(Topic ID: 137200)

MMR - Color DMD sneak peek


By CGC_DDUBA

4 years ago



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  • 318 posts
  • 136 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by o-din
  • Topic is favorited by 25 Pinsiders

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    There are 318 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 7.
    -1
    #201 4 years ago

    New dots look good... but not 5k+ good
    Thats how much to swap over to a MMr

    #202 4 years ago

    WOW! Very impressive.

    #203 4 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    I believe what Rick said was that he wouldn't consider licensing epthegeek's CCC code. Rick can have new rules done for CC, but it'd be hard to top CCC. And that's a big stumbling block for a CCr unless potential buyers can see the new rules first because I think there's a pretty market for CCr if it can only run the unfinished original code.

    Hahaha, no, Rick would love to have CCC. He can't though, Eric wants no part in working with him on it. Given how Rick treated him who the hell can blame him? So Rick will have to have someone write their own new code if he does it.

    #204 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Hahaha, no, Rick would love to have CCC. He can't though, Eric wants no part in working with him on it. Given how Rick treated him who the hell can blame him? So Rick will have to have someone write their own new code if he does it.

    I guess Karma's a bitch then.

    In any event, I don't see CCr being in high demand without some sort of upgraded code.

    #205 4 years ago
    Quoted from Shastings:

    This would be great. There is clearly huge demand for it out there given the money people are willing to spend on ColorDMDs. It may only work on popular titles though - the work required would be immense - just doing ColorDMD is a ton of work according to those who've done it - and that's just colouring existing dots. Doing it to the equivalent of the MMR dots would, I'm guessing, take 10x the work. You would need to amortise that cost over a lot more machines to make it viable. Of course if hobbiests are happy to spend a year on it and do it for free, all the better. But the licensee is going to want his pound of flesh.

    Finally - someone gets my point (except remake graphics wouldn't have to be re-done, just licensed).

    #206 4 years ago
    Quoted from moto_cat:

    Because it will stifle sales of the platform it was developed for .

    You solve that with product timing.... Tap out one market, then introduce the new product to wipe up what you danced around the first time.

    #207 4 years ago

    I don't usually ignore people, because I figure I can just scroll past their posts. But dang, my finger is getting tired.

    Anyway, new dots look pretty good!

    #208 4 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    Finally - someone gets my point (except remake graphics wouldn't have to be re-done, just licensed).

    I failed to add, they will NOT do it for any potential remake titles for the reasons already stated. And who knows how long that list is?

    #209 4 years ago

    So what are people willing to pay for this upgrade? Spread out over 1000 games it would be nice to see LE buyers not get hit with a huge profit margin as that could be reaped with standards and developing it for MMOG owners.

    #210 4 years ago
    Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

    New dots look good... but not 5k+ good
    Thats how much to swap over to a MMr

    I can see no scenario where selling an old MM to get an MMR costs $5k+.

    #211 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Hahaha, no, Rick would love to have CCC. He can't though, Eric wants no part in working with him on it. Given how Rick treated him who the hell can blame him? So Rick will have to have someone write their own new code if he does it.

    I can see it now...PPS announce Cactus Canyon Remake made with original unfinished rules and dots. Marketing states if you buy the LE, you will get upgraded to a fully fleshed out ruleset and dots etc etc once finished. Just prior to production they announce......... anyway, you get the picture.

    #212 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    I can see no scenario where selling an old MM to get an MMR costs $5k+.

    The scenario is New Zealand, or Australia for that matter.

    #213 4 years ago

    In Australia, MMR's cost nearly $11K so if you can find me an original MM for $6K please let me know. I have been looking and haven't seen one for sale under $10K.

    #214 4 years ago
    Quoted from WIKED:

    In Australia, MMR's cost nearly $11K so if you can find me an original MM for $6K please let me know. I have been looking and haven't seen one for sale under $10K.

    Are you sure about the current MMr price? Have you checked recently with the current AUD/USD? Without freight and GST/Duty, the straight conversion is $11500. Add $1000 freight and GST and you're at $13500 approx for a MMr. True, $8500 for a MM might be a bit light but not by far.

    #215 4 years ago

    My MMR cost me AU$9995.00 + shipping from Melbourne which Wayne said about $220 as he will pool a few together that will come up here. The dollar doesn't concern me as I paid in full over 12 months when the dollar was .92c. If you didn't pay by then I understand it's going to be a bit dearer for sure.

    I have been looking for an original MM since the MMR was announced and the prices have gone down from $14K to $10K for the ones I have seen on eBay, AA and AP.

    #216 4 years ago
    Quoted from WIKED:

    My MMR cost me AU$9995.00 + shipping from Melbourne which Wayne said about $220 as he will pool a few together that will come up here. The dollar doesn't concern me as I paid in full over 12 months when the dollar was .92c. If you didn't pay by then I understand it's going to be a bit dearer for sure.
    I have been looking for an original MM since the MMR was announced and the prices have gone down from $14K to $10K for the ones I have seen on eBay, AA and AP.

    You made the right call paying in full! 30% appreciation in value. Any ideas when it's due? Around $10 - $12k seems about right now I think, depending on condition. But the currency will drive the value of all machines in Australia up eventually.

    #217 4 years ago

    12.6k + gst + shipping = 15k +/-
    Last MM sold here in NZ was 10k ish

    WICKED. Good thing you paid in full. You are laughing all the way too the bank now

    #218 4 years ago
    Quoted from labnip:

    i call 100% bullsh!t on that statement

    Great comment!

    #219 4 years ago

    It looks amazing. It may be ready in 2015, but not sure if my MMr will have shipped by then. I was close to canceling my order, but am probably going to hang in there.

    #220 4 years ago

    Can't wait to install this software on my new MMR LE , it's the only game I find myself playing in my collection!!! it's awesome

    image_1.jpg

    #221 4 years ago

    This is simply amazing. Thanks to Doug D. and everyone from CGC. You guys rock. Keep up the good work.

    Thanks
    dougram69

    #222 4 years ago
    Quoted from WIKED:

    In Australia, MMR's cost nearly $11K so if you can find me an original MM for $6K please let me know. I have been looking and haven't seen one for sale under $10K.

    That's my point, if you can't get an original MM for $5k cheaper than MMR, then the difference is not $5k. I'd like to find either one for $6k US too...

    #223 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    That's my point, if you can't get an original MM for $5k cheaper than MMR, then the difference is not $5k. I'd like to find either one for $6k US too...

    Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

    (MMr) = $NZ12.6k + gst + shipping = $NZ15k +/-
    Last MM sold here in NZ was 10k ish

    #224 4 years ago
    Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

    12.6k + gst + shipping = 15k +/-
    Last MM sold here in NZ was 10k ish
    WICKED. Good thing you paid in full. You are laughing all the way too the bank now

    Sorry to see they are higher like that in NZ.

    Not laughing until I actually see it arrive in the back of a truck out the front of my house.

    #225 4 years ago
    Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

    12.6k + gst + shipping = 15k +/-
    Last MM sold here in NZ was 10k ish

    I see, the $5k price difference includes $2400 overseas shipping, plus exchange rate, not the game/game cost. It's quite an expense getting a game down there... Maybe get a container of them when the exchange rate is good?

    #226 4 years ago

    I wonder what the difficulty this would be for all future games to be animated in this method. I feel like it modernizes pinball machines, but keeps them with their own unique dot artwork separating them from the LCD displays like in the Jersey Jack games.

    #227 4 years ago
    Quoted from Tsskinne:

    I wonder what the difficulty this would be for all future games to be animated in this method. I feel like it modernizes pinball machines, but keeps them with their own unique dot artwork separating them from the LCD displays like in the Jersey Jack games.

    Just a matter of paying artists. Stern seems to be thinking the 3D route instead judging by their hires. Cheaper and faster that way really.

    #228 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Just a matter of paying artists. Stern seems to be thinking the 3D route instead judging by their hires. Cheaper and faster that way really.

    Custom dots are definitely more awesome, but Stern could be leaning toward their video clips roots (IM, SM, Avatar, etc), essentially what JJP does.

    #229 4 years ago

    Folks,

    I can get all that game art made for $12,000 at cost.

    If I sell 1000 units over time, that's a $12 cost per unit. No profit for me.

    Just keep that in mind when they reach into your pockets (again)

    Ps. Been building games for 26 years.

    #230 4 years ago

    12k sounds pretty low. You may be right, as you're in the industry, but I'm going to throw out my guess anyway.

    It sounds like they've had a couple of people working on this for awhile. Let's say they were paying two guys 60k/yr to develop this over the past 6 months. That comes out to 60k or $60/unit for R&D. You can add another $40/unit, because they don't want to give it away at cost and you end up around $100 for this color upgrade.

    #231 4 years ago

    I guess all of us with money for pinball machines let our customers price our products? I know if I did I'd be broke.

    It will be priced at what the market will bare. Cost of development is irrelevant.

    The only variable in all this is the fact that the games have been so slow coming, so there may be some PR motivation.

    #232 4 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I guess all of us with money for pinball machines let our customers price our products? I know if I did I'd be broke.
    It will be priced at what the market will bare. Cost of development is irrelevant.
    The only variable in all this is the fact that the games have been so slow coming, so there may be some PR motivation.

    I've worked as an engineer on Google AdWords for a long time. All of our products are 100% priced by customers. It has worked out pretty well.

    #233 4 years ago

    In both cases, one sells for what the market can bear. The primarily difference is in who's setting the price, and seeing if the market will pay for it.

    - Pinball, NIB: Sellers set a price; hope the inventory moves. Pricing too low is a wasted opportunity. Pricing too high translates to lots of inventory on hand; and/or the sunk R&D costs being written off.

    - Pinball, Auctions: Buyers set the price. Shill buyers raise the price to see what the buyer will do. This is a game of poker (or perhaps chicken) as the shill pricing things too high turns this into an *effective* no-sale, and sits on the inventory until the next auction (or finds another avenue to sell the machine).

    - Online advertising: The buyers set the price. The buyer with the deepest pockets and the most willpower to claim the spot, in particular, sets the price. The moment that buyer goes soft, the #2 buyer steps up.

    All of these cases: Nobody pays more than they are willing. The moment the price is higher than one is willing to pay, one walks. None of us give a rats ass about what it cost to produce (the games, or the adwords opportunity) - we care about what we get out of the deal, and what it will cost us. Nothing else.

    So, really, I see frolic and dhalem being both quite right.

    #234 4 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I guess all of us with money for pinball machines let our customers price our products? I know if I did I'd be broke.
    It will be priced at what the market will bare. Cost of development is irrelevant.
    The only variable in all this is the fact that the games have been so slow coming, so there may be some PR motivation.

    Also remember that the market is very limited, It can only run on MMr, so far that is 1000 machines, maybe 200 or so standards if they build them.
    CGC will want to maximise its profit as much as it can, lets see what price they run with, my guess is $199

    #235 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    Custom dots are definitely more awesome, but Stern could be leaning toward their video clips roots (IM, SM, Avatar, etc), essentially what JJP does.

    /only becomes problem should Stern ever release an original theme (where they can't just take clips from a movie) and show it on a DMD surrounded by a whole lot of photohopped clipart......

    #236 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    So much for the argument that the original MM is somehow better.
    Meet the new king !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This is so true!!!!

    #237 4 years ago
    Quoted from labnip:

    Folks,
    I can get all that game art made for $12,000 at cost.
    If I sell 1000 units over time, that's a $12 cost per unit. No profit for me.
    Just keep that in mind when they reach into your pockets (again)
    Ps. Been building games for 26 years.

    Is the low price because of the relative low quality of the art? By no means am I saying that it's bad, just it's more Super Nintendo-level rather than WiiU. Frankly, it shows how little DMD graphics have moved forward over the past 20-odd years. A 1997 game having SNES graphics sounds right to me. A 2015 game, though? From the behind-the-scenes clips we've seen from Stern before, they design the DMD animations in color, so they could conceivably use this system going forth if they aren't ready or willing to go straight to LCD screens.

    OTOH, is it because the graphics can be done rather quickly, meaning that the labor cost isn't prohibitive? Could something like that be done in several weeks?

    #238 4 years ago

    Pixel painting art production is commoditized now.
    All the "design" is already done.
    Just need to set color pallets for each segment and color pixels like a coloring book. Part time art director and 2 junior, young, high energy artists can knock it out fast.

    #239 4 years ago
    Quoted from labnip:

    Pixel painting art production is commoditized now.
    All the "design" is already done.
    Just need to set color pallets for each segment and color pixels like a coloring book. Part time art director and 2 junior, young, high energy artists can knock it out fast.

    Look closely at the art... it's not just colorizing existing dots. They drew new art because the detail was not there in the original.

    #240 4 years ago

    First off, wow!!! I've been trying to decide if I want to add an original MM back into the lineup (what the hell was I thinking when I let my first one go???).

    Or, grab a remake? It appears that quite a few remakes are available, either gently used or new. And, if the display looks like this, I think I'm in.

    If a guy buys a used MMR LE, I presume he will have to pay to upgrade the display? Not a big deal.

    #241 4 years ago

    Pixel painting art production is commoditized now.
    All the "design" is already done.
    Just need to set color pallets for each segment and color pixels like a coloring book. Part time art director and 2 junior, young, high energy artists can knock it out fast.

    Quoted from flynnibus:Look closely at the art... it's not just colorizing existing dots. They drew new art because the detail was not there in the original.

    Yup. All part of having artists do it instead of non-artists. It's their trade to improve when given the opp.

    #242 4 years ago
    Quoted from labnip:

    Folks,
    I can get all that game art made for $12,000 at cost.
    If I sell 1000 units over time, that's a $12 cost per unit. No profit for me.
    Just keep that in mind when they reach into your pockets (again)
    Ps. Been building games for 26 years.

    I'll take you up on that for $12K. PM me, I live south of Austin.
    Your quote only mentions art - what about software - tool chain and integration. How much would that be?

    #243 4 years ago
    Quoted from pugface:

    I'll take you up on that for $12K. PM me, I live south of Austin.
    Your quote only mentions art - what about software - tool chain and integration. How much would that be?

    Depends on what's in the base tech stack already. then can measure variance from there.
    Tool chain should be a frame2pin data converter/packer, not much more. (create once folks agree on artist image format provided). Not like this would require a 3d world builder maps, 3d models, light sources/configs, event scripts, 3d animation patterns, physics configs, 2d assets, & new audio tool path.
    Helpful to have a menu option to flip between original dots to color dots. (exists yet?)
    Pin code block to process color dots (ie: each dot hold it's color values or point to a CLUT). (hopefully built already in base system).
    Adjust use of ram/vram to contain larger dimension/depth for color frames (hopefully built already in base system).
    Define/design upgrade method for customers to load new code/data into pin (hopefully exists already via standard upgrade path).
    Based on those variables and any other existing design (that i don't have info about), could create scope, project plan, estimate effort, budget it & get 'er done.

    The frame2pin code & baseline pin code to support this should be fully reusable across future projects, and therefore can be capitalized (and justifiably) over a 5+ year time frame, which one could argue doesn't make the case for full cost recover & margin recognition on the first pin customer base. The art assets (for the most part, ie: not any CGC or PPS logo sequence stuff) would be pin specific and have a different accounting.

    #245 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    Maybe get a container of them when the exchange rate is good?

    our dollar is goin down faster than .......... (insert whatever here)

    importation now, is just a whole new level of hurt...

    #246 4 years ago

    hey Doug, u didnt list your current pin collection. : P

    2 weeks later
    #247 4 years ago

    Has the screen tearing issue been fixed with this?

    #248 4 years ago
    Quoted from Chosen_S:

    Has the screen tearing issue been fixed with this?

    That's apparently already dealt with in a software update. I think Rick mentioned new games coming off the line now have it in place (not 100% sure on that) but it hasn't been released as an update for existing games yet.

    #249 4 years ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    That's apparently already dealt with in a software update. I think Rick mentioned new games coming off the line now have it in place (not 100% sure on that) but it hasn't been released as an update for existing games yet.

    That's good to know, thank you !

    #250 4 years ago

    No matter how you cut it.. Still so ridiculously overprized it is just a silly pure shame...

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