The cabinet and playfield are made by the same company that made the original, CCC.

The new cab is stronger/stiffer, because it has a real Plywood bottom, not crapboard like the original.

The circuit boards are different, as is the modern, efficient, power supply.

The clearcoat is better on the MMr playfield.

The MMr cabinet has decals, so that is certainly NOT as good or durable as the original silkscreened cab.

Most of the mechs are exactly the same, but some, like the flippers, are stronger and can now can be software controlled.

The sound is clearer on the MMr.

The LED lights will probably never burn out in your lifetime on the MMr, and no old lamp sockets either.

The display is in color when it boots up, but then it goes to monochromatic mode in gameplay.

Still a few little bugs to iron out, but I've put a ton of plays on it and it is a worthy successor.

Original has coin mechs as standard, MMr doesn't come with coin mechs...but no normal person cares.

And colorization is coming...octoberish and may or may not be free.

Couple things:

Based on pics, the flipper mechs themselves look the same as the original. The software can override EOS readings to drive them harder, but the coil, pawl, bat, base, etc are the same as the original game. The drive electronics are not Fliptronics, but instead use the same drive system the other coils get.

This true, but also eliminates the ability to customize feature lighting. I believe the GI is socketed LEDs and changeable.

Both the cheap speakers, and emulation glitch that is being addressed in a software update, are caveats to this statement.

This is on top of the inability to use a standard DMD, DMD replacement, or color DMD. CGC could leapfrog the original with an awesome color update, but that remains to be seen.

Tx vid1900. Can always count on you for an objective, not subjective, post. Appreciate it. Gratitude to the other thread folks too just discussing/teaching/conversing about the pin. Nobody wants to rain on anyones parade. Just posting and exchanging thoughts is all. Cool thread btw!

There is a header on the CPU daughter board that is an output for a standard DMD. It is clearly marked as DMD and it is the standard pinout. I asked CG about it and they said it would run a DMD. You'd have to run 5v to the DMD if it is LED, or HV if it is a standard DMD, but from what I've been told you could run a regular DMD on MMR.

It would be kinda neat to try a real DMD in a MMR if this is true. Any1 want to try?

You could, but there is zero reason to do it.

I agree. My point was to correct inaccurate information. And to point out that it (probably) could be done. You could probably run a ColorDMD if you run 12v to it.

I have an LED DMD and I've wanted to try it, but my game is on location and I'm not going to spend the time messing with it.

The ramps and wood and mechs are as solid or more solid than the original. From a player's point of view I think the vast majority find it at least as good. There are some minor cosmetic improvements such as LEDs and a shaker motor. Underneath, the electronics are all new. Nobody can know whether they will prove to be more reliable or not yet, but the core of the system is the Beaglebone Black development platform, a very reliable and relatively powerful system that is a proven commodity in many other applications.

Would it know what to do with the signal, though? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you could run an HD source into a DMD and have it displayed in dots. The MMr video output is technically an HD source for the LCD monitor, even if its display appears to be dots. I don't think it would work. It may be capable - but I don't think it would actually work.

Is there a setting to designate the DMD output , or are both display outs always on?

There is a separate header marked DMD with the standard pins that outputs the standard data used by a DMD (I believe). It isn't the data used by the LCD display. That is a different HDMI connector.

No settings in the menu that I've seen, I don't know if the DMD header is always outputting data. It would be fun to mess with but it isn't going to be me doing it anytime soon.

Heck I'll mess with it if I ever get mine. It looks like a standard DMD header, and is labeled as such. Question is if the software is actually dumping dots to it or not.

You can't run a hd signal to a dmd. But, they could be putting standard dmd data out on those pins. That wouldn't be hard to do. I don't know this to be a fact but it's very possible. It would be interesting to hook up a stern led dmd and see if the tearing problem is still there. The output on a real dmd might be fine. Fun experiment.

Unfortunately by the time I saw the header, my game was out of the house and on location. I also didn't have an LED DMD at the time as I do now. If I still had the game at home, I'd try messing with it.

Ty Pez! That is really what interested me since I can understand it. Material appearance...thickness...if it appears robust, I get that stuff and appreciate your feedback! I actually printed yours, vid's and some other guru posts here for future reference. I am an old 8 1/2 by 11 kinda guy lol...have old eyes too so I enlarged the font. Anyway, tx! Someday I hope to understand all the guru talk about coil pulse stuff but that is a ways off for me. I really like the fact that MM was remade. The fact that it was must mean it is worthy and a great game! I do not know how one could dispute that, even without playing it like me. Facts are facts! You MMr and MM owners should be very proud owning this beauty. One day I may be able to join the club Again ty!

yes, i know Kingpin does it. I stated that it does. I'm saying none of the the production games utilize that ability.

Gotcha.

300 should be ignored colorDMD is 400.

I thought the whole point was to get a MM.Now we are rewriting the rules.Why not just design a game with new rules.

The whole premise of a reissue is being washed out with what is being called "minor cosmetic improvements' and now rule changes."LEDS and shaker motors were not in the original game.These were added.Brian Eddy did not design the game for a shaker motor.IMHO only games that the designer wanted one should have a shaker.Especially if you are reissuing a classic.

In guitar world,older, vintage is always better.Not everyone can afford or find one, similar to MM.So Fender and Gibson do reissues.And they build them as close to 1962 or 59 or 65 or whatever AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE.Because they know the customer wants as close to NOS as possible.

If I was buying a reissue anything, thats what I would want.All this other stuff is subjective and up to the individual.

I do not care one iota how close to the original the remake is. I'm in favor of any changes that are improvements. I want a Medeival Madness because it's one of the most fun pinball games ever made, not because of some sad obsession with the past.

(double post)

I was a bit worried about how well the shaker would integrate, now I can't imagine the game without it.

Dont assume I have a "sad" obsession with the past and I won't assume leds and shaker motors are an improvement.
they might be improvements for you,but like I said thats subjective.

Let me say that i was all for remakes as in reissues.You say you wanted an MM.Did you get one?Or did you get a "reimagined" one?

You're not taking into account that games had to meet a budget. MM was an expensive game to make. It's likely there was no more budget for a shaker motor. LEDs weren't available when the game was made. When we first showed Nucore to Larry DeMar have mentioned that they wanted an LCD panel instead of a CRT but at the time it was cost prohibitive.

This would definitely be worth trying, as it would make the original colorDMD available to LE owners if it worked.

As a consumer I don't care what PPS budget is.All I know is i need 8K to buy what is being marketed as a "reissue."

The problem with your argument is that there is no way to know any of the things changed are improvements. Its a completely untested (in the wild, I'm sure they tested internally) platform. Its not like they took a system 9 or 11 game and reproduced with WPC hardware where you know that WC hardware works. No one will know how this hardware will hold up. Hopefully it will do well, but that's to be seen.

You're basically saying I don't care about reality.. just give me what I want.

As a customer, you are not insultated from budgets... because you pay a price, which is tied to budgets, margins, and COGs.

why do you think i said you did? i thought you didn't want a MMR. i was talking about your characterization that people would only want remakes if they were 100% identical to the original, which i think is a faulty premise and doesnt reflect most MMR buyers.

cmon, of course it's a medieval madness. the gameplay is identical. look man, it's a pinball machine, not some mystic platonic ideal. i am interested in owning and playing a super fun pinball machine, and if the new one adds features, awesome.

you misunderstand me. i'm not saying whether or not any particular feature on MMR is an improvement. i'm saying if something is an improvement, then i'm for it (it's a hypothetical). i'm arguing against jackofdiamonds' assertion that any deviation is automatically bad because it is different from the original. i agree that with you that the new system has some unknowns, and that in the abstract not all changes are automatically good.

You missed the point. Maybe Brian didn't have budget for a shaker and would have used one if he did. I'll actually ask him. Secondly, Color LEDs like we have today weren't around back then.

Absolutely.I agree

But I have no control over what PPs does in their budget meetings.All I can do is pay their price.I have no control over their budget and therefore do not concern myself with it.Its not like they are going to change their price based on some kind of input from me/us/pinball community.

It would be cool if you could choose between MM 2.0 or OG when the game boots up...

I meant that its up to the owner.Not necessarily bad.

I just felt that a "reissue" is more or less close to an original.I understand you liking LEDS and Shakers.Im really on the owners side as far as doing whatever you want to your game.

This all started when vid suggested rule changes,which is really taking out of the remake model,IMHO

my bad, i missed that part.

Unplug the shaker or buy a Standard - it doesn't come with it.

LED's fade like incandescent, so it's kind of a non-issue.

The MMr has the exact same rules as the 20 year old MM.

But Rick said that they were now cleared by WMS to be able to write a second set of rules (and maybe Funhouse 2.0 was mentioned?).

The game would dual boot. Old MM or MM 2.0.

Don't buy the LE if you don't want a shaker.

Or if you bought an LE by accident, just turn the shaker off.

BUT, I'm telling you from playing many games of MMr, the shaker adds greatly to the game experience - and you are cheating yourself if you turn it off.

This is not some bootleg "vintage" guitar.

This is a modern version of one of the most beloved games of all time, by one of the greatest designers of all time.

No modern customer wants Williams crappy DiamondPlate clearcoat.

No modern customer wants mono sound.

No modern customer wants a crapboard cabinet bottom.

No modern customer wants a monochromatic DMD.

99% of customers want a shaker - because it's super fun.

95% of customers would want an entire new game option that would allow new ideas, deep rules, better lighting integration and other modern tricks that were unavailable to Eddy 20 years ago.

How cool would it be if PPS brought Eddy in to design the new rules?

This would be awesome (and in general, it'd be awesome if someone could get Eddy back into pinball). That said, I'm not sure MM is the game calling out for a "2.0" version, the gameplay and code are well recognized as some of the best of all time. But for other remakes down the pike, including an alternate "2.0" version (preferably with input from the original designers) could be a significant selling point.

Im in the 1% on the shaker.

Im in the 5% on the rules.I like it as is.

They are made by the same co. that invented them.Not bootleg.If this comparison stood up,PPS would be the bootlegger,since they are not B/W.

None of this matters,I want those who have their games to love them.My point was as a remake, I and only I,would be expecting something closer to an original.

All the things you are suggesting vid,are great for those who want them,but they weren't part of the original game.

This is not good nor bad.Its up to the owner.Its starting to sound like a heavily modded MM.Rather than a straight up remake.IMHO.

That's not a problem at all, is it?

With that crappy decalled cab, good clearcoat and stereo sound, no one is ever going to mistake the MMr for an original.

Sorry.

Time moves on and things change for the better.

I can buy a new "bootleg" Bösendorfer piano, but it won't have ivory keys like the old ones - and that's a good thing.

Do you not see the irony in your post here?

UnEjected!!!!! Fuck yeah!

So id really like to play a MMr when its local to me as Im considering buying one (used....down the road) I wouldn't mind an average condition original if MMr doesn't live up to my expectations.

Hope you all get your free colorization! Something tells me you won't and there will be a bunch of finger pointing by the multiple manufacturers. I want to be wrong on that.

Carpe Diem!

No modern customer wants Stern?

its cool vid!!!!

sorry my tastes are old school
probably because Im old

In my day if you wanted an interactive topper you had to staple the cat to the top of the machine

Sterns are in stereo now (haven't you heard?), and their clearcoats are much better than Williams' DiamondPlate.

For the record. I asked Brian the following question:

So, the question of the day. If you could have put a shaker motor in MM would you have? Were you budget restricted or just didn't think of using one?

His response:

LOL - I did actually have one in the ordinal design for castle hits and the castle being destroyed. BUT I knew it would not make it because of cost. The material cost of a pin was always a battle so you always put a couple things in that would be cool that you knew you could "give up" to appease the money people.

And just for the record I guessed correctly