(Topic ID: 199731)

Miss-O Project

By SDM0

6 years ago


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  • 22 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by SDM0
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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1pt relay (resized).jpg
0Miss-O-Work-01 (resized).jpg
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IMG_1050 (resized).JPG
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5A (resized).jpg
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#1 6 years ago

New here. Trying to learn EMs. Got a Miss-O sitting in storage forever.
Went through and cleaned and adjusted all the switches. Used nu-trol on some parts.
Started it up for the first time.
The on switch starts up the score motor very briefly for some odd reason.
The left flipper turns on the lock relay and the backbox lights go on (that shows "tilt" and ball 1 on) but not the playfield.
It has credits on the wheel.
When I hit the start button the score motor starts up and then this "5000 Relay Latch Trip" starts clicking as the contacts keep hitting. If I push down on the trip the playfield lights come on but the coil is not holding that plate down so it pops back up and the lights go off. But even if I hold that trip down... the clicking still goes on and the playfield lights flash on and off with every click. I thought it might be the coil is dead because it is sort of brown. But even if it was pulling that plate, it would not be functioning right. Why the playfield lights and back box lights don't just come on together I don't know.
I ask here because I can't find a 5000 relay on the schematics and the internet doesn't show a Williams 5000 relay like this (latch trip style).
I have worked on another single player Williams and have learned a lot... but this next project is more challenging. I want to get good at restoring EMs.
Thanks for any help.

relay (resized).JPGrelay (resized).JPG

#3 6 years ago

Odd, wonder why it says 5000. Correct it is on the playfield corner next to the left flipper. If it is and with the definition in the manual... it doesn't seem to explain all the stuff that is wrong with it getting started. Hum.

#5 6 years ago

Do you know what the source 5A means in the schematic to the 500 shown here?

5A (resized).jpg5A (resized).jpg

#7 6 years ago

Ah yes! So my 500 Relay latch keeps firing... part of it goes to the score motor that is running... does that mean the score motor might have something off and it is messing up the relay? or is it that the relay keeps repeating and so the score motor keeps rotating because of that? I am sure I am not explaining this with the correct terminology.

#9 6 years ago

Wow, you are amazing. You were right. The switches looked pretty much right but I adjusted and now that 500 relay isn't a problem. I hit the left flipper and the playfield lights come on with the backbox (altho it still says tilt and 1 ball instead of game over).

Strangest thing tho is that when I set the score reels to 0000 and I turn the power on... the first score reel flips to number 1 (before I touch any buttons). I doesn't do this every time. But whether it does or doesn't - as soon as I start the game the first score real starts to buzz loudly. At least I think it is the first score real and not the closed 1 pt relay right below it (so loud it is hard to tell). The first score reel does stick a little (even after I cleaned it) but I don't see how that has anything to do with it wanting to flip to 1 right off the bat.

There was a little electrical burning cloud that came out of the backbox while I was at the front the last time. So I am kinda scared to try again.

IMG_1050 (resized).JPGIMG_1050 (resized).JPG

#11 6 years ago

Well, I went over and adjusted all the 1 pt switches on the playfield - did the same thing. Then I went over ALL the playfield switches and cleaned them and adjusted (giving more gaps than normal to make sure nothing was touching). Same thing basically. It triggers 1 pt when I turn the power on. Sometimes it cycles to reset the first score reel and then gets stuck back on 1 and sometimes it just starts buzzing without trying to reset.

When I turn the power off - it also gives me another 1 pt. So the machine goes dark with 2 pts on the box.

#13 6 years ago

On the bottom...
What is just C closed switch? And the next closed switch I should block is the score motor index A?
I used thin cardboard instead because paper wont stay in. Kinda hard to get the relays on the bottom of the playfield and then the standup switches on the top of the playfield. lol.

If this fixes the problem then I try pulling out the cardboard in different sections to see what part triggers it again?

#15 6 years ago

Well, I covered it all with cardboard and it did the exact same thing. Kinda depressing. I decided to just observe different switches when I turned the power on. Turns out the game over relay in the very back sparked when I hit the on/off switch. It is getting late tonight so I didn't work on it a bunch... but I did try cleaning and readjusting that relay. I also tried cleaning and readjusting the coin relay. I also pulled the plug from the coin door. Didn't help. But it does seem like the game over relay is part of the issue. Perhaps that is why the tilt bulb is always on when the lights are turned on.

#18 6 years ago

Thank you everyone. I learn more and more each time I go back to work on Miss O.
I now know the more appropriate term toggle on of off.
Rolf - appreciate you taking the time to provide such detail. As a newbie I will need to spend time processing all your comments.
But I will real quick give some specifics on what is happening.

I set the score drums to 0.
I trip the game over relay so it is not pulling on the switches
I plug in the machine
I toggle on (the transmitter hums)
I press the left flipper, lock relay activates, and the lights come on (backglass shows tilt and ball 1 light - but not game over)
I press the front button to start a game and the game over relay, coin relay and reset relay all activate (the game over relay activates last of the three)
After these relays activate the 1 pt relay activates and stays pulled and the score drum buzzes.
I toggle off while it is buzzing and it triggers one point on the reel.
If I immediately toggle back on - it gives me a second point on the reel (because the game over relay is not tripped)

If I press the front button and start a game when the 1st score reel isn't reset to zero - it starts to reset itself - but then quickly gets stuck half way through and starts to buzz.

I looked over the 1pt relay and I don't see anything wrong. I cleaned it again.

1pt relay (resized).jpg1pt relay (resized).jpg

#20 6 years ago

Thank you fredsmythson. HowardR suggested something similar. I checked them all and cleaned/adjusted. I then put cardboard in all of them to isolate the issue. However, the problem still occurred with cardboard covering everything linked to the 1 pt relay. I can check them again, but it doesn't seem to be making a difference.

#22 6 years ago

Thanks everyone! I got the 1pt relay thing fixed. I went to each 1pt switch and cleaned the solder with electronics cleaner. I noticed there were some that were really dirty or covered in goo. I don't know if it was that... or the cardboard moved around... or if it was the few switches I slightly adjusted... but no longer a problem. Such a relief. Now I see many other things that need to be looked at but seems so much more manageable now. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I learned a lot even if it was totally annoying lol.

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