(Topic ID: 106465)

MMr at expo


By calvin12

4 years ago



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  • 218 posts
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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Erik
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There are 218 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
#151 4 years ago

Played it today (black one). Played fantastic. I think everyone who has one on order will be very happy. My wife and both preferred the play on these games compared to the original in the overflow room. Granted, that one was in major need of a thorough shop job.

#152 4 years ago

Who was the guy describing how the big driver/led board was engineered?

#153 4 years ago

Younger Gent was Doug.. Not sure and didn't ask. who they actually work for and or with..

Great talking to both.. Alot of details explained. And he was asking us and others their opinions on what we liked and disliked.

#154 4 years ago

I wasn't a fan of the flipper buttons on the gold trim one in the middle... felt too loose...is that how they are supposed to be?

#155 4 years ago

Yeah sounded like he had some good info. Would have liked a Jared interview with him

#156 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am going to guess next you wil expect it to xome with coin mechs also. What is next?

What??!!??

We're getting no coin mechs?

LOL

I'm over it.

#157 4 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

Who was the guy describing how the big driver/led board was engineered?

Head of chicago gaming I believe. It was indeed Doug Duba.

Post edited by calvin12: verified name

#158 4 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

first thing that struck me was the excellent sound quality. very clear, and healthy bass. noticeable improvement from the original. otherwise it looks like it plays like a MM to me.

When I first read this quote before watching the video I honestly thought to myself how in the world would you hear a difference without being in front of the actual machine. Wow! I was wrong. Voice sample was very clear.

17
#159 4 years ago
Quoted from Kkuoppamaki:

Can we get more reviews on game play and general feedback on MMR, would love to hear more about it.

I played a couple games on the gold one and 5 or 6 on the black one. The black one seemed to have slightly stronger flippers...but since the strength is adjustable, they could have been set differently. When talking about flipper strength, I always feel like flipper strength at these shows is slightly lower than at home...probably due to all the games being on a circuit. Hobbit was a bit weak, AMH was a bit weak... almost everything's a bit weak....anyway back to MMr, the black one played really snappy so maybe they cranked up the settings on that one. Anyway - I had one of the best MMr games I'd ever had - was going combo crazy, destroying castles, stacking multiballs....this game IS MM....but it looks better than any MM I have ever played. I think they did a great job with the LEDs - they're warm white, so you don't really feel like they're LEDs....just really crisp & bright light. On most orig MMs, I barely noticed the damsel lighting up...she's crystal clear on this one. The subtle fade on them is great & gives them that incandescent vibe. Really vibrant flasher FX behind the translite.

As for the display, I noticed the slight tearing, but overall I think the displays look really nice. They seem brighter & have better black levels than ColorDMD - the colors are really vibrant - so when the game finally gets the full color treatment, I think it will look killer.

I think the trim looked nice on all games - still happy with my decision to go gold. Maybe I'm in the minority or maybe I'm the only one being vocal about it -but I think it looks great. It really makes the game pop, IMO...frames the playfield nicely. My only complaint is that I wish the hinges were gold too...but I'll live.

Oh yeah - SHAKER and sound. Yes, it's a loud show, so I can't really confirm if the game is superior in sound to the original, but it was very clear and full of bass. The shaker is awesome. THUMP THUMP when the Trolls pop up. BOOM BOOM BO-BO-BOOOOM RUMMBLE when the castle is destroyed. BAM when the catapult fires. Very nicely choreographed.

I'm impressed and I think anyone who bought one will be thrilled. You're going to have a brand new MM!!!

#160 4 years ago

I was able to put in a couple of games on the black trim example, and one good game on the gold trim example. More importantly the nice gentleman that was involved in the game design gave us a tour of the underside of the playfield on the gold one. I can attest that Chicago Coin is passionate about making this game for everyone, you could tell by how excited this fella was about describing some of the engineering that went into it (sorry, I didn't get this person's name but he was very friendly, older gentleman with a pony tail).

I noticed screen tearing issue that others have pointed out, but as a whole I have to admit I had fun playing the game with my friends that were there with me. Was the game so nice/perfect/superior to my original that I feel the need to trade mine for one of these? No. But overall I think folks will be satisfied with their purchase. I will say that I believe a freshly shopped original WPC-95 game has snappier flippers than these two examples, but I also will admit I was able to make both ramp shots many times over on MMr.

Artwork I prefer an original over these (except for the playfield artwork which looked great on these new ones). Part of that is I am a fan of original silkscreen cabinets over decals. And also I can't really describe technically what I didn't like about the translight except to say it didn't look to me as vivid or sharp as an original. That could be an LED backlighting issue which I just am not a fan of on any game.

I also noticed one thing I didn't see anyone mention. While playing the black trim example I noticed that when you hit the flipper button to change the lit lanes there was a noticeable delay before the blinking light would react. That game was doing the incandescent fade setting thing, maybe it is related to that? In any event as much of a fan of incandescent bulbs as I am, if that happens all the time on that setting I would (personally) turn off that feature to avoid that issue if I owned one of these games.

Noticeable improvements were the sound quality on these new machines, in particular the shaker motor integration. Color me jealous in that area for sure. I also thought the finish details on the cabinets themselves was very nice, especially the black painted areas around where the translight mounts into the backbox.

All indications at the show were that these games would start to be built next month. I hope everyone that has one on order is happy with their purchase.

#161 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm impressed and I think anyone who bought one will be thrilled.

I needed a virtual pat on the back after reading so many contrarian views. Enjoy your MMR

#162 4 years ago

Thanks so much for the updates.

#163 4 years ago

I played a game on the stainless one. The flippers were perhaps a tad weak, but other than that I had no real complaints. It felt like an MM. The inserts aren't exactly like the ones on an original MM. They had a different textured pattern to them, but this is a minor niggle, as they still looked great. The people who have one on order will be very happy.

#164 4 years ago
Quoted from 1967Firebird:

Thanks so much for the updates.

have to ask...
you have a convertible ?

#165 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

have to ask...
you have a convertable ?

Yes my first car also.

#166 4 years ago
Quoted from 1967Firebird:

Yes my first car also.

(off topic --- sorry folks)

i had an '85 black firebird (NIB)... total knight rider.
always wanted a 69 black convertible. too nice!

#167 4 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

I was able to put in a couple of games on the black trim example, and one good game on the gold trim example. More importantly the nice gentleman that was involved in the game design gave us a tour of the underside of the playfield on the gold one. I can attest that Chicago Coin is passionate about making this game for everyone, you could tell by how excited this fella was about describing some of the engineering that went into it (sorry, I didn't get this person's name but he was very friendly, older gentleman with a pony tail).
I noticed screen tearing issue that others have pointed out, but as a whole I have to admit I had fun playing the game with my friends that were there with me. Was the game so nice/perfect/superior to my original that I feel the need to trade mine for one of these? No. But overall I think folks will be satisfied with their purchase. I will say that I believe a freshly shopped original WPC-95 game has snappier flippers than these two examples, but I also will admit I was able to make both ramp shots many times over on MMr.
Artwork I prefer an original over these (except for the playfield artwork which looked great on these new ones). Part of that is I am a fan of original silkscreen cabinets over decals. And also I can't really describe technically what I didn't like about the translight except to say it didn't look to me as vivid or sharp as an original. That could be an LED backlighting issue which I just am not a fan of on any game.
I also noticed one thing I didn't see anyone mention. While playing the black trim example I noticed that when you hit the flipper button to change the lit lanes there was a noticeable delay before the blinking light would react. That game was doing the incandescent fade setting thing, maybe it is related to that? In any event as much of a fan of incandescent bulbs as I am, if that happens all the time on that setting I would (personally) turn off that feature to avoid that issue if I owned one of these games.
Noticeable improvements were the sound quality on these new machines, in particular the shaker motor integration. Color me jealous in that area for sure. I also thought the finish details on the cabinets themselves was very nice, especially the black painted areas around where the translight mounts into the backbox.
All indications at the show were that these games would start to be built next month. I hope everyone that has one on order is happy with their purchase.

I saw the lighting delay and thought I might have been imagining it. I didn't want to say anything until I looked at my video

#168 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

I didn't want to say anything until I looked at my video

...that or be labeled a troll. The new way to discredit and make someone a pariah pinside style.

#169 4 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

And also I can't really describe technically what I didn't like about the translight except to say it didn't look to me as vivid or sharp as an original.

The translites look like inkjet prints. If you had a chance to get up close to one and look at it closely you could see the dithering pattern that gives it that look (what I did). They're just not as vivid as an RGB photographic translite (that's the process I use for my translites). The colors aren't as rich and they wash out slightly more from the lighting, and the details aren't going to be quite as sharp.

It's far from a deal killer, but that's probably why you were seeing that.

I thought the LED insert lighting looked great. I normally prefer a cool white under white inserts, but I thought the warm white felt good, like a modern not to the original look.

My only other beef was the DMD screen tearing. I found it distracting, I'd like to see them address it. I don't see tearing like that on my ColorDMD.

#170 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

The translites look like inkjet prints. If you had a chance to get up close to one and look at it closely you could see the dithering pattern that gives it that look (what I did). They're just not as vivid as an RGB photographic translite (that's the process I use for my translites). The colors aren't as rich and they wash out slightly more from the lighting, and the details aren't going to be quite as sharp.
It's far from a deal killer, but that's probably why you were seeing that.
I thought the LED insert lighting looked great. I normally prefer a cool white under white inserts, but I thought the warm white felt good, like a modern not to the original look.
My only other beef was the DMD screen tearing. I found it distracting, I'd like to see them address it. I don't see tearing like that on my ColorDMD.

So do you think it would be a good idea to buy a MM translate from BAA to replace the stock one or will the BAA ones be the same since they are the ones making MMR?

#171 4 years ago

For $8k, I wouldn't expect a lower quality translite.

#172 4 years ago

Thanks for all the reviews, dispite minor teething problems sounds like MMR is solid gold

#173 4 years ago

#translitegate !!!!!

#174 4 years ago

I was fortunate enough to get in on closed time and play. As I began I noticed and made the coment to the gents setting up that it felt more like a stern than a Williams in the flipper feel. They opened the door got into the adjustments and turned up the flipper strength. It made a big difference. I have never owned a MM but own plenty of B/W title and was satisfied with the feel after this. I can say that I was quite disappointed that PPS pulled the games out early. When the hall reopened at 11 pm they were gone. JJP and Stern stuck it out.

#175 4 years ago

Thanks for all the updates!! Nice to hear they listened to pinsiders and tweaked the game on the spot. One day I will get one of these in my collection I hope.

#176 4 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

I was fortunate enough to get in on closed time and play. As I began I noticed and made the coment to the gents setting up that it felt more like a stern than a Williams in the flipper feel. They opened the door got into the adjustments and turned up the flipper strength. It made a big difference. I have never owned a MM but own plenty of B/W title and was satisfied with the feel after this. I can say that I was quite disappointed that PPS pulled the games out early. When the hall reopened at 11 pm they were gone. JJP and Stern stuck it out.

Im curious why they didnt have it turned up from the get go if everyone was complaining? Or maybe no one complained until you did. I guess we'll never know...

-3
#177 4 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

I was fortunate enough to get in on closed time and play. As I began I noticed and made the coment to the gents setting up that it felt more like a stern than a Williams in the flipper feel. They opened the door got into the adjustments and turned up the flipper strength. It made a big difference. I have never owned a MM but own plenty of B/W title and was satisfied with the feel after this. I can say that I was quite disappointed that PPS pulled the games out early. When the hall reopened at 11 pm they were gone. JJP and Stern stuck it out.

The thing is this should not be necessary to even be adjustable.

#178 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

The thing is this should not be necessary to even be adjustable.

disgree. there is no downside to it being adjustable.

#179 4 years ago

I didn't say it's a negative to be adjustable, just that it should not be needed. How long have flippers been on pins and not adjustable beside high and low tap which isn't flipper specific?

#180 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

The thing is this should not be necessary to even be adjustable.

Friend of mine who is a better player than me likes to have relatively weak flippers so that only a perfect shot can make a ramp. You learn to aim then!

Having the possibility to switch from normal to strong or weak makes sense.

#181 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

I didn't say it's a negative to be adjustable, just that it should not be needed. How long have flippers been on pins and not adjustable beside high and low tap which isn't flipper specific?

sure, and people have been complaining about flipper strength forever. this adds a way to adjust it for individual taste.

#182 4 years ago

Flippers at shows always feel weak to me. I think all those machines sucking up sweet electrical juice at the same has to have an effect. I wouldn't even give it two thoughts. Everyone worried about WOZ at first too, was a non issue.

#183 4 years ago

The point is games are actually designed to play in a certain way. The strength of the flippers is designed into how the ramps and shots are built. Putting that much variability into it just means people get lazy and rather than keeping the flippers in good shape they just turn up the power if they can't make a shot. Its like dumbing down a video game because you aren't that good. Play the game the way the designer intended. There are games, like white water, that specifically use different coils on each flipper.

#184 4 years ago

True, but a few volts in the outlet either way can make a difference as well. Stern's, Sega's, DE's have adjustments for solenoid strength. This is nothing new.

Quoted from calvin12:

The point is games are actually designed to play in a certain way. The strength of the flippers is designed into how the ramps and shots are built. Putting that much variability into it just means people get lazy and rather than keeping the flippers in good shape they just turn up the power if they can't make a shot. Its like dumbing down a video game because you aren't that good. Play the game the way the designer intended. There are games, like White Water, that specifically use different coils on each flipper.

#185 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

The point is games are actually designed to play in a certain way. The strength of the flippers is designed into how the ramps and shots are built.

but there has always been wide variability between examples of games regarding the strength of the flippers. maybe out of the box every original MM played pretty much the same, but after a short while they all diverge. plus people replace flipper coils with different strengths to suit their preferences anyway.

Quoted from calvin12:

Putting that much variability into it just means people get lazy and rather than keeping the flippers in good shape they just turn up the power if they can't make a shot. Its like dumbing down a video game because you aren't that good. Play the game the way the designer intended.

i think you are putting way too much stock in the level of precision and consistency from game to game. every game plays a little bit differently no matter how often you replace the flipper coils. some will be freshly waxed, some won't. some will be 6.5 degrees, some will be 6.7. some kickouts will be easily catchable, others will be a little wild, and this is all on perfectly maintained machines. I've never heard of a pinball machine that didn't need periodic adjustments from time to time, and when people adjust them, they are going by their own preferences. Steve Ritchie doesn't appear out of thin air and whisper instructions in their ear (although that would be cool).

#186 4 years ago

There was concern that there would be power issues .Not on the machines on the supply cords, I witnessed this conversation .
I would also tend to believe that anyone bringing their new product into this type of environment would use caution . These pins were fresh off the stern line, not prototypes, played continuously and they preformed well as far as I could tell. If you were the captain would you run your new ship at warp speed for 3-4 continuous days(sorry for the nerd analogy)

#187 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

The thing is this should not be necessary to even be adjustable.

Again ,my assumption, Although these pins replicate past machines but they are using modern products .I am not saying this to slam anyone but lets be realistic ,what product that we use today is as robust as that of yesteryear. Voltage usage, requirements and ability's are totally different today.
Go pick up an alternator in a 2014 Cadillac and one from a Cadillac from 1986 Ill throw money on which one you can hold up longer.

#188 4 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

Go pick up an alternator in a 2014 Cadillac and one from a Cadillac from 1986 Ill throw money on which one you can hold up longer.

i'm sorry, no. I owned an '85 Eldorado and it was full of total garbage components. i replaced the alternator, starter motor, radiator, the vacuum system never worked right, the engine was under lubricated and underpowered. the engine blew up while it was still under warranty, and the replacement engine blew up later on too (and it's not like i was driving like a banshee - the thing did 0 to 60 in about 14 seconds, despite being a V8). GM could not engineer its way out of a paper bag in those days. i'd take any arbitrary 2014 Cadillac part over any mid-80s part 100 times out of 100.

the 4.5 and 4.9 engines were pretty good, though, and the original northstar was absurdly powerful for front wheel drive. but the 80s were dark, dark days for american auto engineering.

#189 4 years ago

I didn't say it was bad, just that it shouldn't be necessary. Sega games had adjustment, people also didn't really like the flippers There is a reason that most people say b/w had the best flippers. I know the black game on Saturday was set at medium strength and +3. I don't know what the other 2 were set at. There are at least 3 power levels, and each has the ability to be adjusted up or down from there. I had no complaints about the flippers. My only realquestionare build quality with the issues that were seen at expo, but those games were full production parts but still built on essentially a test line. They are still working on getting the line designed and qc. I can only assume these minor issues will be fixed through assembly training as they were strictly production errors. I need to contact them I was asked if I'd be willing to help test at times.

#190 4 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

i'm sorry, no. I owned an '85 Eldorado and it was full of total garbage components. i replaced the alternator, starter motor, radiator, the vacuum system never worked right, the engine was under lubricated and underpowered. the engine blew up while it was still under warranty, and the replacement engine blew up later on too (and it's not like i was driving like a banshee - the thing did 0 to 60 in about 14 seconds, despite being a V8). GM could not engineer its way out of a paper bag in those days. i'd take any arbitrary 2014 Cadillac part over any mid-80s part 100 times out of 100.
the 4.5 and 4.9 engines were pretty good, though, and the original northstar was absurdly powerful for front wheel drive. but the 80s were dark, dark days for american auto engineering.

Wow, do you take thing literally That was a broad example. Substitute Maytag washer in place of Cadillac .

#191 4 years ago

Spared No Expense.jpg
#192 4 years ago

Oh looking back at the pics, the front decals are still way off.

#193 4 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

Steve Ritchie doesn't appear out of thin air and whisper instructions in their ear (although that would be cool).

Now that would be a Stern LE worth spending money on!

#194 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

Oh looking back at the pics, the front decals are still way off.

I noticed that too, but forgot about it.

I'm not trying to start rumors, but I thought there was still supposed to be some easter eggs for MMR to be revealed once the game ships?

Does anyone think it's possible that we will be able to change the color of the LEDs under the inserts?

That would be perfect.

Any other guesses on what the remaining easter eggs could be? We know it's not an invisiglass type product as that's being sold separately.

#195 4 years ago
Quoted from hardware:

Does anyone think it's possible that we will be able to change the color of the LEDs under the inserts?
That would be perfect.

The possibility will be in direct relationship to your ability to solder surface mount components. And remember there are 3 you will need to do for each insert.

I honestly would think the answer is "no" but I've learned to never underestimate the determined pinball collector with either money or time to burn.

#196 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

The translites look like inkjet prints. If you had a chance to get up close to one and look at it closely you could see the dithering pattern that gives it that look (what I did). They're just not as vivid as an RGB photographic translite (that's the process I use for my translites). The colors aren't as rich and they wash out slightly more from the lighting, and the details aren't going to be quite as sharp.
It's far from a deal killer, but that's probably why you were seeing that.
I thought the LED insert lighting looked great. I normally prefer a cool white under white inserts, but I thought the warm white felt good, like a modern not to the original look.
My only other beef was the DMD screen tearing. I found it distracting, I'd like to see them address it. I don't see tearing like that on my ColorDMD.

I guess Rick changed his mind?

PPS said:
as for translites - they will be translites - will not be printed using our process. Next Gen are 'one at a time', which is great for our market which is low volume. In this market, it's 1000 at a time, which allows there to be a large run which is more suited to a high res process, etc. They will of course be high quality, etc. I also would guess that we some people will in addition purchase a Next Gen one to get the 'original' williams logo, etc on them if they want to 'clone' them closer to a fully original MM.

#197 4 years ago

I wish PPS had some amazing surprises in store for the LE buyers, to really make the difference between those and the Pro's.

#198 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

I wish PPS had some amazing surprises in store for the LE buyers, to really make the difference between those and the Pro's.

There is no "Pro", that's a Stern concept of games with less features. LE buyers get choice of color trim, a shaker, and a thicker cabinet that's fully painted. What else could be added to "really make a difference"?

#199 4 years ago

Really interesting that Tiki bailed on the thread when it became clear that leveled properly, the game rocked, and that even some vocal critics over the months had positive reports.

Not surprising though. Just doing what he can, leaving it all out on the field in the top of the ninth before MMr is finally delivered and hits the walk off that sends tiki, defeated, to the showers.

But if anyone wants to take Tikis advice, just go get yourself a nice original routed MM for $8k. Then spend a grand on a new playfield, mess with it for hours on end to get it to fit (and probably screw it up in the process) OR pay a professional another few hundred bucks to get all the holes right and the fit right. Then reinstall all your old dirty mechs and wiring. OR, replace them all with new (can't even imagine what that would cost) and put it all together! Yay! fun!! You now have an ORIGINAL Medieval Madness! For only a couple thousand dollars more then a brand new one.

Let's DANCE!

#200 4 years ago

I just had to get most of my 90's dmd games boards fixed.... F old crap...

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