I would love to see a video of how you do it. Production run. Simply the best quality!
(Topic ID: 227478)
Edmonton, AB
Quoted from Pinphila:Are you guys doing a website anytime soon?
How do you buy products from them? I'm not on Facebook ?
Well, I will not show any kind of production pics or videos. We are using so many innovations and secret stuff that I would never show even part of it. Sorry.... but I will do a video of how to put rad cals on. This will be available at mircoplayfields.com at the rad cals page or at YouTube e or Facebook...
Regards,
Mirco
Ann Arbor, MI
Quoted from bluespin:Quicksilver playfields have never been done. Please make these
Definitely Quicksilver, old Sterns get very little love.
Great news, Highclasspinball ! Love your products and looking forward to seeing more playfields hit the market!
I will get the rad cals to the show today as well. Fedex did not deliver in time for yesterday. I will have 8 wms rad cal sets at this time. Medieval madness, attack from Mars, theatre of magic, funhouse, bride of pinbot, white water, cactus canyon and fish tales. More sets will be available shortly. Regular price will be 399usd per set. I will try to list them later today in my shops, same with the new playfields and plastics...
Regards,
Mirco
Sana'a
You are wrong on that. Rad cals are not laminated. Basically it is a plastic which is printed from the backside with a flatbed printer. The printing quality is way better than on a regular decal and it looks like a clearcoated high end cabinet.
Again - don't comment if you don't know what you are talking about!
Regards,mirco
Quoted from Highclasspinball:It is a thick piece of plastic, not a laminate. That's different...
Regards,
Mirco
Your command of the English language is probably better than mine, but what you are describing sure sounds like a laminate.
For instance, "Laminated Insert Decals" are sheets of plastic, printed with ink on the backside, then a layer of adhesive is rolled over it.
Quoted from vid1900:Your command of the English language is probably better than mine, but what you are describing sure sounds like a laminate.
For instance, "Laminated Insert Decals" are sheets of plastic, printed with ink on the backside, then a layer of adhesive is rolled over it.
When I think of laminate, I think of an additional layer on top of an inked surface. These Radcals seem like reverse printed plastic sheets with no laminate. Taking insert decals for example, there are three types I am familiar with:
Edited for clarity:
1. Ink on top of plastic layer, glue on bottom. (Must be clearcoated to protect ink layer)
A. Ink
B. Substrate (plastic layer)
C. Glue
2. Ink of top of plastic layer, with a laminate on top (Mylar), glue on bottom
A. Mylar (laminate)
B. Ink
C. Substrate (plastic layer)
D. Glue
3. Ink reverse printed on back of plastic layer, glue on top of ink layer
A. Substrate (plastic layer)
B. Ink
C. Glue
Quoted from metahugh:That doesn’t sound like laminate to me. When I think of laminate, the laminate layer is an additional layer on top of an inked surface. These Radcals seem like reverse printed plastic sheets with no laminate. Taking insert decals for example, there are three types I am familiar with:
1. Ink on top of plastic layer, glue on bottom. (Must be clearcoated to protect ink layer)
2. Ink of top of plastic layer, with a laminate on top (Mylar), glue on bottom
3. Ink reverse printed on back of plastic layer, glue on top of ink layer
It sounds like we are in agreement, but if a laminate is not a layer of something (plastic) covering something (ink), then even another layer is applied to the sandwich (adhesive) for a double lamination, I apologize for my lack of understanding of the English language (English is my 3rd language).
These Mylar insert decals have always been sold as Laminated Decals : Plastic Layer/Ink Layer/Adhesive Layer
PPA-F14-INS-LML (resized).jpg
These insert decals have always been sold as Un-Laminated Decals: Ink Layer/Lacquer Layer/Adhesive Layer
I wonder if you could apply these radcals right over top of existing decals if they were flat and clean ect.
Quoted from vid1900:It sounds like we are in agreement, but if a laminate is not a layer of something (plastic) covering something (ink), then even another layer is applied to the sandwich (adhesive) for a double lamination, I apologize for my lack of understanding of the English language (English is my 3rd language).
These Mylar insert decals have always been sold as Laminated Decals : Plastic Layer/Ink Layer/Adhesive Layer
[quoted image]
These insert decals have always been sold as Un-Laminated Decals: Ink Layer/Lacquer Layer/Adhesive Layer
[quoted image]
I am pretty sure vid knows what he is talking aboot 
.
I don't believe Radcals are laminated. Laminating is uniting two layers by adhesives. Radcals, from what I understand, are taking a thick layer of plastic-like material and printing backward on it and then applying an adhesive that allows the layered system to be attached to the cabinet.
You could probably argue that the cabinet is being laminated, but probably not the Radcal itself. I deal with this type of terminology, including the term laminating, on a daily basis in a legal environment so I have to look at it with a broadest reasonable interpretation.
Sorry for the bad explanation. I will try to describe it better.
A laminate is a thin film of plastic usually a few micrometers thick which is self adhesive and is glued on top of a vinyl which is printed from the top.
The rad cals are reverse printed 0,8mm thick plastic sheets with a very strong self adhesive added to the backside.
They look like a clearcoated cabinet and are used so far on the premium jjp games.
They can be applied on top of the old decals without removing them but you would want to paint the visible corners black.
Hope that help....
Regards,
Mirco
Quoted from DCFAN:Laminating is uniting two layers by adhesives.
So all those plastic sheets, that have ink printed on the back of them and then have adhesive applied on top of the ink are NOT Laminated Insert Decals anymore ?
In a single day, we have changed the definition of a product that has been successfully marketed in our industry for the last 20 years?
GS-CV777NLL (resized).jpg
Quoted from vid1900:So all those plastic sheets, that have ink printed on the back of them and then have adhesive applied on top of the ink are NOT Laminated Insert Decals anymore ?
In a single day, we have changed the definition of a product that has been successfully marketed for the last 20 years?[quoted image]
Those are reverse printed decals. No laminate. I don't think the definition has changed at all, at least not for the past 14 years in my eyes
Here is a good video showing what I consider to be a laminate:
or:
All that being said, I'd love to see some Twilight Zone Radcals
Quoted from metahugh:Here is a good video showing what I consider to be a laminate
That's YOUR interpretation of what YOU consider to be a laminate.
The PINBALL industry's definition of Laminated Insert Decals is a sheet of plastic, with ink silkscreened/printed on the reverse, then a layer of adhesive cold rolled over the ink.
20 years of marketing, down the drain........
GS-SPST888LL (resized).jpgQuoted from Rascal_H:I’m gonna lounge and listen to some Lemmy and drink some lemonade while I lament the limbo of lamination linguistics.
I like the layout of your language. Lay it on me Lion man!
Quoted from vid1900:That's YOUR interpretation of what YOU consider to be a laminate.
The PINBALL industry's definition of Laminated Insert Decals is a sheet of plastic, with ink silkscreened/printed on the reverse, then a layer of adhesive cold rolled over the ink.
20 years of marketing, down the drain........[quoted image]
Technically, what pinball really is doing is the decal is laminating the insert on the playfield. For pinball to call the decal a laminated decal is merely a term of the art of pinball that only one skilled in pinball would use but is technically incorrect from a manufacturing perspective. For an expert in lamination techniques the pinball decals would not be considered laminated. It is a bunch of technicalities of what words mean and is a waste of time to argue. Everyone here that read the thread now understands that the Radcal does not meet the definition of laminated in the traditional sense but does somewhat match what some in pinball would consider the equivalent of a laminate in the final product sense except from what I understand there is no adhesive between the plastic and the print.
I checked them out because I had no idea what they were. They are super thick. Laminated implies at least in my mind a thin material. That is not what they are. They are pretty thick. They look nice, but I'm not sure about the price. I guess one positive for the price is very little prep. They are thick enough that inconsistencies aren't going to show through. Time saver for sure.
Quoted from DCFAN:For pinball to call the decal a laminated decal is merely a term of the art of pinball that only one skilled in pinball would use but is technically incorrect from a manufacturing perspective.
The only thing that matters here, is the CONTEXT it's been used in for the last 20 years: pinball.
In adult movies that feature all male performers, a Lamination is 4 guys in a bunkbed.
Go argue with them that they need more glue (from your perspective) and see if your argument holds any more sway there than it does here.
Quoted from BrewNinja:They are super thick. Laminated implies at least in my mind a thin material. That is not what they are.
Wait till you see them in person.
They are very thin, so your hardware will still all work with it installed (and that's a good thing)
We've been told they measure .8mm; that makes them ~30mils, so if you have installed any of those Hardtop playfield laminates, they are just as thin.
Quoted from yancy:Pinball guys have also call battery leakage “acid” for 20 years.
Exactly.
When someone said there is acid damage on a board, **we** always know what they are talking about, because pinheads have been using the term since the 80s.
There are so many sad Pinsiders, it won't be long...
Vid: So you can see here that by stacking two Titan 2.5" silicone rubber rings, you can keep balls from hanging up on Bally Drop Targets.
Pinside Clown: You are wrong on that. Titans are NOT rubber rings!!!!!!!!!
V: They have been calling them "pinball rubbers rings" for 80 years. Even the resellers describe them as Silicone Rubber Rings.
PC: Nope, they are Polysiloxane. They contain NO rubber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
V: So Flipper Polysiloxane is now the proper term for Flipper Rubbers?
PC: Their not Rubbers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quoted from vid1900:Wait till you see them in person.
They are very thin, so your hardware will still all work with it installed (and that's a good thing)
We've been told they measure .8mm; that makes them ~30mils, so if you have installed any of those Hardtop playfield laminates, they are just as thin.
They are not thin, they are very thick. They are very shiny. They seem to be very high quality.
They aren’t made to go under the rails, the legs are cut away and you need to install the metal leg stand offs before you put the legs on.
5E853C59-C940-46CE-A299-150E28A11D55 (resized).jpegDFA59D79-981D-4D8B-814E-8A4FB51BDE89 (resized).jpegF93F5FB9-45CE-44D9-81F2-8785639CEA7E (resized).jpeg
Melbourne
Quoted from vid1900:Your command of the English language is probably better than mine, but what you are describing sure sounds like a laminate.
For instance, "Laminated Insert Decals" are sheets of plastic, printed with ink on the backside, then a layer of adhesive is rolled over it.
Its like a translite, reverse printed on a type of Polycarb die cut, with a removable adhesive liner like a sticker
the higher quality print is probably not running the art via next gen which creates the dots
Quoted from vid1900:There are so many sad Pinsiders, it won't be long...
Are you having a meltdown?
Quoted from vid1900:The only thing that matters here, is the CONTEXT it's been used in for the last 20 years: pinball.
In adult movies that feature all male performers, a Lamination is 4 guys in a bunkbed.
Go argue with them that they need more glue (from your perspective) and see if your argument holds any more sway there than it does here.
In printing, laminate refers to a coating, covering, or process that layers on top of or over the primary image or source. In my experience, reverse printing on to a material isn’t referred to as laminate.
The only material (pun intended) difference to the consumer is whether the layers are bonded together adequately so they won’t separate and that the laminate doesn’t distort the image/color in the short or long term.
Ultimately, people need to understand the product’s value, benefits and limitations and not get distracted by terminology...which is the responsibility of the company selling the product.
The gap between the side rail and the decal is reduce to almost zero on the newer runs. Dialed in is a while ago...
Regards,
Mirco
Quoted from metahugh:Are you having a meltdown?
There is going to be a porcelain meltdown - soon
We each just consumed a large Geno's East pie (and we paid $4 extra for "mega cheese" - don't ever do this!)
Old Style and pizza - Chicago breakfast of champions
oimg2345234523452345wetsdgz (resized).jpg
Quoted from Frogman:In printing, laminate refers to a coating, covering, or process that layers on top of or over the primary image or source. In my experience, reverse printing on to a material isn’t referred to as laminate.
I hear ya.
IN PRINTING laminate refers to a coating
IN PORN laminate refers to 4 guys in a bunkbed
IN ACCESS CONTROL a laminate refers to a pass or ID worn around the neck
IN PINBALL laminated insert decals are reverse printed plastic with adhesive laminated to the backside
Like most things in life, context is everything.
context-is-everthing-300x300 (resized).jpegMirco does incredible work and I will buy his products whenever I need them.
VID is one of the go-tos for pinball help and if he says it a laminate I'll call it a laminate.
As.for batteries I call if corrosion and avoid the chemical source.
Quoted from Bud:They are not thin, they are very thick. They are very shiny. They seem to be very high quality.
THIS is the kind of post that makes Pinside a great resource!
Showing a picture of a coin next to the product is very demonstrative, rather than just blathering away with definitions from other industries.
AND it's fun that you think these are "very thick" and I think they are "rather thin", yet we both have held the exact same product in our hands.
Excellent post.
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