually fear at this point a HUO LE or Standard will be doable around 6.5.
    If they sell 1500-2000 I can assure you guys like me who bought MB,AFM etc and tired of them will also do so on these.
    You can try but I don't see it being a winning venture with the sheer numbers coming out.

    #12 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hwawonyu:

    Lol, I just had a chance at an LE and passed. I actually fear at this point a HUO LE or Standard will be doable around 6.5.

    I'm thinking someone willing to wait for a year or so, is going to benefit from getting a deal on HOU here. For me in this case at least, I can't wait, I've been patient for a while now having not purchased a pin in a year and half and never a NIB, so I'm going to splurge here and expect that this pin will be in my home for many years to come. In fact it’s quite possible that it will end up being the last pin to leave.

    #13 6 years ago

    I am not going to do it. But I think some people already have.

    It seems like a big gamble, that HUO will actually rise in price.

    #14 6 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    Ok. The next question which y'all bring up is , COULD the LE be worth more long term?

    I highly doubt it. They are making 1000 of them. That's a huge number relative to the amount of MMs PPS will ultimately end up building. When you couple that with the fact that the standards aren't really any different, I just can't see the LEs becoming particularly collectible.

    #15 6 years ago

    If they are making an amount that will supply the current demand then you would not be able to move them over MSRP. Some will be looking for the HUO MMR's and others will just buy NIB.

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    I'm saying this as a MMRLE buyer: I think it's irrational to expect its resale value to rise, particularly in the short term. I think it would be healthier for the hobby if it didn't. But I'm no oracle, so who knows.

    As another MMRLE buyer, I agree. Anyone willing to pay $8,000 for this would just buy a new SE so long as they're being manufactured. A used MMRLE will therefore be worth less than $8,000 -- I'm hoping not too much less but it seems reasonable to imagine a $1,000-$2,000 discount on a good condition used machine so long as PPS is still selling NIB for $8,000. And of course if PPS decided to lower the NIB price in the future to generate additional sales, used value would decrease accordingly.

    If PPS stops making them entirely some day (I don't know enough about pinball manufacturing to know if it would make sense for them to run semi-annual small batches indefinitely so long as there's any demand) it's conceivable that used prices could exceed $8,000. If prices somehow started getting crazy again though PPS would have a great incentive to fire up production and make more NIB. With everyone aware of this possibility, I just don't see room for used MMRs (LE or SE) to ever sell for much more than $8,000.

    So buy the game if you're excited to play and own it (which is what I'm doing). Just count on taking a loss if you decide to sell it at some point.

    #17 6 years ago

    Well don't look now, but I think there are some for sale at over MSRP on this very site

    #18 6 years ago

    I bet the standard might surprisingly wind up being worth more than the LE for two reasons
    1). Will be made less then LE
    2). Will look more like the original and play like more of the original.

    Just my speculation

    #19 6 years ago

    well, one good thing about the LEs selling out in three hours ... i'm pretty sure Chuck E. Cheese didn't get any!

    #20 6 years ago
    Quoted from MedievalMike:

    and play like more of the original.

    Huh? LE and Standards will play the same.

    #21 6 years ago

    I don't think any if them are gonna be worth more than we pay. They are going to keep making them and they are nearly the same.

    #22 6 years ago

    There is the real possibility that PPS raises their prices on future runs as well. Why not? JJP and Stern does it when the make additional runs. I think JJP does it in $500 increments? If that ended up being the case, the equation would change for HOU.

    #23 6 years ago
    Quoted from MedievalMike:

    I bet the standard might surprisingly wind up being worth more than the LE for two reasons"

    1). Will be made less then LE
    2). Will look more like the original and play like more of the original.

    Not all LEs will have gold trim. The trim color was an option. I chose to go with stainless steel.

    #24 6 years ago

    I bought MMr without knowing anything about the gold trim, shaker motor, or even that it was an LE. I'd bet many of us did. I'm glad for those additions, but had they not been available, it would have been no big deal to me. I like the game play and was never going to own one had this deal not presented itself. I plan to preposition money in expectations for CC or MB being announced next Summer/Fall. Stern's barely in my memory now. I imagine that's the case with others burned like me on unfinished code. So, yes, I think it will impact Stern's bottom line at some point. Probably not immediately if they come out with the much desired Zombie pin, but maybe next year when MB or CC takes another $8M to $16M out of pinball circulation. Yes, I know that AFM is largely rumored to be next, but I think the economics favor either CC or MB being next. Any of the three will be great.

    #25 6 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    well, one good thing about the LEs selling out in three hours ... i'm pretty sure Chuck E. Cheese didn't get any!

    It did not sell out in 3 hours, also factored into the 1000 was everyone that went to PPS site and filled out the form. most people then turned to a Distributor and ordered. I know this for a fact because I have a good friend that placed a order with twistedpins and also filled out the form on PPS site and also did the pinballsales.com (card not charged)

    No one seems to be talking about that. Now he has one paid for and 2 others that are asking for a check to be send over the next 5 days. He has emailed and told them that he does not want the other two machines so thats 2 out of 1000 right there.

    I have seen others post here that they did not get a email after filling out the online form on PPS and went ahead and ordered from twisted or jersey jack so that number is WAY higher than 2.........

    #26 6 years ago

    I thank you for your pedantic reply to my goofy joke.

    #27 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hwawonyu:

    Lol, I just had a chance at an LE and passed. I actually fear at this point a HUO LE or Standard will be doable around 6.5.
    If they sell 1500-2000 I can assure you guys like me who bought MB,AFM etc and tired of them will also do so on these.
    You can try but I don't see it being a winning venture with the sheer numbers coming out.

    That's my plan. I hope they make a crap load of them. Would love to see them crank out 3000+.

    Then down the road I might be able to pick up a nice routed one for 5k or so. If not, well I guess I'll be without a MM just like before.....and I'm okay with that.

    #28 6 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    What would y'all think? Would this be cool?

    Would be extremely cool. I hope you and many others do this. Reason? With the unlimited #'s of non-LE's, flippers are going to be sitting on those LE's they scooped up for a long time until they have to mark them down and sell at a loss to get out from under them.

    #29 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hwawonyu:

    Huh? LE and Standards will play the same.

    Your right. Original did not come with shaker as the standard won't either. So in that aspect a standard would be closer build to the original. I hope they do a good remAke.

    #30 6 years ago

    shaker is both a minor difference and a common mod. anyway, couldn't you just disconnect the lead to the motor and viola, original?

    #31 6 years ago

    When I get my MM I am going to glue it to the floor

    #32 6 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    I thank you for your pedantic reply to my goofy joke.

    Are you telling me that i'm wrong?

    #33 6 years ago
    Quoted from SwampMan:

    Are you telling me that i'm wrong?

    i'm telling you you're being an annoying poindexter by getting technical over a point everyone already understands, in response to a silly joke.

    #34 6 years ago

    You have all gone nuts. How come everytime some new idea for a pin comes along there is so much hype that it is a must have pin. Hope you all buy so I may pick some up in 10 yrs. where I can afford one. I have 4 pins in the top 30 that cost me less then one of these new fan dangled pins. On the other hand more power too you.

    #35 6 years ago

    Ten years is a long wait to bash some castles, in my opinion.

    #36 6 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    i'm telling you you're being an annoying poindexter by getting technical over a point everyone already understands, in response to a silly joke.

    Not trying to be annoying just pointing something that no one else seems to talk about. I have put my money on a LE and am very happy I did and i'm sure I will put my money on the next title as well. I just don't like being told they are sold out of the LE when they have what might amount to 100's of orders that do not send payment this week.....

    #37 6 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    being an annoying poindexter

    That's funny, I havent heard someone called that in a long time. Good one.

    #38 6 years ago

    Price speculation like this is what ruins hobbies.

    #39 6 years ago
    Quoted from bigdaddy07:

    That's funny, I havent heard someone called that in a long time. Good one.

    because calling people names for stating a opinion in a thread about hypothetically speaking is so funny

    #40 6 years ago

    LE will be worth more. All will go up in value when production ceases.

    #41 6 years ago
    Quoted from hank527:

    LE will be worth more. All will go up in value when production ceases.

    This assumes production ceases. What if they have capacity to keep running them indefinitely as needed, or to do a quick run every 1-2 years? No reason to assume PPS will follow the classic Stern/Williams approach of making a pin for X months/years and then moving on to the next project, never to return. I'm in for an LE myself, but I think the posibility of ongoing production (or future production as warranted) should keep prices from rising much even in the mid to long range.

    #42 6 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    I am not going to do it. But I think some people already have.
    It seems like a big gamble, that HUO will actually rise in price.

    Wise move.

    20x 8000 is $160,000

    Assuming a sale price of $8500, 20x 500 profit is $10,000

    If I was investing $160,000 I would want a lot better return than 6%

    That's why I laugh when prople buy Pinballs "for investments"

    They have say $8000 tied up for a year and they *may* make a couple of hundred bucks one day.

    Wow. Big ROI! If you want a few more bucks work a few more hours instead. Or work smarter.

    Buy Pins to play them. Or route them. That's what they are made for.

    rd.

    #43 6 years ago

    I think you'd make a little coin if you did that. At least a grand a piece once they're ready to ship. I'd say two grand a piece if they hadn't added the 2nd clear coat to the standard version.

    #44 6 years ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    I think you'd make a little coin if you did that. At least a grand a piece once they're ready to ship. I'd say two grand a piece if they hadn't added the 2nd clear coat to the standard version.

    Seriously? You think people would pay an extra grand just for the shaker and a plaque?

    #45 6 years ago

    Looking at LTBR that has a LE plaque (MMLe), different side rails (MMLe) and different translate..I'd say there's a pretty good chance

    What's a LTBR going for? like 3-4k over a NIB Premium?

    Quoted from gweempose:

    Seriously? You think people would pay an extra grand just for the shaker and a plaque?

    #46 6 years ago

    I hope the OP was kidding, and I think he was, because anyone with $160,000 to invest and decided to put it into pinball machines doesn't deserve the $160,000 in the first place. If anyone is really that bad with their money then they deserve to sit on 20 new MM's.

    #47 6 years ago

    I think it's gonna be hard to speculate on values until the MMR comes out. My guess is as soon as you open the box you have dropped at least 1k. What if they sell 1000 LE and only get orders for 200 standards? Which is worth more then. What if 3 years from now they make 500 LE with powder red trim? I have not seen anything about how often they plan to reproduce.
    If you spend 8k foe this machine it should hopefully be for the entertainment value, but to each there own.

    #48 6 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    Seriously? You think people would pay an extra grand just for the shaker and a plaque?

    Yup. Monster Bash makes a good case with ACDC. I would also point out TAFG and BSM. Limited status. Plaque. Trim. Etc. People will pay more for that fact, and also to get one sooner. Dispute it all you want. It will likely happen.

    #49 6 years ago

    If you buy that many, I hope you're single like me, otherwise, from what I hear, your wife might
    throw a shit fit.

    #50 6 years ago
    Quoted from nighttaco:

    I hope the OP was kidding, and I think he was, because anyone with $160,000 to invest and decided to put it into pinball machines doesn't deserve the $160,000 in the first place. If anyone is really that bad with their money then they deserve to sit on 20 new MM's.

    Do you also think every distributor needs a new line of work? This is essentially what they do.

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