(Topic ID: 212485)

Miss-O Short

By SDM0

6 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by SDM0
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Miss_O_Schematic_Diagram_continuouss-orpalis.pdf (PDF preview)
D (resized).jpg
#1 6 years ago

This just started happening but the 10amp fuse for the playfield lights kept blowing. When that fuse goes out... everything works the same except the playfield lights go out. I was able to isolate the issue to the D passive bumper. I took the light bulb out and now it doesn't blow the fuse. I don't see anything wrong with the wiring on the outside. I am not super excited to try and take this apart. I do not want to replace the socket. Can I use a slow blow fuse or would an LED light help... lol I know I shouldn't be looking for band-aid fixes. Are there any tricks I should try before pulling the bumper apart?

It doesn't blow super easy. For example, I can turn the D bumper light on and let the machine sit there on (like in the pic) and it wont blow. It is only when it is switched on in play and then other switches around it are activated that it is too much for it and the fuse eventually breaks. That is why it took a bit to figure out where the issue was, because the ball hits the D bumper but then it doesn't blow right that second it has to bounce around some more.

D (resized).jpgD (resized).jpg

#2 6 years ago

I doubt it's the light socket itself, but do you have a nice schematic scan you can post?

#3 6 years ago

Hi SDM0, currieddog +
ipdb has in four pieces the schematics --- put together, cleaned - made an PDF - orpalis-reduced - here it is --- You may have to make Yo an copy (copy down on to Your computer - THEN look at Your PDF. Greetings Rolf

Miss_O_Schematic_Diagram_continuouss-orpalis.pdfMiss_O_Schematic_Diagram_continuouss-orpalis.pdf

#4 6 years ago

Thanks Rolf, though I am losing my mind and somehow didn't see "Williams", ie-readily available schematic.

Any rate, check the "D" relay. It ties in with other lites, which may explain why you get the blow when the ball "bounces around." Look here: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1612/Williams_1969_Miss_O_Manual.pdf Check the other lites as well.

#5 6 years ago

I just double checked. Aren't the lights sort of separate from everything? Isn't that why one fuse watches over all the lights on the playfield? The D relay activates all the time when the bulb is removed but it does't blow.

#6 6 years ago

I tried putting an LED in it to see what happened. Interesting the Bumper D LED would do a little flash no matter what target was being hit on the playfield. I tried a older 44 instead of a 47 and the playfield lights lasted longer than normal. Of course, I don't really think it has anything to do with the bulb - but rather my twisting it into different positions in the socket. I am feeling that it is just a wire or crack in solder in the D Bumper. But then again, it isn't happening when the bumper light turns on... it usually happens with other switches being hit while it is on.

After testing it out some more, I took the bulb out and played it 4 games and it was fine. But then I lifted the playfield while it was on and it shorted out. This was with the bulb out - so there is some wire on the playfield that is barely holding on.

Is there way to test something to be sure? This feels like the scariest issue I have had because it could be any little thing.

#7 6 years ago

With the symptoms you describe, the fault almost certainly has to do with this circuit. Try temporarily unsoldering various wires in here to isolate where the problem is. Would a phone call help?

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png

#8 6 years ago

Would I be considered a horrible EM collector if I put a 10amp slow blow fuse in? I feel like this is a "temperamental" issue and may just need a bit more power leeway? I know it is not a real fix, but is this an occasion that is ok to use one?

Wont a slow blow still blow before wires start to melt? Isn't there a main fuse that will blow if there is a larger surge? Aren't EM wires old and prolly draw more power than when they were new?

What if I put a slow blow in and raise the playfield and hit switches related to the circuit above - all while watching the fuse to see if it heats up? Don't slow blows get red before they break? I could see if it gets red or blows... then start unsoldering wires and stuff if it does.

I am not trying to be lazy. I just feel like you sometimes have to balance out pinball issues with repairs and slow blows, no? I still need to buy a solder iron and I have not had any experiences soldering yet. Not sure I want this issue to be my first experience soldering unless it absolutely needs to be.

#9 6 years ago

What I suggested must be so offensive that it doesn't even deserve a response lol

#10 6 years ago

What happens if you remove the bulbs from the D and Bot Jet bumpers?

#11 6 years ago

Just now I tested it a bit. I tried taking the lamps out of the D and lower jet bumper - but it still blew at one point when the D relay was active. I put both lamps back in and the second I started a game the fuse blew. Then I took the lamps back out and started a game and activated the D bumper. I put the lamps back in one at a time while the relay was active (thinking it would blow the fuse at some point) but nothing happened. I just tried hitting switches/bumpers for a while with the D relay active and nothing happened. The machine is sitting on in front of me now, mid-game, with the D bumper and bottom jet bumper lit... and no fuse blowing.

It's always the 10amp fuse for the playfield lights only.

It is frustrating because it isn't consistent in what makes it blow.

If it was the bulb holders - I feel the fuse would prolly blow from me putting bulbs in while the relay is on?

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from SDM0:

If it was the bulb holders - I feel the fuse would prolly blow from me putting bulbs in while the relay is on?

Maybe but the only way to be sure is to disconnect them. If you want we can talk on the phone about soldering.

4 weeks later
#13 6 years ago

I found the problem - I hope. The short was actually in the lights under the plastics around the D bumper. I pulled 3 of them out and played it didn't short. Then I added one at a time see if I could identify the one socket. I put new bulbs in and it kept working with all of them in. So I believe I have a sensitive worn socket and a bulb was just in it the wrong way. If it starts doing it again at least I know where to start looking!

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