(Topic ID: 107128)

MMr - $5500 MSRP?


By LordCrom

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 187 posts
  • 91 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by scasey
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

aliens.jpg
Coin_Mech_SBA.JPG
LN-862.jpg
Bullshit_Amplifier_Detector.gif
money-water-1.jpg
images-139.jpeg
dancing-the-big-lebowski-jeff-bridges-the-dude.gif
1281999673_5.jpg
tron cupcake.jpg

There are 187 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 5 years ago

bottom line is the market will decide what the FMV is. look, if people decide 8k is rubbish for this machine (or ANY new machine for that matter), you will see them being sold off in the second hand market at a discounted price. people will be all pissed off, pps will lose mad rep, and the next remake will either i) be released at a reasonable price or ii) not happen at all.

-3
#152 5 years ago
Quoted from Glarrownage:

Jalpert, what happened to your post? Someone hack your account and type that out or something? lol

He should really do that to all his posts… they would definitely be more believable!

Quoted from Glarrownage:

I was just hoping to get an answer from Rick.

LOL, keep hope alive my boy!

#153 5 years ago

8k for a pin is just to much IMO. Yes some titles are selling for for that like VE. But why not buy a few nice b games for that kind of money. The nice thing about all these new VE games is it has brought down the price of some really proven winners like TOM, CV,TAF,TZ.... Everyone wants to get so they have to sell something. I just dont have that money and want value.

-2
#154 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Ok, surprise us. Would love to see some real numbers.

Medieval Madness could be had for about $3,000 NIB.

If pps isn't making extraordinary profit selling them for $8,000 they are doing it all wrong.

#155 5 years ago

MMr has already lost around $1,000 prior to delivery. Just look at the FS threads. If you are thinking this machine will appreciate, you are in for the wrong reason. The guys saying they are buyers at $6,500 look like they won't have to wait long.

This is a first , right? We have never seen one drop in value prior to delivery have we? If refunds had been readily available for those guys, this would not have happened. It would be holding steady until they are unboxed.

#156 5 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Not to you but to HEP guys yes… sorry.
You guys stick with your $8000 remakes and I'll stick with the HEP's.

Different storks for different dorks.

#157 5 years ago
Quoted from TVP:

Medieval Madness could be had for about $3,000 NIB.
If pps isn't making extraordinary profit selling them for $8,000 they are doing it all wrong.

I know, I bought mine in 1997.

But that figure is irrelevant. MMr was always going to be the most expensive because the development cost of the platform had to be capitalized. Rumor has it that the price was going to be less than $8k, but PPS clearly priced MMr correctly at announce given how quickly they sold out.

In theory I agree with your premise, which is why I've said that for future PPS remakes they need to be in the $4k-$6k range to have a reasonable run. Obviously can't know how profitable these would be, but I'm going to presume they would have a higher margin than Stern games.

#158 5 years ago

I remember reading many posts about the rumor being the game was coming out at 6K. Now mind you that was before the Stern partnership and rumors.
Then all the brainiac pinsiders started posting how they would pay 8-9 or even 10k for the game.
To this day I still believe the current price was driven up right here. We crapped in our bed and now get to lay in it.

#159 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

I remember reading many posts about the rumor being the game was coming out at 6K. Now mind you that was before the Stern partnership and rumors.
Then all the brainiac pinsiders started posting how they would pay 8-9 or even 10k for the game.
To this day I still believe the current price was driven up right here. We crapped in our bed and now get to lay in it.

As the saying goes, talk is cheap. The fact that JJP and Stern were selling plenty of new LEs at $7-$9k and used Tron LEs and original MM's, AFM's and MB's were going for $10-15k probably had a lot more to do with it than chatter on Pinside.

#160 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

I still believe the current price was driven up right here.

I fully agree with you! I used to shudder when I would read comments about how much people were willing to pay, and I knew those comments would inflate the price! We reap what we sew!

#161 5 years ago
Quoted from TVP:

Medieval Madness could be had for about $3,000 NIB.
If pps isn't making extraordinary profit selling them for $8,000 they are doing it all wrong.

You do realize that was 17 years ago. Prices go up.

#162 5 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

You do realize that was 17 years ago. Prices go up.

Sure, adjusted for inflation your NIB MM would be ~$4,300 today.

#163 5 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

You do realize that was 17 years ago. Prices go up.

Yes, I realize that to recreate the same game after 17 years the price has been inflated by 266%.

However, the cost of goods sold to recreate the same game has not been inflated by 266%. That is the point.

#164 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Sure, adjusted for inflation your NIB MM would be ~$4,300 today.

thats assuming all prices went up at the inflation rate. I paid 84.9 cents/ gallon for gas on 2-13-99 (yes I just looked it up) its $3.50 now. that 4.12 times more. according to that MM should be at least 12K. Overall inflation is not the dame as individual inflation.
New board development. Plywood is more expensive. Labor is way more expensive. Costs of getting the parts in delivery is much more now due to fuel costs and labor costs. 8K is not unreasonable. Its more than I'd pay for the MM remake. but that's me, I have a sweet original. A different game, maybe I'd pay 8k.

#165 5 years ago
Quoted from TVP:

Yes, I realize that to recreate the same game after 17 years the price has been inflated by 266%.
However, the cost of goods sold to recreate the same game has not been inflated by 266%. That is the point.

if components were available and they used the original parts them sure the electronics cost would be down. The wiring costs would more than offset that though since copper is way more now than then. They are using much less copper but had to develop an entire new boardset. That will cost way more than using the old one.
They also have to include the costs of the IPB purchase to get the licensing to even make the game. The cost of the game is way different then the BOM cost.

#166 5 years ago
Quoted from Jackontherocks:

Seems like teen spirit, where is the baby from the Nirvana album in this picture?

Baby was there with the original, but was determined it wasn't needed for the new HUO version, so it was removed late in the game. But folks can add a new baby for about $7 each

#167 5 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

I'd rather they made MM using similar tech as the original then maybe the price could be closer to $5500. Instead they got to add all these mods and jack the price up. I personally don't care about these LED boards and the technology behind that and color DMD and some other bloat they've added to it. I also don't think they needed to offer choices of trim color and the list goes on.

You're making a huge assumption here... reality says newer PCB manufacturing technology is both cheaper and more reliable than replicating old boards. Fewer chips means cheaper manufacturing, and fewer components means fewer opportunities for component failure. LEDs also contribute to less power, and less power means smaller power supply, less heat on boards, under plastics and inserts, and all that combined means a cooler, more efficient, less error prone game... assuming manufacturing QA is as good in both cases.

Today's PCB technology fits in your pocket and runs 24x7 on a tiny rechargeable battery while taking years of abuse. How would those original MM boards hold up under similar circumstances?

#168 5 years ago

Lot's of things have become much more efficient to manufacture than they were 20 years ago.

#169 5 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Not to you but to HEP guys yes… sorry.
You guys stick with your $8000 remakes and I'll stick with the HEP's.

Almost all the parts HEP buys to restore a MM are From Rick who owns Bay AREA AND PPS Duh!!!

#170 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinballholic:

Almost all the parts HEP buys to restore a MM are From Rick who owns Bay AREA AND PPS Duh!!!

You can't be serious!

Who'da thunk it?

Makes me want a HEP MMr!

#171 5 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

You can't be serious!
Who'da thunk it?
Makes me want a HEP MMr!

At least you didn't call him Surely so you get a thumbs up.

LN-862.jpg

#172 5 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Makes me want a HEP MMr!

I've already been contacted by people who want a tricked out MMr, I'm sure HEP has too.

#173 5 years ago

I hope an operator semi local gets one so I can just play. 8k is nuts. My ACDC was a great deal nib but I don't know if Ill ever spend even that much on another. Too many good games for way less.

Edit - just read the no coin mech thing, been behind on news. Guess I likely won't see one on location. Are they purposely discouraging due to licensing?

#174 5 years ago
Quoted from btw75:

The market is inefficient and not a lot is known. I think if manufacturers really had a handle on the elasticity of demand we might of seen a lower price, or even a higher one -whichever option led to then most profit when quantity is considered. PPS had to take a guess and once started they couldn't really change drastically without negative consequences. Case in point, they didn't change pricing but added the 'standard' model which increased supply reducing demand, since this is a luxury good where some of the value is based on the value folks place on exclusivity.

This is only about the third or fourth time I've read a post and thought it was made by someone else with some higher education in economics, well said.

Quoted from gweempose:

I actually found his logic quite sound until I came to the 20,000 part.

There was some validity in his overall point but yeah, that number is pretty high. The point of spreading the fixed costs across more units to keep the average cost per unit down is sound but I think we should assume that the guy running the business has put some thought into this as well.

If the marginal cost (per unit cost) was a smaller component than the fixed costs then it would absolutely make sense to shoot for a lower price point and a higher quantity sold. However since the marginal cost is a fairly high percentage of the average cost for a pinball machine its very risky to do that. If they set a price point based on the assumption spreading the fixed costs across 20000 units and then only sold 5000 despite the low price they would be losing their entire profit margin. Its much more plausible to work in the other direction, lowering prices down the line after the fixed costs have been recovered. You can't go back and ask customers for more money because you didn't end up selling as many units as you expected.

#175 5 years ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:

Edit - just read the no coin mech thing, been behind on news. Guess I likely won't see one on location. Are they purposely discouraging due to licensing?

Yes, you can see one on location. It comes with a standard arcade Happ coin door with coin slots. A coin mech is an internal piece that recognizes a specific currency... it pops in in 2 seconds. The game can be routed.

Coin_Mech_SBA.JPG
#176 5 years ago

Nah, I made a sarcastic post, and deleted it about 5 seconds later. I must have been quoted about 2.5 seconds later

Everyone is fixated on the leg levelers not being setup perfect. LEG LEVELERS.

Quoted from Glarrownage:

Jalpert, what happened to your post? Someone hack your account and type that out or something? lol

-1
#177 5 years ago

I played the MMR at expo and I'd still rather have the real MM over the copy. I'd also like to point out the game isn't that great. I'd rather have AFM anyway. Why no CC remake? Go make a game very few own.

#178 5 years ago
Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

I played the MMR at expo and I'd still rather have the real MM over the copy. I'd also like to point out the game isn't that great. I'd rather have AFM anyway. Why no CC remake? Go make a game very few own.

Well, for a first game makes more sense to make a game everyone wants, not one that few own.

Besides a CC remake without the features of CCC wouldn't sell well at all.

#179 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Nah, I made a sarcastic post, and deleted it about 5 seconds later. I must have been quoted about 2.5 seconds later
Everyone is fixated on the leg levelers not being setup perfect. LEG LEVELERS.

Just making sure, I almost PMed you about it. I only asked because Rick had posted around the same time and I thought I may be able to get a legit response.

#180 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Well, for a first game makes more sense to make a game everyone wants, not one that few own.

Besides a CC remake without the features of CCC wouldn't sell well at all.

Hope you're wrong but you might be right.

#181 5 years ago
Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

I played the MMR at expo and I'd still rather have the real MM over the copy. I'd also like to point out the game isn't that great. I'd rather have AFM anyway. Why no CC remake? Go make a game very few own.

AFM is MM without the toys...castle is more fun than motorized bank and drop target IMO. Catapult is added (cool, better than aliens with epilepsy). Damsel diverter is cool. Castle lock shot / super jackpot is awesome. Trolls are added. No dropping into the annoying SOL hole on MM after EVERY plunge and shot to the bumpers. Deeper rules...by a bit. Better art, sound, and theme (subjective I know). The only thing AFM has on MM is it plays a little faster and ramps are smoother/not as steep.

#182 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

AFM is MM without the toys...castle is more fun than motorized bank and drop target IMO. Catapult is added (cool, better than aliens with epilepsy). Damsel diverter is cool. Castle lock shot / super jackpot is awesome. Trolls are added. No dropping into the annoying SOL hole on MM after EVERY plunge and shot to the bumpers. Deeper rules...by a bit. Better art, sound, and theme (subjective I know). The only thing AFM has on MM is it plays a little faster and ramps are smoother/not as steep.

aliens.jpg
#183 5 years ago
Quoted from EricR:

This is only about the third or fourth time I've read a post and thought it was made by someone else with some higher education in economics, well said.

Guilty. And thanks!

2 months later
#184 5 years ago

Im a new collector, and I have to say, not being used to a lower $ market, the mmr seems like a good deal considering possibility of lower maintenance, but I'd really like to see the inflated prices go down, it would attract me to buy more pins, NEW pins. I'd love to have several new Sterns, Hobbit, TBL, and every startup first-Pin out there, but I simply wont buy them because only a few of us can actually afford to buy them all. Space I've got... Pin-Makers - are you willing to fill the void?

#185 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Yes, you can see one on location. It comes with a standard arcade Happ coin door with coin slots. A coin mech is an internal piece that recognizes a specific currency... it pops in in 2 seconds. The game can be routed.
It is probabaly not a good idea to put in SBA dollar coin mechs as they just aren't that popular. Install the quarter mechs if you want to do some business or stock up on Susan B Dollars and make change.

Sean

Coin_Mech_SBA.JPG 69 KB

#186 5 years ago

The SBA mechs also work with the new Presidential dollar coins being released.

#187 5 years ago

Greed is good.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 999.00
Pinball Machine
Mircoplayfields
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Arcade Upkeep
$ 69.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
€ 8.10
Flipper Parts
Buthamburg
$ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Phoenix, AZ
Trade
Machine - For Trade
San Mateo, CA
$ 16.95
Playfield - Protection
ULEKstore
10,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
San Mateo, CA
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
8,999 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Los Angeles, CA
From: $ 233.10
$ 369.00
Cabinet - Decals
Mircoplayfields
$ 79.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
PinGraffix Pinside Shop
$ 98.00
Playfield - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 130.20
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
PinWoofer
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
€ 9.10
From: $ 19.50
$ 36.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
$ 225.00
Cabinet - Other
FlyLand Designs
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 279.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs
There are 187 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside