(Topic ID: 136653)

MMr - Colorization Pricing and Availability...Finally!

By eharan

8 years ago


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  • Latest reply 7 years ago by fosaisu
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#847 8 years ago

The bigger question is - why did it take this long for them to figure out a "security chip" was needed? All this time preparing the color update, only to figure out at the end that a security chip is needed?

1 month later
#1040 7 years ago

Can't this be reported to a mod and they will check the IP address against other users?

2 months later
#1609 7 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Ask yourself this:Can you think of a single game that was made in the last ten years that has had as many problems and disgruntled customers?
I can't.....

I think for whatever reason the problems seem to be greatly magnified for MMR. Ask yourself which is worse - ghosting playfield inserts that are happening almost immediately after receiving a brand new game in multiple places, or lighter ink that makes it a little difficult to read the insert when lit? Ghosting is 100 times worse, and of course people are talking about it - but it seemed everyone crucified MMR and treated that problem worse. It doesn't really make sense. Lighter ink is a much, much, much less problem than ghosting inserts. I'd actually be surprised if Stern didn't have the exact same ink issue on some of their pins - it's just not noticed as much.

Elimination of coin mechs - again, greatly magnified. Stern has removed or lowered the quality of tons of more important things in pinball machines - seemingly each year something gets cheaper. Whether it be backglass, lockdown bars, etc etc. While there are certainly some grumblings, it is nothing compared to MMR. Coin mechs are generic and can easily be added if wanted, yet much of what Stern does you can't simply fix with $25.

I'm not saying the problems are justified - what I am saying is that it seems there is just some extreme hate out there for MMR - and if the same problem were at Stern, it would not have as much hate as it does with MMR.

#1615 7 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

At least WoZ was a major undertaking. A MM remake? A remake of a 20 year old game with pretty much all the parts readily available?

If it were that easy, you'd think Stern would have gotten the rights a long time ago and done it themselves. I view Stern's inability to do this a MAJOR business mistake. They should have been going after that for years - aggressively. They missed a huge opportunity.

1 month later
#2228 7 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

Value is perception, not lying.
What you value at $400, someone else may value at less.
What's the value of a new car when it drives off the lot?
A gallon of gas sold by a gas station at a busy corner has a higher value than the same company selling a gallon of gas a mile away at a slow intersection. Same gallon of gas, but different value & sold by the exact same company. What's the value then? What is it's resell value after?
Ever tried reselling a diamond? what's it's value? what is the "legal" value if you had to mail it?
If I told my 'ol lady what this mod is (in full detail), she wouldn't give me $5.00 for it, even though I value it greatly. What's it's value then, and to who/m?
If I load a piece of $5m software on the $2 chip, do I have to register the value to mail at $5m? seriously? no... of course not. it's a $2 chip, some ear tweezers, foam & a plastic case. That's about $10 of value for shipping.
Didn't this Colorization software cost about $100,000.00 USD to make? So, that is it's Value right. Shouldn't that be the amount put on the international shipping?
If I buy a share of stock 10 years ago at $5 & mail it to Canada today, what value do I put on it? What I paid, or what it's estimated to be worth now? If I checked it's value before driving to the post office and it was $200, then when I get to post office 2 hours later and it's value on the stock market shot up to $400 right when I got there & mailed it, but didn't know it's value changed, did I break the law? ...and did it make a sound if there was no one there to hear it ?

Talk about taking it to an extreme! Customs declaration is simply the price paid for the item. It isn't "perception". What you are saying is as ridiculous as arguing with the car dealer on sales tax because once you drive the car off the lot the value goes down and thus you should only have to pay sales tax on the reduced value, not what you bought it for. If you buy a laptop from another country, the value is the price you paid for it - not the "value" after you opened it and it became used. You are making a very silly argument. As much as you may dislike PPS - they have to abide by the law, and they need to put the price paid for the item as it's declared value. It may be OK for you to do a lower valuation on something you sell and get it through - but company's do not take such risks. Tax fraud and evasion is a serious offense.

#2246 7 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

Ok... not sure if any of this helps, but I was curious.
Was on the road just a bit ago & stopped at local shipping company and posed some of these questions.
Here's the feedback I got.
Q1. If I spend $40,000,000 on building some software & I put it on a $5 flash drive & mail it Canada, what do I list on the price for customs form?
A1. The price of the $5 flash drive. He also asked, am I completely loosing all access to this software when shipping or is it a copy. I told him a copy. He said, definitely in the case that it's a copy, the price of the item being shipped is $5. He said, if it's my only copy of the software & I no longer have any possession of it, he "probably" thinks it's also $5, but wasn't 100% sure, but that's what he & everyone else would probably list it as. I thought that was a good question on his part.
Q2. If someone in Canada buys some software on a $5 flash drive from a US company & it is shipped to a person in the US. Then the person in the US later decides to ship it to a person in Canada, what do you list on the price for customs form?
A2. He said, you'd list it at $5. He said Customs doesn't care what's on the flash drive (unless it's "bad" stuff). If they open it up & see a $5 flash drive & that's what you listed it as, then they're going to be ok with it. He said, in this case it's really just a personal ethical decision, not a legal decision. He also said, if you didn't know what anyone paid for it, the decision is very easy, $5. He said, now that it's a second hand item, really who is to determine what it's worth other than the physical item (the flash drive).
He also said that there is a US $2500.00 special price/value boundary. So, if you're shipping something obviously over $2500.00 USD from the US to another country, that there's an additional online form you have to fill out & provide as part of the international shipping process (along with whatever the customs fees are for that item(s)).
He showed me this FedEx shipping form about max amounts that items can be listed as (in these methods of shipping). But he said, that's really about liability protection, not customs laws.
Note: this is a verbal conversation & in not based on research of US laws. Just thought it was interesting.

Let me clarify some of your examples:

A1: Yes, that is correct. Because $40,000,000 is the R&D behind the item, not the actual value of the item. For instance, Microsoft may spend $20,000,000 on developing Microsoft Office 2020, but when someone orders a copy internationally, the value isn't declared at $20,000,000 - it's the cost the customer paid. In your example, if your customer paid you $40,000,000 - then yes, that would actually be required to be the declared value.

A2: Again, you would first use the price the person in Canada paid for it. You are forgetting that aspect completely. If you were sending for free, then it would be a gift and tax/customs rules may change at that point depending on the country.

The most accepted method of declared value for merchandise is the price paid by the customer.

#2250 7 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

hi,
i'm not forgetting it.
it's just... i didn't pay for it & i'm not selling it to the person in Canada.
also, what about the case, where I don't know it's price (legitimately) ?

There are many times with taxes that you have to approximate - it's not always black and white. As long as it makes logical sense, and is not artificially lower to avoid paying taxes, generally you will be fine. Also keep in mind insurance, which is only going to cover the declared value as well. It's perfectly reasonable to say - well I ordered an MMr color chip new for $200, and I'm now giving it to a friend to whom I will ship it, so I think it's worth $100 since it's used and there's no other way to gauge the price.

#2251 7 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

I totally agree with you on that scenario.
But what if I am not charging the person in Canada for it & i'm shipping a $5 usb stick with the software on it from the US to a fellow in Canada ?
(honestly... i don't know)

$5, because the person in Canada isn't buying it and it is just a copy. It's just like a software company shipping out an expensive piece of software to a few people for free so they can beta test. The value is simply going to be the USB stick - not the cost of developing the software.

23
#2264 7 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

The color code is Chicago Gaming's project and product. It is theirs to tell PPS what and when they are going to do. It is PPS input to them as to what I think they should do. So, if you want to know the details of what Chicago Gaming will do then ask them or wait until they tell me and then I will let people know and hope that follow thru on that. Hope that clarifies.
thank you.

Let me do a complimentary PR edit on this post for you!

"Hey guys - we've heard you about the color code questions and concerns you've brought up here and just wanted to let you know that I'm actively engaged with giving Chicago Gaming this input. So while technically the color code isn't a PPS project, I'm still passing on all of your feedback and giving suggestions. Just waiting on them to respond at this point, and once I hear anything I'll pass it on. Thanks again everyone for all of your support on our first game - we're still working to make it better!"

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