The best homebrew to be made into a game is being put on by American Pinball. There was a lot of talk of ot during expo last year. Which Fast wasn’t even attending.

Really funny : coming the the guy with his assertions and who don’t respond or has any knowledge on this project whatsoever.
You might start a therapy to learn more on the negativity to understand what you bring in here....

You keep asserting that.
You are wrong; but free to keep believing it.

You know what; you might be right about that... let me verify.
I stand corrected and will edit my post.
I incorrectly remembered FAST when it was American Pinball. You are 100% correct.

Dude, why are you so angry about everything all the time? You are the most antisocial, miserable person I’ve ever met and see everything in the most negative light possible. It must be exhausting being so unhappy and assuming everything and everyone is terrible. Does anything bring you happiness?

Seen plenty of posts by Zitt over the years, the vast majority of them have been helpful.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad, dishonest people in the hobby.
I’ve purchased from a few of them.

I Don't know whom fast pinball is or what they do, and after reading all this I have even less idea.
Cant we please get back to Mirco's horrible fucking quality and how he 's ripping everyone off?

Thanks for getting this thread back on topic.

No the posts above are on topic. Mircos horrible playfields and worse customer service practices are not actually the topic here.

Teaser 4

Free gift in every kit!
motip-lakstift-blanke-lak-hoogglans (resized).jpg

Come visit our stand for a exclusive signed sparkled ce fuck you poster!

What happened to the touch up paint?

Teaser ##5

51618320._SX0_SY0_ (resized).jpg

They will still give me there money…

[image removed at the request of owner]

Will Micro be making a formal statement at TPF regarding the defective play fields?

Bwahahahahahahahahahah

Like how the government won’t pay his parking for jury duty?

I want to enjoy the drama more, but I don't understand any of this programming stuff.

Does he really know how to build pinball parts? Are you sure?
His track record with play fields ain’t great.

I went to the show I would probably distribute raw eggs and rotten tomatoes. What happens happens.

more importantly will anybody attending TPF actually have the testicular fortitude to ask?

All I know is that they were partnered with Kulek on the Predator fiasco. I'm not aware of any fully realized commercial product with thier name attached to it, but I haven't really been looking either.

They are essentially a competitive / alternate to the P3ROC system which homebrewers and companies like American Pinball and Spooky use to run their games. They make a CPU and other boards to handle switch inputs, drive coils, etc. It's also has it's own software development platform just like P3ROC. They also make a "Retro" platform designed to go in older games (like TOTAN) so you can change how the game works, right new code for it, etc. and I assume that's what this 2.0 "kit" will consist of.

EDIT: Spooky used P3 on games prior to Ultraman and Halloween.

Funhouse 2.0 uses the FAST boardset.

I know it's pedantic but worth pointing out that Spooky no longer use PROC, they are running a custom boardset made by Ben Heck.

https://macrofab.com/blog/mep-ep-167-benheck-and-the-pinotaur/

I forgot about that, thanks for the correction.

Could someone illuminate something for me please.

If this game is using a non-Williams boardset and none of the games video and sound original assets why is a fee being paid to PPS?

Am I understanding this correctly?

Seems from the thread by the maker about his progress it does build out on those. Also, it's a derivative product.

I doubt you'd be able to market it the same way as a "2.0" product if everything were created newly. It would have to be "works with products such as Tales of the Arabian Nights".

I think the main objection of the people who have objections is that it's being marketed through Mirco. I'm actually surprised whenever anyone markets anything pinball related because there is always some group that objects to it in some way. The makers' thread on this is a great read on progress (as is the whirlwind one that is going directly 2.0 without PPS involvement AFAIK).

Maybe you can also play TOTAN 1.0 and since it has the Williams assets it has the licensing fees to PPS.

That would make perfect sense, running both 1.0 and 2.0 versions and choosing at coin up did not occur to me.

Tales of the Arabian Nights is a non-licensed title with "the tales" dating back before the 1700's.

I doubt 2.0 would be an issue.

.... except that WMS took the trouble to trademark it in relation to pinball (as they did with most of their titles.... since you can't copyright a title, but you can sure trademark it).

I'm not saying it's "right" (copyright law for sure has strayed very very far from what it was originally intended to do.... which was not "be a money maker for the rights holder in perpetuity") - but it's for sure how it is right now.

Skit-B was working with another pinball control company for Predator.

FAST worked with Skit-B on the Experts of Dangerous machine with Jamie and Adam from the Mythbusters. We decided to walk away from that project when the Predator situation spun out of control.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

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Last time I looked up copyrights for William's there was nothing aside from slot machines and in the early 80s some tech related to the Defender video game.

All 2.0 games on the FAST Retro Platform also play original game ROMs.

Nobody who buys a 2.0 game kit should lose their original 1.0 game or have it not play as well, as a result.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

You might be able to build an "independent" totan game (similar to a retheme). However, as soon as you reuse assets such as graphics, DMD animations, sounds, music, exising ROMS or any other elements (such as an WMS logo) copyright will be involved. Thus, you got to license this or you will be in trouble. And yeah, as Aaron mentioned, the game includes the original Totan ROM and can also run that which would probably be forbidden in most countries as well without a license.

I'm aware of that, 2.0 was listed as having no re-used Williams assets so thus no license should be involved.

If it includes/reuses assets or has the original code in some way, then of course that is a different story.

Will the board have chipping or pooling?

Thank you for making me spit coffee on my desk!

Our FAST Retro Controllers (as well as any FAST product) will not be responsible for any chipping or pooling in anybody's pinball machine.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Duh! The boards have to be chipped to function.

Well FWIW PPS just laid the C&D smackdown on the WW2.0 project this morning so... there you go. Citing use of "assets" even though it's a completely new boardset under project development, with completely rewrit code, and not yet for general sale

Can you point he to where we listed that incorrectly? We used a lot of the original assets (+ colorization by us).

I will make sure to get you some chips with your order. Just drop me a line with your order number and I will personally arrange that.

Pretty sure it was mentioned on this forum but can't say off the top of my head who stated it. My interest in the project is more in the direction of homebrew building than specifically TOTAN.

If doing a new version reuse of assets who be expected when possible as all new art and voice talent would be a hell of an undertaking.

They do that to everyone. It's the unethical nature of how PPS does business.
I'm also 100% sure that is:
1) a method of intimidation intending to prevent people from moving to WW2.0 before he gets there.
2) a method to extract licensing fees whenever he thinks he might have an opportunity

Can you provide a reference to this C&D announcement?

Perhaps, but these things are rarely so cut and dry. On one hand it does seem like a money grab; on the other you have to protect your assets (however those are defined or acquired) lest you lose any rights and oversight at all, or even become liable for things beyond your control. So ideally the operating world finds an agreement to run somewhere between those extremes. I spoke with PPS about licensing years ago and the terms weren't necessarily unreasonable, but they did make my product harder to market at a price point.

At any rate, WW2.0 is not "my" project and I've agreed to let the dev handle things from here, and pointed him to this discussion. So he'll chime in if/as he sees fit. This probably isn't the right thread for such discussions anyway I do wish I'd considered this might happen before bringing a demo to Louisville Expo, but that was with his blessing and encouragement (and work to fix a bug). Hopefully cooler heads will prevail for the benefit of hobbyists. We certainly haven't made any money on this - in fact I've spent far more $$ than planned just to get it running presentable, let alone the dev's time on the backend!

It still uses WMS assets, uses WMS Trademark'd names, etc.

I'm sorry to hear that Mr Personality has has put the cabash on your project...

It is complete within the rights of the WW2.0 authors to completely ignore any such C&D.
Assuming they are confident they are NOT using any assets from the original game.
It is 100% legal for anyone to build an upgrade kit as long as you don't supply any art from the original game.
IE if you don't provide a PF with existing art, a Cabinet with existing art, or software with existing art you should be completely clear to do what you want ... even sell it. It's called Fair Use and is pretty clearly allowed under law.

That said; I am *not* a lawyer. So consult one if you think you might be doing something where Mr Personality would have legal grounds to stand on.

A perfect example is people that design a completely new game based upon the old Atari 2600 video game system. No one; anywhere can come asking those people for licensing fees or send C&Ds for at unique game. Some people even sell game carts with new software - and they are completely legal to do so. That said; if you make Pitfall 3 and use sprites from Pitfall ... then you have problems.

Problem is the new software combines with the existing playfield (which is copyrighted) to create a new derivative work.

IANA lawyer but...

Combining it with the playfield could *create* a derivative work, but as long as they are only providing things that are not, in and of themselves, infringing on a copyright, then they should be in the clear just as like with any product, mod, etc.

What purchasers of that equipment do with it (hook it up to their WW playfield, hang it on the wall, use it as a foot stool) is not anyone else's business.

Personal use and he's not doing any duplication by just using existing parts sold by the company. They can't stop a public demonstration any more than Ford can't stop you from making one of their trucks you own into a foodtruck.

The issue is what 2.0 game is going to use 100% original likenesses, sound, names, etc... not much of a 2.0 project if it has no connectivity to the original. Then it's just a retheme, might as well go all new art then.

They can't stop you from using an existing game. Where they stop you is when you reproduce, create new stuff based on their copyrighted material, or distribute their prior work.

Lol exactly the reaction I was looking for, just trying to have a lil fun and keep it real.