So your basing this “anomaly” off of posts you see on pinside? I would agree a review section might shed more clear light on this as I know plenty of people who do not waste their time posting on Pinside.

I just received a STTNG playfield from Mirco. It's for a playfield swap I'm doing for a local op friend. This game is going to get beat up bad at this location. It's going to get a ton of plays.

Artwork looks amazing. Are there slight color differences from the original and slight registration issues? Sure, but no one is going to give a shit once this game is on location. Even if it was going in my collection, I wouldn't care.

I will say, there isn't much clear on it. Like, not much at all.

What I don't like at all is the fact that he CNC's all the holes for lamps, posts, scoops, etc. after printing and clearing. It's the last thing that gets done. This results in razor sharp edges. LOTS of them. I can only imagine what's going to happen when a ball hits the sharp edge of say a scoop hole.

What I've done is cut strips of sandpaper and sanded the edges of every sharp edged hole so it's more of a rounded edge. Now it's going to my buddy's body shop where he'll put 4 coats of clear on it, spraying in all 4 directions so all edges of holes gets sealed. It then gets sanded and buffed.

Then, John and I will cross our fingers.

To everyone saying quit buying and Mirco will change his ways, some like my buddy John have no choice. His original STTNG is beyond help.

Perhaps Mirco can learn a thing or two from these guys at B&T Automaten Vert. GmbH

https://www.facebook.com/buthamburg.de/

Man I’m sorry. That sucks.

Is this maybe the reason why the artwork and clear pulls away from the posts ("pooling")? I have seen this suggested as a possible cause before. If the holes were cut out before the clear was sprayed, the clear would seal that edge and the interior of the hole, keeping it from pulling away. In this case, the clear ends at the edge of the wood and maybe has even been lifted by the cutting process?

Not everyone airs their dirty laundry here. As hard to believe as that may be. I fought this guy for over a year and ultimately the distributor I bought the playfield from ate the replacement cost. Lots of details I could go into. But, at the end of the day, Micro blamed me, the distributor, and the well respected pinball restorer for every fault. This guy was a nightmare to deal with and it doesn't surprise me he abandoned the TOTAN 2.0 project and left those poor owners in the dust. I'd burn my pinball in the street before I ever sent Mirco another penny for a new playfield.

I 2nd this, and that goes for any manufacturer using his products in their games. He left TPF early last year I believe.

“Breaking the edge" is a technique well known to painters. It puts a small bevel on the corner.

The reason for this is paint flow. The paint's thickness is reduced as it flows over and around the corner to the adjacent surface. The sharper the corner, the more pronounced this effect. The slightly rounded or beveled edge permits better flow and gives you a slightly thicker paint film, which will be more durable.

I disagree with Robin’s argumentation that it is only a very small amount of complaints.

Sure, in this thread maybe. But:
My POTC was pooling/chipping. There are hundreds of games with this problem.

Then GnR: same problem if not worse with pooling chipping.
I know 2 other GnR owners and they have this issue too. I’m not believing it is just a very few games.
GnR thread has plenty of complaints.
Maybe ask Pinmonk how many silicon sets he sells.
And this is only about the clearcoat issue.
I invite anyone to visit the TBL owners thread and you can see there tens of cases already reported there.
I can guarantee not every TBL owner is on pinside and/or reading that thread.

Now sure this is not the complete case but it does show there are many more issues than reported here if you look around or just look at his shop (only chipping/clear coat).

Then last, and most importantly : I could well live with a lot of things( imperfections, problems) if it weren’t for Mirco’s blunt and unrespectfuls treatment of customers and partners. He gets away with everything for the simple reason he is the only supplier, and he knows it. This will not be good for the community on the long run.
I hope he changes his behavior (and quality) in the future.

I disagree with Robin as well - likely nobody cares. He is a part of this problem with this hobby.

30 years ago, you were going to the store and buying Nintendo games with this seal on the box. Games were not cheap but validated and the quality of the game was hardly challenged by Nintendo. At the end, it was better for all the players: Nintendo market image, customer with good product and so on.

It would be great if PPS could really challenge Mirco with a better product and customer service and challenge him to not let him drop product without any support such as the Totan kit.

Also, I do agreed with the comment that pinside is far from the only place we talk pinball and Mirco, you can hear on angry customers and comment regarding the playfield on other places such as flipejuke, facebook groups, flippermarket and so on...

On my side, I have no pinball friends still ok to buy a Mirco playfield anymore. JJP might still be an exception since the pins are really apealing.

seal (resized).png

Hey. Language.

Yeah, there's no reason we should have to put up with that bad language grap...

Couldn't help myself...
Washers; the best mod

Just as a general point…it seems to me that if a playfield is having problems with clear (or clear and print) separation, aren’t washers just a “finger in the dike” solution? Won’t the problem continue around the washers?

It’s really unfortunate that Mirco doesn’t communicate about their product better. I’ve don’t playfield swaps on Whitewater and Spirit, both of which seemed like a very fine product which outshone all of the various CPR swaps I’ve performed. (Very nice finish, perfectly located dimpling, even the shipping packaging was a higher calibre.) But knowing what I do now about the failures people have experienced, definitely makes me wary going forward.
I hope some good comes of the effort to hold him to account - or that Buthamburg can start producing a broad range of titles…

I really think there is a simple solution to clear coat issues -- LET IT CURE. I have a couple homebrews, including ELF that has 2500+ plays on it from 3 shows, and it looks like it was just cleared. I also uses a vinyl overlay over wood (under the clear) which makes it more prone to ripples. I let my playfield sit for 90 days before I started to bolt anything on it. Most modern automotive clear coats dry from the outside in, it takes time to harden the inside. LET IT CURE !!

I don't have anything Mirco, but had a question:

Was the product good when it was silkscreened?

For a new playfield, here's what I'm generally looking for:

Correct artwork, correct alignment, reasonable color choices.
No wood knots or weird/distracting wood patterns in visible areas.
Flat wood
Correct inserts (style, shape, color)
Correct holes & slots
Mostly correct dimples
Level inserts
Flat clearcoat that doesn't sink, break apart, flake off, chip off, or come apart under posts.
Good warranty support if there are problems.

I realize there are a lot of steps there and a lot of attention to detail needs to take place. It's a complicated product. But it's also the most important product in a pinball machine. So, I'm willing (and have) dropped some decent coin on several new playfields over the years.

However, when I hear about issues with multiple items on the list multiple times, that kind of turns me off from dropping $1k+ on a product and instead has me looking elsewhere.

Basically, my consumer confidence in that I would receive a quality product is low, and I feel any sort of guarantee or warranty claim being fulfilled is questionable and may happen (or not) on a whim. I don't want to feel like I'm rolling the dice or taking a pull on a slot machine and simply cross my fingers and hope that I get something usable. That's just my perception of the situation based on 20+ pages of comments and multiple threads over the years. So, I simply haven't been willing to take the gamble. I want to click the buy button and have little question as to whether or not a product will be up to snuff, and if anything serious goes wrong, that I can have it remedied without much fuss. I want to buy Mirco playfields, but it just seems like a risky purchase to me.

Then comparatively, you can see how another company (Outside Edge) handles product issues in the post above.

On a side note, since every playfield doesn't come out perfect, I like the idea of a grading system (like CPR had with their gold/silver/bronze gradings). It gave you a better idea of what you could expect and what issues that buyers might or might not be willing to tolerate.

Really interesting read.
We can think that at 1000/1200 dollars a playfield which are mass produced by robot in a plant, there is a confortable margin so we could expect this is cover by a warranty.
Today the playfield is the key item in the pinball and it has to be perfect: this is sold to collectors who want to magnify their pinballs.

Remember when WMS, 30 years ago, were putting in the trash unused playfield such as Addams family and else. It means that, at the time it cost more to store them than to keep them, so it was not that expensive if it’s mass produced.

Today, everything shows that Mirco cares only to maximize margins everywhere. If its image is bad… so be it. He doesn’t care.

Several people have mentioned that the original playfields were not perfect, but are refering to NOS playfields that are still available. The majority of the NOS playfields still loafing around are the rejects that did not pass QA/QC from the original manufacturing runs. I would not consider this an equal comparison.

JFC just stop talking already

Low enough to have Jersey Jack change their warranty to not include playfields.

Pretty sure that GodFather has already reported issues here in various threads with the PFs.

Regardless; I think the point Highclasspinball isn't grasping is that you aren't making any friends with your attitude and general dismissive behavior. You hide behind all kinds of reasoning and "not my problem" behaviors.

A vast majority of us can read thru your bullsh1t and see that you are fundamentally not willing to "work with" a customer to resolve any would-be-problems. You claim ignorance. You claim someone else is at fault. You send minions in here to try and sway the crowd. You claim perfection.

The very name and branding you are claiming implies a quality and a customer support system that is so impressive that no one can claim better. "High Class" you aren't. Quality isn't in your DNA. You aren't the cats meow. FAR FROM IT

I know you aren't capable of self introspection ... We know you won't change your underlying nature or behavior. So; let's just agree that you shouldn't post here in this thread as your being disrespectful and dismissive of the real problems. But hopefully; you'll read this response ... decide to turn over a new leaf... and become the "high class" debutant you claim to be on paper.

I guess they don't teach in Germany that in Customer Service your customer doesn't care about everyone else - they care about how you will address THEIR issue.

The fact you make 20x playfields without issues doesn't matter to the customer who has a defective one in their hands.

The fact you made Toy Story without issue doesn't mean anything to a quicksilver buyer. That buyer may turn around and say "Great, make me a quicksilver playfield like you made the Tory Story PF then and ship it to me"

What matters most in customer service is not how often something happens - but how you act WHEN IT DOES happen.

Here you still keep deflecting and ignoring the actual interactions and products that were shit. You'll never learn.... because you're focused on all the wrong things.

"Low"? You have TEXT MISSING on your Twilight Zone playfield that - unless you just haven't updated your website - hasn't been fixed yet.

Of course it is updated. But you are right I have not updated the website...

Not a customer but Mirco would likely gain some points if he came clean with what he believes was the failures in the past. Robots going crazy at certain times during the production. Bad source of finish clear at times from bad product, expired or not stored properly, or maybe poor temperatures. He should figure out how to prep or manufacture playfields to not crack or chip the playfields. If it is such a low percentage of bad playfields, just send out free replacements! As for missing text, or poor art files maybe offer the customer credit towards future purchase. For playfields installed in games that were manufactured that he is the source of failure, over a free replacement.

People want to help out. I have never not told people how I did playfields for years with no known playfields having chipping, ink come off the playfields, or pooling. There are well known & not secret ways to manufacture playfields from a very tiny business, mid size, & full blown. Everyone has problems but you work through them for pinball playfields. I personally do not hold a grudge from being a Mirco target & the antics he came up with in the past.

Every manufacturer has issues from time to time with their playfields. I honestly don't know one that hasn't. It's how the manufacturer handles their customer service when problems arise. This guy goes on the defensive instantly and attacks. Yep, he attacks the customer he just collected a grand from and says good luck and it's YOUR fault it failed.

Hard to send the product back that becomes faulty after a ball starts rolling around. I’d like a Refund on my Funhouse playfield - I’ve already emailed you. How about taking care of the “small” percentage of issues in that fashion. You’ll get more praise and sales.

Your problem is that not only is your production complete SHIT but you and the way you support your customers is complete SHIT.

Product aside - I don’t want to do business with someone who treats their customers the way you do.. period.

But it's in the files... which can't be altered.

This is the point everyone is trying to make summed up in this one statement.

The playfield was printed incorrectly, and you say it is corrected. However, you care so little about the product you couldn't even bother to update your website. When asked by a customer / potential customer, who can only go off the information you provide on the website, you are dismissive and give "of course" as an answer.

For those who received the TZ playfields with the missing text, which is a large error, did you reach out to all them directly to offer replacements or refunds? I am going to guess NO. That would have been the correct business decision, and not wait for customers to come to you.

don't worry, it's still there. He is not in a hurry to change his website.

He think and knows he has fixed the issue, when ? how many were produced, for how long? probably a significant amount of TZ playfieds were shipped that way because the picture is there for some time. Updating the website is way too much effort. He is not ready to lose margin for such tiny thing, who cares, it's only a 1000 dollars playfield, right ? nor taking care of customers versus losing margin.

He is too big to fail.

What a joke... lol

mirco (resized).png

I don't know if I was the first to notice it, but I did get one of those playfields - I cannot return it, as it was for a trade for someone out in California doing a restore. He has the PF installed now, and this was over a year ago that I bought the field.. If it wasn't so long ago, I'd ping him for some kinda discount.

I haven't, because I know he'd just argue with me.

No point is right he won't do anything anyways I think everyone just don't buy from him anymore he will lose in the long run

because its in unchangeable source files which cannot be edited.
Or he can't at least offer a water slide decal kit to resolve. or offer a discount for the obvious error.
But you know; because "owners fault"

Is Mirco using left over Data East Stealth coating
You don’t t see it…but you know it’s there
And you know it isn’t there….when your playfield starts getting all messed up
123922F2-97EC-4F17-99AF-B48441E040BD (resized).jpeg

Maybe this instead Highclasspinball

Great point, I need to update the website ASAP thanks for the heads up.

No that’s professional and nice, we can’t have that now can we

SOURCE: https://www.planetarypinball.com/williamsbally-license-information

Screenshot 2023-03-23 at 12.06.37 AM (resized).png

"PPS often finds that projects it is working on or has planned is undermined by an unauthorized third party making an inferior, counterfeit product without approval."

"PPS has confirmed that many of these infringing products are grossly inferior to the real ones and some customers are paying hundreds of dollars for products that are simply not worth the money..."

Hmmmm?

Apparently authorized parties also make "grossly inferior" products "and some customers are paying hundreds of dollars for [licensed] products that are simply not worth the money."

Who is profiting? PPS

PPS Rights Overview.pdf

SOURCE: https://www.planetarypinball.com/about-us

"...there needs to be a chain for quality and safety for the parts. Often there are infringing parts which are sub-standard and this hurts the overall pinball hobby. With PPS, all parts are run through the approval process to insure the best part is able to reach the market."

Last updated: 2010

Screenshot 2023-03-23 at 1.14.13 AM (resized).png

.

Because you removed the artwork around the posts on TS4. A "fix" everyone else has known for quite some time. Why did you not do this on GNR? Will you start doing it on older games too? Will people be upset that it isn't just like the originals at that point? I'm not sure. Why does the art even need to be removed around posts to keep the issues from happening? Don't you think you should be working on that widely known problem?

Good point. "It's in the files"