(Topic ID: 186561)

MM vs. AFM vs. MB

By Damien

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 200 posts
  • 76 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by dos_reboot
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

2836C0A5-D9F8-4824-A0E4-E5A44B7E4876 (resized).png

There are 200 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
#51 4 years ago

I don't think AFM is that difficult but it is pretty hard to get all the way to the end. You have to defeat all the cities and that is a lot of shots up the middle. I rather the wizard mode be a little difficult to get to otherwise the game can get old real fast. AFM is just fun to play no matter how deep you get into the game and doesn't get frustrating with drains like other games.

I doubt the next remake will be anytime soon. There are only so many games worth doing a remake so I doubt CGC is going to rush through them even if they could. Their games would no doubt be competing against each other if they released them quickly. If you got the cash, I see no problem getting AFMr now, play it for a year or so, and then get the next remake which seems like it would be MB.

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

I think the first game took them a while, but look at how quickly AFM is being produced after it's initial announcement.

I could be wrong but I don't think any production machines have gone in the line. They had MMr samples out for well over a year before any production started (per my memory anyway).

If they get 1,000 AFMr's out by this time next year I'd be very surprised (happy for them, but very surprised).

#53 4 years ago

I'm gonna say AFM > MB > MM.

To me AFM is a lot like playing the guitar: it's easy to pick it up and get started, but quite hard to truly master.

For absolute beginners and non-pinhead game room visitors, it flails about well, with lots of nice flow and shots that feel good.

Once you get an idea of what you're doing, it's challenging without being needlessly brutal.

Can't wait for my LE to show up!

#54 4 years ago

The wheels of the bus go round and round.

More reading for interested parties.
The one in the middle was more entertaining.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/afm-vs-mm
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-afm-and-mm-will-never-be-remade
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-three-mm-af-mb-vote

Just a few of many.
This does not even count the threads from a half a dozen other forums in the past 20 years.
The only thing that changes is the people in the hobby as they come and go through the years.
The reality is quite simple, they are essentially both enjoyable games with nearly identical layouts.
The only difference is MM has more "doo dads" and different theme.
If people do not believe me, ask Brian Eddy, as MM was under development right after AFM was finished to tailcoat the design layout from WMS. Even the design team was the same. This was not a coincidence.

"History doesn't completely repeat itself, but it does certainly rhyme."
- Samuel Clemens

#55 4 years ago

I played both games extensively. AFM is more fun because it has better rules that force you to spread your shots. In MM you keep on shooting the castle over and over and over again because that's where the points are. Occasionally you have to go for the extra ball but that's about it.

#56 4 years ago

MM doesn't have the "one more game" feel to me. After I work to stack my first multiball, it's kinda...Meh.

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from gliebig:

MM doesn't have the "one more game" feel to me. After I work to stack my first multiball, it's kinda...Meh.

MM>AFM, have not played MB yet. AFM is fast because of orbits and a spacious playfield. MM is a second attempt by the same design team and is superior with more features. I think Brian Eddy said he prefers the AFM theme over MM but I think MM is a better game.

#58 4 years ago

There is a reason why so many people ask the question "are Attack From Mars and Medieval Madness too similar?" It's because there are more similarities between these two machine than possibly any other pair of machines in the top 100. For some, the differences are enough to call it a different experience. For some, the similarities are too much.

One other pair of machines that are sometime accused of being similar are Tron and X-men (after mirror-imaging). But I assert that the differences between Tron and X-men are much greater than the differences between Attack From Mars and Medieval Madness.

#59 4 years ago

For some, the layout of Attack From Mars and Medieval Madness are so classic that it is worth getting two machines with very similar layouts. That's certainly a good point.

For me, the summary is that Medieval Madness has more toys and Attack From Mars has more modes.

#60 4 years ago

Lots of games after afm have very similar layout bc it played so well and was well liked due to speed and flow. The fan layout is the preferred layout ....just look at the top pins.....

#61 4 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

Attack From Mars has more modes.

This is factually incorrect.

#62 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

This is factually incorrect.

Might be worth listing all the modes here. I may have this wrong. (I was initially thinking that AFM, for example, had more multiball modes and different functions for left/right orbits.)

#63 4 years ago

I went through ton of comparison when choosing between the two. I had a chance at a MM or an AFM at the same time. I played both games like crazy.

In the end, I went with AFM, but you really can't go wrong with either or both. When I say something is better on AFM, I usually mean by the slightest margin. They're both fantastic games. Here are a few reasons I prefer AFM though:

AFM has a smoother flow to it overall. The trolls, the less reliable ramps, the dodgy Merlin saucer, and the tighter layout cause the game to not play quite as cleanly as AFM does. The 3-bank target on AFM is also much more reliable than the drawbridge.

The jumping aliens are better than the trolls. Hitting each alien in the given time period is a better challenge than dealing with the trolls and they don't leave bumps on the playfield when they're out of play. I like the rules of Martian Multiball better than Troll Madness as well.

Despite a more simple rule set, AFM tends to be better for competition.

MM relies too much on multiballs. There's just too many of them, which in a way contrasts with the physical design. Multiball creates a level of chaos that disrupts the excellent layout. I wish MM was a little more conservative about handing out multiballs.

That said...I freaking love Strobe Multiball. In a dark room, it's one of the coolest effects on a game. I keep my play area pretty dark, so it's always a treat to play.

TZ is my all-time favorite game, but I've always said that if a perfect pinball machine exists, it's Attack From Mars. I think it's the best game ever created.

Quoted from nosro:

There is a reason why so many people ask the question "are Attack From Mars and Medieval Madness too similar?" It's because there are more similarities between these two machine than possibly any other pair of machines in the top 100. For some, the differences are enough to call it a different experience. For some, the similarities are too much.

More similar than Star Trek and Spider-Man? High Speed and The Getaway? Borg's games also tend to be more similar to each other than you get between AFM and MM as well.

#64 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

More similar than Star Trek and Spider-Man? High Speed and The Getaway? Borg's games also tend to be more similar to each other than you get between AFM and MM as well.

Let me make the case:
With Star Trek vs. Spider Man, the layouts are very different and the rules are very different. Due to the larger bash toy, Spiderman has narrower ramps that are more difficult to hit consistently whereas Star Trek has wider left and right ramps. Spiderman has the classic Lyman "hit 3 times" ruleset (not unlike MM or AFM) whereas Star Trek has a mode-based ruleset that requires shot combinations. (I have owned both of these machines in the past.)

High Speed and Getaway are certainly very similar in theme. But the difference in layout between HighSpeed/Getaway is greater than AFM/MM. The stoplight targets are in different locations. High Speed has a single ramp accessed by the upper 3rd flipper whereas Getaway has a single ramp accessed from the right lower flipper. Getaway has modes whereas High Speed is a high-score type of machine. (I have owned both of these machines in the past.)

AFM vs. MM: Both have the same layout of primary shots. From left to right, its Orbit, Ramp, Multiball lock, Bash toy, Saucer, Ramp, Orbit. Both have the Lyman "hit 3 times" ruleset.

I think AFM and MM are both great and most people who like one will like the other, but I certainly believe they are quite similar.

#65 4 years ago

If I could only have one, I'd get MM. It's definitely in my personal top 5 games of all time. I might be alone on this, but I'd rather have ST than AFM and not because I don't like AFM. For me it's the ST theme, and I feel that ST and AFM are very similar in layout/rules.

With MM, I always want to "just one more game" after I drain. Now if my finances were aligned with my dreams, I'd have MM and AFM. Even though the layout is similar to each other, They're both timeless in my opinion.

#66 4 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

Let me make the case:
With Star Trek vs. Spider Man, the layouts are very different and the rules are very different. Due to the larger bash toy, Spiderman has narrower ramps that are more difficult to hit consistently whereas Star Trek has wider left and right ramps. Spiderman has the classic Lyman "hit 3 times" ruleset (not unlike MM or AFM) whereas Star Trek has a mode-based ruleset that requires shot combinations. (I have owned both of these machines in the past.)
High Speed and Getaway are certainly very similar in theme. But the difference in layout between HighSpeed/Getaway is greater than AFM/MM. The stoplight targets are in different locations. High Speed has a single ramp accessed by the upper 3rd flipper whereas Getaway has a single ramp accessed from the right lower flipper. Getaway has modes whereas High Speed is a high-score type of machine. (I have owned both of these machines in the past.)
AFM vs. MM: Both have the same layout of primary shots. From left to right, its Orbit, Ramp, Multiball lock, Bash toy, Saucer, Ramp, Orbit. Both have the Lyman "hit 3 times" ruleset.
I think AFM and MM are both great and most people who like one will like the other, but I certainly believe they are quite similar.

I've never heard anybody claim that Star Trek and Spider-Man had "very different" layouts. And I don't know how you can say that AFM and MM are closer in layout than The Getaway and High Speed...especially after owning them. That's, uh, just not true.

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

I've never heard anybody claim that Star Trek and Spider-Man had "very different" layouts. And I don't know how you can say that AFM and MM are closer in layout than The Getaway and High Speed...especially after owning them. That's, uh, just not true.

I can definitely see how similar Getaway and High Speed are. Heck, they both have the red bubble topper!

But consider this view. This is the description of the layout from left to right:

High Speed: orbit, stoplight target set, ramp entrance from upper flipper, entrance to pop bumpers, stoplight target set, saucer, orbit
Getaway: orbit, ramp entrance from lower right flipper, pop bumper exit, stoplight target set, entrance to pop bumpers / stoplight target set, saucer, orbit
Medieval Madness: Orbit, Ramp, Multiball lock, Bash toy with entrance, Saucer, Ramp, Orbit
Attack From Mars: Orbit, Ramp, Multiball lock, Bash toy with entrance, Saucer, Ramp, Orbit

I think High Speed and Getaway share nearly identical themes, but slightly different layouts and somewhat different rules. Medieval Madness and Attack From Mars have completely different themes, but extremely similar layouts and extremely similar rules.

Eh. None of this matters. I'm just representing the view that MM and AFM are similar. But if you like both of them, go for it! Once one gets engrossed in the game, none of this matters.

This might be the pinball equivalent of a Hollywood sequel. Even though Revenge From Mars is the official sequel to AFM, I would argue that MM is the spiritual sequel to AFM. Everyone loves a good sequel, even the ones who are too snobby to admit it.

#68 4 years ago

Overall, it looks like AFM gets a bit more love than MM.

As a very happy owner of MM, and some who has never played AFM, it's making me very curious to see what I'm missing.

Might have to try to find someone locally that has one, and see if I can get an invite over

#69 4 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Overall, it looks like AFM gets a bit more love than MM.
As a very happy owner of MM, and some who has never played AFM, it's making me very curious to see what I'm missing.
Might have to try to find someone locally that has one, and see if I can get an invite over

Not missing anything. They are both great games, but you have the better one.

#70 4 years ago

Lucky that a few of you will be also be getting r2 , as in both remakes.
Played both titles, enjoy both about the same...

Anyone have both and then surrender one and why?
Indeed, it is hard to choose just one as a longer term keeper!!

#71 4 years ago

Similar or not, Bump for advice on either MMR or AFMR?

#72 4 years ago

I have an AFMr LE and a MMr Standard on order. They are two of the best games ever, which is why they are so highly rated. If I had to choose one I would go for AFMr, particularly the LE with that awesome topper and large screen with high resolution color dots. I love the theme and energy of AFM.

Both games excel in their wonderful use of humor, and the code by Lyman on both is some of the best. Easy to understand but difficult to master. You really can't go wrong with either. It's no coincidence these were the first 2 games to get remade. Get both!

#73 4 years ago

Lucky you! Wish I could swing both now, was leaning AFMr until I had a opportunity at MM again on location a week ago. The flips were a bit weak but still very sweet overall.

#74 4 years ago

Great thread and opinions.

I own MMr and have played AFM and it's very fun. The reason i bought MMr was because it was a blast to play, even when you have a crappy game, i feel the same way about AFM as well.

So good chance i'll end up ordering a AFMr LE as well

1 week later
#75 4 years ago

I think I found a really good analogy for this, but you'll have to be a Guy Ritchie fan to appreciate it.

MM vs. AFM is sort of like comparing Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels to Snatch. Both were created by the same director/designer, both have the same formula (pf layout/plot), and both have similar characters/parts and targets.

And as much as they are the same, they are also distinctively different, and stand firmly on their own. And when you're tasked with trying to pick the better one, you struggle. Because they both offer something different that makes them great, and something very similar that makes them legendary.

And with that said... I'm now considering one hahahahahaha!

#76 4 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

I think I found a really good analogy for this, but you'll have to be a Guy Ritchie fan to appreciate it.

I think you'll find more Steve Ritchie and Mark Ritchie fans here.

#77 4 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

I think I found a really good analogy for this, but you'll have to be a Guy Ritchie fan to appreciate it.
MM vs. AFM is sort of like comparing Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels to Snatch. Both were created by the same director/designer, both have the same formula (pf layout/plot), and both have similar characters/parts and targets.
And as much as they are the same, they are also distinctively different, and stand firmly on their own. And when you're tasked with trying to pick the better one, you struggle. Because they both offer something different that makes them great, and something very similar that makes them legendary.
And with that said... I'm now considering one hahahahahaha!

Which is Snatch and which is Lock Stock?

#78 4 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Which is Snatch and which is Lock Stock?

Snatch is AFM, saucer snatches the cow, and Lock, Stock and barrel are more medieval terms.

#79 4 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Which is Snatch and which is Lock Stock?

Very tough question. I've only played the virtual AFM, so I can't really judge.

But if we're just talking movies, and I have to take one of them with me to an island, it would be Snatch!

2 weeks later
#80 4 years ago

What's the major differences in gameplay, objectives, and rules?

Is one harder than the other to reach wizard mode?

#81 4 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

What's the major differences in gameplay, objectives, and rules?
Is one harder than the other to reach wizard mode?

I find afm more difficult . They have similar rules but afm plays much faster and the center shot is more dangerous imo....

#82 4 years ago

When my LE shows up then I'll have both!

5 months later
#83 3 years ago

So now that I have both games (remakes) and have a decent amount of time on both, I wanted to bring back this thread. Before getting AFM, I was worried that the similarities between the two games would be too much for a small collection (currently 4 games).

However, I feel like I'm just getting another game that I can now call my favourite. They both have many similarities, but I think I agree with many in the discussion, that the differences are greater. Even the subtle differences, like needing to take down the target bank before starting a multiball in AFM, where in MM you want to stack the Madnesses and then start it to bash castles. The story for both is essentially the same, but it's just told differently. I still like the wizard mode in MM more, but getting it in AFM was definitely awesome.

I can't see myself parting with either game, but if I were forced to, I think AFM would end up leaving.

#84 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

So now that I have both games (remakes) and have a decent amount of time on both, I wanted to bring back this thread. Before getting AFM, I was worried that the similarities between the two games would be too much for a small collection (currently 4 games).
However, I feel like I'm just getting another game that I can now call my favourite. They both have many similarities, but I think I agree with many in the discussion, that the differences are greater. Even the subtle differences, like needing to take down the target bank before starting a multiball in AFM, where in MM you want to stack the Madnesses and then start it to bash castles. The story for both is essentially the same, but it's just told differently. I still like the wizard mode in MM more, but getting it in AFM was definitely awesome.
I can't see myself parting with either game, but if I were forced to, I think AFM would end up leaving.

Thanks for the update.

I have owned my AFM for about a decade and my MMR arrived last summer. I haven't beaten MM yet, but recently put up a decent 215 million so am definitely getting close. I think the shallowness of AFM's rules are what pushes it over the top for me. You can walk up to AFM and pop off a quick great game and RTU without seeming to spend half your day doing it. Getting deep in MM just takes so long and if you don't stack your madness MBs you can get screwed. Value of castles is also too heavy compared to AFM. I love them both but will probably own AFM until the bitter end.

#85 3 years ago

Any thoughts on afmclassic vs the premium or le?. Take the topper out of the equation. Worth the etra coin ?

#86 3 years ago

I am interested in the answer too.

#87 3 years ago
Quoted from Ozzy:

Any thoughts on afmclassic vs the premium or le?. Take the topper out of the equation. Worth the etra coin ?

Personally, the additional saucer lights, mirror blades, and green trim sold me. I have not set up my topper yet but that also was a huge selling feature for me.

#88 3 years ago

The LE is out for me. Extra cost and the topper would hit my ceiling for sure.

I was leaning towards classic until the expo.Went with SE and an glad I did. Extra $800. not only only a color screen but larger,better sound,better saucer and lights ,shaker and better warranty if you ever need it. Great game and build quality.
Also can't use topper for woz.

#89 3 years ago

Have/had both together (along with mb) but sold mm last week after 7 months or so and afm has been here for much longer. Just play afm more and i think its more difficult/better code. Afm is faster and flows better also imo......wheres mm felt like a chore most of the time. Mb is the worst of all 3 imo...great theme but code lacks and game gets boreing quickly.

#90 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Have/had both together (along with mb) but sold mm last week after 7 months or so and afm has been here for much longer. Just play afm more and i think its more difficult/better code. Afm is faster and flows better also imo......wheres mm felt like a chore most of the time. Mb is the worst of all 3 imo...great theme but code lacks and game gets boreing quickly.

I'm still not sure exactly what it is about MM that puts it over AFM for me, but maybe it will come to me the longer I play them.

Possibly theme? Possibly code? Possibly the music and call outs?

#91 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

I'm still not sure exactly what it is about MM that puts it over AFM for me, but maybe it will come to me the longer I play them.
Possibly theme? Possibly code? Possibly the music and call outs?

Im not sure... both are similar in nature tho... just perfer afm due to being more brutal and faster.(at least mine is) ....plus i like the theme better.

#92 3 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

BUT Shadow is Brian Eddy's best game.

2836C0A5-D9F8-4824-A0E4-E5A44B7E4876 (resized).png

#93 3 years ago

I think the goals needed to defeat MM are just a lot of wood chopping and AFM, outside of saucer kills, doesn't have that which gives it the edge over MM.

#94 3 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

I think the goals needed to defeat MM are just a lot of wood chopping and AFM, outside of saucer kills, doesn't have that which gives it the edge over MM.

For me, it's that moment when you get Castle Crasher and Battle For The Kingdom is lit. That whole sequence of making all lit shots, then having the Trolls pop up is pre genius, and though I've been to it about 10 times, it always feels like my first. Hands are always sweaty haha!

#95 3 years ago

AFM has always been a better, sleeker machine for me.

#96 3 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Personally, the additional saucer lights, mirror blades, and green trim sold me. I have not set up my topper yet but that also was a huge selling feature for me.

And don't forget the Le is supposed to have a 2yr warantee, as opposed to a 1 yr warantee for the Classic and SE. Not insignificant with all of the technology in there! And the topper is really well done. I would guess if you could purchase it separately it would easily cost $600.

#97 3 years ago
Quoted from sbmania:

And don't forget the Le is supposed to have a 2yr warantee, as opposed to a 1 yr warantee for the Classic and SE. Not insignificant with all of the technology in there! And the topper is really well done. I would guess if you could purchase it separately it would easily cost $600.

I'm completely satisfied with everything except for the clear coat. I noticed significant chipping at the drain and lock hole within the first 100 games. Hence why I connected with Cliffy to get a lock protector designed. It's now available from Cliffy for those interested, but you'll likely have to email him about it.

1 month later
#98 3 years ago

Great night to do a comparison, as I got to BFTK and RTU in back-to-back games.

I still think BFTK is more epic. Feels like a battle. Make you want to take out the KOP. RTU feels more like an objective.

But playing these games so closely together, I do agree with many here that AFM has better flow. When you get into a groove, that game is like butter. Maybe not as smooth as TOM, but pretty damn close.

Good thing I have both, because having to make a decision would be tough!

#99 3 years ago

AFM is better by almost every measure.

#100 3 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

AFM is better by almost every measure.

Agree...never bonded with MM. Owned a beauty and let it go before the remake craze.

snaroff

There are 200 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside