We traded for a MM a while back and have absolutely played the hell out of it. About a month ago we were on vacation and were hitting pinball places whenever we could. We played a MMr a good bit and I honestly couldn't stand it when I was picking out all the differences(in sound, slings, flippers, shots, etc). Once I stopped trying to compare everything it got better but I still couldn't wait to get back to our MM.

Now my 15 year old son on the other hand didn't equate the differences as negative. He just said it was different but he still enjoyed playing it.

To each his own but I'm glad we were lucky enough to trade for our machine... and then upgrade to Flipper Fidelity and ColorDMD and custom LEDs.

So, Roger Sharpe was wrong?

How can they be that different? Comparing a 15 year old MM (restored or not) to a new MMr is not a good comparison. I think you need to compare a MMr to a new MM for a good feel.

Also, most of the "it's not the same and feels different" are from people that have MM's at home.

All machines play differently. If anyone has played in pinball leagues they have heard of the curse of owning the game in that the neuromuscular memory of your own game hinders you when playing at a hosts house which, you guessed it, plays completely different. No 2 machines play the same way, that goes for MM's and MMr's, or TZ's or Addams Family etc.

The fact that an experienced MM player didn't like the MMr while the 15 y.o. felt it was different and enjoyed it can be explained by that neuromuscular memory. If the experienced MM player plays the MMr consistant and "rewires"the way the brain registers the shots for a long enough time the reverse will be noticed. I found myself saying and I'm sure many of us have said "I have this machine at home but this one plays completely different".

I wish, I'd gladly swap his and my bank accounts.

9k remakes make sense for roughly one pin...MM. Nice condition originals were north of 13k before MMr was announced. When you save 4-5k, the business model makes sense (even if it isn't quite as wonderful as the original...). Doesn't make sense for AFM or MB.

If street price for a B/W remake isn't equal to or less than the price of a NIB Stern Pro, it's hard to make sense of. MMr is only a game...MM is a game and a collectable.

I respectfully disagree, they are all games meant to be played and enjoyed period. Owners of MM or MMr are BOTH winners.

It isn't about the games "playing different" no 2 games alike, etc. Believe me, I know this pretty well.

It is about the game being cheap, feeling cheap, looking like a copy, etc. It has nothing to do with the game just playing differently in general. Nothing on that game to me sounds/looks/feels better than any MM original I have seen.

Yes, to each his own, but I've played and owned (and still own) a ton of pinball machines.

And let me say this about people that "play" pinball vs people that "design" pinball.

Just because you make a pinball does not mean you play it or know it better than any one person who might have been playing the game still 20+ years later.

Same goes with video games. Do you think the designer(s) of fighting games know every nuance in their own games? No. They don't.

It is precisely why people hire testers/players/etc for stuff like that but again, it's just an opinion but I'm not some random hipster kid who just got into pinball yesterday and I've played (I can't even count) so many machines (and still own a ton) that it would make your head spin.....that is just from experience. I personally do not like it or think it is better than an original.

The greed surrounding both MM and MMr have left me apathetic to ever owning this title. Bad taste in my mouth means lack of passion for title. I'm moving on. No real interest in any remakes as long as the drama continues.

They are both games meant to be played and enjoyed. Agreed.

One is a collectable...fixed number made. Apparently, MMr will be copied as many times as necessary. As a result, it's hard to argue it's collectable.

So true. You think "ooh, I own this one, I have the advantage here!" and then weep as all the little things you're used to are totally different, and screw you more than if you'd just approached the game cold.

I've played MMr, it's fine. And the little mistakes and problems? They suck, but that's pinball. I don't blame anyone for them, it happens. For me it comes down to one thing: communication. Just be honest and up front. And if you can't do that, don't take pre-order money, and be quiet and secret all you like.

I think Rick's last big post was exactly what we should see. Up front communication. He took a little swipe at me sure, but the only thing I was dinging him for was not doing that earlier.

Given that PPS / CGC seem to price based upon MARKET conditions.... not actual product cost / development time; I'm going to wager this isn't a $100 upgrade. ColorDMD has set the price at $400. So I expect the color upgrade for MMR to be north of $300; regardless of if it's a software only change.

Cactus canyon, bash, Big Bang...can't think of anything else that makes sense.

Kingpin

LTG : )™

If it is only a software/code update then it should be free since people have paid a premium price for the game. If it is a chip change then it should probably be a nominal fee much less than $100 for the same reason as a software/code update. If the color requires an additional circuit board (and maybe other additional hardware) then I suspect, given the track record of the project, buyers should be prepared to get reamed on the costs.

Sure, but I don't see the type of demand that would make it reality. Just because a title is high priced, doesn't mean you will sell 2,000 of them. MM fired on all cylinders. Non pinheads could care less about CC/BBB and most pinheads don't love the gameplay. With MM, it seems like almost everyone was smitten.

No two machines play the same, I've owned two Addams family's, which i took both new out of the box. Regular and gold, the gold was stiff and never played smooth ? I played a new MMR and I thought it played incredible! If and when I get my MMR I will have to see

Ok ,coin mechs, slings,colorization, Let's just all learn from this and it's easy to do !

F--%K. Pre orders !

Premium? People paid 6k more than that before the remake. Do you understand the concept of premium price?

Yeah! F**k 'em hard!

...uh...right after I get Game of Thrones. And Star Wars.

Then, yeah...what YOU said.

I think they would be hard pressed to pre sell 500 kingpin machines.\
Monster bash 1k easy but people would not want to pay two years in advance.
I think the pre order business is 10-15% of all future releases.

If we are tossing out names Funhouse 2.0 would have both ops and collectors ordering.
2.0 meaning with dmd.

I had to pay for colour on my MM, so should MMr owners

That would require impulse control.

They have always been $8000. Just about anybody in pinball considers $8k a premium price for any new game.

No, they were going for 14k for good ones. 8k is a steal compared to where the prices were. You were getting beaters for 8k+ in 2012.

mental.gif

There are a LOT Of pinheads now, and they aren't all here. There are also new buyers all time who do their homework QUICK even if they are buying their first and only game and can get caught up in hype. Google Cactus Canyon or BBB and I think even someone "not in the know" would figure it out quick that those are very sought after.

I don't think you need to sell 2,000 - 1,000 will do fine and they could move the super rare A-list titles like CC and BBB. Just a hunch.

I'm bored with remakes. Bring on the 2.0 games, at least there's some original thinking there. Too many cool new games coming out to want to buy something that's already been done.

yup

Is the colour print free or is it a paid upgrade?

$8000 for a remake is a premium price for a pinball machine in general, especially a NIB game.

http://study.com/academy/lesson/premium-price-definition-lesson-quiz.html

I guess...but I'm with Aurich on this...remakes are boring. If a remake enables someone to own MM (or anything else that might popup) that otherwise couldn't for price reasons, I'm happy for them. I've owned MM and could care less about it. I've played CC/BBB at my friends place, and have no interest in owning them. From my perspective, the only thing that makes BBB interesting is it's rare and cool to look at. Remake 1000's of them, and it's simply a mediocre pinball machine.

I'm just kidding. You can clearly see that the PPS logo feels off and the shirt actually says Chicago Gaming underneath

This exactly.

But it's NOT a premium price for MM, learn the concept. Your own example definition states "for a similar model". A stern nib is not a similar model too MM any more than a Chevy is similar model as a Ferrari. A car in general is 30k, so if Ferrari remakes a 20 year old model for 30k are you are going to claim it's a premium price for a Ferrari? Of course not.

That post was completely self-serving. Rick pretty much through Doug under the bus, took no responsibility and skillfully deflected any ill will away from PPS. If Rick wants to ensure that MMR isn't the only remake to see the light of day, PPS needs to take the reins from CGC - they don't seem to get pinball at all. Sadly, this is becoming more Vacation America and less Williams every day.

Methinks you forgot the smiley face

I don't believe that for a second - pretty sure that was just marketing hot air from Rick. And I think he said there were "plans", not a "contract".

This should all be ironed out by end 2Q.

What a clusterfudge! Thankyou Rick for being honest.

These things sometimes eventually work themselves out ... need to focus on the games right now, then we can push again on this topic.

rick

We had the MMr and MM in the shop at the same time for 4 days while we put Mylar down in the normal wear spots, and moved the slingshot brackets back on the MMr.

The MMr plays a little bit faster.

The shaker on the MMr adds greatly to the game experience.

The sound was clearer on the MMr too.

We played a ton of games on both tables, trying to find differences.

Nothing looks or feels cheap on the MMr, believe me.

After reading all 4 pages I have to conclude that it's impossible for any remake thread to be positive. If we're all honest with ourselves, we want our pins to hold value and hopefully increase in value. Remakes will always be the enemy in a collector community.

Now...with regards to paying for color display. Hard to look past this:

MM's were costing 12-15K
MMR costs 8-9K

Ponying up a bit more shouldn't make people upset.

Mods, please issue a thread eject to Vid. Voices of reason are NOT permitted in MMR threads.

How about we look at it this way:

Most MMr LE customers gave CGC large amounts of cash. CGC then sat on it for, lets see, about 2-3 years? It funded most if not all of this project. Some are still waiting for their games after having paid A LONG TIME AGO!!!!! Im sure they would like to recover the costs of not having their money also.

Id say the cost of that - not having use of that money for 2-3 years & CGC using it instead - should be about equal to the cost of a colour upgrade?

Sounds like a fair deal.

SO without the colour display, what is the LE?

Shaker, trim and plaque? LOL.