Completely off target.

The value of a pinball is in being able to enjoy playing the game itself, not the rarity. Comic book and baseball card values are based on condition and rarity. There are very few MM 's that haven't been modified to conditions well beyond how they were born. How much would a TMNT #1 be worth if you colored in all the artwork?

The reason they are worth as much as they are is because they were underproduced due to the market conditions of the time. Only around 4000 were produced. The market could easily absorb double that number if not more. People for the most part buy pins because they are fun to PLAY(the whole reason for their existence) not to just look at and brag about their "originality". Fact is, hardly any of these machines are "original" anymore and nobody cares. It's about the PLAY.

If MM's get reproduced, the value of the existing machines will plummet. The 100% original condition machines will hold their value more but they will still drop.

When someone re-decals a MM, is it now worth less? When someone clearcoats a MM playfield, is it now worth less? When someone chrome plates it to within an inch of it's life, is it worth less?

No x 3.

NGG would be on the potential donors list but a lot better game than Congo IMHO.

I would rather see a re-make complete MM using RD boards and everything else the same as the original with a market price point of 6~7 grand tops. Its a popular and sought after title and if priced right would sell itself. As to the cost of originals they still could be popular for a collector that desires the original item but I would prefer to have one that looks and plays the same with modern boards.

A $5K conversion is tempting when original games pull big money but a re-make priced right would have a much larger market and buyer base. If you use a Congo or NGG for a host that's a couple grand, conversion kit 5K, cab decals $300 so it adds up quickly.

To play the one that will never be what an original game is with out worry of breaking it

Don't forget you get to sell your old Congo/NBAFB plastics, playfields, translights, mechs and ramps, so you do recoup some of your money.

There is a difference between a manufacturer re-making an existing item or someone that has no manufacturing track record starting up from scratch and re-making an item. JJP has learned a LOT in the short time its been involved in active manufacturing. The Wayne attempt was just an attempt and hopefully if MM is remade its sourced to an existing manufacturer with the experience of building games in numbers. Kudos for BBB happening BTW.

The biggest plus to a remake of any title is the coding , software and art packages are finished and well established. Many parts can already be sourced for manufacture and that a huge advantage.

True dat.

actually I know a collector that would say yes to all three

Yes.

Serious collectors do not want a re-decal cab.

Have you ever seen one of those "restorations" where there is a decal on the backbox of the warning text? Yeesh.....

I understand your point of view on the comic and cards area.
Condition is all there is to it .. one spoil and the value, which is what your collecting, is gone.
For a pin, it's designed for playing and handling the machine.
It's not going to be hurt in a collection, i know it will outlife me
I don't have to protect the value, i am having fun using it. Don't need a second one

Yes. No. No.

Who are you going to sell them to when all the Congos and NBAFBs are being torn apart for conversions?

Make them!

ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney.jpg

Someone paid $409 for a non working Big Dick

Why? It is a bit of a turd.

Good theme and kinda fun. But a pretty simple game. The only reason for fame and price is it was the last "pinball" machine to come off the line before the pinball & video game mutated into a dead lump.

And for those who "really" think P2K is [was] the future. It is 13 years later and the only living pinball is a lot of Stern and a little from others. And even thought the DMD and lighting might be changing, I do see any monitors and mirrors coming around for the next great innovation.

I love how those that have such blind support for the Bally/Williams pins bash on Stern when Williams basically gave the pin community a big "FU" and closed its doors and didnt even bother to try n sell its Pinball division off so someone else could keep up with making such great pins.

Yet Stern has done its best to stay afloat in the aftermath (with many of the same designers that worked at Williams) & made some quite entertaining pins in a bad market yet people like you are here bashing the hell out of them. I'm far from a "fan boy" of either company & have had many titles from each & still do today but this mentality I just dont get.

Maybe you can tell me whats next on the table for Bally/Williams??? Another great slot machine???

There is new CCC code pretty much addresses the criticisms. From what I have seen and played, this game deserves to be made again.

Wow 5 thumbs down for that huh? Yeah, well, you know, it's just, like, my opinion, man.

Dont go pissing off the Bally/Williams Boys!!!!.....

is it really "fanboy bias" to disagree with the assertion that modern Sterns are better than classic Bally/Williams? come on man. the machines Stern is putting out right now are totally respectable, but nobody's putting them up there with the greatest of all time. MM, MB, AFM, and TZ are generally considered head and shoulders above any of Stern's offerings so far.

C'mon! Mines worth way more than that. Price police, please.

I think you could find plenty of fans that would say ACDC is up there with those games. I don;t agree in any way but to each their own.

Yeah, but Stern's only had about 15 years to make something better and more timeless than those titles. Give them some more time.

I wouldn't even shell out for one at $6k, but not due to any WMS vs Stern action. I'm just too stuck in the past and too short on funds to think spending that kind of money on a pin is a good idea. Todays prizes be crazy, yo.

It was by design when Williams exited the pin market they did not want anyone picking up where they left off and really tried to break it up and nuke it (IMHO). It was likely profit motivated from gaming machine revenue and the pinball manufacturing was a closed and buried chapter for them.

IIRC Wayne's price for MM (& supposedly CC) was $7K and how long ago was that?

Not saying a $7K MM isn't possible - just unlikely IMO.

If they go for $6K (or less) I'll buy 2, play 1 & put the other on eGay in 15 years ;-})

Stop it stop it stop it. Don't crush the fragile myhtology that runs rampant on Pinside fueled by "thank you" threads

Why? (Rhetorical).
In terms of gameplay and rules, I don't have any problems with Stern (AC/DC, LOTR etc). In fact, it is pretty tough to argue that many of their games have a much deeper ruleset than most B/W games.
Regardless of "fanboys' at either camp - Stern lacks what the older B/W brought to the table:
1. Originality
2. Hand-drawn, beautiful artwork
3. Voice actors/great call outs - don't laugh at this one, I am serious! The opening of TOTAN, AFM, TZ...are EPIC. Stern has yet to accomplish any of this. Sure they have movie callouts, but we have all heard them before - no originality.

I will keep playing all pinballs, and keep my fingers crossed for new pins on the market - remade or not! If they are selling...our hobby is safe!

Thats your own opinion. Ive owned all 4 of the ones you mention & still have AFM n MB but they would all leave before ACDC.

The pinball division was profitable (not as much as the slot machine division but still made a profit)....They could have sold it off & i'm sure someone else would have been interested. Why do you think they just didnt sell off the pinball division then?

It was less than that. I had an order in Nov. 2007.

.... (Not counting shipping or taxes)

So your saying that Stern was losing money back then & continued to lose money for well over a decade yet still managed to put out 3-4 pins a year? Sounds to me Williams had an issue adjusting to the current climate of the Market back then.

If they reproduce these the current prices for the originals will remain stable. Their are many collectors who would pay much higher for originals. Look at how the price of a original BBB when up even after more were reproduced. The deep pocket people who can afford original will still want original.

My two cents,
Rob

I would have the exact same personal limit. At $6-7k I would be in, at $10k...no way.

I seriously doubt it... Some of us like MM because it is a very good players game, not because of the status thing...

The word is out on this side of the globe.

2000 MM's selling at $10,000 US = $20,000,000 US

Thats a lot of parts that will need to be supplied and something to do in between WOZ and HOBBIT.

Jack will need to start ramping up production and staff numbers in the very near future.

This will be the biggest thing to happen with Pinball in a long time.

I can't wait, when can I pay my deposit.

I hope you're right.

deposit sent

I would think it's going to take a long time to unload 2k machines at 10k a piece for a remake of something there is already 4k of out there. The price point is too high IMO. pricing should be around current LE prices.

They made 4400, do you really think 90.9% of them still exist?

Yes. Hell, a surprisingly large number are still out there earning money

If this happens, and the price is $10k, then I'll be honest and say that I hope it fails and everyone learns they can't go there. I can't really think of a worse thing for the hobby. You want to sell it at Stern NIB Premium prices? Hey, I might even go for that. You shoot for 10k then you're doing nothing but furthering a greed cycle that's going to just murder any attempts at this pinball resurgence.

Edit: And when I say Premium prices I mean the real deal street price, so like $6200.

If somebody tries this for a selling price of $10k they're going to have a bad time.

Agreed, and remember that the "regular" MM is worth less than $10k in France.
A $10k "new" MM would translate into approx. 10,000 euros here, with transport, sales and import taxes, despite a favorable exchange rate. This would be more than the cost of the "old" one. Who would buy it here?

The word about this rumor existing, or some "for sure" secret insider word?

Or a bird?

I agree, Stern is making pins to make money. Thinking it is only about the money is a bit much imo. I think there is a real love of pinball at Stern. Gary has been involved with pinball his entire life, I don't think you do that without actually liking what you do.

Of course you are correct, pinballs are to most like buying a hot tub or a watch or a trip to Europe or a nicer car. People who can afford to buy $8k pins have extra money, they are not living hand to mouth or investing in pinball rather than 401k. It's generally just fun money.

I would be amazed if people were jumping on this at 10k. Honestly, I'm surprised by how many people are in at 7k. If you've been in the hobby for any length of time, you could have purchased an original MM for less than this in the past. Just early last year I passed on a MM with some pf wear for 7k. If you are in this just to play the game, you don't need a NIB repro.

I do understand that a 'new' one could be worth more to some people, but I think it's funny how people's standards of what they are willing to pay for a game continue to rise with pinflation. Those standards just happen to always be 20-30% less than whatever market is at any given moment.

So if market price for a MM was 6k in 2008, everyone was complaining how high that was that they were only willing to pay 4k, no more, as 6k is just ridiculous. Now that market for MM is over 10k, everyone is willing to pay 7k, no more, as 10k is just ridiculous. It's all relative.

Brian