Quoted from pinballmachine:I also asked if i am not satisfied if I can return it and that was no problem.
He will accept returns but you need to pay for shipping, not cheap.
(Topic ID: 272125)
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Quoted from neverahighscore:I did the PPS purchase for my SS playfield. I paid the extra money to get a hand picked playfield. I was sent high resolution pictures and confirmed I could return it if I wasn't happy. This is absolutely the best way. My playfield was perfect and still looks new. Excellent customer service from PPS
Just my opinion, excellent customer service would be that PPS does this without charging for it! Basically PPS is saying they're aware that the quality of the playfields is hit or miss so we're going to benefit off this and charge you to look at them as opposed to looking at them and sending any flawed ones back to Mirco.
So the people that pay PPS for this service gets a great example. The person that doesn't pay for it gets a less then desired playfield. Let's face it, PPS has to get rid of the less then desired ones sooner or later!
The only way to get a company, in this case Mirco, to step up their quality is to hold them accountable. Or maybe Mirco adopts a process like CPR where he grades his playfields. Opinions always varies but if you're paying for a bronze or silver you know there's going to be flaws. With Mirco you're paying full price and hoping there's no issues.
7 months later
Quoted from JodyG:He's giving a 9AM presentation at Expo this year...that would be a good time to ask him in person.
So Mirco (translation n English means Poor Quality) is traveling form the Fatherland to give a presentation at 9am ...... some advise.... save the money on airfare and hotel and put it into online course in customer service! NO ONE will be there at 9am on a Saturday!
I almost wonder if JJP is advising Mr. PQ that he really should go to try and do damage control (if so ... too late)
2 weeks later
Quoted from Kkoss24:He backed out .What a shame was going to try for a autograph .
[quoted image]
did he back out or did he have to cancel? I know the EU has restrictions on flying to the US.
Quoted from Wmsfan-GAP:He knows he was gonna get just hammered so I’m sure he backed out.
I thought the same originally but knowing Pinside NO ONE would have the courage to say anything in person.
All Mirco has to say is “I am making (an in demand) playfield” and everyone will praise him.
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:Maybe the the US has restrictions on letting crooks in?
We don't call them crooks here, we call them politicians! 
Can't call Mirco a crook. Guy makes a product and sells it to willingly buyers .... just the product is of poor quality!
Quoted from dmacy:The German fellas seem to have theirs worked out though.
yeah the German fella does until the next JJP release. Not to mention the other titles he's reproducing and people are complaining about.
4 months later
Quoted from djsolzs:Thanks Mirco for the quality playfield… less than 100 plays
[quoted image]
You missing a mini post???
Quoted from djsolzs:No sir not missing anything- removed to show the damage of the clear and artwork lifting on a poor quality PF
Also this PF sat for months to cure after purchase.
agh ok kool, makes sense.
4 weeks later
Quoted from gdonovan:Some people have issues, some don't. Plenty of people have had zero issues. If 100% of his playfields chipped JJP would not be using his playfields, far too much liability.
JJP has changed their warranty to exclude playfields all together. Not sure what “liability” you’re referring too?
There are only a few companies that make playfields n JJP screwed things up with the other thus are (basically) stuck with Mirco.
1 week later
Quoted from Rum-Z:There's no art under those posts (between the clear coat and wood) in those hidden areas, so there's going to be no pooling. It's the introduction of digitally printed art between the clear coat and the wood, that allows the pooling to happen. This is why Stern removed art from beneath post mounting areas on their digitally printed playfields.
Agree with this!
Quoted from Rum-Z:I'm puzzled why JJP and Mirco refuses to do so.
Remember, Mirco still believes there's nothing wrong with his pf! Jack thinks the issues are a result of owners doing something!
Quoted from Jjsmooth:Here is an easy way to ease your mind before swapping a pf. These are 2 that I bought from Mirco 6 or 8 months ago.
So are you suggesting for people to buy the pf and leave it for "6 or 8 months" to see if pooling happens?
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:I've seen a lot of people saying this but it makes no sense. While Ron does a great job of touching up and clearing playfields, if the issue is art not sticking to the playfield, redoing what's on top isn't going to make a damn bit of difference.
Here are three pics of a Mirco FH playfield swap I did for an op friend of mine. He sent me these pics after about a week's worth of play. While it looks minro now, I guarantee you it will get much worse.
I'm so fucking tired of this shit!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
You obviously over tighten everything!
Quoted from JodyG:Anybody planning on getting a picture of Mirco's back from 40 feet away while they are at TPF?
My prediction for the Mirco seminar is this ........ people will go with guns a blazing, Mirco announces TOTAN 2.0 and people praise him and leave the seminar with TOTAN 2.0 and half of them don't own the game!
COMING SOON: TOTAN 2.0 and Playfield package deal!
Quoted from smalltownguy2:What a scumbag. "We will not be responsible for any 3rd party sales."
So basically no one's taking any responsibility for anything. Great.
and in the end people will continue to throw money his way!
Quoted from romulusx:You got to admit that it was pretty brave to sit there and then to be so bold as to answer questions that way.
Wouldn't call it brave. Denial is more like it. Mirco is convinced there's nothing wrong with his product and people keep throwing money at him. He will continue to make pf for JJP so at this time ..... nothing is wrong in his mind.
1 month later
Quoted from TheClownpuncher:Regardless, they could offer a service where if you want a "perfect" playfield or some other specific thing,
Just an idea, how bout produce a quality product to begin with.
Quoted from TheClownpuncher:you can work with them on a preview and they could charge for the service. (I don't know if they do this).
Planetary Pinball does this and, imo, it’s nothing more then price gauging. In this case Planetary sells a license to vendors who produce a product that Planetary then sells on their site and wants to charge extra to look at it for you!!!!
How bout Planetary, as well as anybody else, look at their product before selling it to ensure theirs no blemishes?
The only pf manufacturer doing this was CPR. Their grading system gave you a heads up that blemishes existed.
2 months later
Quoted from Talon2000:FYI
Working on a Spirit Mirco PF swap. Found out that the playfield is 3/16 to wide and tall, as compared to the original. The PF will not fit in the cabinet. Looks like a disassemble and rip the pf down on a table saw to get it fit.
Didn't think I would have to check the measurements of something that should be a standard measurement.
You may know to do this but put some masking tape down where you plan to cut as it will help eliminate splintering. Not sure how the clearcoat is going to come out as I can see it chipping, Good luck.
Of course we can assume Mirco will deny this is his fault. Probably blame it on the wood swelling.
5 months later
Quoted from High_End_Pins:. I don’t know why he doesn’t seem to care at all.
He’s NEVER cared Chris. He has a few manufacturers using him and the the collectors buying from him. It’s all about quantity with him.
You’ll see him post on Pinside all the time telling people what new things he has and what he can do but he never responds to any post that is a complaint. He’ll email you privately, if you’re lucky, and tell you to ship it back … at your cost of course!
Prost
1 month later
Quoted from nocreditdot:Mirco will never get my business.
He doesn't care as he has more then enough work at this point. Hopefully once Buthamburg gets up to speed they'll take accounts like JJP away from Mirco and then maybe he'll care.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Hope it helps out anyone interested, or not.
1 week later
Quoted from PPS:What I do and will do is forward any issue to any of our suppliers with complaints of quality and work with them to get a resolution if you cannot come to one yourself.
What I won't do is deal with generalities, so if you have a specific issue on a specific product that you cannot get a resolution with then let me know.
I've already heard back from Mirco ... so will be digging into any issues ... which I've had one email so far.
rick
To be fair Rick it's been one day so it's not surprising that you have only one email thus far. A lot of the people that have posted their problems may not be following up on this thread.
If you look back at this thread you will see there's certainly issues with Mirco. One alarming one is post #852 where after 30 days the playfield is shot.
You posting here advising people to send examples of issues is great but I think you just opened yourself up to be Mirco's customer service now. As you can see, if you go back and read this thread, most people have already reached out to him and he refuses to help.
Quoted from Coyote:While this is all true, keep in mind that some of Mirco's issues isn't in manufacturing, but art. Missing text (his TZ reproduction and 9-ball field), horrible vectorizing artwork (9-Ball). The latter he finally fixed after getting a lot of feedback. These are just two that are on the top of my head, too; it's not limited to these two examples.
Some of his OTHER issues are customer support - it's non-existant, or, usually when it does exist, it's rude and unhelpful.
Those things can be changed quickly, without having to 'destroy previously made fields' (though the fields with errors on them still may have to be sold at a discount). The artwork issue? That can be fixed easily_ by letting a handful of folks preview it. (Example? Buthamburg forwarded a PDF of his artwork for the RoadShow playfield to a few of us to verify before he set up his printing.)
Correct me if I am wrong but, didn't he get a bunch of feedback and still produced the 8 ball with a bunch of issues? I swear I recall a post where mirco posted pics of 8Ball artwork and people were picking out the issues/errors and after he fixed several he wound up just producing the pf with errors as it was taking too long to fix all the issues.
If I am wrong apologies!!
1 week later
Quoted from Pinzzz:A two day old Godfather LE on location yesterday with a Mirco playfield that has raised inserts around the mosaic window that effect the ball path (gameplay).
[quoted image][quoted image]
JJP has no warranty on playfields and Mirco doesn't backup his product. This is just sickening! Sorry Pinzz, that just sucks. As an operater you have to be leery of buying JJP in the future.
If you would, post pictures over time. It would be interesting to see how it does over time.
4 weeks later
Quoted from seshpilot:Just to refute Mirco’s last post in this thread: I have bought 3 playfields from him over the course of 10 years. ALL 3 have had issues with the latest one being the worst with clearcoat chipping and cracking. The percentages are not low, the issues are not few. This post may just be a speck now in the world of pinball where not many see it, but it WILL grow.
Did you happen to email Rick advising of the issues? I have absolutely no faith that Rick will do anything but at some point, after X number of emails received, maybe he'll admit there's an issue. As of now he just keeps repeating "have had one persion with an issue that we are resolving to his satisfaction".
Quoted from Sako-TRG:Found this one on Ks site:
Raised inserts, unsure what the white is, wear, wax, glue?
Hope this is a one off...
[quoted image]
Could be glare as well but more than likely it's wear from the inserts being recessed and the ball going over the "lip" of the insert.
2 months later
Quoted from cottonm4:Thank you very much. If Mirco has not produced by August 31 I will reach out to you.
Not sure why you would give him that much more time but I respect your decision. It's just such a big insult to you and all others that are impacted by this guy. He has posted several times on this thread so you know he's seeing all these complaints and, apparently, refusing to do anything about it. At a minimum, you would think he would PM you guys and just say I'll mail you the pf back.
It's one thing to do something in error, it's another thing to do something that you know is impacting someone. It's bad enough that he has so many quality issues but to blatantly "borrow" someone's property and not return it makes him a thief.
Kobaja has graciously offered to help out. Everyone impacted should fill out a Police Report.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Methos:Cottonm4 - I think your only chance is going to be if he attends a show here in the future. Can you see if he has any plans on attending Expo in Chicago?
He was there 3 years ago I think, not sure about the last few.
The last show I recall him being at went very poorly for him, to the point he left early. Not sure you'll see him back in the States.
Quoted from MiniPinHead:So how many people are itching to buy a Dragonfist playfield? Just curious.
-1
Quoted from j_m_:or get ready to be disappointed. mirco has no sense of pride in producing a stellar product, just getting something to the finish line (and in some cases) prior to another vendor that has worked out the rights for a game. if he can't get original screens from rick @ PPS, he scans and pays for cheap labor in india to knock out the playfield as fast as he can.
and we all know Mirco not only will reproduce this pf with the same errors but then advise the errors "were in the original"
3 weeks later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:My years of doing hundreds of new playfields (Star Gazer & Seawitch) & restored direct ink old Williams/Bally playfields. Zero had any failure from sealing the playfields (sanded base with 320 grit finish by hand orbital sander, & wiped clean with Naptha) with 2 sprayed coats of Varethane Interior Water based gloss! Never sanded between coats, days or weeks before second coat with no problems. Never had a problem with pooling or chipping with DuPont auto finish (multiple contractors over the years). Only had some finish failures from jobs they rushed or the product was to hot which usually results in the black ink curdling mostly on the really old Colorspan 9840 printer for restorations. The old Canon Oce printer used for Stern Star Gazer & Seawitch, had very little problems with finish clear coat.
Most people have no idea that I was a pioneer & promoter many years ago of uv inkjet production.
John, you're not a pioneer of anything when you have to constantly tell people that you're a pioneer. You're a pioneer when others state that you were a pioneer. You keep typing the same thing over and over to the point that you're hoping to convince people that you were.
Quoted from MrBally:In 1991, Bally switched to a UV cured ink process at their Las Vegas production facility. It was only for new slot machine glass though so not sure if it counts in your book.
Service parts continued until 2007 with conventional screened ink and air curing in Bensenville, and later Wauconda Illinois.
Don't bring facts into a conversation with the "pioneer".
2 weeks later
Quoted from The_Pump_House:Is that a chip in the finish over the brass knuckle insert?
I wondered the same thing. To me it looks like a chip that is common when an insert sits a little low. Hopefully this is not the case as it will get progressively worse as the ball continues to go over it.
GF (resized).png 3 weeks later
Quoted from cottonm4:I am not for laying any heat on Robin. He has a website that needs to be fed. All the time. Mirco advertises here and helps generate revenue to keep pinside going.
Good of you but the fact that someone generates revenue from someone that has been documented to have bad business practice's is iffy in itself. At a minimum, this thread should be a sticky for all to see, especially someone new to his site. By doing nothing, it's helping mirco's bad business practices continue.
Just my 2 cents (.019 euro) on a Wednesday!
Quoted from cottonm4:Here is my latest from Mirco.
Oct. 9, 2023
Me: Where are my pictures, Mirco? Where is my play field? how much longer are you going to drag this out?
Mirco: Actually it is almost done. Just last layer clearcoat tomorrow and I expect to ship the play field end of this week.
Oct. 10, 2023
Me: That is wonderful news, Mirco. But please understand, until you prove yourself, these is just empty words to me.
When you tell me that it WILL ship on such-and-such day, instead of this “I expect” verbiage, then maybe we have something.
How about some pictures? Proof of the pudding, so to speak.
Oct. 11, 2023
Mirco: Done. Please email your shipping address again.
( I also sent over my plastics ).
Mirco: Plastics are not yet ready, but working on them next. The two playfields will ship this week.
So, there you have it. " The two play fields ( my original donor and a new rerpo ) will ship this week. So says Mirco. But this is the first time in 3 years that I received a concrete sentence saying "will" instead of "might" or "should", etc.
If Mirco is true to his word ( that's a big stretch ) I should be receiving my play field(s) in the next 10 days, or so.
I will keep y'all posted.
I'd tell him to put your plastics in with the playfields. The fact they plastics aren't finished isn't your concern. Of course we're talking as if he's actually going to send out the playfields.
Good Luck!!!
Quoted from cottonm4:Using your logic, then shouldn't Texas Pinball Festival not sell space to Mirco for displaying and selling his play fields?
" Hey, Ed, Mirco has not returned my play field and you should not be letting him set up shop at TPF."
or
" Hey, Ed, I bought a play field from Mirco and it started chipping and pooling. You need to stop selling him space at TPF since he has some quality issues."
How do you think that is going to fly? TPF would tell me to haul my smelly ass out the door.
OTOH, if I handed Mirco $1000.00 for one of his play fields at TPF and he did not want to hand it over to me but keep my money, Ed and TPF would need to get involved.
All IMO.
I'm no Mirco apologist. He hit my shit list when he was issuing empty threats to John Greatwich saying that Greatwich needs to cease and desist from reproducing Seawitch play fields.
And while we all have problems of one sort or another with Mirco, I don't believe I have heard anyone come in and say they bought a play field via Pinside and Mirco did not deliver and just kept the money.
The transgression of taking the money from a Marketplace ad on Pinside and not delivering the product is an issue where Robin would need to get involved. But for me, or anyone else shipping a play field over to Mirco and it not being returned is not Robin's problem. The play field I buy and it starts chipping and pooling is not Robin's problem. Robin is not a quality control inspector, IMO.
I may be building another Quicksilver someday. Mirco is the only game in town. What should do? Go without because I would be buying from Mirco.
Now, Nine Ball, which I have recently scored the parts needed to build another Nine Ball, I have options. I can buy from Mirco, but I also now have the option of buying from CPR. And I would go with the CPR unit---and this would only be after CPR has already has worked out the kinks from how it seems to manage to make crazy and inexcusable errors in some of its first run play fields.
What I know that I will not do in the future is send Mirco another play field to reproduce. His less than honest answers, hid bullshit answers over the last 3 years has left a bad taste in my mouth.
None of this is Robin's problem, IMO.
Certainly understand that "None of this is Robin's problem". Wasn't implying it was, just saying he doesn't have to support it either. But after reading your post, I certainly agree with your position as well.
Again, best of luck in getting this resolved.
Quoted from cottonm4:I kept getting the "maybe next week" emails for 2 1/2 years from Mirco. The nature of his emails did not change until minipinhead came around. And then Mirco sent me an email telling me that he came in a looked at this thread and by what he said, I know he came and at least took a partial read of this thread.
Did this thread galvanize him into action? I have no clue---but I want to think the talk on this thread helped move things along. If nothing else, at least I got to come here and cry the blues to people who would listen
I think that by the middle of next week I should have the package.
Makes me wonder as to how many people, like you, gave him products to scan and never received them back. Most people, I imagine, aren't as persistent and just gave up thus mirco kept their product(s).
Quoted from Anony:Yeah I have to admit that looks half decent.
I would agree, it looks pretty true to what was sent to him. The biggest hurdle is whether or not it will hold up.
Quoted from Anony:The wear on the original is weird but considering he took the marketing pics of the new one sitting out on some bricks I have a feeling he didn't store it or treat it that great while he had it. Probably had it sitting in a pile of other playfields.
Almost appears as if he had tape or something stuck to it. Notice how straight the area is by the word SPECIAL. It's almost as if something was adhered to the pf then taken off.
Quoted from noitbe1:He says that he don’t care about the kit, he is offering to stop selling his kit only if I help him because he invested money in the first place. (Reminder, the kit is sold 2700 dollars)
What do you guys think ?
Working with Mirco is only going to lead to more disappointment on your end.
Quoted from noitbe1:that is my issue with Mirco
The fact that Rick allows him to sell this product is very questionable, he's giving the license to Mirco to sell the product.
1 month later
Quoted from MiniPinHead:In a sense, that would be wishful thinking. Many playfields are received by buyers who find them too “fresh,” meaning that they might have been produced upon an order being received. I think it’d be ideal if Mirco had a bunch of playfields that were aged at least a few months, so you have a good idea of what you have when you receive it, instead of needing to wait a few months.
But then you're asking Mirco to have a bigger facility to store playfields. No manufacturer wants to pay money to store a product when they can make it on demand.
Another solution is to use better products but they cost more so, again, Mirco isn't going to do that. He's completely fine with providing a subpar product and having people modify it, whether that be using washers or sending out to have someone else clearcoat it again. This doesn't cost him anything more and people keep on buying.
Quoted from cottonm4:That is not crook behavior.
Agree but, taking ownership of someone's property that sent it to you is. You received your playfield back but would you have if you didn't constantly chase him? How many others are there that just gave up and he still has their "property"? He's stealing people's property by not returning thus (IMO) it makes him a crook.
1 month later
Quoted from High_End_Pins:That’s definitely not going to work on this one. You can see the fingerprints all over the trouble spots and it’s clear someone started assembling it.
My best guess is it was returned to him for some reason and sent to me as new.
The worst part is I paid for these on 1-12-24 with then told the delay was they were running them.
That went on for three weeks so to now get this old previously assembled one is something I am beyond furious about.
It’s not money it’s morals.
I would open a dispute now if you paid via credit card. Mirco will drag this out further and, at best, will offer you a replacement IF you send this pf back, at your expense of course.
Quoted from pencilneck:No rights holder should licenses anything to the morons at Mirco.
Well only way Rick makes money is by selling the license so that's not going to happen. Plus, Rick has posted before that he receives very little to no complaints about Mirco.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:Yeah I PayPaled but I couldn’t care less about the money. I would saw this warped piece of shit right in half on camera it means nothing to me.
Certainly understand Chris but this is what this guy does constantly, don't reward him for it!
Go have a strong beer and get your weekend going!
Quoted from Pastor69:Same with my Medieval Madness playfield recently bought in january.
January 2024?? If so, be really interesting to see what happens 3-6 months from now when you have played on it. In most cases the pf looks great (not including the wrong colors used, text missing etc.) but when you use it is where things really go awry!
Quoted from Warzard:The silence from the license owner is hard to understand:
No it's not as if Rick were to do anything it would only affect his bottom line as well.
If this blows up enough, Rick will come on here and post "this post was just brought to my attention. If you have issues please contact me directly. I have received no complaints about Mirco"
2 weeks later
Quoted from MiniPinHead:You're reading it incorrectly, apologies. HEP gets all the credit for it being gorgeous. If it wasn't for him and his willingness to take on the playfield, I'd have probably the worst WH2O reproduction playfield you've ever seen But will concede that I wouldn't have a WH2O if Mirco didn't produce a WH2O playfield in the first place. Sure, someone else could do a much better job, but I'm not ungrateful.
From seeing that video of HEP's, which is great information, the process would be an easy difference if it is different. Anyone with a recent JJP could check a through hole and see if the edge appears cut after the clear was laid on. I'd find that finding very useful, as I'd continue to not consider a JJP table if the clear was cut after being sprayed. That is one piece of great info to come out of this thread
Is this greatwichjohn?
1 month later
Quoted from Anony:It is weird though. If he just stood behind the quality of his product and offered no questions asked refunds within a certain timeframe people like me who are on the fence would have no problem buying from him.
If he's selling as many playfields as he claims he is it makes no sense to argue with customers over little details. Just take it back, it will sell.
The only conclusion I can draw is that he doesn't sell nearly as many fields as he claims and that the vast majority of his revenue comes from commercial contracts and not hobbyists buying single playfields. And if that's the case he might as well just get out of the game and let someone else get the license for those PFs so he can focus on JJP.
ANYONE can get the license to sell playfields. It's not like Mirco has exclusivity. The issue is, there's not others willing to take the leap into this business that can produce in volume.
Only way he will change is IF the likes of JJP took their business in house or to another manufacturer. We all know going to another manufacturer is out as Jack burned that bridge. Plus I doubt this would even change Mirco as he's set in his ways.
Lastly, people like you that are "on the fence" usually jump over to Mirco's side and he knows this. As always stated "what other option do people have".
2 weeks later
Quoted from Williampinball:Yes he should sell PFs with out the clear and people can do there only REAL clear coat or get someone to do that for u ether way way way better off
Keep in mind he's had issues reported where the ink isn't adhering either so it's not as simple as that.
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