Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Thing is though, if you are patient enough, there will be a Hardtop come out for Quicksilver and many of the other Classic Stern solid state games. Catacomb happened to be the first one out for a Hardtop.

Quoted from Chalkey:

I had polling on my sorcerer, you can likely expect the same.

Quoted from slochar:

Undimpled playfields is where experience in swaps comes into play heavily.
Even dimpled playfields experience counts when you test fit the mech and it doesn't look right to you you can correct it. Almost all dimpled PF's even NOS ones have one or 2 spotting errors or missed drill holes, etc.
The most recent PF I finished was Mystic and CPR got most of them right.... but there were a few holes drilled through for Tnuts that shouldn't have been - had to recess the Tnut otherwise it wouldn't have fit under the drop bank.

Quoted from djsolzs:

No sir not missing anything- removed to show the damage of the clear and artwork lifting on a poor quality PF
Also this PF sat for months to cure after purchase.

Quoted from djsolzs:

7/22/2019 is on the receipt…. I let it site for a long time in our guest room. I’m not sure I buy the whole let it sit to cure and you’ll be good concept.

Quoted from Off2War:

Has anyone purchased a playfield recently from Mirco (within the last 6 months) and had any issues with pooling or chipping after installing it?

Quoted from seshpilot:

Bumping this up just to add another voice in the warning here. I purchased a Mirco PF and let it "cure" for 6 months. Installed it and within 2 months, the cure around EVERY post is pooling and chipping.

Quoted from seshpilot:

Quicksilver. Purchased 2/25/20

Quoted from PinMonk:

Pretty clear you'll likely have the same problems. I'd have Ron fix it for you first, so the install is one and done.
Does it suck that you have to have a brand new playfield repaired with proper clearcoat? Yes. But it's part of the well-documented Mirco experience if you want to go that way.

Quoted from play_pinball:

I recommend adding these just for some protection gdonovan
https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PBL-700-0069-00-70
https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PBL-700-0070-00-70
Obviously it sucks to have to add extra things that cost more but I did have pooling on my 2020 Quicksilver (after 8 months of curing) which stopped after I went back and added these. It took a few months to start showing the pooling and chipping.

Quoted from PinMonk:

Looking forward to it.

Quoted from play_pinball:

I ended up putting them on all the posts. Maybe overkill, maybe not. I was already doing most, so I figured I would just do them all. IIRC, even the upper posts of the rollover lanes up top had some pooling.

Quoted from Davi:I don't recommend that.
HEP experience:
"Whoever is coming up with these “fixes” are doing themselves and their customers more harm than good.
It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers."
He explained a solution (with pictures):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gnrce-playfield-issues?tu=High_End_Pins

Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I had at least twenty others reach out to me when I was struggling with mine to report the same issue. On top of the ink issue the PF's did not arrive dimpled as they missed that entire step in the milling or whatever process.

Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

This was a little better than a year ago. I did a playfield swap for a friend.
These were the minor issues.
What really pissed me off was Kevin initially took no responsibility for any of the issues we had. Pointed the finger at me and said it had to be all my fault because they have never had issues like this with any of their playfields. After a little research, we found that was not the case.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

If I ever have to buy another Mirco PF (like the Alien Star PF I've been waiting 3+ years for), I'm pretty sure those install techniques would help prevent the pooling/chipping issues with the stock, soft & never-seems-to-harden Mirco clear.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

CPR doesn't generally do competing titles if they're already available on the market.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

Well, I said generally
For Seawitch, it was taking multiple years to actually fulfill orders. CPR was able to produce them much faster.

Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

I have a stack of Williams Diamond Plate, Ballys and Gottliebs that will show you "no one did it right back then"

Quoted from Haymaker:

The undersized post thing stems from that stupid youtube video some hack put out saying that it was the cause. Its been debunked numerous times but people still continue to go with that narrative. It "could" be a contributing factor, but I even doubt that. Regardless, its not the main cause and people really just need to stop with that.

Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

Problem was the design, size and placement of fastener on Playfield.

Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

That has been an issue in this hobby for awhile.
If plastics break.. Is that because something is wrong with the plastic?

Quoted from Anony:

Saw this posted on a local board recently... buyer seems unhappy as you can imagine[quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from Anony:

Interesting, he did post some pics of his factory one for comparison and I see the holes are offset a little, but not quite as bad as the one you pictured. The other part is much better aligned from the factory.[quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from fosaisu:

No, a fair question to ask and you inspired me to look back, and I had it wrong. I pre-ordered and don't believe I was offered an option of choosing gold/silver etc. But the playfield I received was stamped "gold," and I did see a post where someone said they were offered a "silver" because the gold had sold out. So at least as of 2019 they were still doing grading, though at that time Kevin was saying they wouldn't need to use grading with their new digital printed playfields.
Anway, I'll edit my prior post to avoid misinforming anyone about CPR's business, not my intention (and not really the point of my post anyway).

Quoted from Xenon75:It isn't every playfield. yes people have had issues and it sucks but I have installed 6 or so from Mirco and not had a problem with alignment, fitting in the cab, or clearcoat issues. Many of these playfields are now being used frequently in tournaments and on location with no issues.

Quoted from NC_Pin:So maybe we should all work together with our PF's and have them sent for restoration. Since it sounds like it can take a year or longer it kinda sucks to have a game sitting without a PF for that long. Kinda like a PF book exchange
I need a MM... If it is okish shape I could buy it, or just send you mine once it is pulled out of the game.

Quoted from radium:

There would be plenty of competition and high quality $600 playfields if this were not a licensed product.
This is the licensors fault as much as it is Mirco’s.

Quoted from koji:

... and yet somehow Ron Kruzman (among numerous others) seem to have a excellent track record for re-clearing with the same high gloss wet look, and enthusiasts knowing that this will hold up.

Quoted from cottonm4:

Your opinion is noted. However, 10 years could easily turn into never. Then what?

Quoted from Zitt:

cottonm4... have you ever seen the rubber captons on a 80s tape deck, VCR, or hard drive?
Can you imagine what'll happen in 20 years on those rubber washers?

Quoted from pinballizfun:

They are fine for a blown out field. They should not be used on a mildly worn field, and should never be called a restoration. Restoring something means bringing it back closer to its original state.

Quoted from Haymaker:

Clearcoat changes gameplay too. Full stop. Yet nobody seems to have a problem with clearcoated games.

Quoted from cottonm4:

What a minute. Are you saying that the CPR mirror finish is more like buying a can of "chrome" spray paint with the mirror finish on the cap and when you spray all you get is silver paint?
Am I understanding you correctly?

Quoted from mof:

OH REALLLLLLLLLYYYYYY........

I do love to upgrade my use of grammar and vocabulary, so I'm ALL ears. I appreciate that you see an upgrade here for pinball vocabulary. Let's hear it!
Human Being Law #56A: "If you need to remove a toy out from a toddler's hand, you MUST replace it with something else, (or you will make your problems much worse.)"
If you want to take away (from those of us who restore games) "restoration" for a playfield swap, as a general term ffs, what do you propose using as the upgraded term? Anything less than proposing an upgrade, is just annoying as F to everyone involved.
"I restore games..." (and I just did a playfield swap)
"I just did a 120 hour restoration on High Speed, with a playfield swap."
Improve those sentences for us (as examples) so they don't hurt your ears...
Yes we ALL know that a swap isn't a playfield restoration TECHNICALLY, but it gets the point across. Wondering where you saw making a great improvement to our pinball world here... I can't wait.
thanks,
-mof

Quoted from cottonm4:

Sounds like an extreme example of bait and switch.

Quoted from cottonm4:

Amazing how one word, "restoration" has generated so much verbiage.

Quoted from mtn-:

Playfield protector can be removed? Hardtop is permanent.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

No, one is a protector, the other is a replacement.

Quoted from Gotpins:

I agree. But, CPR had the same description for both products…gray paint and mirror.

Quoted from Haymaker:

remember guys, if you take the original playfield out and replace it with a newly manufactured one with clearcoat it IS a restoration. If you leave the original playfield in but make it just like a new playfield with very similar characteristics of a clearcoated playfield it IS NOT a restoration. LOGIC!

Quoted from Haymaker:

Everyone? I see way way more people saying they look and play great and its always just boomery old grumps who yell at the clouds about how bad they are. I'm in tune with games, probably to a fault. If it played radically different or poorly I'd be the first to notice. They play good.

Quoted from cottonm4:

My question: Since the OG play field will be gone, the back glass already replaced, and a cabinet swap, is it a restoration or a Frankenstein pin?

Quoted from pinballizfun:

but a fiberglass repro fender isn't as good as a steel repro or NOS. It might have utility for weight reduction if you plan to race it, but its not the preferred way on a restore.

Quoted from MiniPinHead:

Why is QAing playfields a lot of work?

Quoted from newovad:

I'm sure folks will stockpile a few since they didn't make many of this game for scratch builds. The real curious question is who is going to make a playfield harness?

Quoted from RCA1:

So, Mirco is just going to continue refusing to return cottonm4's playfield.

Quoted from MiniPinHead:

For better or worse, not much has changed.

Quoted from cottonm4:

I want to see my play field, or play fields, before I say anything, but the white ink on my Dragonfist was not the clearest. Sort of like the ink was a little thin and bled some. I was hoping to see that corrected but apparently it looks like it was not.
What I do notice from this pic is that Mirco is still sanding his play fields with the heavier grit sandpaper. You can see the sanding marks in the inserts. Especially in the red insert on the right. The heavier grit sanding leaves the inserts cloudy. Both my Quicksilver play fields had inserts sanded like this.
[quoted image]
With this other pic, you can see the white ink does not look clear. It looks fuzzy. The whites look exactly like my play field. Even though it has been 3 years, I remember the fuzzy white ink.
[quoted image]

Quoted from Coyote:

Every. Facking. Playfield he does has something like this. I mean, once or twice? Sure, I can see that. But the about of times he seems to have artwork issues really beats the odds. Like they're ALL "rush jobs".
Which is amusing, since he had the donor PF for 3 years, and was "working on the art" forever.

Quoted from golfingdad1:

Quality Control....
[quoted image]

Quoted from Williampinball:

He will say but it's with in lines lol

Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Nope, not if cleared correctly.

Quoted from cottonm4:

I have planted a post in the upper left arch area to check for pooling.

Quoted from Warzard:

I wonder if Mirco, who read pinside and use it, could share his side of the story and answer to the other questions/critics.

Quoted from Anony:

I'm pretty sure his side of the story is that he has his plate full with JJP.

Quoted from MiniPinHead:

Is Mirco holding another playfield hostage?
I don’t disagree that some (maybe all) of these reproduction playfields need some corrections, but how Cotton is reporting them seems to be the best way to do it, in order to help other Pinsiders who want a Dragonfist and helping Mirco hopefully correct them. I’m doing the same with White Water (I know others before me have done the same, but not all issues were caught).
I’m just grateful a reproduction of a playfield I need is available and looks crisp and sharp. Makes me want to help improve it for others, not bash Mirco because something might have been missed.

Quoted from MiniPinHead:

It's encouraging when the argument stoops to ad hominem.
Be productive, get more details on the djblouw Centaur playfield
Dragon Fist is done here

Quoted from Davi:

Mirco is using a state of the art machinery. It's not based on rumour it's a fact (I don't want to break an NDA).
In manufacturing industry, for a good result, machine is only one element.
Man, machine, method. If one of these is weak, the end results is also weak.

Quoted from cottonm4:

Agreed. He does have something new for making plastics. I treat most emails as proprietary. I don't want to reveal what I was told in an email but he does have something new for making plastics.

Quoted from seshpilot:

Yet another Mirco playfield that has pooling around the posts: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-quicksilver-16#post-7864467

Quoted from cottonm4:

Is is pooling in that For Sale thread. All I see are two inlane guide holes pooling. But more will probably come. That pin needs the rubber washer treatment.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

It looks like all the posts have silicon washers under them. I'm not seeing any pooling in those 2 photos...just the washers.

Quoted from cottonm4:

Good point. It could be silicone washers. But it sure looks like pooling. To me, anyway.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

It might not be true for all types of clearcoat but a car painter told me that normally the clear dries in like x hours (can't remember exactly his stated time) and that all extra "dry time" is unnecessary.

Quoted from transprtr4u:

And then what?
Another posted picture of the back of his head ?

Quoted from High_End_Pins:

This one looks more like a clear coated over overlay.
You can see the halo around the switch cut out.
I remember trying these out back in 2004 when they came out with a similar result and never thought about using one again.

Quoted from Pastor69:

Same with my Medieval Madness playfield recently bought in january.
I have a feeling this might not even be Mirco himself, but one of his shitty employees. Good chance someone sent the playfield back after seeing the insert stuff, and then a dumbass employee saw your order and grabbed the faulty returned playfield anyway..

Quoted from NYP:

I hear you when you say it's not about the money, thought you might get a kick out of how I handled a problem with a Theatre of Magic playfield I got from him a while ago.
[quoted image]

Quoted from ottodawg:

It's too bad they won't just sell you a "raw" playfield sans clearcoat. The material & artwork seem mostly ok, then you could just add your own CC job...

Quoted from ottodawg:

Well in that picture it appears the CC adhered to the green, but the green didn't adhere to the white layer underneath. Looks like the white is still adhered to the wood. Regardless, I wonder if they are rushing them to CC before the artwork ha time to setup. Just speculating, I have no clue about the actual process..

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

Cant wait to hear the responses from Mirco.

Quoted from paynemic:

Absurd. The QC there is headed by blind monkeys…

Quoted from EntityClay:

Is this your first restoration? It looks fantastic!

Quoted from flynnibus:

Speculation... but it seems to be more practical than "oh, we didn't know..."

Quoted from KJS:

Patrick Powers
Director of Service
Patrick Powers (Stern Pinball)
Feb 22, 2024, 1:15 PM CST
Hi Kurt,
The quality department viewed your video and said your playfield falls within the manufacturing specifications. I looked at several playfields in-house (pictures attached) and they look similar to yours.
Thank you,
Patrick Powers
Director of Service
Tech Support 800.542.5377

Quoted from Anony:

Stern does not do quality control on every machine.

Quoted from ASAC_Schrader:

The playfield is fine. You can zoom in to any playfield and right lighting and find squiggly things.
Honestly this hobby is weird. Just play the fucking game

Quoted from Jigz:

Come on now, that playfield may be fine but the clearcoat is trash. I could rattle can one better with my eyes closed.

Quoted from cliff_clavin:

I would take the offer and return the machine. Social media pressure will not do anything in my book.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's the orange peel stranger things playfield's world now, the rest of us just live in it.

Quoted from pjflyer:

I resemble that remark.

Quoted from pjflyer:

My plasma cutter does that with metal.

Quoted from Zitt:LOL. You havent been paying attention.
I'm not sure he's that... smart. Look what he did to HEP.

Quoted from CLEllison:

But once you do have that experience, you simply cannot go back to "off the shelf" clear jobs. What a curse.

Quoted from CLEllison:

In all fairness, one would have to assume your Flash was completely clapped out and worn out. Anything would seem wickedly fast after that.
If you've played on a professionally (not off the shelf) cleared table and you think it's equivalent, then that's a win for you!

Quoted from pjflyer:

In essence nothing will change. Move along, nothing to see here.

Quoted from Anony:

He's using a damn CNC machine, how the hell do things not line up? Or do those guide holes on the bottom get drilled in by hand? If so he should be using templates to ensure they line up every time.

Quoted from slochar:

Nope there's always dimples that are off. The remakes they use originals to plot the dimples but they're always off. I prefer none as well.