(Topic ID: 140104)

MM: for the same price, would you buy original or remake?

By nosro

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 363 posts
  • 120 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by CCary
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“For the same price, which would you prefer?”

  • Medieval Madness original in "very good" condition 218 votes
    48%
  • Medieval Madness remake NIB 240 votes
    52%

(458 votes)

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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider xtheblackknightx.
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-9
#227 8 years ago

The future developments of pinball remakes may have severe negative repercussions on the already borderline world of pinball collecting.
I have no problems allowing new collectors an opportunity to own this game at a more affordable price.
I am not trying to make my original that I have owned for over a decade, "worth more".

However, this game no matter how close it may resemble the original in terms of gameplay is NOT a Medieval Madness.
Differences go well beyond more than the boards and LCD screen.

To use an analogy (not the "cargument"), because I have NO need for epeen:
It is like if some third party remade a Chevy 1967 Corvette Stingray without the Chevy logo and included a modern electronic ignition, and a computer controlled engine.
Would you buy the car anyway and stick on a Chevy aftermarket logo to hide it is not a real Chevy out of personal embarrassment?

This is NOT the same as Big Bang Bar with Gene.
That used original technology and parts.
In fact, some people have even already been attempting to try at "reselling" MMRs as originals to unsuspecting, uneducated, new pinball first time owner buyers in attempting to cash cow this Christmas season.

BTW, what happens when the LEDs and other controlled features go bad on this playfield "master board"?
What happens if the board is damaged in a accident or repair of assemblies?
The game is completely toast until corrected.
What happens when this board cannot be replaced as it is SURFACE MOUNTED?
Modularity and simplicity of boards in the modern world is not always a "good thing".
Warranties aside, parts are extremely limited right now.
This is not such the case with WPC95 games other than the audio/visual board based on component availability.
The design is also not well understood yet by most of the community including operators.
I hope that PPS has a long term plan...

If players buyers buy it for game play value, a basic warranty, and have no repair knowledge, do not care if they resell it or not and look at as an expensive toy, great, buy a remake.
Good luck on future parts availability, as this looks a little shaky right now.
If you are a collector, an original.
Pinball collectors want the original for VERY SPECIFIC reasons.
The end answer is simple in either case.

People just need stop trying pawn off a MMR as an original in an attempt to inflate prices, or flip them two years after they buy them and expect more value. The MMR DEVALUED the original as well as the recreation.
Eventually, things will stabilize again, but the market will get hit a second time if PPS remakes MB.

#230 8 years ago
Quoted from ovfdfireman:

not sure you can call it fake when it's licensed by Rolex, approved by Rolex, and built in a Rolex approved factory....then I guess you would just have a genuine Rolex
Re-made or not

All this, but no Rolex logo and trademark?
That does not make a lot of sense.

#267 8 years ago
Quoted from metahugh:

I'm not sure I understand the mentality of my downvoters, what exactly about my statement was incorrect?

It is the nature of PinSide for everyone.
It is a popularity fan contest with many times no substance, just entertainment value.
For example..

I stated clearly I have NO problem with people that wanted a MMR, just do not try to pawn it off as an original, like people already have.

I am not a Bally/Williams snob, I am a collector.
There are MANY types of collectors here, players, collectors only, restorers, tinkers, modders, etc.
What I do know is eventually if you stick around long enough in this hobby, you want to maintain an upgraded collection whether that be new games or HUO/sample older titles, or at least games in good condition that actually work.
I do not have a problem with new technology, as I own a new Stern SAM game again, but it is a Stern not a remake Stern.
Either way the endstate is the same.
Those that play games only and have no interest in collecting/repairing, do not always stick around.
It is something that many "morph" into with time.
To each their own.

As a result of personal observations and examples I have seen this Christmas, I get "downgraded".
It is not supposed to be logical here.

#275 8 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

never will be, nor do I want or need it to be, again the world is not all this way or all that way, things evolve, and pinball is no different than anything else. There are always those who will be left behind.

This is partially why knowledge of machines is being lost. Some new collectors will not touch an EM because they think they are "too complicated" with too many parts, when in actually they are simpler to maintain when restored and played reguarly than many SS. This is considering a router machine not HUO.

#281 8 years ago
Quoted from dung:

Oh no, DECALS! Let's all be pretentious snobs and have TNT throw every B/W title that has been redecaled. Let's burn every game that has a swapped pf that wasn't NOS. Let's chop up every game that is running aftermarket boards. Heck, we can use the ones with remade ramps or plastics as target practice.
The pretentious snobbery exhibited by people worrying over if it has DECALS. Very few MMs have nice original cabinets. How many people see a restored game and turn their nose up because oh sweet baby jesus they used decals to restore it.

Many times no restoration is better than a bad restoration. Do you recall people slapping decals on cabinets when they first started being produced without sanding, which resulted in severe ghosting? This was well over 10 years ago. TAF was notorious. Nothing wrong with being selective.

#296 8 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Why do people obsess over cabinets so much? It's the outer shell that is exposed to the elements - it will eventually get SOME flaw on it....and in any case - the playfield is what really matters. That perfect screened cab might get a mark on it - if you let that drive you nuts, pinball will never be fun. My Monster Bash has a pretty ratty cabinet...but I never bothered replacing the decals cuz they don't detract from the fun I have playing it.

Some people collect, some people play, some people restore, some do all, or a combination.

Collectors want good cabinets.
In fact, they want SUPERB cabinets, not one with "tiger claw" scratches.

Resell value is always higher if you ever decide to part with the game. If this was not true, new side art would never have been manufactured, nor playfields, nor backglasses, nor plastics, and in many cases other parts as well.

Try selling a "nuke bomb" IJ:TBA for $10k if everything else is flawless.

#298 8 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

In my game room, I can see about 6 sides (and 2 of the 6 are my woz) of the 24 available sides of my 12 pins. Not sure I understand all the hubbub about decals vs screen.

Decal peeling in many cases, causes tearing in The long run, if not careful. Many times the quality of screened artwork is just plain better in quality of print anyway.

Once again collector versus player.

#305 8 years ago

Personally, I wish PPS would reconsider remaking TAF next beyond MMR.

The interest is solid, game is a classic, and playfield parts reproduction is good.

Considering the number of blown out playfields despite reproductions, this would continue to be a good decision for collectors, players, and operators. Of course, this requires MMR to be completed first.

Operators continue to route this title successfully, even when they are turning to ash, in terms of condition. They STILL make money.

#310 8 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Are you interested in a TAFr at $8k? I'm guessing not many takers. The big question for me is will the next game be $8k and sell well? If it's AFMr at $8k I think sales will be quite low. If it's MBr, sales will be ok, but not near MMr sales. CCr with updated code I think you sell well at $8k. TAFr at $8k will go over like a lead balloon in my opinion.

Yes, if it was well designed, and I could get spare electronics for backup.
Many originals are completely beat to hell now, unless fully restored.
EVERYTHING else would have to be identical to the original, so it could be be compatible with current spare parts reproductions.
I don't need a fancy ColorDMD and PinSound and other whiz bangs to buy it.
This way the price could be moderated into the lower $7K region.

Interesting perspective, no doubt, regarding other titles.
Consideration for a different posting of speculation.

I disagree with your TAF assessment beyond MMR from observations and here is why:

1) $8K is the current market price for collector quality examples of this machine title, if not MUCH higher.
2) Brand new machines cost nearly $8K, and operators WANT to use them on locations, they make MONEY.
3) This is the #1 machine bought and sold by pinball brokers around the world, they can never keep them in stock for long.
(Of course, this does not mean the person that bought them, keeps them long either, they flip them back when bored, and the process starts all over at a higher price)

The game would be profitable for recreation not just for collectors, but also operators as as means of income, equal if not more so than MMR. I know this, because in OUR area there nearly a dozen still on locations raking in quarters alone.

You might not want to buy it, but new collectors DO.
The market shows the trend.
Like you, I have owned TAF, and in my case twice.

What PPS does is their decision, I wont try to "change the future", just watch TAF continue to rise at ridiculously stupid prices as they have for the past decade.

2 weeks later
#324 8 years ago
Quoted from AJ51:

Best statement I have read on this thread.

This has already been said before (on this thread), people do not listen.

This is a war of "Battle for the Kingdom".
I did not happen with original prototype BBBs and remakes by Gene Cuttingham, different age of collectors I guess. Simply put, PinSide did not exist either.

Most that own one were not battling it out for "rights of the knighthood".
They still are not.
In that case to be completely fair, all BBBs used the same technology and parts anyway (with a few exceptions), and Gene's actually made some improvements.

Things to consider, as I hope everybody that wants a MMr gets one, and can remain patient enough to acquire one.
At this point, people are starting to reverse their orders and buy an original, if available. Time will tell what the final outcome will be and if PPS makes it to a second title.
I am not going to speculate anything to "insight a pitchfork and torch, angry peasant mob riot".

1 month later
#356 8 years ago
Quoted from johngravenews:

However, where are all these minty original MMs?

In collectors hands who bought them from 1997-2005, some NIB, and never "flipped" them. More than some people realize, but between 500-1000, all over the world. Some operators bought 2-8 machines, and kept one in their home.

They are not an "X Files" legend.
Nearly every serious SS (late era) collector owns one, they just got out of dealing with the current market insanity.
I think I personal know at least 15 proper HUO/NIB/HEP/NOS PF replacement and parts in my area alone.
All do not post.

#357 8 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

Exactly.
Some people are into the game.
Some people are into the prestige.

Some people are into pinball history, design, artwork, mechanics, and development.
"Keepers of history and knowledge".
Bally 6803 machines would not have been saved without their expertise for example.

Prestige is a back seat for many, as that boat sailed years ago. People get over it after a number of years, or just sell out, and move on. Most of the largest collectors do not report what they own.

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