MMR bill acceptor install

I use AE-2411 bill acceptors in my Stern machines and my MMR seems to have the same type of connector to the inside left of the coin door and the schematics don't seem to have that connector in them (unless I missed it). The only mention of a bill acceptor in the MMR manual refers to the software option of what coin slot the acceptor is hooked up to.

Help? Is there a factory recommended way on installing a DBA on a MMR or do you just scavenge power somewhere and wire the output to a coin switch?

#2 9 years ago

JMD

1967Firebird

Pinside+ Frequent

Blue Springs, MO

11y 75,300 784 5

Lloyd put this on the PPS forum

Bill Validator

For anyone wanting to install a bill validator, here is what I found that works quite nicely.

ICT US4 12 Volt 300 capacity.

Larger capacity won't let you close the coin door.

LTG : )

#3 9 years ago

JEF

sandersj

Pinside member

Thanks for the info!

#4 9 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

I just looked in the schematics too and you're right. I could not find any 120 volt ac bill acceptor wiring shown in the schematics. They need to add that to the manual.

How about a picture of the connector you do already have in the machine that you believe to be for a bill acceptor?

#5 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Quoted from KenLayton:
How about a picture of the connector you do already have in the machine that you believe to be for a bill acceptor?

The connector used on the game is the standard 9 pin square connector. To match the bill validator.

Only difference is the game is 12 volts in the spots normally used for 110. So the AE-2411 will plug in and not work.

I ran into that, and most validators come with a 500 capacity box for the bills. You need the smaller 300 capacity so you can close the coin door.

LTG : )

#6 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Quoted from KenLayton:
I just looked in the schematics too and you're right. I could not find any 120 volt ac bill acceptor wiring shown in the schematics. They need to add that to the manual.

There isn't wiring for 120 volt ac bill acceptor.

MMR is 12 volts.

Manufacturers have been going to lower voltage bill validators to make UL approval easier, and not have high voltage running around up front.

LTG : )

#7 9 years ago

MEZ

meSz

Pinside member

12y 102K 7,400

Quoted from LTG:
The connector used on the game is the standard 9 pin square connector. To match the bill validator.
Only difference is the game is 12 volts in the spots normally used for 110. So the AE-2411 will plug in and not work.
I ran into that, and most validators come with a 500 capacity box for the bills. You need the smaller 300 capacity so you can close the coin door.
LTG : )

Lloyd, out of curiosity is this the same with the original MM? If not what was done differently on the MMr?

#8 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Quoted from meSz:
Lloyd, out of curiosity is this the same with the original MM? If not what was done differently on the MMr?

See this part :

Only difference is the game is 12 volts in the spots normally used for 110. So the AE-2411 will plug in and not work.

MM is wired for 120 volts, MMR is wired for 12 volts.

LTG : )

#9 9 years ago

MEZ

meSz

Pinside member

12y 102K 7,400

Quoted from LTG:
See this part :
Only difference is the game is 12 volts in the spots normally used for 110. So the AE-2411 will plug in and not work.
MM is wired for 120 volts, MMR is wired for 12 volts.
LTG : )

Okay thanks. What about the 500 vs 300 box. Can you put a 500 in an original MM?

#10 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Quoted from meSz:
Okay thanks. What about the 500 vs 300 box. Can you put a 500 in an original MM?

I never tried. All my AE-2400 series came with 300 capacity stackers.

Same size coin door, same holes for a bill validator, same ball trough and front of playfield on both. So I doubt a 500 box would allow the coin door to be closed on an original MM.

LTG : )

#11 9 years ago

MEZ

meSz

Pinside member

12y 102K 7,400

Thanks Lloyd!

#12 9 years ago

JEF

sandersj

Pinside member

While we're chatting......... on the Happ web page for the recommended DBA when you click on the manual you can dig up the image below. My apologies for not being near my machine and being able to check myself but does the 9 pin connector just supply power or does it also handle the pulses?

The reason I ask is that the MMR manual has that section where you tell it which coin switch the DBA is hooked up to so it can deal with faster pulses. Do we need to run the wires on pins 7 and 8 to a switch and solder to the appropriate lugs?

DBA.jpg

#13 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from sandersj:
does the 9 pin connector just supply power or does it also handle the pulses?

Power and pulses. Only difference is power - 12 volts instead of 120.

LTG : )

#14 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

I might add that the ICT US4 12 Volt 300 capacity is plug and play. Set harness enable off and pulses per dollar to 4.

LTG : )

#15 9 years ago

JEF

sandersj

Pinside member

Most excellent, thanks for the help. This info might make for a good addition to the manual unless I'm just blind and missed it.

#16 9 years ago

JEF

sandersj

Pinside member

http://na.suzohapp.com/amusement_products/bill_validators/42-3734-00?SS=ON

Egads..... I called Suzo Happ and tried to order this: (the recommended DBA)

with a 300 note stacker and they said that it comes with a 500 note stacker, and that I'd have to buy the 300 note stacker separately ($45), but wait! They're out of stock of the 300 note stackers and there's a 2 week lead time. They have a 110V version with a 300 note stacker but they claimed you can't interchange the stackers.

Let the hunt for an alternate 12V DBA begin.......

#17 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from sandersj:
Egads..... I called Suzo Happ

Don't panic. I called them too trying to get just the 300 stacker. They told me at least two months.

Do you have a vending company or distributor in your area ? Call them. ICT has used the same stacker on many models for some time. Find yourself a used 300 stacker like I did for $25.

The stacker is interchangeable between the ICT 110V and 12V, that is what I did.

LTG : )

#18 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

http://na.suzohapp.com/amusement_products/bill_validators/42-3734-00

300, 500, 800, etc. models available.

Tell them you want a 300 model. Just to mess with them.

LTG : )

#19 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Before I stumbled into a 300 stacker, I compared the ICT with a 500 on it to an AE-2400 with a 300 on it, and was considering cutting a little off the top and back of the stacker so it would fit.

Or cutting the 12 volt wires and running 110 AC to the spots on the connector.

LTG : )

#20 9 years ago

JEF

sandersj

Pinside member

>cutting a little off the top and back of the stacker so it would fit

been there, done that before. not pretty but it can work.

I just called Great Lakes Amusement and they have a 12V Pyramid DBA with a 200 note stacker and a compatible harness (or so the guy said) I'll see how that works.

#21 9 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

If this machine is using 12 volt DC bill acceptors, then I would strongly suggest the machine manual be updated to indicate this. If I saw a 9 pin AMP connector in the machine, I would naturally assume conventional Mars bill acceptor pinout and 120 volt AC power since that is what all previous pinball machines used.

99.9 % of the bill acceptors I use and see on the route are 120 volt AC units since I also deal with soda pop machines and cigarette machines. Heck, even our Megatouch machines and the jukeboxes use 120 volt AC bill acceptors.

#22 9 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

OP
Quoted from sandersj:
>cutting a little off the top and back of the stacker so it would fit
been there, done that before. not pretty but it can work.
I just called Great Lakes Amusement and they have a 12V Pyramid DBA with a 200 note stacker and a compatible harness (or so the guy said) I'll see how that works.

Pyramids are OK, but once in a while will have a bill jam.

#23 9 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

http://www.wachtor.com/home.html

Quoted from LTG:
Don't panic. I called them too trying to get just the 300 stacker. They told me at least two months.
Do you have a vending company or distributor in your area ? Call them. ICT has used the same stacker on many models for some time. Find yourself a used 300 stacker like I did for $25.
The stacker is interchangeable between the ICT 110V and 12V, that is what I did.
LTG : )

Wachtor Electronics is an authorized service/parts/accessories center for Mars and Pyramid bill acceptors. When I've needed different sized bill boxes/magazines, they've had decent prices on new and used ones.

#24 9 years ago

RYN

ReplayRyan

Pinside+ Addict

Matthews, NC

12y 80,300 1,462 5 3

Why in the world would they change the bill acceptor plug to 12V? 120V is industry standard. Or at least do 24V like vending. 12V bill acceptors are rarely used and thus much more expensive. I don't see how it would make any difference in testing as you have 120V in that area of the machine anyway.

That said, if it were me I would cut the wires supplying 12V on the connector and splice in 120V from somewhere to use a MEI 2411 or similar.

#25 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Quoted from ReplayRyan:
Why in the world would they change the bill acceptor plug to 12V? 120V is industry standard. Or at least do 24V like vending.

Easier to get UL approval not having 120 AC running around the coin door. And they needed 12 V in the game anyway, so they already had a power source without making a 24V one.

LTG : )

#26 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Quoted from KenLayton:
If this machine is using 12 volt DC bill acceptors, then I would strongly suggest the machine manual be updated to indicate this.

Probably too late for the manual, maybe they'll consider a service bulletin or something ?

LTG : )

#27 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Quoted from ReplayRyan:
12V bill acceptors are rarely used and thus much more expensive.

The ICT one I got from Suzo Happ was $229.00, cheapest validator I ever bought. And scrounging Ebay, etc., was $40 to $50 cheaper than other sources. The Pyramid one is around $299.00.

LTG : )

#28 9 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

Quoted from LTG:
Probably too late for the manual, maybe they'll consider a service bulletin or something ?
LTG : )

Yeh, a service bulletin would probably be a good idea.

#29 9 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

http://www.amusementsplus.com/index.php?pr=Category&cat=35&sub=159&id=2296

Quoted from LTG:
The ICT one I got from Suzo Happ was $229.00, cheapest validator I ever bought. And scrounging Ebay, etc., was $40 to $50 cheaper than other sources. The Pyramid one is around $299.00.
LTG : )

Brand new Pyramid 120 volt AC bill acceptor on sale for $219:

Pyramid 12 volt DC version just $214:

http://www.amusementsplus.com/index.php?pr=Category&cat=35&sub=159&id=2297

#30 9 years ago

ESA

stangbat

Looks like I'll be running 120v to the coin door.

#31 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Quoted from stangbat:
Looks like I'll be running 120v to the coin door.

I'd check with PPS/CGC to see what that does to your warranty.

LTG : )

#32 9 years ago

ESA

stangbat

Quoted from LTG:
I'd check with PPS/CGC to see what that does to your warranty.

Looks like I won't be running 120v to the coin door.

#33 9 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

From what I've seen of genuine Williams factory installed bill accepter wiring harnesses, it looks like they got their UL approval by simply sliding vinyl tubing over the 120 volt ac wires to the bill acceptor plug.

#34 9 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Quoted from KenLayton:
From what I've seen of genuine Williams factory installed bill accepter wiring harnesses, it looks like they got their UL approval by simply sliding vinyl tubing over the 120 volt ac wires to the bill acceptor plug.

That was a long time ago. Things are probably harder now to get approved.

LTG : )

#35 9 years ago

JEF

sandersj

Pinside member

Admittedly I was in a rush and bought the first thing I saw that would work but the Pyramid DBA from Great Lakes Amusement was only $228 shipped with harness. I'll have it next week and report back results.

1 week later

#36 8 years ago

JEF

sandersj

Pinside member

OK, so here's the results on the Pyramid DBA. Its in and its working, that's good and it was available with a 200 note stacker which fits fine. Just plugged it in to the 9 pin connector in the game, set the dip switches, and away it went ringing up credits. The bad news is that it was a serious bitch to install. I selected an upstacker like my other pins and the lower DBA hole in the coin door has some metal tabs in the upper corners that I had to file off to physically get it onto the door as the tabs interfered with the DBA. Then the screws that came with the door weren't long enough to work but fortunately my location had some longer ones with the same thread. Then the wiring harness that came with it is really short and I have to be careful opening the coin door not to yank connectors out. Its in, kinda crooked, but working and sucking in people's money.

So it looks like LTG's original suggestion of the other one from Suzo/Happ is the way to go with this. I'd be curious to hear reports from other DBA installs.

#37 8 years ago

ESA

stangbat

Good to know. I'll add that it is extremely easy to run a regular MEI 2400 series upstacker in the game. All you have to do is run 120v to the plug that is to the left of the coin door. You can tap into 120v at the 12v switching power supply in the cabinet. You will need the proper crimp contacts (Mouser Part #571-1703641), and about 3 ft of wire. Install load and neutral in the correct spots on the connector next to the door (Pin 4 is load, Pin 6 is neutral).

I'd advise you to put the two 120v wires in heat shrink tubing so they are clearly separate from the other wiring.

#38 8 years ago

JEF

sandersj

Pinside member

Thanks, I try to avoid anything remotely resembling a hack and "stick with the program" but your approach would be greatly preferable that what I ended up doing.

#39 8 years ago

ESA

stangbat