I try to stay out of these things since I know I will instantly be accused of being biased. Full disclosure is I own MM. It has a ColorDMD. I colored a game for ColorDMD. I have most of the games discussed for possible remake.

Do I worry about the loss of value? No for two reasons. I plan on dying with them and I bought them for much less anyway. When I bought my MM I saw prices going up so I said I better get one before the price wave got too stupid so I indulged and spend $5,000. To this day it is the most I ever spend on a game. I've been at this longer than most. MB I think was $3,800 and AFM $2,800. I don't think you want to hear about $1,800 TZ and TOTAN for $1,900 or less.

Next, I hate mods. Gluing toys to game and clipping light strips makes me nuts. The rampant use of overdone LEDs hurts my eyes. Yup, I'm old and still enjoy classic Ballys and even some [gasp] EMs. We use to restore games to what the "designer" would have wanted. Like with IJ doing the lost plastic and jackpot backbox lighting. We use to laugh at a guy named Tom Wibble for covering TZ with ever piece of crap he could find. I attribute modern modding to "wibbling" machines. That said when I saw ColorDMD my anti-modding days ended. I said to myself if the designer had this available it would be used.

What do I think of MMr? When I saw the pictures of brand new MM games rolling off an assembly line I got a woody. I didn't care that I owned one for years. I saw something wondrous. When one of my friends got one I did not say "you devalued my game" I said "awesome, glad you got SS and not then baby puke 'gold'".

If you read this far here is my summary of MMr. I am leaving price out because I think both are stupid. I paid less for cars.

Pro:
New - I have bought HUO but never NIB. The less the machine is used the nicer. Who can argue?
Colorization - Looks sweet. Work of art.
Adjustable flipper strength - Mixed emotions, but the good part is you have a feature available if you feel there is an issue.

Con:
Repair - Not only do I know how to work on it and every board, I am surrounded by games I can swap parts with. The "big under board" scares the bejezzus out of me. But time will tell about reliability and support.
Colorization - I have ColorDMDs in 14 games right now. At 2 years per games release I am long dead before I see remakes of what I have now.
Adjustable flipper strength - I don't put the stronger coils in my LOTR. This way when I play people who did I kick their butts.
LEDs - I can put them in where I want but still have incandescent if I want. I choose choice. (old man eyes, remember)
Longevity - Has shown to hold up. Tried and true boardset. Even the playfield wood was harder. While Stern has moved to a distributed system with Spike this is a step back to Vacation America. Possible catastrophe.
Availability - Original, done, no more. MMrs are re-selling now because people say "have it now, don't wait". But when manufacturing and shipping have caught up and market hits saturation what happens? Just like new Stern games too many people think they are buying an investment.

The only winners are people buying this game because they can not have a great game. The MM versus MMr argument is a stupid waste of time. Besides, MMr will always be "wanna-be".

Still waiting for the PopeyeR to come out

Dude, you are old school with me. I remember you in the old RGP, but I was just quieter back then. Not that I'm older I want these damn kids to get off my yard.

I love playing against people who make it easier for themselves. From coil strength to out-lane posts. Then when I get to play the people with wuss setups they look bad even on their own games.

I never use to either. But I also didn't want my games so easy I got sick of them. I have not beaten or gotten to most of the wizard modes on my games in all these years.

Then when I started playing in the leagues I did start to care about my score compared to others. I am happy that we keep score, have winners and losers and not everyone gets a participation trophy.

I am not a great player. But I have gotten better and more consistent because I am playing against others. As with many types of competitive activities you find yourself playing and getting better when you play others better than you. You can push yourself and try to beat you own scores but it is not the same.

I never expected to play competitive. I have played for decades on my own and enjoyed it. But when dragged out of my home arcade just a few years ago a depth was added that I did not know was missing.

And playing league games like Pin-Golf is a whole other new experience. These are the same people you play against in the regular season league. And you are all playing to win. But for some strange reason you are cheering each other on in the group you are in at each "hole".

So in a nutshell, I'm not saying you aren't and "aficionado". I was quite happy playing in my home game room. I'm saying you don't know what you are missing. I didn't until recently. To each their own, but don't knock it until you tried it.

Yes, now I don't drink alone as much

When I have my regular friends of 30+ years over we have beer and a great time. They even play "some" pinball. But it is not the same as getting together with a few dozen like minded people every week. And playing in the NEPL for 8 week leagues gives you a reason and set time. The Sanctum crew is a great bunch of guys to have a beer and play pinball with.

Like I said, I didn't know until I tried it. Is it for everyone? I doubt it. Maybe I will even grow tired. But right now we meet, play, drink a beer, talk new games, do repair work, talk trash, drink a beer ...

Actually this is big to me. The sockets leaves me the choice of easily replaceable or swappable LED or incandescent. I thought the MMr was supposed to be just like the original? I am known to dislike LEDs and this goes well before MMr.

I think you are missing the fact that his joke refers to the fact that the Williams Logo is missing.

Besides, the whole premise of the thread is a bit apples to oranges. How about a pinball sales place goes out of business and is selling off the inventory He has 2 boxes. An NIB Williams MM he found in the back and an MMr. He says they are the same price but you can only buy one. Anyone saying they'd take the MMr is a liar.

Why? An NIB MM is worth more. It has 20 year old boards and technology, why is it worth more? Because it is.

If you didn't get an original when prices were lower you are lucky to have MMr a an option. If you got one a long time ago good for you. If you can afford a HEP MM without thinking about it good for you. I have mine for many years and many thousands less. My friend got his MMr (in Stainless thank God) and we are both happy. The only reason for this thread seems to be to pit owners against each other.

There are a finite number of originals. You think somehow the ability to keep pumping out new ones on demand will somehow make them eventually "worth more" than the originals because you shrink the number of buyers? No, the market has changed, no doubt. The ridiculous rise in the originals has ended. And the probability of other remakes has slowed the rise of those few in the > $8K pool. But it won't turn it upside down.

Most problems that occur on older games have usually been documented and have fixes or bulletproofing. Problems with newer games are still being discovered. And when out of warranty seem like they can be quite expensive. Node boards, light boards on other games.

And now the nib MMr problem might be I just paid $8K for a new game that has a damaged playfield from the slingshot or printing you can't read. As one of the owners of a bad printing said in another thread. He is worried 5 to 10 years from now when he goes to sell it he is going to hear "oh, you have one of those". And he's right. His game is instantly worth less than other MMr games. There will be posts asking "going to look at an MMr, what do I look for?". And that list is just being built now.

Sorry. Now I'd rather buy a used MMr than a NIB. I can't imaging the stress of putting that kind of money down, waiting so long and having to wait until you open the box to know if you win or lose.