ARRGGGHHHHH......... That could have been a MM or AFM!!!!!!!!!

A fake mm or AFM.

I bought a brand new Mirco AFM playfield to convert that NBA into an AFM.

In the end I couldn't be bothered. 1000s of hours of work to make a fake AFM.

Sorta like buying a Lexus IS250 and putting a V8 in it. It will never be an ISF.

rd.

Kits huh? Don't bank on it.

Is someone actually going to announce something soon or is this all just piss and wind?

I am sure there is always some collector out there willing to drop $$ on original stuff be it a Cobra or a MM.
The rank and file group of users just want a functional offering of the original (me included).

I would like a Stern rerun MM... and an AC Cobra with an aluminum big block , 9" rear end and a turbo 400 with high stall converter and manual valve body. Line-lock also please and some "free" points on my DL.

Vid, I'm no too sure about total loser, but when they dropped that thing near a Borg classic in my arcade, it didn't get too much attention.

It's a wild stab in the dark, but my money is on an announcement tomorrow

Perhaps JJP has set up a subsidiary "Retro pinballs inc" and it shall produce the machines with Mr. Pinball and Planetary Pinball? That way JJP be able to concentrate solely on new titles. This would be in line with JerseyJack's announcement, right?

See below

I believe 7pm tonight is when it all goes down......it will be "Madness".

There's madness in town square.

Rick said 11:15(assuming AM) Friday

I think MM owners are starting to panic...two MMs on Mr Pinball today, one of which is listed for $10,900...haven't seen one that low in a while...

I've always dreamed of owning a MM, but am not willing to pay the current going price. For those of us with aspirations of owning one, I hope we get good news today!

No less fake than someone that takes an original and "restores" it with a new playfield, cabinet artwork, plastics, ramps, new display, maybe a replacement board or two, new legs, and very likely a bunch of other parts. I'm about 80% finished with my NBAFB to MM conversion. Everything has been restored/reworked. It looks brand new. I'm at Expo now and word on street is new MMs are coming which of course will be great news for folks wanting one and will suck for those that want to maintain the current value of their original. I'll admit I'll be a little bummed if new MMs are made for less than what I have in my conversion (and 100s of labor hours). I'll survive it though Oh well... I guess we will all know soon enough.

Good points, but all you had to say was: "Cargument: FAIL"

"Nooooooo!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Oh my precious! All my price pumping and cheerleading and now THIS happens?!?!??!? What about that addition on the house i promised my wife?!? Wait! I know, I'll just say the reproductions are crap! Sure people won't be able to tell the difference but they'll pay 8k more if i use words like 'original'.

1997 Vintage

You need to start using words like "investor quality" pins. Cause that will totally work.

I remember watching a youtube video of a reptile show and someone was hawking "investor quality" reptiles. I am actually very surprised this sort of rubbish term did not transfer into this hobby.

Today should be interesting, I am sure pinside will be refreshed a billion times starting at ~11:15 Chicago time...

Believe you are right...next question would be....where do I send my money to get on the pre-order list?

As I have been seriously researching an NBAFB conversion (i.e. having spent days going through the parts lists and identifying sources and costing for just about every single part), I would definitely be in for an AFM. I just hope if it happens, that greed doesn't take over. I hope that pricing will not be set by the perceived notion that everyone will pay 10K for an AFM. Hardcore collectors that want the best of-the-best and bragging rights will.

But why should these be priced even at 6K or 7K?? Here is my 2 cents: I am assuming these sold new in mid 90s for at MAX or 2-2.5K (just a guess). Are they that much MORE to manufacture now? The original WPC boards are not complex compared to what is being manufactured today, and I would assume that manufacturing costs are now lower. Has cabinet making, screen printing, injection molding, ball guide stamping/machining, and habitrail forming tripled in price since 1995? While skilled labor and engineering costs have increased, has it tripled? All of the engineering design work has been done. I don't believe that parts have tripled in price (at least not if purchased in large runs). Minimum wage has only increased by $3/hr since 1995.

In my ideal world: Materials + Labor + Overhead + Profit = Price. I just hope that "Profit" is not dictated by the small handful that will pay outrageous prices. While standard economics dictate that pricing is driven by supply and demand, one way to cut demand is to overprice.

My vote: 5K. You can get new Sterns for less than that. And I would think that provides a suitable profit margin for Planetary Pinball.

Regarding AFM- I am tired of reading about player-grade, faded machines with playfield wear being listed for 8K that would be "Great Candidates for Restoration." But hey, it has all new rubbers!! At 8K it should be flawless and restored. Not *blinged" with powdercoated screw heads and every mod known to man, but flawless. Otherwise I'll buy WoZ or a new Stern. Five years ago these were 3K machines. So I hope Planetary helps bring folks back to earth.

Regarding New vs. Original? Or even Converted vs. Original? I would take new any day of the week. Better manufacturing, better reliability, etc. Even the high-end reproductions are using new parts. I do not believe they are being delivering with yellowed plastics and ramps, faded stickers, faded cabinet decals with lock-bar holes drilled in the front of the cabinet. The difference between an MPU on 2 WPC pinball machines? A sticker that I can print on a laser printer. I guess I am not a "True Collector." I just want a machine that my family can play where the little green martians jiggle around for a fair price.

Either way, I am in- (depending on price )
Hopefully there will be some good news today.

Wanna, I believe the machines were sold for more than $2.5K when made new that many years ago. I have heard conversation that because the run would be smaller the price would dictate higher component pricing. Sure I would love to buy NIB AFM for $5K, but doubt your reasoning above would prosper into that low a sale price. Wishful thinking though

I paid $3395 + tax on August 18, 1997 for mine new. That was retail. Most ops I knew got it for $3200 or less.

I hope MM remakes are available - more people can enjoy the game. But I want an MB and/or an AFM remake, because I still have my MM.

I'm guessing that my current ownership of mm & afm plus my desire for a mb guarantees that mb won't happen. I've been on a bad luck streak lately.

Thanks for the correction in my initial pricing guess- makes my final price estimate go up

.... the 5K was to be implanted subliminally in Planetary thinking.

What is really interesting is to see how quickly the prices are coming down. One of those MMs looks like it was listed at $3k more just 4 days ago?

Greed... meet my dear friend fear....

I'd love to see MB, but it's a licensed title, so even if remakes were happening it seems like a very unlikely candidate, at least in the beginning.

I understand that and you aren't exactly weakening my case.

Never a fan of MM, but if it's AFM, I'll spring for $7k....

Well they were able to get it for Pinball Arcade, so I would think it wouldn't be too hard to get the licensing.

Whatever the announcement is going to be, it’s not going to live up to the hype here. My guess is that there is no remake, maybe better Saturn rings! or if there is, the price is going to be some silly high number that will carve most here out of a purchase anyway. Conversion kit? Maybe, general interest is going to be driven by how complete the kit is, how expensive, and how difficult it’s going to be for the average Joe to put together.

IF Medieval Madness is indeed going to be remade, don't be foolish and think it's for any other reason than people have been paying ABSURD amounts of money for the game, and that there's some serious profit to be made there.

The pinball hobby collective has -- and continues -- to prove itself as having more money than sense, and any pin-related business is going to take advantage of that while the getting is still good.

If the game is re-run, it sure as hell aint gonna be a $5k or $6k kind of "cheap".

I can't see planetary pinball being able to get the licensing for the parts to sell separately, but someone else putting the kibosh on them screwing them together and selling them as a package.

Stranger things have happened, but seriously, there have been repro MM playfields, decals, characters... I don't see licensing being an issue for this title.

Either way, IF these pins do get remade, there will be a good number of pins hitting the market to free up some cash....Say Good bye POTC

This is slightly off topic but what is up with all the taunting and jabs at mm owners in this thread and others like it? It's almost like people act like you're a stuck up snob because you were lucky enough to get one. It's almost like all y'all think everyone who owns one only has the game to make a buck off it down the line or for the prestige factor.

It's called jealousy dave

Not everyone, but the clueless few who are into buying pinball games because they are "rare" or expensive rather than to have fun playing them might just get a wake up call. And that's okay if it happens.

For myself, it is purely profit driven. MM does great on location. The ROI on a $12k machine stinks. On a $5-6K machine? Sign me up.

I've owned the game twice, and sold it to get better titles. *shrug*. Whatever floats your boat is fine with me.

as for me, i'm not an operator, just a guy who loves to play (and tinker with) pinball machines. my 6 year old daughter's favorite table in TPA is Medieval Madness and she recently asked me if we could get that one next. My response to that was "well, if daddy spent $15000 on a pinball machine, I don't think daddy and mommy would be married anymore." if it comes down to about half that though .... I might be able to swing it.

guess we'll know soon.

Totally agree. I own it, play it, and have no plans to sell it. I went into this hobby to enjoy the machines not make a quick buck. I will continue to enjoy these machines for the foreseeable future. If they remake these machines for others to afford and enjoy...fantastic.

For the posters who think they have privilege information or poke at current MM owners. Grow up,

Agreed. Defiantly an undercurrent of resentment/hostility for people who buy the high dollar items. Be careful though, I said something similar and was accused of being overblown and melodramatic.

If any announcement is made, it will be interesting to see if people "hoard" this buying opportunity. Just like reproduced playfields- buy 'em with no intent of using them, then post them 6 months later at an increased cost just to turn a quick buck.

I hope not.

I agree. It's definitely nothing new, but it seems to have been a lot worse lately and of course part of that has to do with the rumor of repro MM's being made. Some people get enjoyment in seeing other people hurt financially because they think these people are spoiled brats who "have more money than brains".

Risky move though if production is open ended. Imagine existing games plus open production and all the new titles out there. It may be a but harder to flip them.

I'm fine 'overpaying' for MM if in turn I get the chance to own CC at a decent price.

10k plus was never sustainable with a product that could be reproduced and was announced years ago as a game that would be reproduced. It's a market correction if it happens. Markets have those regularly. Sucks for the people who feel hurt by it, but that's the risk you take in any collectible market.

I don't see how they can overcome the price of tooling up to make a run of complete games if they don't use Stern or JJP. Is there anyone out there that has the capabilities right now to make a small batch of games and not lose their a$$ without putting a big price tag on the product? I honestly don't see a ton of other titles they can do this with to offset the price of tooling up. Besides CC, MB & MM, what other remakes could they possibly expect to sell in large numbers.

i realize i sound like a mm owner in denial.

Yes, yes there is.

What is considered a small batch? 1000? 2000?

I think operators would buy a bunch. Europe alone would probably take over 1000.

* numbers pulled from you know where