(Topic ID: 122484)

MM / MMR help with balls getting stuck


By PinballHog

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 52 posts
  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by labnip
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 4 years ago

I don't know if this was a problem with the origenal MM, but my ball keeps getting stuck behind the left side of the right troll. Any ideas on how to fix this or is this a flaw in the game that can't be fixed? Thanks for any info.

#2 4 years ago

It shouldn't get stuck. First step would be making sure the playfield is level, side-to-side.

#3 4 years ago

Hi I have the original MM and the balls don't really get stuck look behide the troll where it gets stuck and see why it is getting stuck and go from there ,hope this helps

#4 4 years ago

It is very level. I'll take the glass off tonight and look at it. If anymore ideas please share. I've had to make a few other small adjustments but nothing major (one flipper was off, catapult launched ball was hitting the back left tower of the castle, ball trough adjustment balls somtimes having trouble firing in the shooter lane). Overall the game is playing GREAT!

#5 4 years ago

is it when the troll is up or down or both?

#6 4 years ago

Up only. If the ball comes in behind the right troll slowly, it will stop on the left backside of the right troll.

#7 4 years ago

i had this happen many times over the years on the original one. All on location so i cant say as to how level they were but they played very well except occasionally getting stuck behind one of the trolls. i seem to remember it was the left one though?

#8 4 years ago

The flaw does exist, I can attest to it happening many times on the machine I played on in college. I personally like the game being somewhat dependent on auto-reset or a timeout and being able to use the spot during troll multiballs. But if you do want to fix it, you should understand that traps like that exist to be used and were likely preserved for that reason. The easiest way to hit that spot is to hit it off the castle gate and nudge the table right to cause the ball to fall on the troll.

#9 4 years ago

There's a little flap on the back of the troll carriage that should divert the ball to the left. Maybe compare the two and see if the flap needs to be bent outward a little

#10 4 years ago

can you put a angle on the backside of the assembly that aids the ball left on a slow moving ball?

just a suggestion

#11 4 years ago

Happens all the time on the MM on route near me. Pretty lame and it does happen a lot.

I always felt that the troll head assembly should have had a piece on the back that would set flush with or just above the playfield to prevent it from happening, but I don't think there is.

#12 4 years ago

Ok I adjusted the right troll mount just a little and it fixed the problem with the ball sticking. I'm glad I was under there working on it, because I noticed that one of the hex screws was left off of the left troll mount and the other screws were not tight and one was very loose already. I tightened all of them and replaced the hex screw that was missing. The left troll now just barely touches the rail when it's up. Is that normal? Thanks for all you guys help that's had this game for years!!!

#14 4 years ago

Not sure about the one near me, but a google image search for "medieval madness pinball trolls" shows quite a few touching the rail. The IPDB picture with the raised trolls might be as well, but the image isn't at a great angle for determining that. The MMR promo flyer also makes it look like it's touching the rail, or very close to it.

I'd just roll a couple balls down the wireform at different speeds and make sure they're not catching or hitting the edge of the raised trap door.

Congrats on the new game, by the way!

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHog:

Ok I adjusted the right troll mount just a little and it fixed the problem with the ball sticking. I'm glad I was under there working on it, because I noticed that one of the hex screws was left off of the left troll mount and the other screws were not tight and one was very loose already. I tightened all of them and replaced the hex screw that was missing. The left troll now just barely touches the rail when it's up. Is that normal? Thanks for all you guys help that's had this game for years!!!

i sure hope Stern & others are hearing about these little issues to adjust current/future manufacturing process.

does anyone know if there's a way to get this info to them?

thanks.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

i sure hope Stern & others are hearing about these little issues to adjust current/future manufacturing process.
does anyone know if there's a way to get this info to them?
thanks.

It's hard to track any possible issues on Pinside (soooooo many threads to wade through) but this issue will be pointed out to the proper people immediately. Thanks to everyone for their feedback & support within the community like this. Seems like the end user's problem is fixed but I'll definitely get the message to the factory.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Warbleboopie:

The flaw does exist

It rarely happened on mine but yes it does exist. So much so that it is built into the software on the Pinball Arcade tablet game.

#18 4 years ago

Guise, original MM is way better than remake! This never happens!!!!!111ONEONEONE
Of course this is a troll. It happens to me quite often when I have played them on route.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from Law:

Happens all the time on the MM on route near me. Pretty lame and it does happen a lot.

Same experience here with the local MM on route.

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from CAPnT_PPS:

It's hard to track any possible issues on Pinside (soooooo many threads to wade through) but this issue will be pointed out to the proper people immediately. Thanks to everyone for their feedback & support within the community like this. Seems like the end user's problem is fixed but I'll definitely get the message to the factory.

thanks.
it seems like there were several items to focus on related to "manufacturing":
1. missing screw
2. loose screws
3. parts adjustment to prevent ball getting caught during game play.

this means changes to:
1. the Manufacturing Process itself.
2. the QA testing under the playfield.
3. the QA testing on top of the playfield.

appreciate your help.
i'd much rather add a time-delay to get my pin than have to finish the QA & manufacturing process at home.
i'd definitely like to send a giant thumbs-up to the Beta-Customers who are play testing the game at their homes/locations and providing feedback.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

i sure hope Stern & others are hearing about these little issues to adjust current/future manufacturing process.
does anyone know if there's a way to get this info to them?
thanks.

This is unreasonable. Pinball machines all require adjustment; there's not going to ever be a pinball manufacturing process with aircraft-grade tolerances. It's a mechanical device, it might require adjustments, the factory is not going to put 500 plays on your game to make sure there's no possibility of a stuck ball on your specific one. They do the best they can to find design flaws before the assembly. You also can't tell them on one hand "we want exact original design!" then on the other hand want "no ball hangups".

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

This is unreasonable. Pinball machines all require adjustment; there's not going to ever be a pinball manufacturing process with aircraft-grade tolerances. It's a mechanical device, it might require adjustments, the factory is not going to put 500 plays on your game to make sure there's no possibility of a stuck ball on your specific one. They do the best they can to find design flaws before the assembly. You also can't tell them on one hand "we want exact original design!" then on the other hand want "no ball hangups".

Are you saying it's "unreasonable" to make sure you put all the screws in the machine and that they are tight ?

Break down the set of issues into their smallest problems/defects, and resolve what's causing each issue through improvements in: people, process, policy, tools & governance.

I'll tell you what would be "unreasonable", and that's lumping all problems in as 1 issue and then choosing to ignore it. But, fortunately that's not what the PPS person is saying they're going to do

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from CAPnT_PPS:

It's hard to track any possible issues on Pinside (soooooo many threads to wade through) but this issue will be pointed out to the proper people immediately. Thanks to everyone for their feedback & support within the community like this. Seems like the end user's problem is fixed but I'll definitely get the message to the factory.</blockquot

I thought I fixed the ball sticking behind the right troll but I guess I didn't lol. I was playing again and it stuck twice. I took the glass off again and went into the menu and activated the troll in the up position. I took a ball and let it roll down from the left of Merlin Magic and when it hits the back of the right troll on the left side it gets stuck (just sits there). What is happening there is just enough space between the back of the troll and the hole in the playfield for the troll that the ball gets caught on the lip of the hole and the left back of the troll. If that makes sense lol! If the ball rolls from the back right of the troll to the left it has enough momentum to roll right over the lip.

By the way for the guys that are talking about the games problems, these little things happen in ALL games new & used. They all have to have adjustments. The main thing is the game is playing GREAT!

Anymore ideas on the ball getting stuck would be great. I can bump it to the right one time and the ball falls but I take a chance on tilting. I guess I could always move the tilt warning up, but I would like to find a way to fix the ball from getting stuck. It sounds like many of the originals had the same issue.

Thanks guys!

#24 4 years ago

can you post some pictures ?

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

it's "unreasonable" to make sure you put all the screws in the machine and that they are tight ?

Not at all, I would certainly expect my brand new machine to have most all of the screws installed, and most of the screws that were actually installed to be properly tightened...

Then again, I might have high expectations...

#26 4 years ago

From what others have said in the 90s Williams games needed tweaks when they came in. I would imagine that from time to time a screw may be loose or a nut missing.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

From what others have said in the 90s Williams games needed tweaks when they came in. I would imagine that from time to time a screw may be loose or a nut missing.

i know my screw's loose

#28 4 years ago

Here is a video and a couple of photos.

image-696.jpg image.jpg
#29 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHog:

I'm glad I was under there working on it, because I noticed that one of the hex screws was left off of the left troll mount and the other screws were not tight and one was very loose already. I tightened all of them and replaced the hex screw that was missing.

Sounds like the person who put together my buddy's Xmen Pro also worked on your MM, although you've blown our original theory that you have to order the "LE" model to get the screws turned ALL the way in. Sounds like LEs also get the crap air tools..

#31 4 years ago

Looking at that video, I'd look into whether it's possible to adjust the trolls to sit a slight bit higher when they are up. That might eliminate the small pocket where the ball sits.

But I don't have my game yet, so I'm only speculating!

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from JafCo:

Looking at that video, I'd look into whether it's possible to adjust the trolls to sit a slight bit higher when they are up. That might eliminate the small pocket where the ball sits.
But I don't have my game yet, so I'm only speculating!

Yeah they are sitting as high as they can.

#33 4 years ago

Couldn't you stick something like this in that bit where your finger goes to prevent the ball from getting in there? Or not enough surface to stick something on?

amazon.com link »

#34 4 years ago

Wax one inch above and one the left a little slicker as it surrounding. Also wax that metal flap smooth.
Turn your front-left leg-levellar one 360 up, can make a difference ...

Tweak a little, and in the meantime get to know your new buddy

#35 4 years ago

Yeah a small adhesive bumper looks like it would do the trick.

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from Pablito:

Yeah a small adhesive bumper looks like it would do the trick.

You talking about applying a bumper to the back of the troll? If I do that then I think the ball would get caught on the bumper if the ball was rolling down the back of the troll from right to left.

#37 4 years ago

I still think the divertor flap needs to be bent a little. You have a huge gap between the back of the hole and the flap. The right edge of the flap on mine almost touches the pf and I've never had a hangup there.

I just took the glass off and tried to hang the ball but it was not possible. Also my slope is 7.1 degrees for reference.

Another idea is loosening the assembly bolts and sliding the whole troll assy backwards if possible. Not sure if the holes are oblong though.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

I still think the divertor flap needs to be bent a little. You have a huge gap between the back of the hole and the flap. The right edge of the flap on mine almost touches the pf and I've never had a hangup there.
I just took the glass off and tried to hang the ball but it was not possible. Also my slope is 7.1 degrees for reference.
Another idea is loosening the assembly bolts and sliding the whole troll assy backwards if possible. Not sure if the holes are oblong though.

I did loosen the wood screws and tried to move back a little but there is and insert really close to one of the screws so I really don't want to make a new hole to close to the insert. I'll take the assembly out and bend the back angle piece out a little more and see if that helps. Right now mine is sloped 6.5 degrees like the manual says. Thanks.

#39 4 years ago

Is it like the Gofers (NGG) Theres a screw below the gofers to adjust their height only not the whole assembly .

10
#40 4 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

I still think the divertor flap needs to be bent a little. You have a huge gap between the back of the hole and the flap. The right edge of the flap on mine almost touches the pf and I've never had a hangup there.
I just took the glass off and tried to hang the ball but it was not possible. Also my slope is 7.1 degrees for reference.
Another idea is loosening the assembly bolts and sliding the whole troll assy backwards if possible. Not sure if the holes are oblong though.

Ok I bent the flap in the back out about 1/8 inch and it fixed the problem. Ball will not hang up now. Thanks for all the advise guys. I always like to ask other guys opinions before I just go in and try to fix it. There always somebody that has had the same problem or might have a better idea then me. Thanks again for your time and help! Keep Flipping!

#41 4 years ago

Congrats! Send PPS the bill...

#42 4 years ago

I definitely think the needs tweaks out of the box. Flippers for sure.

#43 4 years ago

For what its worth, I helped a guy set up a brand new in box ACDC which had a number of minor issues which needed adjustment for the game to work properly. From what I recall (this was a year or two ago), the ball would get stuck near the right out lane. As I recall, I had to bend something a bit to get the ball to pass through. It was definitely not playable straight out of the box. There might have been a couple of other tweaks needed as well but I forget what they were.
I suspect many new games require minor adjustments to get them perfect in all respects. When you but a used game, the operator/previous owner has presumably made the adjustments before you got it. That's just part of pinball.

#44 4 years ago

I'm glad that you're enjoying your new MMR. More importantly, I'm happy to hear that you are not afraid to go right ahead and bend something on it to help it play perfectly. Too many people are way too afraid of even nudging a game for fear of hurting it.
These things were made to be played!

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from LEE:

I'm glad that you're enjoying your new MMR. More importantly, I'm happy to hear that you are not afraid to go right ahead and bend something on it to help it play perfectly. Too many people are way too afraid of even nudging a game for fear of hurting it.
These things were made to be played!

Yeah it's a blast. As many of these things I've worked on I'm really not afraid to do anything to them. I just like to do some research and advice before I go bending things lol.

#46 4 years ago

Yeah,It's brand new and you only paid 8 grand for it,may as well do some bending!

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from karmalord:

Yeah,It's brand new and you only paid 8 grand for it,may as well do some bending!

Always been that way.

-2
#48 4 years ago

Spoiler alert: You are going to have to do at least something to your brand new game. It will not be perfect, hardly any NIB game is. It will work better than a JJP game out of the box, but probably not quite a good as a Stern.

I'd set my expectations there so you're not disappointed.

Quoted from labnip:

i'd much rather add a time-delay to get my pin than have to finish the QA & manufacturing process at home.

#49 4 years ago
Quoted from acpinlover12:

Spoiler alert: You are going to have to do at least something to your brand new game. It will not be perfect, hardly any NIB game is. It will work better than a JJP game out of the box, but probably not quite a good as a Stern.
I'd set my expectations there so you're not disappointed.

yep.
...and companies can receive feedback in real-time and make adjustments to manufacturing & QA.
they are not mutually exclusive

#50 4 years ago

Actually what people are saying is that it is an exact replica and this reproduces a known game bug/exploit/annoyance. You can adjust or not, loose screws are bullshit but this nook is not and I will preserve it on my mm le when it comes in a few weeks (hopefully)

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