(Topic ID: 74327)

MM prices dropping?


By Pinfactory2000

5 years ago



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  • 138 posts
  • 57 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by ovfdfireman
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 138 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 5 years ago

Why wouldn't they , pretty soon everyone will own 1 . Welcome to the Pin Market (stock market)........ups and downs .........lol

#102 5 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

Come on, you preach this idea all the time. Got news for you, around 2000, you could get anything for around $500 (Heavily routed and beat to piss), but guess what, the market sprung back from that.
Demand will work itself out, one way or another.

Fixed it.

#103 5 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

Got news for you, around 2000, you could get anything for around $500, but guess what, the market sprung back from that.

Yeah, but what was selling NIB in 2000? There weren't any $9k NIB games, that's for sure.

Of course demand will work itself out, totally agree. I just think that the demand has shifted to $6-8k NIB games. MMR for one, but also WOZ, Hobbit, STLE, etc.

There will always be demand for classic 90s pins as long as pinball is alive, hell I want a MB myself, but the value equation has been adjusted, and I just don't see them rising above it now.

#104 5 years ago

All I'm saying is MM is going to go down, and we have seen that, and other's scared dumping their MB/CC/AFM in lieu of this, but if PPS does not make anymore, MM might be only thing affected. I really hope PPS uses MM as a starting point to get their ducks in line for production without all the design hassle, and moves on to new machines with good quality build, but who knows. Even if they did do the likely high priced 3 others, those are the only machines that would drop in value, I don't think it's going to really react with everything, other than hurt Stern sales.

Anyway, the one solid point of this thread is the laughable idea that anyone is going to continue to pay high end restore numbers of a year ago for original MMs.

Wrong! People were buying great stuff, even less than that. A friend of mine said he was constantly finding stuff for under that while travelling through the states for business just after 2000, and not to mention the original container deals from Europe, you know, the good games (not the picked through crap they are left with now), were going super cheap as well.

#105 5 years ago

If someone was selling a nice MB for $4500 right now, even with the slow Xmas market, it would get snatched up right?

Same isn't true already for $8k. Though the time of year might be a factor, hard to say. I think we need to see how a little time and distance from the end of the year, the MMR announcement, etc lets things settle. But once things don't sell for X it's an uphill climb to keep trying to sell them for that. People remember.

I don't see these nice titles crashing or anything, just adjusting down to the new reality, and probably staying there. Obviously the more moves PPS makes the harder it is to predict how it will affect things. Right now there's no MB announcement, it's all ripple effects.

#106 5 years ago

Since everyone says prices are dropping my MM is being sold for $5k cash money!

#107 5 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

Since everyone says prices are dropping my MM is being sold for $5k cash money!

This will go really fast

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from Williampinball:

This will go really fast

only to his wife or another family member for tax/bankrupt reasons only, pretty sure his is a HUO, 5K (cue Tui beer add) yeah right.

#109 5 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

Since everyone says prices are dropping my MM is being sold for $5k cash money!

its the only prudent thing to do..

#110 5 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

Since everyone says prices are dropping my MM is being sold for $5k cash money!

I'm On my way to your house

#111 5 years ago

Way too cheap

#112 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You bought for the right reason.
There are people who are resentful of the MMr.
There are people who are overjoyed about the MMr.
And there are people gloating that the flippers who were sitting on 4 MM lost their pants.

I would fall into category 3 on that one. I have no problems with flippers, but seriously, how greedy do you have to be if you didn't dump your stock 8 months ago when they were going for 15k? If you didn't unload then, your just too damn greedy at that point and deserve to have the game tank. Plus, you wouldn't be a smart business man, as most that know better, know we are in a bubble and it wasn't going to last long.

#113 5 years ago

Who cares! It's a 90's pinball machine that's good but not that good. The new games make it seem outdated so the dropping prices only seem realistic. It is what it is.

#114 5 years ago
Quoted from Williampinball:

Lets get over it ,it will always be a nock off and all ways will be and there will be all ways people that only want the real Williams one

You forgot to say refake. I kid

#115 5 years ago
Quoted from Breadfan:

Who cares! It's a 90's pinball machine that's good but not that good. The new games make it seem outdated so the dropping prices only seem realistic. It is what it is.

+1

#116 5 years ago

bah, who cares at all, either way. Isn't there a new stern we can bitch about instead?

#117 5 years ago
Quoted from FLpinball:

Have been reading these types of threads since the announcement on the MM remake. Have held off commenting but thought it was about time that I added my two cents for whatever its worth. I am an owner of a ground up restored MM that i bought from the GAP(as I believe he is known on this site). It is simply stunning in every way. I bought it for 15k. With that…I bought it for 15k for the same exact reason I bought T2 for $1,500. For the love of the game…nothing more. There is a perception that everyone who buys a high end MM(or any game) for that matter…bought it for the sole purpose of selling it one day for enough profit to retire on. Nothing could be further from the truth in my case and I would venture to say with more than just me. I think it is great that the MM is being redone. It is a magnificent game and IMO worthy of the #1 status it brings. A heart felt congrats to all who can now get one for 8k who maybe could not afford the asking prices of a restored one…or simply had no desire to spend that much regardless if they could afford . What troubles me however is this. There is almost a gloating of sorts from non MM owners that prices have gone down on this machine. A "That will teach you'" attitude. If I am wrong…tell me. Again, I bought MM for the love of pinball…nothing more. Best wishes, Charlie

I also buy games for the love of pinball, but nobody likes to overpay.

You opine that the game is worthy of the #1 status that it brings. If you pay 10X more for MM than T2, It makes sense that you consider the status of the game.

Yes, MM is a magnificent game, but it's still a pinball machine and will eventually get old. It's no more worthy of being #1 than any other game someone loves playing, status aside.

#118 5 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

Yes, MM is a magnificent game, but it's still a pinball machine and will eventually get old. It's no more worthy of being #1 than any other game someone loves playing, status aside.

Agree with the first sentence but not the second.

There are pins that are universally considered better than other pins. Maybe not to one single individual but overall.

It would be VERY difficult to find anyone who thinks "Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball" is superior to MM.

#119 5 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Agree with the first sentence but not the second.
There are pins that are universally considered better than other pins. Maybe not to one single individual but overall.
It would be VERY difficult to find anyone who thinks "Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball" is superior to MM.

If you do there's a bugs available here loo ally for 5000$. Yikes!

#120 5 years ago

To counter stories that prices on MM's have popped and should be $7.5k, what happends if MMr is not exactly the same as MM? Would it suddenly plunge to $5k while the price of a restored MM shoots back to $15k overnight? It could happen, although I am hoping MMR is sucessful. The point is you can speculate all you want, but saying that non-routed MM's or those in above average condition are selling for under is $9k is speculative. Most of those that have sold for less than this were pins off route or average condition pins without mods or quality restoration. Those are more apt to hold the line and continue to hold their value.

The one thing that has me perplexed is that most people will be waiting a year+ to get their machines and yet many express that they expect to see their pin early next year.

Once PPS starts assebling a few games they will discover a number of tweaks are needed to iron out the rough edges. As this period stretches out, some lose patience and start complaining. This results in concern and some people will drop out. This is usually followed by lack of communication by the manufacturere and finally an email is issued that chronicals the delays and promises the fixes are at hand. Then panic sets in and more people jump ship. As the game starts shipping, people start discovering little things that need more tweaking. By now the games that were going to ship 2Q14 are now planned for 3Q15. People become despondent and more drop out. Those that remain committed and eventually receive their games are happy but feel battered. They will rate MMr as 10.0. Those that dropped out becuase of concern or got a bad taste in their mouth either have moved on or bought an original MM and will rate MMr a 1.0. A lot more threads abour MMr will be started and much bs slung before the end. That is until the next pinball story hits, and soon the young kids are asking what was MMr like daddy?

Guess my skepticism is showing tonight.

#124 5 years ago

I, for one, hope they sell bunches of the MM remake, and the whole thing drives prices to a where I can afford either a remake or an original. I would love to see the market saturated or even over saturated with SOME high-quality, playable version of what's probably the best pin ever made.

#125 5 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

To counter stories that prices on MM's have popped and should be $7.5k, what happends if MMr is not exactly the same as MM.....*rest of book omitted*

Holy Chicken-Little-Sky-Is-Falling mentality o_O .....

Maybe PPS will get one thing right over Stern: complete code .

#126 5 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Maybe PPS will get one thing right over Stern: complete code .

I bet stern couldn't even release a remake of MM with completed code, and why would they? I mean, they have to give the masses what they want, and you all have spoken - we buy copious amounts of unfinished games as we enjoy buying incomplete machines and bitching about it on pinside more than buying solid proven complete games still out there and playing them.

#127 5 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

To counter stories that prices on MM's have popped and should be $7.5k, what happends if MMr is not exactly the same as MM? Would it suddenly plunge to $5k while the price of a restored MM shoots back to $15k overnight? It could happen, although I am hoping MMR is sucessful. The point is you can speculate all you want, but saying that non-routed MM's or those in above average condition are selling for under is $9k is speculative. Most of those that have sold for less than this were pins off route or average condition pins without mods or quality restoration. Those are more apt to hold the line and continue to hold their value.
The one thing that has me perplexed is that most people will be waiting a year+ to get their machines and yet many express that they expect to see their pin early next year.
Once PPS starts assebling a few games they will discover a number of tweaks are needed to iron out the rough edges. As this period stretches out, some lose patience and start complaining. This results in concern and some people will drop out. This is usually followed by lack of communication by the manufacturere and finally an email is issued that chronicals the delays and promises the fixes are at hand. Then panic sets in and more people jump ship. As the game starts shipping, people start discovering little things that need more tweaking. By now the games that were going to ship 2Q14 are now planned for 3Q15. People become despondent and more drop out. Those that remain committed and eventually receive their games are happy but feel battered. They will rate MMr as 10.0. Those that dropped out becuase of concern or got a bad taste in their mouth either have moved on or bought an original MM and will rate MMr a 1.0. A lot more threads abour MMr will be started and much bs slung before the end. That is until the next pinball story hits, and soon the young kids are asking what was MMr like daddy?
Guess my skepticism is showing tonight.

Spoken like a true MM owner.! look at it this way if you don't ever sell it, you wont lose any money

#128 5 years ago

What if the MM14 looks, plays and feels exactly like an original? If it's a home run, it's going to be very hard to get even $8k or $7k for MM's that are routed, the ones that were going for $10k - $12k before the annoucement. If MM14 is a home run, it's not unreasonable to see routed, but pretty decent MM's go for $5K or $6K. Why pay $5,500 for a routed and beat MM if there are HUO MM14's on the market for $6,250ish?

Of course, who knows what the HUO will be on MM14, but all this seams reasonable.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

To counter stories that prices on MM's have popped and should be $7.5k, what happends if MMr is not exactly the same as MM? Would it suddenly plunge to $5k while the price of a restored MM shoots back to $15k overnight?

Not true. The first game is scheduled to ship June 30th at the latest. By Ricks estimate it will take about 6 months to build the games. At the very long end of the estimate of time, it's about a year. But on the short end the games should all be shipped by the end of the September which would have over half the games delivered by june 30th. A year+ is exagurating.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

The one thing that has me perplexed is that most people will be waiting a year+ to get their machines and yet many express that they expect to see their pin early next year.

Where do you come up with this shit? Probably the same place you came up with the idea to put the DM handle grips on other games.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Once PPS starts assebling a few games they will discover a number of tweaks are needed to iron out the rough edges. As this period stretches out, some lose patience and start complaining. This results in concern and some people will drop out. This is usually followed by lack of communication by the manufacturere and finally an email is issued that chronicals the delays and promises the fixes are at hand. Then panic sets in and more people jump ship. As the game starts shipping, people start discovering little things that need more tweaking. By now the games that were going to ship 2Q14 are now planned for 3Q15. People become despondent and more drop out. Those that remain committed and eventually receive their games are happy but feel battered. They will rate MMr as 10.0. Those that dropped out becuase of concern or got a bad taste in their mouth either have moved on or bought an original MM and will rate MMr a 1.0. A lot more threads abour MMr will be started and much bs slung before the end. That is until the next pinball story hits, and soon the young kids are asking what was MMr like daddy?

#129 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

What if the MM14 looks, plays and feels exactly like an original? If it's a home run, it's going to be very hard to get even $8k or $7k for MM's that are routed, the ones that were going for $10k - $12k before the annoucement. If MM14 is a home run, it's not unreasonable to see routed, but pretty decent MM's go for $5K or $6K. Why pay $5,500 for a routed and beat MM if there are HUO MM14's on the market for $6,250ish?
Of course, who knows what the HUO will be on MM14, but all this seams reasonable.

The only thing for certain is that everyone has an opinion about future pricing of MM and MMr. At this point everybody's opinion is pure speculation and is zero percent based on fact. It will be interesting to see what pans out,

As to when the game actually comes out, I hope you are not relying on estimates by manufacturer. PPS has given their best guess and it could prove true. But if it goes down like every other big project listed to date - BBB, WOZ, Magic Girl, ZA, Predator, Matrix - it will take much longer than planned. Best guess is to add one year.

And remember this is only pinball, nothing to get worked into a lather about.

#130 5 years ago

Yes, I am relying on PPS estimates. I'm one of those people who trust people based on reputation and logic. Sure, they might be 2 years late for all I know, but I prefer people make mistakes before I convict them of things

I'm not going to explain why MM14 is not like any of those projects you listed.

Buy my best argument, some guy in his workshop on Pinside was able to source all the parts and build an MM from scratch in 3 months. If he can do it in 3, PPS can do 1,000 in 9-12 months with an assembly line. I'm not dumb though, it doesn't mean it'll go down like that.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

I hope you are not relying on estimates by manufacturer. PPS has given their best guess and it could prove true. But if it goes down like every other big project listed to date - BBB, WOZ, Magic Girl, ZA, Predator, Matrix - it will take much longer than planned. Best guess is to add one year.

#131 5 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

. But if it goes down like every other big project listed to date - BBB, WOZ, Magic Girl, ZA, Matrix - it will take much longer than planned.

The difference is that PPS already had a working prototype built months BEFORE the announcement.

Many of the other companies took your money and then went to the drawing board to get started.

#132 5 years ago

on the same token, what if the remake is superior? Then the heavily used ones will tank even more. Goes both ways.

#133 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

on the same token, what if the remake is superior?

Hopefully that's PPS's goal..

#134 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I'm On my way to your house

Shouldve come by and got it since no one popped on it

#135 5 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

Shouldve come by and got it since no one popped on it

I will be in Portland tomorrow

#136 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I will be in Portland tomorrow

Someone bought tz so got the cash i needed. Bummer!

#137 5 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

what happends if MMr is not exactly the same as MM?

Rick already said it has to be, it was a Williams demand.

Barring them not getting made, I would again refer you to my first post. There is no way shape or form IF this is released old ones will be selling at or above the new ones.

Again, if there is anyone that would still do this, please post this and why.

#138 5 years ago

Well we never know what the market will do, if we did......well if I did anyway......I would be sitting on a beach somewhere drinking cervesa's, and I wouldn't be concerned so much about prices.

Only thing I would add is when there is mention of "everyone thinks the market will...."

Keep in mind
everyone = the market
The market = everyone

We don't know what will happen, but it seems logical, that if a new version is released, that functions and plays the same, the older ones would at minimum take a small hit. But only time will tell, then all of the speculators will be either right or wrong.

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