(Topic ID: 272125)

Mirco Playfields - WARNING for potential buyers

By Kobaja

4 years ago


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#2951 35 days ago

My experience from Mirco playfields is that the inserts are often badly glued. If you hammer in the T-nuts there is a high risk of the inserts moving. You need to press the T-nuts, which is the preferred safe way of cause regardless of manufacturer, but the problem seems more common with Mirco playfields.

#2952 35 days ago
Quoted from Bundy:

My experience from Mirco playfields is that the inserts are often badly glued. If you hammer in the T-nuts there is a high risk of the inserts moving. You need to press the T-nuts, which is the preferred safe way of cause regardless of manufacturer, but the problem seems more common with Mirco playfields.

Good advice! Thank you

Didn’t hammer the t nuts and this occurred after 1-2 months from receipt:

MircoMirco

MircoMirco

Not enough to tear apart the paint/artwork, or even to notice up close after a reclear, but unacceptable without repairing the playfield. Was consistent across all inserts of sizes/shapes, and all the same extremely minor depth.

#2953 35 days ago

Who makes Sterns playfields? Anyone know?

#2954 35 days ago
Quoted from Skatewake:

Who makes Sterns playfields? Anyone know?

Stern.

#2956 35 days ago
Quoted from Skatewake:

Who makes Sterns playfields? Anyone know?

They are printed at Rockford Silk Screen Process but they do not do the clear there. I'm not sure who does the clear, I kind of think Stern is doing it in house because I seem to remember Gomez or somebody talking about that, but I could be wrong. It could be another vender doing the clear.

#2957 35 days ago

It used to be stern cut them in house then sent to multiple vendors for art and clear. But I thought very recently they took it all in house. My info is as of my tour in 2019.

#2958 35 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

It used to be stern cut them in house then sent to multiple vendors for art and clear. But I thought very recently they took it all in house. My info is as of my tour in 2019.

RSSP does all their PF's, plastics, decals, translites, ect. I think the backglasses too but I'm not sure on that. Stern very well could be doing the cutting and clearing in house and maybe some of the other processes too but they are not printed in house, I can promise you that much. RSSP may even subcontract for other pf companies and other pinball companies but thats just a very very dark rumor and almost certainly false...anyway I've already said too much.

15
#2959 35 days ago

I have noticed that if I get a pf from mirco or cpr that has just been made it has a nice flat finish when it gets here, but 5 months later it looks very different. If you buy a title that doesnt have a lot of love and the pf is more than a year old, The pf arrives and the surface is not flat. On cpr the wood grain is sometimes expanded like the grove on a record. mirco also, but to a lesser extent. now that they do their clear before they cut, and its so flat, when the wood cures, it pushes the inserts up. Think about it, they get a stack of wood that is shrink wrapped, and stacked. I dont know how long their process takes to make them, but when they are made to order, as they are with both makers, (more or less), That pf gets taken off the wrapped stack, cut printed and produced and shipped in one week I am guessing. So that sheet has not been separated until now, and its going to start to finish drying.
This has been happening for 15 years. This is nothing new. I remember when I bought the first run of black knight and got a t shirt with it. I put it in my spare bedroom and forgot about it for a year. Once I remembered it, I looked at it and the inserts were either much higher or sunk, I dont remember which. The wood grain was raised, the pf was twisted. Back then it was 600 bucks and my guts just dropped. there was cracking in the clear around the inserts that moved a lot. I thought the pf was garbage. I got it right. I am guessing that was around '09. i dont remember. Its a part of daily life for me.

I tell my customers the only way to avoid it is to allow the pf to cure for some months before, I sand it flat and reclear it. I have several pfs here that got sent straight here from the maker. They are sitting in that extra room for at least 4 months. After about 3 months I can tell if it is going to be one that moves a lot, because the grain and inserts have all ready moved. Sometimes I will clear a pf as soon as it gets here because the customer wants it done. 6 months later occasionally there is insert movement. It kills me because I block sanded it glass-flat. I have the best luck if we allow a pf to cure 4, 6, 8, months before I get started. The other advantage to waiting is you can decide if the stock clear looks good enough for you, or it looks like crap. Then I will sand it down and do my work on it.

I just sold my 40 plus year old NOS speak easy pf. it was made of a resin. the inserts were perfectly flat. wood is an organic material which means it is never 100% predictable. Then add the process of layering different layers at different angles with glue. Lots of room for mistake or material variance. It just is what it is.

In my opinion the makers are doing the best they can with a mass production process. It could be much better but its going to cost more. Its very common for me to put 34 man hours in to a clear coat. That cant be done on a big scale. The way it is, you have a choice. you can install immediately and wait and see, what did they used to say? spray and prey. Or you can wait 5 months and decide if you want someone to level it out and put a good clear on it that will be almost no friction. Or you may decide you are good with it. Its not a perfect situation, but pfs are a huge part of my life and that is how I see it.

Just some info for you. Another opinion. Figured I would share mine.

#2960 35 days ago

I just went thru my stacks of pfs. Mirco, cpr, JJP, stern, buthamberg, and rick and morty. All of the makers have some that the inserts and or grain is raised. its not as often on the sterns, but some of that may be because their pfs dont seem to start out as flat as glass like the others. I got a simpsons here with cracks in the clear around the inserts, as well as a tron that looks horrible. Some dont, Including all makers. I am not going to favor anyone but one of the makers seems to have the issue on 75% of the pfs I have. Hopefully its job security for me.

#2961 35 days ago

forgot to say there are lots of pics of this effect on my thread. Often I will take a before pic on the really bad ones. Just go back a couple pages from here and you will see plenty:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kruzman-monthly-playfield-thread/page/95#post-8210327

#2962 35 days ago

Last one I promise
some pfs the inserts sink. I was sanding a JJP ww and the little inserts that are less than 1 cm had to be sanded by hand because they sunk so much that my da sander hit the wood before it hit the top of the clear on those little inserts.

Lucky there is a guy who has made is life about working on pfs, as sad as that is to say. You can get it right if you want it.

#2963 35 days ago
Quoted from kruzman:

In my opinion the makers are doing the best they can with a mass production process. It could be much better but its going to cost more. Its very common for me to put 34 man hours in to a clear coat. That cant be done on a big scale.

Agreed. Perfection is not affordable.

I can see 34 hours in a clear coat job. Easy.

#2964 34 days ago

Yes Ron is the guy that would know he has seen the best to everything and he’s the one that has to take tons of hours to fix them all way to go Ron your the best trust Ron with this one

#2965 34 days ago
Quoted from Williampinball:

Yes Ron is the guy that would know he has seen the best to everything and he’s the one that has to take tons of hours to fix them all way to go Ron your the best trust Ron with this one

Agreed! Conjecture and opinion have nothing on experience like that of Ron’s. When you’re warned inserts might shift after you receive a new playfield and then you see them drop, it really sinks in

#2966 34 days ago

Ron, you didn't mention CGC. Have you re-done any of their playfields? Are they better/worse/same as the other manufacturers you mentioned?

Are they the only one still doing screen printing? Does that make any kind of difference?

#2967 34 days ago
Quoted from kruzman:

I just sold my 40 plus year old NOS speak easy pf. it was made of a resin. the inserts were perfectly flat. wood is an organic material which means it is never 100% predictable. Then add the process of layering different layers at different angles with glue. Lots of room for mistake or material variance. It just is what it is.

Lol I just want to know who needed a NOS speakeasy playfield? On every Speakesy I've ever seen the playfield still looks brand new! That resin playfield is a tank!

#2968 34 days ago

Here is an interesting observation. I am currently restoring my AFM with the original, near-perfect playfield. I have started replacing the screws for the metal walls and whatnot, and I am noticing that these screws can certainly torque down tighter on my AFM PF compared to every repro PF I have touched in the last few years.

Just for tests and giggles, I GREATLY over-torqued a couple of screws in the AFM PF, and if I did the same thing in a repro PF including the Mirco, the holes would have stripped out for sure. The contrast is pretty striking here. I guess this indicates the difference in the quality of wood being used. Of course that has already been discussed quite a bit on this thread.

Just like anything else today, I suspect the some of the manufacturers and reproducers are buying materials on price first, quality second. That is doable on many components that go into a pin, but NOT on the PF, as we already know all to well.

#2969 34 days ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

On every Speakesy I've ever seen the playfield still looks brand new! That resin playfield is a tank!

I've only worked on one Speakeasy:
- The resin playfield was warped and cracked thanks to the split rail support on one edge and weight of the roulette assembly.
- Underside screw holes easily strip.
- Heat discoloration in the resin from incandescents noticeable near some inserts.

#2970 34 days ago
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

, I GREATLY over-torqued a couple of screws in the AFM PF, and if I did the same thing in a repro PF including the Mirco, the holes would have stripped out for sure. The contrast is pretty striking here. I guess this indicates the difference in the quality of wood being used.

You can't really compare the harder Maple playfield to the softer Birch playfield

It's not that the Maple is more "quality", it's just a much harder wood.

#2971 34 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

I've only worked on one Speakeasy:
- The resin playfield was warped and cracked thanks to the split rail support on one edge and weight of the roulette assembly.
- Underside screw holes easily strip.
- Heat discoloration in the resin from incandescents noticeable near some inserts.

I played a Speakeasy at Denver Showdown 3-4 years ago. The ball moved in strange ways. It led me to believe the play field was cupped/bowed in the center as the ball seemed to always want to go to the center. I don't know if that was the problem, but something about that pin was off.

#2972 34 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can't really compare the harder Maple playfield to the softer Birch playfield
It's not that the Maple is more "quality", it's just a much harder wood.

Okay that makes perfect sense. Apples and oranges, did not know that. I am assuming they no longer use maple due to the higher cost.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#2973 34 days ago
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

Okay that makes perfect sense. Apples and oranges, did not know that. I am assuming they no longer use maple due to the higher cost.[quoted image]

Mirco uses birch because its more readily available over in his neck of the woods. Most US/Canada PF's still use Maple if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure Vid will correct me if I'm wrong (please do)

#2974 34 days ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Mirco uses birch because its more readily available over in his neck of the woods. Most US/Canada PF's still use Maple if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure Vid will correct me if I'm wrong (please do)

Wood puns!

#2975 34 days ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Mirco uses birch because its more readily available over in his neck of the woods. Most US/Canada PF's still use Maple if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure Vid will correct me if I'm wrong (please do)

The USA & Canada farms plenty of Maple for syrup production

Europe does not have the proper climate to farm Maple for large scale production.

That's why bowling alley, countertops and roller rinks are maple; cheap, hard, wood.

Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
#2976 34 days ago
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

Here is an interesting observation. I am currently restoring my AFM with the original, near-perfect playfield. I have started replacing the screws for the metal walls and whatnot, and I am noticing that these screws can certainly torque down tighter on my AFM PF compared to every repro PF I have touched in the last few years.

Just for tests and giggles, I GREATLY over-torqued a couple of screws in the AFM PF, and if I did the same thing in a repro PF including the Mirco, the holes would have stripped out for sure. The contrast is pretty striking here. I guess this indicates the difference in the quality of wood being used. Of course that has already been discussed quite a bit on this thread.

Just like anything else today, I suspect the some of the manufacturers and reproducers are buying materials on price first, quality second. That is doable on many components that go into a pin, but NOT on the PF, as we already know all to well.

I notice this all of the time. It is as true as the day is long. I will comment on what I know. I have a guy here in kalamazoo that is from a dutch family that has been making board wood for 4 generations. I met them because I needed to match crown trim that was all of 10 inches and I couldnt match it. this was back in about 98 (pre first rehab, which is how I keep track of time). I asked him and he said that he will make blades from your scrap piece and they keep the blades and have my name on them, and I can get as much made as I want. It was like 280 to have the blades made.
Anyway I wanted to get some plywood made for pfs, and I took him a repro from about 2017 and a nos TZ, and he showed me the difference. First we talked about the spotted owl that he says changed the wood business during the first Bush years. He told me that the repro looked like black gum wood with 2 very thin birch or maple I dont remember, vaneers on the top and bottom. He explained how it looks like a manufactured product for cupboards that will be painted. The middle wood is some soft wood and is often made when pretty wet. He mentioned that its often common that some layers will be bark or not structural layers, which is where you get your twisting. I dont remember what the old nos pf wood was, but it was basically 4 or 6 layers of regular wood for the middle and then a laminate about 3 times thicker than the one on the repro.

Most of the manufactured wood products made now are made for a specific use because if they are used for something else they wont work. Often they are made of chips with some fiber laid out in different directions and a lot of glue. the glue being the strongest part of the wood. so I can imagine, like particle board, screws dont bite as well.

I dont think that even if you have the money, you can get good wood, for the amount the pf makers use.

I would never buy a house built after the 90's. My sisters starter mansion had engineered floor joices. rather that 2x10's they were made of, like half inch particle board, glued in an I beam configuration. I have seen the trim on 400k houses made from MDF. I think its called. basically molded plastic and foam. So why would the pinball industry be any different. I have heard wade complain about buying the best wood he can find and sometimes some of it is unusable and split laminate.

I dont know. junk material is a bummer. I have owned houses that even the wall studs were hardwood. Then days is done. Most of what I wrote is irrevelent, and kinda like the 2 old guys in the balcony before the muppet show. If you are too young to know what I am talking about, thats what I mean. Just bitchin about this new rock and roll b.s.

#2977 34 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Ron, you didn't mention CGC. Have you re-done any of their playfields? Are they better/worse/same as the other manufacturers you mentioned?
Are they the only one still doing screen printing? Does that make any kind of difference?

Which titles have they made? sorry I dont know a lot about the new games, except when the pfs come in. I still laugh every time I think about financing 100% of my Godzilla. I am so ghetto, I put zero down and owe 6k on it. My next newest game is 2002 stern playboy. I have more games than I should but they are all old. I am interested in which pfs you are referring to, though.
Right now I am doing a AFM from the Game repro in 2015 I think it was. It has the number and the number made. they made 1540 pfs it looks like.
Great print though its an easy board to screen. The wood grain is lifted so it could be seen and felt and the inserts were dropped, though not bad. I would call it very average. At least no problem to make perfect. If you look at the pics which I didnt take to make this point, you can see the grain really popped up. This would still work if it were installed. There would be plenty of friction which would cause it to wear quick. It feels thinner than the nos, but I have not measured. I laid the dimple template on the top and its right on for the most part as the original. I have to measure it with the calipers to see if it is thinner, because it is being swapped with a WPC 89 or 91 original, so I dont want the screws going thru.

When this pf was new is was very smooth. Also you can see that many of the inserts have hairline cracks in the key lines around them. I will have to fill and paint those also. I removed all of the t nuts on both sides.

I have seen clearcoated pfs for sale with the mylar under the clear before. Probably about 5 times in my experiences

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#2978 33 days ago

If you pound a t nut in to a pf, if you haven't thought of this all ready try it.
If you put the pf on your bench and put down a couple 2-3 foot 2x4's with towels over them, put the 2x4 under the pf directly under the t nut. This way the force will go straight thru the pf in to that 2x4, rather than reverb all thru the pf.
You dont want to be smacking the t nuts in the pf while its on the roticery unless you have to.

I am not a know it all and I am not a pro at swapping pfs, but I have one more suggestion: get the clear out of the t nut depression before installing it. One of the many ways to do it is with the dremmil and a bit from my pf install kit (for pfs with clear coats including repro pfs). Its depressing when the teeth fold or the clear is a couple years old and very hard. I grind it right out and push it on my muscular thumb.

#2979 33 days ago
Quoted from kruzman:

My sisters starter mansion had engineered floor joices. rather that 2x10's they were made of, like half inch particle board, glued in an I beam configuration.

I was with you on crappy foam and MFD trim (although crown molding could be MDF, and it would be fine)

But engineered I-Joists are superior to 2x12s in every way.

Stiffer, stronger, longer, more fire resistant, faster to layout, faster to run mechanicals (they are pre-punched near the ends to run plumbing/wiring)

You know how new basements don't have stantion posts anymore, floors don't bounce or squeak anymore, floors are dead flat without crowning anymore...?

You can thank the I-joist for all that.

King of stiff floorsKing of stiff floors

#2980 33 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I was with you on crappy foam and MFD trim (although crown molding could be MDF, and it would be fine)
But engineered I-Joists are superior to 2x12s in every way.
Stiffer, stronger, longer, more fire resistant, faster to layout, faster to run mechanicals (they are pre-punched near the ends to run plumbing/wiring)
You know how new basements don't have stantion posts anymore, floors don't bounce or squeak anymore, floors are dead flat without crowning anymore...?
You can thank the I-joist for all that.
[quoted image]

Oriented strand board is strong stuff. Even if it gets wet, it will not fall apart like MDF. And it does not warp.

#2981 33 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I was with you on crappy foam and MFD trim (although crown molding could be MDF, and it would be fine)
But engineered I-Joists are superior to 2x12s in every way.
Stiffer, stronger, longer, more fire resistant, faster to layout, faster to run mechanicals (they are pre-punched near the ends to run plumbing/wiring)
You know how new basements don't have stantion posts anymore, floors don't bounce or squeak anymore, floors are dead flat without crowning anymore...?
You can thank the I-joist for all that.
[quoted image]

Interesting. No posts are a bonus. The first thing that came to mind is what happens if there is water damage? It seems that they would not continue to hold weight if they got wet once?

#2982 33 days ago
Quoted from kruzman:

Interesting. No posts are a bonus. The first thing that came to mind is what happens if there is water damage? It seems that they would not continue to hold weight if they got wet once?

The I-joists are made of Exterior OSB, so they can get wet (as they do during the framing of any house).

If you ever visit a jobsite, you know that every piece of framing gets rained or snowed on continually, until the roofing is applied.

Snow, on my birthday???Snow, on my birthday???

#2983 33 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The I-joists are made of Exterior OSB, so they can get wet (as they do during the framing of any house).
If you ever visit a jobsite, you know that every piece of framing gets rained or snowed on continually, until the roofing is applied.
[quoted image]

My i-joists warped. They weren't supposed to, but they did. I ended up levelling out 1100 sqft with self levelling concrete. However, there's no way that a 2x10 or 12 could do the spans that I have.

#2984 33 days ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

My i-joists warped. They weren't supposed to, but they did.

Bad batch or something?

Never heard of that happening.

I've got a couple 9' scraps laying in the dirt behind my greenhouse; still straight.

Quoted from yaksplat:

However, there's no way that a 2x10 or 12 could do the spans that I have.

Let alone the price.

28 foot 2x12" are like $130 each

28 foot 2x12 I-joists are like $60

#2985 33 days ago
Quoted from kruzman:

I have owned houses that even the wall studs were hardwood. Then days is done.

Can confirm. My house was built in 1904, all the wall studs are hardwood, hell the floors and roof are tongue & groove construction.

#2986 33 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Can confirm. My house was built in 1904, all the wall studs are hardwood, hell the floors and roof are tongue & groove construction.

My office was built in 1831 and my studs are a mix of 2x4 and 4x4 (a full 2 and 4 inches) red oak.

#2987 33 days ago
Quoted from Riefepeters:

My office was built in 1831 and my studs are a mix of 2x4 and 4x4 (a full 2 and 4 inches) red oak.

Real 2x4 here as well which was a PITA when I had to do a wall repair. Ended up ripping 2x6's down to 4"

#2988 33 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I was with you on crappy foam and MFD trim (although crown molding could be MDF, and it would be fine)
But engineered I-Joists are superior to 2x12s in every way.
Stiffer, stronger, longer, more fire resistant, faster to layout, faster to run mechanicals (they are pre-punched near the ends to run plumbing/wiring)
You know how new basements don't have stantion posts anymore, floors don't bounce or squeak anymore, floors are dead flat without crowning anymore...?
You can thank the I-joist for all that.
[quoted image]

I hate to continue the exit at traction avenue here but...
I was with you until you hit fire resistance. I'm a 20+ year FF. Without some external protection, no they do not perform better than dimensional.

Q. Do laminated veneer lumber (LVL) and wood I-beams have a lower fire rating than conventional wood framing members? If so, have the model codes addressed this?

A.Individual LVL members or wood I-beams won’t resist fire as well as the solid wood members they replace. However, fire ratings are based on assemblies, not individual members. Several manufacturers of LVL and wood I-beams have obtained fire ratings on whole floor and ceiling assemblies by using their products with a Type X drywall facing the interior. For example, a one-hour fire-resistant ceiling assembly using TJI joists requires two layers of 1/2 inch Type X drywall applied to the bottom joist flange. A comparable one-hour assembly using solid-sawn joists requires one layer of 5/8 inch Type X drywall.

Since there are no "generic" wood I-beams (each is engineered to perform in specific ways) there is no generic assembly that achieves a certain fire rating. Each manufactured product and assembly must be approved after testing by a certified laboratory. Check with the manufacturer for each product you use. There are several small manufacturers whose volume does not justify the expense of obtaining a fire rating, and their products cannot be used where a fire rating is required.

#2989 33 days ago
Quoted from bakerhillpins:

I hate to continue the exit at traction avenue here but...
I was with you until you hit fire resistance. I'm a 20+ year FF. Without some external protection, no they do not perform better than dimensional.

I'm a level 2 volunteer FF (yeah, I live in the boonies).

When a tree fell on the kitchen of my house, they demo-ed it back to the foundation.

New I-joists were installed, but because it's a kitchen with a ton of ever changing mechanicals, the builder cautioned against a conventional drywall ceiling in that section of the basement.

He said they either lay type-x gypsum panels between the joists (easy to remove for access) or they screw type-x drywall to the ceiling, but don't glue or tape it.

They also have flameblock I-joists, but that would not look good in my finished basement, lol

I chose the panels, with white aluminum C-channel caps over the bottom of the joists. When I put in the RO water unit, I was glad I chose the panels!!

block me from flameblock me from flame

fbijoistmockup (resized).pngfbijoistmockup (resized).png

#2990 33 days ago

When we added on I requested dimensional lumber only. There are some large spans so steal I beam in the basement but there is an LVL in the attic floor that takes care of the upper span (really nice looking beam by the way). Pretty sure some local codes will not let you use I joists without a fire rated surface beneath the I joists. I joists are only as good as the sum of the whole, so when one part fails its structural capacity is reduced (though I guess you could argue that a 2x12 can just decide to split on its own). It is very easy for floor installers to damage the top 2x3 of the I joist. Its your typical junk material of today that is just not going to last as long as the older materials used. But on the other hand, most of the wood today is crap.

#2991 33 days ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

Pretty sure some local codes will not let you use I joists without a fire rated surface beneath the I joists.

You should ALWAYS have insulation or Sheetrock in the bays (unless you got the Flameblock I-joists, like in a bar or cafe where you want exposed beams)

Quoted from pinstyle:

I guess you could argue that a 2x12 can just decide to split on its own

Usually they start twisting the moment you cut the bands off the bundles.

Then you have to "sight" each one so the curve of the wood faces skyward.

Toss all the junkers aside to either be cut into shorter lengths, or returned for credit.

-

It was good to be cautious at first, but it's been 3+ decades proving I-joists to be the winner

#2992 33 days ago

As entertaining as lumber discussion is ... It's a distraction at how defective mirco's product is. It remains a low class substitute for existing machine's

#2993 33 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Ron, you didn't mention CGC. Have you re-done any of their playfields? Are they better/worse/same as the other manufacturers you mentioned?
Are they the only one still doing screen printing? Does that make any kind of difference?

Quoted from kruzman:

Which titles have they made? sorry I dont know a lot about the new games, except when the pfs come in.

CGC does the remakes for MM, AFM, MB, and CC (as well as the new Pulp Fiction). They supposedly made the playfields and cabinets for Williams back in the day (as Chicago Cabinet). If anyone has access to "good wood" I would think it would be them, but of course, they could easily have the same supply issues too. Have you ever worked on any of the remakes?

#2994 33 days ago

If a refake had issues this early; we'd already know about it.

#2995 32 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

If anyone has access to "good wood" I would think it would be them,

now we know why it takes them years to produce a game .... announce game , order parts , plant sapling !

#2997 32 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

CGC does the remakes for MM, AFM, MB, and CC (as well as the new Pulp Fiction). They supposedly made the playfields and cabinets for Williams back in the day (as Chicago Cabinet). If anyone has access to "good wood" I would think it would be them, but of course, they could easily have the same supply issues too. Have you ever worked on any of the remakes?

Supposedly? Here's a Whirlwind head.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

#2998 32 days ago

For some reason I remember them as Churchill cabinets?

#2999 32 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

For some reason I remember them as Churchill cabinets?

That’s them. Same address as CGC.

#3000 32 days ago
Quoted from Zitt:

If a refake had issues this early; we'd already know about it.

It wouldn't have to have "issues". Some people get their playfields re-cleared beforehand so they WON'T have issues. Furthermore, some people bought new remake playfields as replacements for their original "blown out" fields.

It is certainly possible that Ron has encountered their playfields in some capacity (good or bad) already. Hence my question...

(and some people HAVE complained about their remake playfield dimpling - which I would think would be an indication of softer wood)

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