Having played a few MMR, a nice original that is set up well, just plays better.

Add me to the list of those that don't like the flipper feel on MMR.

From the movie Tommy Boy.

LTG : )

Isn't that the one where they smashed up a bunch of pinball machines at the end?

Very interesting paradigm!

I've played both original and remake. I own a remake. nuff said.

I've played both original and remake. I own a original. nuff said.

I've owned a HEP restored original and played a remake. nuff said.

I own an original never play a MMr... nuf said...

The nuff saids are rolling now!

Get MMr, new electronics, leds, and its a great game.

Restarted my collection with a MMR LE and did not even consider a old one. Very happy with my choice.

20180427_160028 (resized).jpg

I played an original the day it dropped on location in 1997. nuff said.

Oh and the flippers feel strong at default and too strong at +1 strength. Only original MM I played had very sad flippers so I cannot make a direct comparison. But the other Williams games I had felt about the same or pretty close. Feel a bit different then Sterns flippers but I cant put my finger on exact differemce.

Both are great. I have an MMR-LE and love it.

I made a mistake. I meant Tommy Boy.

LTG : )

Given the choice I would go with the newest one, the remake. I did that with my AFMr.

Buy a nib or huo MMr, the redone dots alone should be the clincher. In a home environment you will have zero issues with a MMr and 20 years of age will on a MM will only cause problems.

MMr for me.
1) it’s new!
2) the higher resolution dmd/lcd is way better than the colorDMD version on the original
3) they play identical
4) MMr has an integrated shaker which I personally love
5) out of the box the speakers do suck on MMr, but that’s an easy fix

Unless your an operator with a bunch of spare parts and want to keep it the same board set as your other games, go with new.

That's funny.

Have you seen how many issues the MMr home users have had already?

In 5 years where will you get a new MPU board if CGC goes under?

Would no replacement boards being available be considered an issue?

-

I mean, I hope the CGC stays in business forever, but much larger, better capitalized companies have gone bankrupt or live on in name only .

MontgomeryWards, Compaq, Wang, Kodak, Schwinn, CircuitCity, Bridgeport, Craftsman....

So glad Bally and Williams are still in business making pinball games

I think this is a pretty big comment - I want the bigger screen so I am waiting till that comes out. I am surprised this statement does not get more comments from people.

MMR is the only machine that I own (Which will also be the only machine I ever own...), but don't think that I am biased. I would recommend MMR if you prefer longevity, but like you said in your original post, you like the original games. I can completely agree with that. For awhile, I considered getting a Tales of the Arabian Nights, but chose Medieval Madness over it. Anyways, enjoy whatever game you choose!

You can add Gibson to that list now too

The hobby is resourceful enough that if cgc went under we would still get boards.

I saw that, but I bet the plan is to scrape off all the junk brands, and keep the core.

Why did they think they needed to buy Phillips, TEAC, Cakewalk or friggin' CerwinVega ???

What wife is going to let her husband bring a pair of those monster 15" Chinese speakers into the house?

Wife: No.
Man: But honey, I had a pair of CV D9's in my dorm, remember?
Wife: WE don't live in a dorm anymore, remember?

SL15 (resized).jpg

From where?

Remember how long they worked to crack the Capcom instruction set?

The ASIC was fused, so you could not dump the code.

Remember, Capcom is still in business today, and even they could not come up with the source code.

$5,000 was offered to the person who could find a way to dump it, no one ever could.

Heh, heh,
He said wang

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/documenting-the-entire-life-of-a-medieval-madness-remake/page/4#post-4275496
“Documenting entire life of MMR Medieval Madness Remake On Route now 13,899 Plays”. A thread with a great member posting up his NIB MMR experience as a high play route machine.
That's the latest post. The whole thread is a good read.

No matter what you choose, it's a great great game. GL!

Have MMr boards been a problem as far as reliability? The game has been out for 3-4 years now which should be enough time for flaws to reveal themselves like they did with the Stern node boards. They seem to be rock solid but maybe I’m wrong. I can’t recall people complaining about them.

Maybe LTG could give us some insight into how the MMr boards have performed up to this point.

Pinheads are a smart bunch. In the case we need replacement boards at some point, someone will come up with them (and before you bring it up, p2k is a different beast with it’s own issues).

Beat me to it.

How are you going to crack those chips?

The days of simple EPROMs are long gone.

Chips for the last few decades are fused, once the data is written, the fuse is **burnt** and now the data can not be read back.

If you could simply get the data off those PIC chips (and PIC chips are really low end devices), then every servo motor controller would be compromised.

If anyone was able to hack a modern day PIC, then no one would pay $418 to upgrade their MMr display, they would just copy the chip and pass it on to everyone.

Obviously, that can't be done......

s-l300 (resized).jpg

The chip is a different question. How many of these or similar chips have ever gone bad? Any? The Capcom problem was just simply they didn’t have the chips to begin with to make the BBBr...that’s why the production was limited to what it was. These chips are pretty solid and not worth worrying about in our lifetime. Are the BBBr (or any Capcom game owners) worries out their PIC chips? Nope.

PIC chips only rarely go bad; I'd worry more about a board wiping out completely.

Like when your PC power supply toasts your MB and video card.

Some CNC machines run a very specific PC motherboard. All the spares of this board are long gone. The same board is used on industrial embroidery machines too, so 2 industries were both battling for any recycled boards that came up.

The caps on these boards always go, and although it sucks soldering a 7 layer PCB, it's do able at a bench.

But when the power supply smokes those boards, it's game over folks.

The riser card looks for that motherboard. Obviously no one has ever been able to dump the PIC (and it's an older PIC too), to alter the code. The company that created all the BS is long gone from the world.

Just played a original players condition mm tonight. Weak flippers, weaker dmd, weaker sound, sell me again on how great these are.

Yeah sure you could do a hugh end restore but that does not cost 8500 it's much more. So yeah happy with my purchase not worried about cgc or future parts.

MMR by a long ways, unless you are going to go over 9k for a used one.

what brand/model rework station did you get?
been thinking of dabbling, I know they are super expensive. Soon the majority of games will be using primarily surface mount devices, figured it'd be better to start learning now before it's to late. luckily everything that might have needed repair has been warrantied, so I haven't needed it yet.

I have an original, had it for many years. Played MMr and would have bought one if I didn't have an original. Only ever had one issue on mine, the sound board and was able to get it fixed easily and cheaply. Not sure if that would hold the same for MMr. Time will tell.

I own both remakes, the only issue I have with them is the proprietary boards.

they will be impossible to do repairs on unless you have a rework station.
had to replace multiple boards from other manufactures that use primarily SMD under warranty, so I haven't needed repair yet.
Sucks also because the game is down longer while your waiting on the new boards.

very similar to every other manufacture now, except spooky (think they are using p-roc which is at least used for a few other things).

I hope your right and everything will be hunky dory for our lifetime, but I wouldn't put all your eggs in that basket.

That machine may have well over 100,000 plays and is still in service, although probably long overdue for maintenance service. And has probably paid for itself at least twice over. And it's still alive and probably will be for many years to come.

So yeah, nothing really great there.

Metcal M1000

It's not a million dollar one, but I can fix things with it

This is a machine I would like to own in the future as well.
My preference would be an original when the time comes.
If I can find a really nice condition survivor with low plays or alternatively something that was very tastefully and well restored (thats what I would go with).
If not, then the remake it is.

For home use mmr or original full restored

I played mmr and afmr, in home i have originals...it’s diferent touch, prefer Williams/Bally
Mmr have worst materials

For home reparations...better original

A man from Spain speaks better English than the rest of us.

Having had MM and having an MMR now, you’ll probably come out happy either way. I will say that I don’t get the MMR hate some seem to have, and mine plays super nice, but owning an original Williams game somehow feels more legit. The price difference would decide, I couldn’t see playing as much or more for an old MM as for a new one.

Double post.

MMR all the way, its awesome!

I'm sure most of it is people owning the original and not wanting to see it's value drop any further.

I would prefer original as well. Played many of the refmakes and they play differently. Nothing like a nib experience I get that. Has anyone gone from original to refmake , then back to original?.

I’ve done this at TPF the last couple years where there have been multiple copies of both to play and compare and ended up preferring the remakes. Fun game either way.

I’m biased since i have MMr and AFMr and I have been very happy with both games. It might have been nice to own an original but the prices a few years back was too expensive for me to get an original.

I do like having a game with updated electronics and I love the upgraded color kit for the game. I do wish I could have had a choice for lights for the inserts.

I’ve had my MMr for about 20 months now give or take and have no regrets with the decision. It was my first NIB pin and if I could rewind back a few years I would have tried to get a MMr LE.

Comparing a 100K play machine to a 3 year old HUO is a no brainer from a purchasing point of view. Unless you want to cover the cost/time of a decent "overhaul", most will probably say MMR. I have the advantage of owning an original that has been in my house since 1999 or so. It was routed previously but for a 1997 machine and considering its condition not a lot of wear. The game, since I have owned, has been extremely low play and if not forbidden by my wife , I would have sold/traded when MM's could command 10K plus.
This is one game I have never really had any problems with. Not worried about board problems as I know they can be fixed. Not worried about 20 years from
now because it will continue to be low play and I am sure that I can always replace a cap, resistor or diode. The play field will look the same and any scrapes on the cabinet will be from me not age ( I can scrape up a new game as well as an old). I could improve the dots by adding an LCD color DMD and also add a after market shaker.
That being said, it comes down to game play. Not a great player or consider myself a B/W snob, but there does seem to be a difference to me. I prefer the feel of the original but if I did not own such a low play original,I could easily talk my self into a MMR for all the stated reasons.
Now, if I did have a MMR , I would probably sell/trade a lot faster then the original MM. That would only be due to the collector versus player in me.

I don’t think there is that many issues. I’ve had mine for two years - it’s HUO but has been used at a tournament and I’ve had -zero- issues with it. None, nadda, zilch.

Buying pretty much any NIB Pinball today has the risk of the manufacturer going under or even worse the manufacturer that you have no relationship going bust (Proc for example). I have a faulty board on my Stern Star Trek that’s unique and a hundred bucks replacement! I doubt there are many of them around. Original sound boards for MM are impossible to find now. Pinsound works but it’s not perfect and what’s to stop them going bust?

Get the game play the fucking bejeezus out of it and life is good.