He's got a point flynn... if you didn't buy anything, why should he answer to random peanut gallery people like you?

Rick asked a question of how does a company restore it's reputation. To which I responded.

Mirco's statement followed shortly after - and I used it as an example of failing to do the basic things I had pointed out in my message to Rick in regards to restoring confidence in a company. It's an illustration. I am his market - and I have bought his products in the past. The discussion was how do you restore my confidence in Mirco's product - not "I have an unanswered support issue".

Do I personally need to suffer before I can acknowledge the other well documented situations? Is only the person he tried to shutdown confronting him at public seminar allowed to interpret Mirco's response? Are only the customers who have been burned by him the ones allowed to voice disgust with his handling of the situation?

This is just the typical technique of trying to shrink the audience by trying to argue 'you aren't part of this' and trying to take the conversation behind closed doors. It's a technique that only serves HIM. He's already past the point of damage control but obviously is too entrenched to see it.

My GNR with a playfield supplied by him exhibited all the usual reported flaking issues - no I didn't goto Micro for that because I know he's an OEM in that situation - yet neither he nor JJP addressed that situation satisfactorily. The pattern of issues were strong enough I am holding back buying other new Micro products. My Micro replacement PFs from before were acceptable enough to not need a customer support engagement... but I did also paid that for that PPS inspection service to minimize my risk.

TLDR - just because I haven't been burnt now doesn't make me 'peanut gallery'. I'm a buyer of their products and the addressable market.

Thanks for the TLDR because I definitely don't read all the paragraphs you write. He was asking for specific issues from customers, of which you have none because you aren't one.

funny.. you read Micro's 860+ word post no problem... and find the follow-on exchange interesting enough.. but can't be bothered to read the retort before (for a second time) taking a side to dismiss me. You're skew here is plainly obvious larry.

I hope all people here on Pinside that have had problems with their playfields mail pictures as we finally have seem to gotten PPS and Mircos attention for once.

Seems like it shouldn't have been too hard for him to respond with something like "people who received playfields with wrong art such as on IJ, Whirlwind, and TZ were sent corrected playfields at no additional charge" if that's how it was truly resolved.

Mirco sold me a crummy playfield so the idea I'm biased for him is laughable, you couldn't be more wrong. That said, he was asking for feedback from customers and you're not a customer, it's that simple. You always type waaay too much and I stopped reading your books a long time ago. Have a good day.

The number of people with defective Quicksilver playfields should give anyone pause. The clear just peeling away around the posts is horrible. There is several documented cases.

skew against ME larry - but keep on with the hate instead of reading the message. It's your flow and easy to spot.

I'll happily answer your short posts, and there's definitely no hate for you, just no time for your long posts. In this particular case, my point is clear, he asked for feedback from customers, of which you are not, and you're butting in. Whatever reason you may have, I don't really care TBH. Now again, good day sir

Micro needs to demonstrate better customer service and better quality across multiple product lines.

For me he gets out of the dog house when Jjp has no pf issues for 3-4 products and no one publicly complains about "high class playfield" issues here on pinside.

Sorry, this vendor has been screwed the customer for years. It'll take that long to recover if ever.

To me it's funny that both show when there is a threat of a lawsuit. Speaks volumes.

Like I have said there is more playfield production being ramped up by the big players in the biz. Mirco is ramping up as he clearly states now, Buthamburg & Classic Playfield Reproductions have moved into new digs. CPR could likely ramp up more production with hiring more staff. The big manufacturers do not seem to have a problem getting playfields for the line. But seem to have a problem doing warranty claims quickly, or if at all (deniability). Some small producers still in the game, & some have been kicked in the nuts by the bigger players. A brutal job trying to make playfields which are not that easy a process!
Always here to help out those wanting my advice on playfield production. Rick still has the door open to license more production if he wants at Planetary Pinball. Hope Mirco the best with his robot production. I have never had any secrets about playfield production or restorations over the 15 years that I was a tiny player.

Exactly.
Basically, not a word on how to make it right for previous old customers, not a word for the lack of customer service and all the never refund or my fault aknoledge policy but... i mean, for a company this big, how come there is no real refund policy or real professional website ?

But, when we read the note, it’s more: look at how big my company is, how important all my business is, we are ready to launch new proucts, stay tune folks, you should be lucky yo have me in here with how important I am in the business.
Pathetic.

At least, this was braught to PPS attention and hopefully it will bring a new eye on the person and this business.

So, If i spent 30 hours rebuilding a Whirlwind before noticing your error, what is my recourse? Do i need to disassemble everything and send it back, pay for shipping, wait for a new pf and then rebuild it again?

Mr Steffen, what was the feedback at your last visit to a pinball show in the USA? Did ANYONE there provide information on possible playfields adherence issues?

Something has changed as JJP complaints seem to have dropped in the last year or so regarding nib pf issues.

I appreciate the monumental efforts it takes to produce playfields for obsolete pins, I really do. I’ve purchased many products directly from you with no issues at all. That being said, the amount of issues that have been documented on this website over time reflect a pattern of pushback from you Sir on customer complaints and concerns.

Perceived reputation is as important in a hobbyist culture as much as actual issues resolved. No one here is your enemy and if you will try to understand the passion we have for our pinball culture maybe you could try harder to resolve issues one person at a time.

Email sent

Please let us know how you go.

I did... and was utterly fobbed off. Like many other scorn customers of yours, I've been happily and proactively warning potential clients ever since.

I have a couple of Micro repro's. My most recent I spent a bunch of cash correcting the clearcoat which was downright garbage. Now however, it's gorgeous. A lot of what Mirco do is absolutely fantastic, the rest makes me want to run into him in a dark alley. Pull your head out of your ass and become a pinball supplier that people love!

I’ve had an issue with Radcals, and contacted Mirco about this.
Like many others, I got the response that he won’t help out -> ‘it is like that’.
I just gave up after that, knowing his reputation.

I’ll write to PPS about this and post pictures here later in a separate review.

There are not just a few complaints, there are hundreds if not thousands. Just not everybody posts here or reads this. Or they write directly to JJP or DP. Look at the printing errors on playfields and the recent big lebowski playfield chipping/pooling.

I think the community would be less angry if there would be more support from the manufacturers and pressure on mirco instead of denying the problem with playfield quality or defending mirco.

JJP excludes playfields from warranty (not something you would specifically state if there are no issues) and Mirco publicly stated last year at the Totan 2.0 reveal there are ‘no issues’ with playfields.

Since you mention it, Totan 2.0, which was announced like something major for him, seems to have been completely abandoned for whatever reason like standing behind a product is not part of the business with no video whatsoever, no info shared no response on the « official thread »… I ended giving up on it even though I was interested, like some others. Who want to spend 2500 dollars on a kit there is absolutely no info and taking risk with this really famous customer support. Sounds now like it was a steal from what was a really cool homebrew project, I feel bad for the dev guy.

The way this is managed doesn’t make any sense.
A lot of people I know are now investigating reusing old playfield (reprint…) and do whatever it takes to avoid issues and nightmares and stress than buying from him.

How come in 2023, we lose so much quality comparing to almost 30 years ago.

I’ll be sending email of pictures today. I bought a funhouse PF through pinside from you. Will provide all details.

Pinside Shops order 190104200238

Here are some personal pictures - sure is amazing of all the PF produced how many examples one person has huh?

PPS your licensing right?

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A521F5B7-9459-4B6B-9E76-3B034F8CC957 (resized).jpeg

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Am I the only one who looks at these photos and hears “Players fault…” In the background?

It’s an entertaining and interesting discussion with the conclusion that the manufacturers and “the market” DGAF.

The three and a half pinsiders with a grudge as hot as a thousand suns refusing to give them business won’t make a dent in JJPMirco revenue and JJPMirco made it perfectly clear that they don’t have enough pride in their product to fix their defective designs.

Ill report back on the response - can assure you that a lot of attention was put towards the appropriate "tightness" at install. It develops over time as the game is played and I dont mean years I mean months.

I can understand your pain.

Reputations are restored through a relatively robust corrective action process. I get that some of the things are “trade secrets” and can’t be revealed publicly… but every attempt should be made for transparency. As a former quality manager I can tell you that the goal of the corrective action process is the *honestly* identify and correct the problem… not just filling the paperwork in order to get people off your back.

Also- there has to be a “pain index” for quality. I worked in sporting goods and a quality issue essentially meant just replacing the product (everyone was cool with that). I also worked with companies making critical parts for nuclear reactors (max pain index) … on those things the process had to be 100% bulletproof with multiple redundancy checks.make no mistake that level of quality has a cost.

For pinball parts… a bad plastic is in the “apologize and replace” where a 30-hr playfield swap part requires a much higher level of skill and scrutiny. Just using “robots” doesn’t necessarily provide that level of repeatability…. Do parameters change? Are the machines set up exactly the same… what about the raw materials?

If you do that… provide exceptional customer service during the occasional screw ups… and companies find that a vast majority of their customers root *for them to succeed*

Highclasspinball I just want you to know: I have 2 games that I was thinking about restoring with new playfields of yours. Due to this overflowing cesspool of legitimate complaints + my own horrible experiences with 1 of your playfields (a Quicksilver with chipping and pooling around posts that were never overtightened), I will never again buy anything from you until we ALL see marked change. My own QS was purchased supposedly “after” you changed your clearcoat process for the “Nth” time. We see your wordplay and are past empty promises! No one expects perfection; we do however expect honesty and to be treated fairly when there’s a problem.

I know you can ignore us—for now—but is there nothing within you that ponders: “there’s some legit ppl with legit problems and I seem to be the common denominator?”

That is heartbreaking. So sorry to see that. Please let us know how you go.

We only have one game with that and it just dissapoints me that it was not addressed. The owners fault JJP crap swore me off anything Mirco.

I think the solution we need is more suppliers that have the license to reproduce the same playfields.

Many users post ‘Mirco is the only supplier’, so he gets away with anything if its bad and you have no choice but to order there.
If there would be more suppliers that can make the same product, the bad one will eventually vanish or the supplier will improve the quality.
I think this is good for everybody.

Let's not forget this one....

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Which will cause nobody to step up ... already tried that ... the market is so small that splitting a title between multiple suppliers usually will not work as nobody wants to do all the work just to have your limited market split by someone else. It takes months to queue up any new title, usually a few months to get the artwork done, and then months to get the inserts and the milling done, and then weeks to run a small batch of playfields. Right now with the slew of new games, there is very low incentive to make repros of existing - making a new playfield does not have any comparisons to have to meet (exact artwork, exact colors, etc).

I expect the availability of repro playfields to get worse not better ... unfortunately as nobody is eager to take the risk or take the heat if they make a mistake. And pricing the playfields to cover any mistakes there doesn't seem to be room ... which is why we try to work with the ones who have gone thru the years of learning ...

What about other parts ?
Decals,aprons,plastic sets etc.
Those are hurting as bad or worse than playfields.

And yet all the Gottlieb reproduction products are exceptional…

You talk about not keeping a crook in business but most of you jump at JJPs shit where the ink chips off the PFs and he give out washers to put over the damage.

No one is interested in putting out products with issues, especially with the thin margins it's not worth the issues ... that being said I'm happy to hear regarding any product issues and always work with suppliers to improve. I've already sent some input to the PF mfg's that we use on some improvements that I would like to see, and had discussions with two of them, so there is some good that I hope will come ...

Anyways, as I said general complaints are not really actionable, many suppliers, many products, many timeframes - if there are specific items, certainly let us know via our helpdesk is best ...

Team PPS

Email sent to you PPS and Mirco per your instructions.

I know that no one wants to do anything poorly but there are lots of poor results with these parts for some reason. It’s a wide spectrum of parts that are increasingly of low standards.
I would gladly make real time videos of these products ,what’s wrong with them and where they fall short if it would be more helpful to highlight how bad things are right now. All in comparison to originals to be upfront and fair.
To me licensed suggest at or close to OEM standard. These are so far from it’s almost actionable or at the very least extremely deceptive.
This isn’t an attack on you Rick it is a wake up call in case you are unaware.
It’s hard to police everything I just want decent parts and to have faith in those gold stickers.

You can blame it on Mircoall day long and yes it is 100% his fault because his process is flowed somewhere. The ink doesn’t adhere to the wood and chips off. But if JJP would step up and stop accepting the flawed PFs it would stop I’m guessing a large % of Mirco’s work goes to JJP. It just shows that neither of them give a shot about their product or their customers let their shit rot in the warehouse and they might change their tactics

Got a response. Was told to order washers. Was told he was out of them otherwise would send to me. Wasn’t worth the time I took to take more pictures and write the email.

Wow just wow this is NOT a right fix and Rick says too email him but what's the point it's like emailing Mirco u get NO where ,we all here spend the money and get grap so I feel we should all stop buying and restore your old one your way better off at the end of the day

You mean he just sent that to you recently or this was an old email?

LOL.......get new washers

Speaking of washers, shouldn't it be a giant red flag for Rick that a mass produced game with Mirco playfields REQUIRED washers to keep the ink from lifting? But nah, problems are only one off sporadic things that happen only once in a while. I'm telling you guys, this ain't gonna go anywhere and nothing is going to change

Sent last night got the response today. At least I got a response. Asked me if I needed help ordering the washers. Rick is copied on it as well.

Lessons to be learned here- but Mirco- before installing a playfield get it re-cleared or a protector on it.

A good clearcoat job is expensive- often more than the playfield is to buy.

Let playfield cure- I have fair share of Mirco Playfields
TBL- had 4 years to cure- so it’s all good
D.I LE- perfect nothing wrong with it.
Wonka CE - nothing wrong with it, low play tho
GNR - swapped posts out for B/W ones - slight pooling after a few 1000 plays

AFM playfield - I have had a couple- first was in a refurb 9yrs ago- cracking clear almost straight away

AFM playfield bought with a game- on unwrapping the inserts all fuzzy- only way to get this playfield replaced was by striking a deal to buy another AFM playfield at the same time.

AFM playfield under my bed for 3yrs and looks amazing! But not installed yet.

Very hit & miss, but when you get a good one_ looks amazing

Not citing Mirco here specifically because I see this issue with other playfields as well.
Washers were never a big part of ground floor playfield assembly.
Originally they would only be used under certain ball guide spade post to keep the guide from digging into the actual wood when tightened.
Having to install them to basically pad and or shim every part from actually touching the playfield is not a rational nor reasonable solution.
It adds countless steps and time to playfield assembly that is not factored into what is already a tedious process.
In my opinion and experience adding washers to everything is only camouflaging or trying to avoid the issue not solving it.
We should be able to place post on playfields tighten them down without worry or concern just as we had been able to for several decades prior to.
If we cannot. Why not?
Are we being sold useable parts or just pretty pictures?
I spoke at length with Rick today at PPS.
He is definitely interested in addressing reasonable concerns.

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